The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

 

In some ways, the name Carson Wentz could be dropped into the space reserved for “insert Washington NFL quarterback here” and fit perfectly. He is being billed as a decided upgrade over the hodgepodge of players who have manned the position, a list that includes 25 starters this century. Win a (fake) prize for listing them all. Answers below.

 

 

None other than owner Daniel Snyder, in his first public comments since he re-christened his franchise as the Commanders, said last month, “We finally have ourselves a quarterback.” Whether he knows what a quality, stable, franchise-steadying signal caller looks like is up for debate because he has, to this point, only seen them in opposing jerseys. But he surely knows what one doesn’t look like because he has seen Tim Hasselbeck and Kyle Allen and John Beck and Case Keenum — to name just a few — start for his team.

There is a school of thought that Wentz will be neither a solution nor a savior here. He played last year in Indianapolis for a coach who once had him performing at an MVP level — Frank Reich was Philadelphia’s offensive coordinator in Wentz’s impressive but injury-shortened 2017 — and that franchise decided to punt on Wentz after a single season. It’s hard to marry that one-and-done failure with how he has been described by the Commanders’ brass.

 

“Stability,” General Manager Martin Mayhew said last week when asked what Wentz’s presence means. “You look at the last two seasons — I mean, playing eight quarterbacks over two seasons, he has stabilized that position for us. And we’re excited about what he brings to the table in terms of his physical talent and also what he brings to the table as a person, as a leader.”

 

Will we look back on that assessment as prescient? Before you answer, let’s play another little game. Match the following quotes to the Washington coach or executive who said them (and when):

 

1. “He has the charisma, he has the character, he has everything that you want in a quarterback. And that’s what they’re supposed to be: a face of the franchise.”

2. “You feel his experience. You feel his presence in the huddle. You feel his ability to retain information from a meeting and take it out to the practice field and apply it.”

3. “You talk about a guy not being experienced — I believe in the guys. I believe in ’em. And I’ve been doing this for a long time. And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play.”

 

4. “We do feel very confident and comfortable with the quarterbacks on our roster now.”

That would be, in order: Doug Williams on Alex Smith after Washington traded for the three-time Pro Bowl pick in 2018; offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell on Keenum before the 2019 season, which Washington started 0-5; Mike Shanahan on Rex Grossman and Beck before the 2011 season, which led to Washington drafting Robert Griffin III; and Mayhew before last season, which Washington went into with Ryan Fitzpatrick as the starter, a situation that lasted not even a half before Taylor Heinicke came on in relief. Heck, even Garrett Gilbert started a game last year.

That’s quite a salad of names and expectations, and reviewing all of those circumstances and characters from the past just reinforces the idea that prematurely declaring stability at quarterback in Washington is pure folly. Since 2000, this franchise has drafted four quarterbacks in the first round — Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin and Dwayne Haskins. It has traded for Smith, Donovan McNabb, Mark Brunell and Wentz. When you consider that the team has one playoff victory since the 2000 season, it’s fair to conclude that none of it has really worked.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Saving an absolute embarrassment of a season... Rivera will be back and likely extended. Unless he opts to move to the FO and help spearhead the search for a new HC. Which I think is more likely than him getting canned.

Yeah theres zero likelihood hes gone after this season unless the team utterly implodes and tunes him out. 

 

Im talking about how if they have another 7-8 win playoffless season how they can extend him. I can already imagine the crowds if they are 6-10 going into the dallas game. The fan base will be totally out on Ron at that point. An extension would be met with anger. People can talk about the culture all they want but ultimately the product on the field is the most important to fans. 3 of the same seasons will bring great questions on if Ron is the guy.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Yeah theres zero likelihood hes gone after this season unless the team utterly implodes and tunes him out. 

 

Im talking about how if they have another 7-8 win playoffless season how they can extend him. I can already imagine the crowds if they are 6-10 going into the dallas game. The fan base will be totally out on Ron at that point. An extension would be met with anger. People can talk about the culture all they want but ultimately the product on the field is the most important to fans. 3 of the same seasons will bring great questions on if Ron is the guy.

 

We extended Jay Gruden.

 

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They are still higher on the team than most of the national media who expect us to be bad.

 

Here is the Athletic staff's take

 

 

 

So we went 7-10 last season, have a much easier schedule this year and have a much better QB and we're in the hunt for the #1 overall pick?

[Zim489]

55 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We extended Jay Gruden.

 

 

Bruce with the "LOOK OVER HERE" move for the Scot fiasco. Plus at the time they looked to be heading to something better with a "franchise QB" and an actual winning record in his tenure. 

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So we went 7-10 last season, have a much easier schedule this year and have a much better QB and we're in the hunt for the #1 overall pick?

Theres zero chance were competing for the number 1 pick. Even the most extreme pessimist has them winning 5 games at worst. Some would say im pessimistic (I think im realistic) and I still have them winning at least 7 games in nearly every scenario. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Zim489

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Bruce with the "LOOK OVER HERE" move for the Scot fiasco. Plus at the time they looked to be heading to something better with a "franchise QB" and an actual winning record in his tenure. 

 

Snyder will be too worried about being on a yacht and staying away from the spotlight to come out of the woodwork and fire the one bright spot this organization has... 

 

He'll UPS him an extension just to avoid that backlash. 

[Zim489]

Going to be hard to avoid backlash if Fed ex is 90% Cowboy Fans of the 25k fans in attendance for Sonnys number retirement on the last day of the season with a 6-10 record 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Zim489

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Going to be hard to avoid backlash if Fed ex is 90% Cowboy Fans of the 25k fans in attendance for Sonnys number retirement on the last day of the season with a 6-10 record 

 

I think you underestimate the level of numbness by the majority of this fanbase at this point. 

[mudhog]

47 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Yeah theres zero likelihood hes gone after this season unless the team utterly implodes and tunes him out. 

 

Im talking about how if they have another 7-8 win playoffless season how they can extend him. I can already imagine the crowds if they are 6-10 going into the dallas game. The fan base will be totally out on Ron at that point. An extension would be met with anger. People can talk about the culture all they want but ultimately the product on the field is the most important to fans. 3 of the same seasons will bring great questions on if Ron is the guy.

I think it will be much easier than you think to extend RR even if we have a losing season. I, for one, wish him to be extended regardless. This is his first real QB since arriving in DC, so in my opinion it's year one. 

Before they stripped our name and legacy, most of the fanbase had checked out. The name change took most of the rest. The ones that are left are a mere shell of what this fanbase once was. It's not like there will be some fanbase uprising with pitchforks and torches if the team extends RR. There's nobody left to put enough pressure on the FO. And the ones that do still care, such as myself, are so damn jaded, that they will just stop watching once we get mathematically eliminated.

ES is a microcosm of the Redskin/Commander fanbase. Except for a few dozen great die-hard posters, this place is a graveyard compared to it's first 21yrs. Most fans have fled. But many who have stayed have changed their names and colors from burgundy and gold to the red and yellow of the typical commie flag, and become as sour as spoiled vinegar. 

RR will be here as long as HE wants to be here. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That’s quite a salad of names and expectations, and reviewing all of those circumstances and characters from the past just reinforces the idea that prematurely declaring stability at quarterback in Washington is pure folly. Since 2000, this franchise has drafted four quarterbacks in the first round — Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin and Dwayne Haskins. It has traded for Smith, Donovan McNabb, Mark Brunell and Wentz. When you consider that the team has one playoff victory since the 2000 season, it’s fair to conclude that none of it has really worked.

 

This sums it up well and in regards to Wentz being the savior, I'll believe it when I see it.  I've had the Commies pull the football out from under me one too many times to say that Wentz is the guy who solves the problem that's ailed this franchise for over 20 years.  

 

I believe Wentz is probably the most talented guy to play quarterback here since the late 90s but I still need to see it to believe it.  Everything this franchise has touched has turned to **** and it's not like Wentz is beyond reproach.  Add that up, you have a recipe for mediocrity at best.  Let's be real, this isn't a place where most players come to flourish.  This is a place where careers come to die.  

 

My expectation is that he'll be a middle of the pack QB which is enough to win some games and maybe back into a playoff berth but not a deep playoff run and certainly not a Super Bowl.  And while that's enough to make some people happy, it certainly won't squelch the quarterback controversy that's been here since the 90s.  To do that, you need a badass mother****er like Rodgers or Manning or Brees or Brady and I doubt we ever get a guy like that anytime soon. 

[mistertim]

I generally think Ron will be here for a while, but a lot of that will hinge on whether or not Snyder can get past his narcissism and realize that Ron is likely our last chance at legitimacy.

 

No other decent coaches are going to be willing to come here until it's clear that the culture has drastically changed and we're actually winning. That's especially true if Dan fires a super respected guy like Ron in a fit of pique.

 

Dan is hands down the worst owner in the NFL and everyone knows it. Coaches know it, GMs know it, players know it. The only chance of getting past that at this point is winning and Dan proving he can stay out of things.

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is literally the best thing Taylor Hienicke has done since he's been with the team.  This gets the VOR Slow Clap Award of the year.  This is a BALLER move and makes me like TH just a little more.  (Even though I never want to see him play again.)

 

 

[Zim489]

27 minutes ago, mudhog said:

, so in my opinion it's year one.

What an absolutely wild take considering it took him until year 3 to even find one and the guy had no choice to come here. 

27 minutes ago, mudhog said:

RR will be here as long as HE wants to be here. 

Than Welcome to the mediocrity pits of NFL purgatory. 

 

I get the sense here that most people place HC on more importance than QB. QB here changes everything. A great QB prospect entices everyone in the industry to join your organization just because of how much easier it makes the football portion of the job. Jacksonville is a craptastic job and got a SB winning HC to go there because of Trevor Lawrence.

 

QB is the single most important person in the organization. Over HC GM or Owner. Staying in the middle like Ron is setting us up for is the worst place to be. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Zim489

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is literally the best thing Taylor Hienicke has done since he's been with the team.  This gets the VOR Slow Clap Award of the year.  This is a BALLER move and makes me like TH just a little more.  (Even though I never want to see him play again.)

If his arm was as good as his personality, he would’ve been drafted.  His appearance on Bussin’ with the Boys was rather entertaining.  I could see him potentially carving out a space in the local media, a la Paulsen, Moss, etc.

Edited September 6, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[mudhog]

19 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

What an absolutely wild take considering it took him until year 3 to even find one and the guy had no choice to come here. 

Than Welcome to the mediocrity pits of NFL purgatory. 

 

I get the sense here that most people place HC on more importance than QB. QB here changes everything. A great QB prospect entices everyone in the industry to join your organization just because of how much easier it makes the football portion of the job. Jacksonville is a craptastic job and got a SB winning HC to go there because of Trevor Lawrence.

 

QB is the single most important person in the organization. Over HC GM or Owner. Staying in the middle like Ron is setting us up for is the worst place to be. 

I don't disagree with your edited portion in the least. In fact, you help make my point. Just recently on this board it was either VOR, KB or SIP who made the point about the chain of events which led to us getting Carson, instead of Tribbs, Mariota or any other scrubb QB. Without a decent QB, EVERYONE on the team is just biding time. And, because we did get Carson, we signed TMac and were able to draft for BPA instead of reaching for need at every pick. 

As far as the "mediocrity pits of NFL purgatory", at least purgatory is temporary. I'll take that rather than the HELL we've been boiled in for the last 30yrs.

[KDawg]

36 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

What an absolutely wild take considering it took him until year 3 to even find one and the guy had no choice to come here. 

Than Welcome to the mediocrity pits of NFL purgatory. 

 

I get the sense here that most people place HC on more importance than QB. QB here changes everything. A great QB prospect entices everyone in the industry to join your organization just because of how much easier it makes the football portion of the job. Jacksonville is a craptastic job and got a SB winning HC to go there because of Trevor Lawrence.

 

QB is the single most important person in the organization. Over HC GM or Owner. Staying in the middle like Ron is setting us up for is the worst place to be. 

 

Let me know when we have a shot at a high end QB prospect.

[DJD2]

43 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I generally think Ron will be here for a while, but a lot of that will hinge on whether or not Snyder can get past his narcissism and realize that Ron is likely our last chance at legitimacy.

 

I doubt he even recognizes it as a legitimacy issue. In his mind everything is legit, including him as an A+ owner. Everyone else is just wrong.

[Warhead36]

That list is a bit erronious because a lot of them were never actually considered franchise saviors or even legitimate long term options by most people. They were just guys who started because of injury or "hey, the season's over so why not" types.

 

The "saviors list" should be like: Ramsey, Campbell, McNabb, RG3, Cousins, Smith, Haskins(RIP), and now Wentz.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

The Ringer did some QB rankings. They have Geno Smith at #22. Carson Wentz was #27. For a QB that was a smidge better than NFL average last season, #27 seems odd.

 

https://qbrankings.theringer.com/

 

Matt Stafford was only 1 spot ahead of Matt Ryan? That also seems odd to me.

[Warhead36]

Geno Smith ain't even top 32 in a 32 team league. That list is a joke.

[Zim489]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Let me know when we have a shot at a high end QB prospect.

When ever Ron is gone. Cause with him here theyll never do a rebuild and continue to sit in that 500 territory that he had his teams in the last 5 years and we've been in for the last 20. 

19 minutes ago, mudhog said:

Without a decent QB, EVERYONE on the team is just biding time.

With a decent QB youre biding time. Just waiting until that guy is gone so you get a chance at an elite one. A decent one is the worst place a team can be. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

When ever Ron is gone. Cause with him here theyll never do a rebuild and continue to sit in that 500 territory that he had his teams in the last 5 years and we've been in for the last 20. 

We didn't get that opportunity with Jim Zorn as coach... So this is flawed logic. 

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We didn't get that opportunity with Jim Zorn as coach... So this is flawed logic. 

They had the 4th pick in 2010... They got lucky winning two OT games in 2010 late in the season. 

[HigSkin]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

So we went 7-10 last season, have a much easier schedule this year and have a much better QB and we're in the hunt for the #1 overall pick?

 

Agree.  Most of the national media are very down on this team.  They are running a segment on it right now on 106.7

 

A dude from PFF was on the radio this morning saying he thinks they have a shot, he said Heinicke was really bad last year and Wentz will be a big improvement.

29 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

 

I've made the same point.  Wentz is the league's punchline QB.

 

As as far as Ryan, I think I am the play it medium guy on him.  I am not down on him, where he's yawn to some on the board, Brunell Part 2, etc.  If Ryan is anywhere near his peak he'd have easily been the best QB we've had under Dan aside from 2012 RG3 IMO.    But the national media seems to now lump him in with Brady-Rodgers, etc -- that's ridiculous. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise