The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

The Eagles play the Vikings in week two, not the Jags. Jacksonville comes to town week four. 

 

2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Wow. Guess @Voice_of_Reason really DID need coffee today  

 

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

He probably grabbed the Kalhua and bailey's by accident instead of his coffee.

Ok, I take full responsibility for writing this and not checking, but this was actually a point made on JP's pod months ago and I remembered it, and then just regurgitated it.  And both JP and Mitch made a point of it because they said most likely, we go into the week 3 game with the Eagles both at 2-0. They like did half a segment on it.  I think it was on one of the schedule related pods. 

 

The Eagles getting the Vikings in week two, that's a MUCH harder matchup, and there is a reasonable chance we're 2-0, and they are 1-1.  (I think the Eagles are somewhat overrated and the Vikings underrated.  I'm actually looking forward to that game now.

 

I really should have checked their work on that one, I just figured they could read a schedule. 

 

Teaches me to trust anything from the damn media. 

 

🤬

Edited July 29, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[kingdaddy]

14 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

Be careful what you wish for.  I kind of agree with Clark.  There hasn't been a repeat winner in the NFC East since 2004.  I don't think the Cowboys replicate what they did last year, and they take a step back.  I think we finish 2nd behind the Eagles.  I can see the Eagles winning 12+ games if Hurts improves to be a good QB.  They're ceiling is higher than ours, because they're a more talented team.  Our ceiling is 10 wins, which should be good enough to get a WC.  That Philly offense is loaded.  If Hurts can simply take a leap forward, they're gonna win this division with ease.  He's the only question mark on that team currently.  The scary thing is that they're playing with house money at the QB position.  If Hurts doesn't work out, they can easily use one of their 3 1st round picks next year to either move up in a great QB draft class, or they can offer the world to trade for a franchise QB.  They're sitting pretty right now.

 

I wouldn't drag Hurts if I was a Commanders fan either.  His two best games last year came against us.  Mobile QB's are our kryptonite.  Always have been.  Our defense didn't suddenly get better this offseason to handle mobile QB's, so Hurts should continue to feast playing us next year.

However, the Bucs d coordinator completely exposed Hurts in the playoff game they played in Tampa. This is what other defenses will do to him moving forward, try and confuse him with pre-snap looks disguised as something else. Make him a passer. I don't think the Eagles even know what they have in Hurts...he's on the hot seat this year for sure.

[Conn]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Howell sounds legit. Be pretty cool if we had our next QB on the roster.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Howell sounds legit. Be pretty cool if we had our next QB on the roster.

I figure at a minimum he should be a good backup. 

 

It's interesting to me in a good way to see how thin he looks.  He was a big bulky in college.  Does that help his speed some?  Some wondered (me included) whether his scrambiling would translate to the NFL because he didn't come off that fast when he ran in college even though he put up plenty of yards. 

 

But to make it in the NFL at 6 foot, i think you need some mobility.  Not too many 6 foot and under QBs who thrive without being able to run, Drew Brees being the unicorn on that front. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

Howell out there trying to prove that Madden arm strength rating. He is fid'na put holes in receivers chests.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think we’re going to see a lot of Howell in preseason.

 

I wonder if Ron has the guts to do to TH what Shanahan did to Grossman.  Grossman started essentially the entire 2011 season, he had worked with Kyle before in Houston.  Similar to TH and Turner. 
 

But he was beat out in camp by Cousins for the backup job and Mike didn’t hesitate to make Cousins the backup. And it’s the first time I ever remember a rookie backing up a rookie. 
 

We’re miles away from it, but I kindof wonder if Ron would be willing to bump Howell up under almost any circumstance. 
 

I hope he would.  I hope there is a legitimate competition and let the best man win.  But I think TH might be like Ron and Scott’s binky.  Because he knows the offense he might make them more comfortable. 

[Est.1974]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think we’re going to see a lot of Howell in preseason.

 

I wonder if Ron has the guts to do to TH what Shanahan did to Grossman.  Grossman started essentially the entire 2011 season, he had worked with Kyle before in Houston.  Similar to TH and Turner. 
 

But he was beat out in camp by Cousins for the backup job and Mike didn’t hesitate to make Cousins the backup. And it’s the first time I ever remember a rookie backing up a rookie. 
 

We’re miles away from it, but I kindof wonder if Ron would be willing to bump Howell up under almost any circumstance. 
 

I hope he would.  I hope there is a legitimate competition and let the best man win.  But I think TH might be like Ron and Scott’s binky.  Because he knows the offense he might make them more comfortable. 

We should be going Wentz #1 and Howell #2 this season. Why else both trade for and draft a QB. Time to move forward.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

We should be going Wentz #1 and Howell #2 this season. Why else both trade for and draft a QB. Time to move forward.

Well, I’m not sure it’s as straightforward as saying we drafted him, so he should be the #2.  Of course, I’m also not saying he shouldn’t be.  Two interesting things I learned this offseason - 1) this is a fairly complicated offense to learn, and 2) the qb doesn’t handle protections.  Can’t recall where I heard each, but it was a reputable source for both.  So it could go both ways for Howell, and his reputation for preparation is certainly a mark in his favor.  

Gonna be interesting to see it play out.  And maybe it’s putting the cart before the horse, but I’m even more interested to see what happens if he starts challenging Wentz in 2023 or 2024.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[BigDibbs31]

Sam Howell at one point was a projected top 5 pick. He has the arm and legs to be a good QB at the NFL level. He was in a bad situation at UNC with questionable coaching. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Well, I’m not sure it’s as straightforward as saying we drafted him, so he should be the #2.  Of course, I’m also not saying he shouldn’t be.  Two interesting things I learned this offseason - 1) this is a fairly complicated offense to learn, and 2) the qb doesn’t handle protections.  Can’t recall where I heard each, but it was a reputable source for both.  So it could go both ways for Howell, and his reputation for preparation is certainly a mark in his favor.  

Gonna be interesting to see it play out.  And maybe it’s putting the cart before the horse, but I’m even more interested to see what happens if he starts challenging Wentz in 2023 or 2024.

For a long time, Norv's offense was famous for having the Center call the protections and line blocking, and no audibles. 

 

The premise was (and I heard this FROM Norv in an interview he did when he was Cowboys OC, before he even came here, he was on SportsCenter or something) each play was designed to work against just about every defense, and if the QB read the play correctly, there was really no need to audible.  I thought that sounded really pompous, then Troy came on and said it was a blessing because all he had to do was run the play and not worry about anything else.  And, hell, that guy's in the HOF (and at the time was probably already a multiple SB winner), so what do I know. 

 

Aikman called it a "QB Friendly System" because once you figured it out, you just had to "run it."  There wasn't a lot of thinking.  And by taking the line calls off the QB's pre-snap plate, it allowed him to focus entirely on the route concepts and secondary.  

 

Norv might be the best pure OC of the last 30 years.  If not the best, in the top 3 for sure.  You could argue he should go to the HOF as an OC.  

 

Now, I'm sure things have changed since I heard that interview in probably 1993 or 1994, but I think a lot of the same premises exist.  The offense is predicated on making the right reads within the play rather than checking out of a play into another "better" play.  I'm sure, though, with evolution, there is some "check with me" stuff, read option, etc.

 

But I think the building blocks are basically still the same, at least from what I understand.

 

Which is why it's tough to pick up, in a way.  If you're not checking into an "easier" play, you've got to read the play out.  Every play is designed to get somebody open, you've just got to find the somebody.  

 

When it works, it's basically unstoppable.  If you have a QB that can't find the "right" read, you either get a ton of check downs, or a lot of INTs.

 

EDIT: I just remembered, when Norv got here, he received some criticism for not having audibles in the offense.  Like "If you know they are blitzing, why can't the QB check out of the play?"

 

And in typical Norv fashion, he basically mumbled something incoherent and that was that.  

 

Then Brad Johnson showed up, the first real, true QB he had in Washington (minus maybe a few games of a very young Trent Green), and magically, the "No Audibles" criticism went away.  Why?  Because a good QB can read the play out and run the offense, and it's not an issue.  Bad QBs can't.

So, the end of the lesson (which is obvious) is that it's better to have a good QB.  

Edited July 30, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[RandyHolt]

Thanks for sharing the Norvous info.  I liked Brad Johnson here. IIRC he had a monster year playoffs and 4K yards.  Last I remember was him trying to make something out of nothing on the botched FG.

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

We should be going Wentz #1 and Howell #2 this season. Why else both trade for and draft a QB. Time to move forward.

 

The only problem with that is Ron told Wentz on draft day he is selecting a QB as a project. TH is here until end of 22. He will be the #2. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

The only problem with that is Ron told Wentz on draft day he is selecting a QB as a project. TH is here until end of 22. He will be the #2. 

If Howell out performs TH and it’s clear he is the better backup option, I think he gets the backup job.  
 

If that threatens Wentz, he’s the wrong guy.

 

Ron isn’t going to put a QB as the #2 who is one snap away from playing who he doesn’t feel like gives the team the best shot to win.  If Howell beats out TH, he will be the backup.

 

Thats a big if.  
 

There is one long shot theory which could really work against TH: If they have to inactivate Young and Thomas in week 1, but both are in the active roster, there is going to be a numbers crunch. And having a 3rd QB might be a luxury they can’t afford.

 

Now, Chase could go to IR or stay on PUP, Thomas could play, so who knows.  
 

But IF they needed a roster spot, and they are going to release a QB to make room, it would be TH.

 

I find that scenario highly, highly, highly unlikely.  And I like TH as a guy on the team this year.

 

He can’t be on the team next year.  Howell has to win the backup job and they have to draft another cheap guy as a developmental guy.  

[kingdaddy]

29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If Howell out performs TH and it’s clear he is the better backup option, I think he gets the backup job.  
 

If that threatens Wentz, he’s the wrong guy.

 

Ron isn’t going to put a QB as the #2 who is one snap away from playing who he doesn’t feel like gives the team the best shot to win.  If Howell beats out TH, he will be the backup.

 

Thats a big if.  
 

There is one long shot theory which could really work against TH: If they have to inactivate Young and Thomas in week 1, but both are in the active roster, there is going to be a numbers crunch. And having a 3rd QB might be a luxury they can’t afford.

 

Now, Chase could go to IR or stay on PUP, Thomas could play, so who knows.  
 

But IF they needed a roster spot, and they are going to release a QB to make room, it would be TH.

 

I find that scenario highly, highly, highly unlikely.  And I like TH as a guy on the team this year.

 

He can’t be on the team next year.  Howell has to win the backup job and they have to draft another cheap guy as a developmental guy.  

More likely they would trade TH before cutting him. He is ranked as one of the better backup QB's in the league. That being said, it's day 2 of camp, clearly the organization hopes Howell will play out to be a factor in the future but RR needs to win this year and he knows he can win with TH if the roster is healthy. Lets see how things go in the preseason games before cutting TH and declaring Howell the #2, games are way different than practices.  

[zCommander]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If that threatens Wentz, he’s the wrong guy.

 

Ron doesn't want what the Eagles did when they drafted Hurts. Ron has told Wentz they wanted him. Ron is not going to go back on his words. Wentz even said Ron has made him feel wanted. We carried 3 QBs last year too. Plus TH knows Turners offense and if Wentz is out they know they can win with TH for a game or two. You only get 17 chances to finish the season and if getting into the playoffs matters then you go with the sure bet, if needed of course. TH has played in a playoff game. Howell hasn't. 

 

14 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

More likely they would trade TH before cutting him. He is ranked as one of the better backup QB's in the league. That being said, it's day 2 of camp, clearly the organization hopes Howell will play out to be a factor in the future but RR needs to win this year and he knows he can win with TH if the roster is healthy. Lets see how things go in the preseason games before cutting TH and declaring Howell the #2, games are way different than practices.  

 

TH has been in Turner's offense too long. He might not be a valuable trade at all. 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ron doesn't want what the Eagles did when they drafted Hurts. Ron has told Wentz they wanted him. Ron is not going to go back on his words. Wentz even said Ron has made him feel wanted. We carried 3 QBs last year too. Plus TH knows Turners offense and if Wentz is out they know they can win with TH for a game or two. You only get 17 chances to finish the season and if getting into the playoffs matters then you go with the sure bet, if needed of course. TH has played in a playoff game. Howell hasn't. 

I'm sure Howell could lose a playoff games as well as Heinicke did.

[KDawg]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Howell sounds legit. Be pretty cool if we had our next QB on the roster.

Indeed he is. I tried to tell everyone. But “ohhh, there’s KD liking another QB: Justin Fields, Shane Buechele… he’s obviously 2/2 and due to be wrong so Howell is doomed…”

 

WRONG. Howell is QB1. You just don’t know it yet.

Edited July 30, 2022 by KDawg

[RandyHolt]

Whoa whoa whoa lets pump the break.... dancing hype up

Edited July 30, 2022 by RandyHolt

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

Whoa whoa whoa lets pump the break.... dancing hype up

No. QB1. Next year we bring in Buechele to be QB3. Will allow Wentz the 2 spot.

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Thanks for sharing the Norvous info. 

 

Does Danny Boy make the ladies feel Norvous?

 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm sure Howell could lose a playoff games as well as Heinicke did.

 

Howell has to be #2 first to lose in a playoff game.

 

Are we really that butt hurt about TH that we rather see a rookie QB be named #2 because that means TH won't be #2. Does the team come first or the fan's feelings are more important now?

 

I highly doubt Howell will know Turner's offense like TH does. The edge here goes to TH.