The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Silvernon]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't think our roster is that bad. 

 

In fact, I think our roster is ready for the big time...

 

Biggest hole is QB. Second biggest is a high end receiver to pair with McLaurin.

 

MLB, FS are needs but with a great QB those needs get negated a bit.

 

We need a work horse RB to let us use Gibson in a more conducive role, but again, high end QB and receiver negate that need.

I agree with the first two. 

 

They can get by with McCain at FS, but they need a MLB on D. It's almost as bad as the QB hole on O, and completely changes the unit. 

 

I do think they need a bruiser for short-yardage/goal line, but the ideal would be a FB. I love the growth of Gibson. I'm with Baldy that he's a young stud with fumblitis. 

[Warhead36]

Bengals have talent sure but Burrow is the straw that stirs the drink. Its like when the Bucs went from 7-9 to Super Bowl champs with Brady. You need the QB to put you in that position but often times in the playoffs its other guys that win you the ring.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Silvernon said:

I agree with the first two. 

 

They can get by with McCain at FS, but they need a MLB on D. It's almost as bad as the QB hole on O, and completely changes the unit. 

 

I do think they need a bruiser for short-yardage/goal line, but the ideal would be a FB. I love the growth of Gibson. I'm with Baldy that he's a young stud with fumblitis. 

You're talking to the guy who has championed backer for years.

 

And if we don't get a high end QB and a new receiving weapon... I am in total agreement. The defense will need to be significantly better talent wise without the high end offensive talent.

 

If we do, though, those needs are naturally negated by the fact we can potentially play with a lead. Everything is symbiotic. This is no different. 

[Est.1974]

Totally in agreement that we need another receiving weapon. Quite a few options in free agency, even at TE which I would personally look to upgrade in terms of receiving capability. 
 

But my God, Trubisky/Mariota etc are going to be one hell of a letdown to me at this stage. I would rather go all in by moving up the draft aggressively for our QB #1 on the board.

 

Although these things all need to dovetail as well be very unappealing in free agency with no decent QB on the roster. We would more than likely have to do an early trade up in the draft.

[mhd24]

25 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Totally in agreement that we need another receiving weapon. Quite a few options in free agency, even at TE which I would personally look to upgrade in terms of receiving capability. 
 

But my God, Trubisky/Mariota etc are going to be one hell of a letdown to me at this stage. I would rather go all in by moving up the draft aggressively for our QB #1 on the board.

 

Although these things all need to dovetail as well be very unappealing in free agency with no decent QB on the roster. We would more than likely have to do an early trade up in the draft.

As a bridge, I'd much rather have Mariotta (and to a lesser extent Tribiski) than trade for Jimmy G.  I still want to draft a QB at 11 (Pickett being my clear preferred choice).  Otherwise, I'd be content taking a stud at 11 (Wilson, Lloyd, Stingley, Gardner) and trading up for Howell, Strong, or Corall.

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

As a bridge, I'd much rather have Mariotta (and to a lesser extent Tribiski) than trade for Jimmy G.  I still want to draft a QB at 11 (Pickett being my clear preferred choice).  Otherwise, I'd be content taking a stud at 11 (Wilson, Lloyd, Stingley, Gardner) and trading up for Howell, Strong, or Corall.

I’d certainly take Mariota or Trubisky over Jimmy G too.

 

I’m probably felling more negative about the outlook at time progresses. We really are backed into a corner. Aside from some out of nowhere move that we don’t foresee, this is a difficult situation for Ron to put right.

Edited January 31, 2022 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[London Kev]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't think our roster is that bad. 

 

In fact, I think our roster is ready for the big time...

 

Biggest hole is QB. Second biggest is a high end receiver to pair with McLaurin.

 

MLB, FS are needs but with a great QB those needs get negated a bit.

 

We need a work horse RB to let us use Gibson in a more conducive role, but again, high end QB and receiver negate that need.

 

I agree with this almost completely, but with just a slight difference in positional need order.

Obviously the number one need is QB. Next for me would be MLB just ahead of FS, and finally RB just ahead of WR.

 

For QB I hope that we either go all-out and trade for Wilson, or go the bridge/1st round draft pick route.

 

How we acquire the QB affects the resources available to target the other positions, but I hope we can get a MLB and FS in FA, but also draft one of each. I would address RB and WR in the draft.

 

I seem to rate Curtis Samuel more than most and think that he will be a solid #2 receiver. Health has obviously been an issue this year but he had increased his production every year leading up to 2021, and I see no reason why he can't have a really good 2022.

I like Hump in the slot, and while Dyami Brown was disappointing, his main asset is speed and Heinicke just didn't have the arm to take advantage of this. I think if he can just clean up his catching then he can be a real asset.

 

TL/DR: We need to get a decent ****ing Quarterback.

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The value of QB didn't change because of yesterday.  It's always been highly valued.  And what I saw yesterday was that Jimmy G just nearly took a loaded roster to the SB for a second time, a WR was the best player on the field for both teams in the NFC championship, and decisive plays in both conference championship games were made by defensive linemen at the end of regulation--Donald's pressure leading to the pick and Hubbard's sack fumble leading to the Chiefs having to settle for a field goal to force OT instead of scoring to win in regulation.  Mahomes is the best and most valuable QB of his generation and he had a bad game and his team lost to a less seasoned and less talented opponent.

 

The Bengals also aren't just Joe Burrow and some guys.  They are basically only weak on the OL.  They've got a stacked DL, a really good secondary, a really good linebacker in Wilson, and one of the best wr/rb groups in the league.  They are loaded with talent, they're just inexperienced and unheralded.  They didn't magically get good just by picking Burrow #1.  They hit a ton of home runs with day two and three picks and free agency signings and, this is important to a fast turnaround, they kept most of their extant good players during the regime change.  They got their leader in Burrow, but they built a good team around him too.

 

The reason we're still scuffling isn't just that we haven't found a QB, but also because we made a lot of bad moves and had two fairly weak drafts.  Bad FA decisions, horrible trades, and too many Antonio Gandy-Goldens and Dyami Browns in the draft instead of Tyler Boyds and Tee Higgins.

 

Getting a great QB or prospect will help, but we need to build a better roster too.  When is the last time we had a pro bowler come from outside of a first round pick?  When is the last time we had a draft class that produced more than one or two good players?  These are barriers to competitiveness that drafting a great QB won't solve.

I dont think anyone is arguing that we dont need a great team but more that nothing else really matters until you get that great QB. 

[wit33]

14 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

A top 10 QB will always give you a chance to win a Superbowl but this is a year to year league. Injuries, tough schedule, playoff upsets can get stacked against you. No guarantees of anything.

Mahomes, Brady, and Rodgers are different than the rest of the so called elite. The other “elites” Wilson, Watson, Jackson, and Allen have not proven to provide legit opportunities to win the SB each year. Burrow is coming. 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We already know that's not true.  Rivera in an interview, in one of his Sheehan appearances, strongly suggested they'd have taken Burrow but explained why not Herbert and Tua.  Keim has said multiple times including recently they'd have taken Burrow, they loved him.  

 

Kyle Shanny by some is considered the best play caller in the game.  His "scheme" IMO wasn't why Stafford outplayed Jimmy G IMO.  Stafford is distinctly the better player, its not really that close.  Among other things, Stafford has one of the top 5 strongest arms in the league, Jimmy G has one of the weakest.  

The same can be said for Mccvay, in regards to play calling. As you know, not long ago Goff made it to the SB. The system is strong in Rams country. One of the few coaches that actually provides elite QB type impact on the win/loss totals. 

 

1 hour ago, method man said:

I agree we don’t have a lot of holes. The issue is that I feel we still lack the high end All Pro caliber talent other teams have. Allen is already one of the best in the league at his position and I think McLaurin, Curl, Cosmi, and Young can do the same but not sure who else

The roster is strong. Just need a QB and Bobby Wagner . SB bound. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by wit33

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I agree we don’t have a lot of holes. The issue is that I feel we still lack the high end All Pro caliber talent other teams have. Allen is already one of the best in the league at his position and I think McLaurin, Curl, Cosmi, and Young can do the same but not sure who else

This is also an issue. The depth is there. The talent isnt. Terry and Allen are really the only people we have that are within the top 5-10 of their position.

[Redskins 2021]

After FA this should be a 10 win team.

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

After FA this should be a 10 win team.

Lol, let's wait until we see who we get first. Every year we win the offseason and then disappoint. We still have no idea who our QB is going to be. 

[skinny21]

Going against the grain here a bit, but I kind of feel like, after qb, our 2 biggest needs are oline/corner depth.  

Oline because we need to keep our new qb upright, give them time to throw, and due to the impact they have on the ground game (which of course impacts the qb).  
Corner depth because if we have poor play back there, it minimizes one of our bigger strengths (dline) and can put more pressure on a qb (dealing with shootout situations).  
 

With that said, I do agree of course that our weakest links (aside from qb) are MLB, FS, #2 WR, and we could really stand to add a talented (workhorse type) back.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don't think our roster is that bad. 

 

In fact, I think our roster is ready for the big time...

 

Biggest hole is QB. Second biggest is a high end receiver to pair with McLaurin.

 

MLB, FS are needs but with a great QB those needs get negated a bit.

 

We need a work horse RB to let us use Gibson in a more conducive role, but again, high end QB and receiver negate that need.

 

Agree.  that was part of Garafolo's point for why Wilson should consider coming here, the roster here is decent.  We beat Cincy in Burrow's rookie year and the turning point was when Burrow got hurt. 

 

Cincy was 2-14 just 2 years ago.  They got a decent roster but nothing special.  Good WRs but they also break supposedly the cardnal sin as for developing a roster which is having a meh O line.  Heck the Giants whole mantra from Schoen and company now is hey of course we weren't good because we didn't have a good O line.  Cincys defense is decent but nothing crazy. 

 

Forgot which reporter said it but I heard more than one say insiders don't think much of Zac Taylor as a coach.  Cincy if I recall spends less on scouting than any other team.  The owner is considered super cheap.  Some would say a poorly run organization.

 

Yet they draft Burrow and everyhing changes.  Standig IMO said it well on his podcast today, to paraphrase him, it was no secret that Qbs win but the environment on that today has much more of an emphasis than its been in the past.  He talked about that in the context of whether McDaniels dumps Carr like he did years back to Cutler.

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/former-nfl-executive-zac-taylor-not-qualified-to-be-head-coach-of-the-bengals

 

 

Former NFL Executive: Zac Taylor 'Not Qualified to be Head Coach' of the Bengals

The 38-year-old has posted a 6-25-1 record in two seasons.

 

 

https://stripehype.com/2021/10/16/zac-taylor-torn-to-shreds-pff/

 

 

Zac Taylor gets torn to shreds in latest writeup from PFF

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

6 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

This is also an issue. The depth is there. The talent isnt. Terry and Allen are really the only people we have that are within the top 5-10 of their position.

 

 

Top 5 is much different than top 10. Logan Thomas (top 10), Mckissic (in his 3rd down role), Landon Collins as a money backer, Scherff (top 5), Chase R (top 10). Kam Curl is a beast, but don’t have the ability to compare to others. 

 

The Oline and DLine are top 10 units at least and arguments can be made for top 5. How would you rate that in terms of talent evaluation?

 

 

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Going against the grain here a bit, but I kind of feel like, after qb, our 2 biggest needs are oline/corner depth.  

Oline because we need to keep our new qb upright, give them time to throw, and due to the impact they have on the ground game (which of course impacts the qb).  
Corner depth because if we have poor play back there, it minimizes one of our bigger strengths (dline) and can put more pressure on a qb (dealing with shootout situations).  
 

With that said, I do agree of course that our weakest links (aside from qb) are MLB, FS, #2 WR, and we could really stand to add a talented (workhorse type) back.  

I don’t think anyone would ever disagree with adding more talented depth to the OL and secondary. Especially CB. Always position groups that should be refreshed every offseason however you can, even if you have other priorities, because you can never have enough. I think people are more talking about big money acquisitions or draft picks in rounds 1-3 for the bigger priorities (MLB, FS, WR, RB), but money and draft resources should always go to the OL and secondary, agreed. 
 

The OL mostly performed extremely well this season, even when our depth was severely tested. So for OL I think it’s more about keeping talent in the pipeline and doing maintenance. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by ConnSKINS26

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The same can be said for Mccvay, in regards to play calling. As you know, not long ago Goff made it to the SB. The system is strong in Rams country. One of the few coaches that actually provides elite QB type impact on the win/loss totals. 

 

 

If the dig was at McVay's play calling instead of Shanny, then I'd have defended McVay.  

 

Interesting also that McVay dumped Goff.  Apparently Kyle ditto with Jimmy G coming soon.   Also after Dilfer won that SB eons ago, he was gone the next year.  Foles gone soon after.

 

Teams that hit that outlier way of making a SB clearly don't rejoice and think its a sustainable model.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

I agree with the first two. 

 

They can get by with McCain at FS, but they need a MLB on D. It's almost as bad as the QB hole on O, and completely changes the unit. 

 

I do think they need a bruiser for short-yardage/goal line, but the ideal would be a FB. I love the growth of Gibson. I'm with Baldy that he's a young stud with fumblitis. 

MLB or at least an athletic, disruptive LB that gives opposing QB's another player to watch out for. If we can improve our LB play our D-line will be hell to deal with.

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Top 5 is much different than top 10. Logan Thomas (top 10), Mckissic (in his 3rd down role), Landon Collins as a money backer, Scherff (top 5), Chase R (top 10). Kam Curl is a beast, but don’t have the ability to compare to others. 

 

The Oline and DLine are top 10 units at least and arguments can be made for top 5. How would you rate that in terms of talent evaluation?

 

 

Logan is coming off an ACL at age 31. We'll see if he gets to his level.
JD is a nice piece. 

Landon is arguably the worst valued contract on defense in the league

Scherff wont be here and misses 1/3rd of his games.

Agree on Chase

I like Kam a lot and he might be top 10 but not sure.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If the dig was at McVay's play calling instead of Shanny, then I'd have defended McVay.  

 

Interesting also that McVay dumped Goff.  Apparently Kyle ditto with Jimmy G coming soon.   Also after Dilfer won that SB eons ago, he was gone the next year.  Foles gone soon after.

 

Teams that hit that outlier way of making a SB clearly don't rejoice and think its a sustainable model.

The Eagles were in a very tough spot with Foles...he is a good comp to Jimmy G. in that because of his success on a good team he landed a starting job elsewhere and cashed in. We all know how that worked out. The Eagles chose Wentz over Foles likely because they picked him #2 overall and had to roll with him. But you're right, the teams you mentioned were so good they only needed a QB to run the plays and make the good reads without turning the ball over. Foles was great at that. 

I really hope we don't go and trade our 1st for Jimmy G....if the Niners are moving on from him it's for a reason. 

[HigSkin]

😂

 

 

Meanwhile, oft injured Garoppolo did have a AC joint shoulder injury and thumb issue through the last part of the season.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by HigSkin

[skinny21]

5 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Logan is coming off an ACL at age 31. We'll see if he gets to his level.
JD is a nice piece. 

Landon is arguably the worst valued contract on defense in the league

Scherff wont be here and misses 1/3rd of his games.

Agree on Chase

I like Kam a lot and he might be top 10 but not sure.

Generally, I agree with the argument that we’re lacking (or, at the very least, could use more) blue chip talent.  I will say that a lot of teams probably look worse at the end of the season when guys are up for FA or are dealing with long term injuries that might affect them going into the next season.

It also depends on what metrics you’re using to grade guys.  Fuller’s play for example (starting slow, but putting up some really nice PFF scores later), Gibson being hampered by his injuries, oline injuries, and teams stacking the box, Sweat and Young missing out on our secondary coming together, Cosmi missing time, etc.  I think it’s fair to be skeptical, but it’s also fair to think we’ve got a lot of good players - the guys above (in your post and mine), plus Leno, Flowers, Sweitzer, Bates as a #2, WJIII and McCain looked a lot better late, and Samuel could be really positive addition.

If, as someone suggested above, you look at units instead, we’ve got good lines, a pretty good secondary (assuming we return McCain or address FS in some other way) and good ST.  Add a good MLB and that could be a good group.  Add a good qb that can stretch the field and our backs can be dangerous.  Again though, I get the skepticism - if we don’t find a suitable qb, mlb, FS, if Young/Sweat don’t live up to expectations, if Thomas is slow to recover, etc… could be a tough year.

 

 

[Bacon]

No matter which route we choose to go, it's comforting to know that nothing will be a bigger white flag than going into the 2011 season with Rex Grossman and John Beck. Even Trubisky/Heinicke/first round QB would provide more optimism than that. 

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Generally, I agree with the argument that we’re lacking (or, at the very least, could use more) blue chip talent.  I will say that a lot of teams probably look worse at the end of the season when guys are up for FA or are dealing with long term injuries that might affect them going into the next season.

It also depends on what metrics you’re using to grade guys.  Fuller’s play for example (starting slow, but putting up some really nice PFF scores later), Gibson being hampered by his injuries, oline injuries, and teams stacking the box, Sweat and Young missing out on our secondary coming together, Cosmi missing time, etc.  I think it’s fair to be skeptical, but it’s also fair to think we’ve got a lot of good players - the guys above (in your post and mine), plus Leno, Flowers, Sweitzer, Bates as a #2, WJIII and McCain looked a lot better late, and Samuel could be really positive addition.

If, as someone suggested above, you look at units instead, we’ve got good lines, a pretty good secondary (assuming we return McCain or address FS in some other way) and good ST.  Add a good MLB and that could be a good group.  Add a good qb that can stretch the field and our backs can be dangerous.  Again though, I get the skepticism - if we don’t find a suitable qb, mlb, FS, if Young/Sweat don’t live up to expectations, if Thomas is slow to recover, etc… could be a tough year.

 

 

I think you have to look at players. We just dont have the top end talent to compete with some of these other teams. Yes the unit need to be at least decent but it cant all be b- players across a grouping. Give me an A plus player with a d player next to him.

[Hitman#21]

Jimmy G started and beat Dallas in Dallas and GB in GB, you can argue whether he had any impact in those games, but he started and won two road playoff games.

 

I'm in my 30's and witnessed one playoff win.

 

Bring in Jimmy G he's an upgrade.