The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Or it's a reaction to having to scheme for 8 different QBs in 2 years. Let's not think Heinicke was the only QB on the roster that Turner's comment applies to.

I don’t know how else to put this, but basically, who cares? He’s the only one still here that it applies to. Even if he felt the same about Heinicke and Haskins and Montez, I only really care how it applies to Heinicke, and that’s what I was commenting on. I don’t need him to tell me the other guys were bad too, it’s self-evident lol. You just don’t usually see such honesty about players still in the building. 

[Warhead36]

I'm worried about the interior of the OL too but at the end of the day its not about having the most talented individuals, its about having five guys who mesh and a scheme that utilzes them the best. Most teams get by with average at best OL talent because they have five guys that work together and run a good system.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I do not see that as an indictment on Taylor at all. Everyone knows he is a backup. So you went from a solid backup who knows your system, and add a stating QB and high potential prospect. That makes your room much better. No slight to Taylor. I see that more as feeling good about who you added not trashing who is/was there. 

 

 

He basically said, out loud, ‘hey when you’re given chicken **** you try to make chicken salad but all you can do is make the most of it and do your job’. To me that is significant and what he said doesn’t leave much room for interpretation. But we’ll all approach it with our various biases and unique personal perspective, like with anything else we read. So maybe you’re correct.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t know how else to put this, but basically, who cares? He’s the only one still here that it applies to. Even if he felt the same about Heinicke and Haskins and Montez, I only really care how it applies to Heinicke, and that’s what I was commenting on. I don’t need him to tell me the other guys were bad too, it’s self-evident lol. You just don’t usually see such honesty about players still in the building. 

 

 

We've had 8 QBs in 2 years...Rivera and Co. have tried getting about 5 different established veteran QBs in 12 months instead of going with whoever was on the roster. They've been saying no QB on the team is good enough for 2 years now lol...

[philibusters]

32 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm worried about the interior of the OL too but at the end of the day its not about having the most talented individuals, its about having five guys who mesh and a scheme that utilzes them the best. Most teams get by with average at best OL talent because they have five guys that work together and run a good system.

 

I listen to some of the PFF podcasts.   And they have said, from a perspective of getting the most value from your money, you get more value improving a weak spot then turning an average spot into a strength.   WR's are a strong link unit as is the D-Line.  By contrast O-Line and secondary are weak link units.  And until you eliminate your weak links you are unlikely to get the value you expect by spending top dollar for one elite player.  Getting an elite corner or LT can be valuable but only if you have fixed the unit so it has no weak links.   So its better to have an O-Line with no stars and no weak links, then to have an O-line with Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff, that has positions that are really weak.  Its the opposite at say receiver.  If you have two really good receivers, as long as they are healthy, you are fine even if 3-6 are meh.  Whereas have 6 perfectly average starters where you are strong 3-6 but weak at 1-2 is sub optimal.

Edited July 26, 2022 by philibusters

[The Rook]

49 minutes ago, Conn said:

He basically said, out loud, ‘hey when you’re given chicken **** you try to make chicken salad but all you can do is make the most of it and do your job’. To me that is significant and what he said doesn’t leave much room for interpretation. But we’ll all approach it with our various biases and unique personal perspective, like with anything else we read. So maybe you’re correct.

 

Heck, I thought he was talking about every player he has worked with - including all QB's from Cam to Wentz. A general "You work with what you got." statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

I listen to some of the PFF podcasts. 

That's your first problem.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

Wentz should be no higher than 18.  He gets no benefit of the doubt for why he's ranked the way he is.  He has the talent to be a top 13 QB, but his perception right now in the eyes of the media and fans is someone that's lucky to be a Top 20 QB.  This season will either confirm the media's opinion of him, or redeem him.  This is also his last shot as a starting QB in the league.  With his Q rating in the gutter, he better not flop here in DC.  If he flops here, then he's done as a starting QB.  He'll strictly be a backup QB going forward.

I mean, except for the fact he was the 9th highest QBR last year, which would indicate he doesn't suck the way the Irsay Slime Machine has indicated.

 

The more I watch of the Colts, the more I think Reich (or whoever is calling the plays and setting the offense) is bad.  

 

Things I've noticed through my watching of games:

-  They rely very heavily on the run, and they are very predictable

-  A lot of passes are in high-pressure, known passing situations.  Because they run so much in "equal opportunity" situations.  And even though Jonathan Taylor is a beast, it still put them in a lot of 3rd downs where Wentz had to pass.

- I haven't looked at the numbers, but anecdotally, they ran A LOT on first and then again on second downs.  At least several times a game.

-  They would get into a pickle and then ask Wentz to bail them out in the hardest circumstance.

-  They rarely moved the pocket on their own.  Wentz dropped back to about the same spot on a vast majority of passes.

-  I don't remember a lot of creativity (maybe it was there) or even things like motions and jet sweeps, just aggravating stuff to keep the defense guessing a little bit.

-  They did not have a lot of down-field weapons. A lot of stuff got covered up quickly.

-  The offense felt a lot like a lot of the Commander's offenses of the last 4-5 years: Focus on the run, try to string together a 12 play drive, and pray on 3rd down.  For whatever it's worth, I HATE HATE HATE this type of offense because more things can go wrong than right and you end up giving yourself a lot of opportunities to make mistakes.

-   Wentz didn't play great in that Raiders game (second to last game of the season) but DAMN did the defense let them down, twice.  

 

It's really strange to say, but I think Reich just flat forgot what Wentz did well in 2017-2019, and based the entire offense around what he didn't do well in 2020.  In my opinion, that was colossally stupid. 

 

You have a QB who likes to stretch the field, is a very good deep ball thrower, also does well on quick game, so instead of using those attributes, you run the hell out of the ball and then try to get him to read out an entire defense on 3rd and medium-long with pressure in his face, and want him to take the check-down, then criticize him when he doesn't.  

 

I know Reich gets a lot of credit from all the outlets, but I gotta say, after watching more of the Colts game than I ever thought I would, he reminds me more of Jay Gruden than you would think.  And EVERYBODY knows my feelings about Jay.  

[Warhead36]

To say Wentz sucked last year is silly. He was up and down, which is the case for a lot of QBs outside of the top few. Even Mahomes had a bad stretch last year. Ditto Wilson. Not saying Wentz is as good as those two, just saying its common for QBs to be hot and cold. The problem with Wentz is that when he's cold he's iiiiice cold but still tries to play hero ball like he's Steve Young or something. 

 

I think Wentz fits what Turner wants in a QB. The big arm, the ability to go deep. He doesn't want to run the rinky dink offense we've been forced to run the last couple of years because of the limitations of our QBs(just look at that quote someone posted above). In that respect I actually think he'll be a better fit for us than he was with the Colts. We're not gonna be banking our entire offense on a RB(a stud RB mind you but still). We're gonna see a completely different offense this year. A lot more deep shots, a lot more verticality, none of this run run pass on 3rd and 8 non sense. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[illone]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's really strange to say, but I think Reich just flat forgot what Wentz did well in 2017-2019, and based the entire offense around what he didn't do well in 2020.  In my opinion, that was colossally stupid. 

 

You have a QB who likes to stretch the field, is a very good deep ball thrower, also does well on quick game, so instead of using those attributes, you run the hell out of the ball and then try to get him to read out an entire defense on 3rd and medium-long with pressure in his face, and want him to take the check-down, then criticize him when he doesn't.  

 

I know Reich gets a lot of credit from all the outlets, but I gotta say, after watching more of the Colts game than I ever thought I would, he reminds me more of Jay Gruden than you would think.  And EVERYBODY knows my feelings about Jay.  

 

 

Jay is a solid comparison to Reich.  Too smart for his own britches, thinks too highly of his own playcalling chops.

 

The one thing I will say about the Colts offense, I don't think they had the personnel to throw it a lot, plus they were so enamored by the RB they literally felt like he could score every time he touched the ball.  Not sure if you watched HBO Hark Knocks yet...

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait for all the smarmy sports writers to start harping on how this is all proof that Wentz is fragile and immature.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Mrshadow008]

19 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

The flip side is, at least Kyler's bad game was against a playoff-level team, as where Wentz' was against the worst team in the league lol...

Counter Point. Kyler and the Cards lost 8 of their last 10. Including losses to Wentz and the Colts who were missing half their team due to Covid and an 18 point loss to the Lions. 

[Chris 44]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Im sure there is a better way to describe it but Wentz has a powerful throwing motion. Not use to to seeing that.

[Tundra scout]

1 hour ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Counter Point. Kyler and the Cards lost 8 of their last 10. Including losses to Wentz and the Colts who were missing half their team due to Covid and an 18 point loss to the Lions. 

Not to mention the Jags did beat Buffalo also and the Colts haven’t beat the Jags in Jacksonville since 2014 

[redskinss]

20 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im sure there is a better way to describe it but Wentz has a powerful throwing motion. Not use to to seeing that.

Funny you should say this, yesterday when I was watching this video I thought even though its not the end all be all to a quarterbacks ability it is very nice to finally have one that has every single physical trait you're looking for.

He's tall, strong, stands tall in the pocket, has excellent mechanics. 

When you watch him throw he just looks like an elite quarterback. 

We haven't had that in a very long time.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Funny you should say this, yesterday when I was watching this video I thought even though its not the end all be all to a quarterbacks ability it is very nice to finally have one that has every single physical trait you're looking for.

He's tall, strong, stands tall in the pocket, has excellent mechanics. 

When you watch him throw he just looks like an elite quarterback. 

We haven't had that in a very long time.

Thats a much better way of describing it than what I used. Lol

[Cooleyfan1993]

So…..has he thrown a TC TD yet? If not, cut his ***  

[redskinss]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10043197-colts-said-they-would-prefer-anyone-over-carson-wentz-in-trade-talks-says-nfl-exec

 

The fact that this smear campaign is continuing into training camp is staggering to me.

You'd think wentz was not only the worst quarterback ever to strap on cleats but also the biggest asshole.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest either.

He may not be the best teammate or the best quarterback but he's also taken the high road this whole time which gives me even more reason to believe he's not the one with the real problem.

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10043197-colts-said-they-would-prefer-anyone-over-carson-wentz-in-trade-talks-says-nfl-exec

 

The fact that this smear campaign is continuing into training camp is staggering to me.

You'd think wentz was not only the worst quarterback ever to strap on cleats but also the biggest asshole.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest either.

He may not be the best teammate or the best quarterback but he's also taken the high road this whole time which gives me even more reason to believe he's not the one with the real problem.

 

Pretty sure this exec's point was a summation of the idea that the fact that they traded away their QB w/o a viable option to replace him indicated they would take anyone else over him.

[Tundra scout]

12 minutes ago, redskinss said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10043197-colts-said-they-would-prefer-anyone-over-carson-wentz-in-trade-talks-says-nfl-exec

 

The fact that this smear campaign is continuing into training camp is staggering to me.

You'd think wentz was not only the worst quarterback ever to strap on cleats but also the biggest asshole.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest either.

He may not be the best teammate or the best quarterback but he's also taken the high road this whole time which gives me even more reason to believe he's not the one with the real problem.

Aside from wanting to beat the Eagles twice, I so want Wentz and company to go into Indy and come out with a demanding win. F you Isray 

[redskinss]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Pretty sure this exec's point was a summation of the idea that the fact that they traded away their QB w/o a viable option to replace him indicated they would take anyone else over him.

Except that it says several times "colts said" or "they were telling us"

Thus isn't just the writers opinion.

Like I said, smear campaign.

If wentz was half as bad as they're trying to convince us he is they wouldn't have to say a damn word, his resume would speak for itself. 

[FootballZombie]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Except that it says several times "colts said" or "they were telling us"

Thus isn't just the writers opinion.

Like I said, smear campaign.

If wentz was half as bad as they're trying to convince us he is they wouldn't have to say a damn word, his resume would speak for itself. 

 

Yeah, the exec directly expressed the Colt's willingness to move on w/o another backup option.

 

We saw this a couple days ago from SIP's post a couple pages back:

 

The exec is saying that when provided a choice between Wentz and the mystery box, they chose the box. They did not trade Wentz for another QB, they just chose to move on. The exec further cited the idea that they went from having Wentz to having absolutely nothing at QB after the trade. This is an extrapolation of the idea that they were willing to take anyone over Wentz based on what happened.

Edited July 27, 2022 by FootballZombie

[illone]

13 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Except that it says several times "colts said" or "they were telling us"

Thus isn't just the writers opinion.

Like I said, smear campaign.

If wentz was half as bad as they're trying to convince us he is they wouldn't have to say a damn word, his resume would speak for itself. 

 

 

There is more to this story than just the Jags game.  Irsay was pissed about him earlier in the year, too.  I think it kinda started with the Anti-Vax stuff...

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/25/jim-irsay-has-a-possible-message-for-his-unvaccinated-players/