The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[FootballZombie]

Gotta fit this into the current conversation

 

[Conn]

22 minutes ago, Cool Hwhip said:

I swear some of you are almost hoping Howell sucks so we can get Maye or Williams. That's pretty ridiculous to think that way as a fan. Or am I just being dramatic?

I like Howell a lot. Very excited for the ownership change and all that comes with it, but Howell will get his chance. 
 

But if you told me that I could magically pick one of these two options:

     1. Howell is a top-15/20ish NFL  
           QB (feels like a fair best case

           scenario for him) 
     2. We crash and burn into the #1

          or #2 pick for the incoming

          regime

 

If I could lock one of those results in, I’d pick option #2 every single time and be really excited about it and never think about Howell again. Sorry. 

 

That’s not how the world works though and we’re very likely to see an outcome in between those two that isn’t very exciting for anybody. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Conn

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Jeez guys, does anything good happen in your worlds? How about we just enjoy the coming change of ownership and watch some games - we have a young QB and a new offense with quality skill players to make things interesting and what should be a strong D. Good things could happen or it good be just more meh. 
 

Either way a new era is about to start and we are due some luck at the QB position.

My world is awesome. Doesn't mean I have to pretend that this team has a good year ahead of it.

 

and I can still be excited about Sam and mad that we put no tools around him that weren't already there.

 

I've been so positive about this team every year for so long, without an atta boy, but as soon as I take a realistic stance and point out that we're the broken handicapped railing of the league that nothing good happens in my world.    Sure buddy

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

My world is awesome. Doesn't mean I have to pretend that this team has a good year ahead of it.

 

and I can still be excited about Sam and mad that we put no tools around him that weren't already there.

 

I've been so positive about this team every year for so long, without an atta boy, but as soon as I take a realistic stance and point out that we're the broken handicapped railing of the league that nothing good happens in my world.    Sure buddy

Pretend? 
 

You make it sound like you and only you know what’s going to happen. Anyone sure we will be competing for a deep playoff run is being unrealistic, anyone sure we are heading for a bad year is being unrealistic. Certainty is not a thing at this point in the year.

 

I don’t think you are being realistic - I think you’ve been disappointed by this team so often you have conditioned yourself not just to expect the worst but be sure it’s going to happen.  

[Koolblue13]

24 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Gotta fit this into the current conversation

 

 

is this what you are getting at?

Edited May 28, 2023 by Koolblue13

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Pretend? 
 

You make it sound like you and only you know what’s going to happen. Anyone sure we will be competing for a deep playoff run is being unrealistic, anyone sure we are heading for a bad year is being unrealistic. Certainty is not a thing at this point in the year.

 

I don’t think you are being realistic - I think you’ve been disappointed by this team so often you have conditioned yourself not just to expect the worst but be sure it’s going to happen.  

I don't know any more than anyone else. Just sharing my opinion. 

 

Ron said that the Oline was our biggest issue. He signed two replacement level guys and didn't draft a starter.

 

We also banked on a slow old Thomas and QB with 5 or 6 career catches as TEs? 

 

Then cut the best center on our roster by far. (yes injuries)

 

Is the 7th round rookie a good replacement for McKissic?

 

Am I wrong about nobody else wanting EB? Post turtle. Ron hiring his unemployed buddy on his way out is really something to be excited about.

 

Yeah, just my opinion, but there is an ugly rebuild ahead and it's needed, but it's going to touch everything.

 

Sam is gonna be exciting though. What are your predictions? Between EBs inexperienced but ****y play calling and Sams wild live arm and iffy decision making I'm guessing Winston19 esque type of year.

[redskinss]

46 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Jeez guys, does anything good happen in your worlds? How about we just enjoy the coming change of ownership and watch some games - we have a young QB and a new offense with quality skill players to make things interesting and what should be a strong D. Good things could happen or it good be just more meh. 
 

Either way a new era is about to start and we are due some luck at the QB position.

I can't possibly like this enough  

[MartinC]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

Sam is gonna be exciting though. What are your predictions? Between EBs inexperienced but ****y play calling and Sams wild live arm and iffy decision making I'm guessing Winston19 esque type of year.

I think Sam will show he’s a starting NFL QB, but there will some WTF throws as tends to be aggressive. The offense will be better but limited by the O’Line and the D isn’t good enough to just dominate games. I think we are 7 or 8 win team. But the actual QB and O’Line performance could easily overshoot or undershoot that 7 or 8 wins.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

is this what you are getting at?

I literally laughed out loud. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Conn said:

@Going Commando has been talking about the poor route spacing in Turner’s offense for years. Let’s hope that plague is gone now with EB

I’ve always wondered if the spacing was more on the players running wrong routes rather than play design. Because Scott’s not a total idiot.  and if he was doing something schematically stupid Pops would tell him.
 

Whereas I can totaled believe there was a lackadaisical approach to coaching routes and lack of accountability if not taught correctly or executed properly.

 

It’s probably some of both. And they are both ultimately Scott’s responsibility.  

[RVAskins]

One thing to keep in mind is that we don't have Scott Turner running the offense anymore. His play calling was atrocious. I think EB will get more out of our offense than Turner ever could.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sam is gonna be exciting though. What are your predictions? Between EBs inexperienced but ****y play calling and Sams wild live arm and iffy decision making I'm guessing Winston19 esque type of year.

Really? Winston-esque?

 

I’m gonna go on record right now and say Howell outplays both Daniel Jones and Dak Prescott….this year.

 

If I’m wrong, I will let you know. 😆

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Really? Winston-esque?

 

I’m gonna go on record right now and say Howell outplays both Daniel Jones and Dak Prescott….this year.

 

If I’m wrong, I will let you know. 😆

Yeah, just numbers like that year though. Wild and exciting. Frustrating and exhilarating. 

 

I think he outplays Dak, cause **** the cowboys, but I think Jones is going to surprise people. I wish Sam had his size.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, just numbers like that year though. Wild and exciting. Frustrating and exhilarating. 

 

I think he outplays Dak, cause **** the cowboys, but I think Jones is going to surprise people. I wish Sam had his size.

 

That's what she said too. 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by zCommander

[DWinzit]

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Then cut the best center on our roster by far. (yes injuries)

Your list of reasons are all pretty legit other than this one. The reality is that this was the right move for both health and CAP reasons

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Is the 7th round rookie a good replacement for McKissic?

It looks like the plan will be to spread his role all around based on the emphasis of the screen play. It must mainly be more Gibson and the rookie will be filling this role along with Samuel and different quick shorts and screens to WR's moving all around.

 

I still wonder if they really intended on an earlier RB like Keim and others have eluded to like wanting Gibbs or . If we hadn't made the stupid Wentz trade Achane and Tyjae Spears would have been starring at them in the third round. Instead they both came off the board before our pick.One of those players would have a been great fits into the screen attack.

 

Everything I have read about Rodriguez has me pumped for him in action, but he has little experience in the pass game or in protection. Lucky Sam is tough and can move...until the rookie gets acclimated 

Edited May 29, 2023 by DWinzit

[DWinzit]

11 hours ago, Conn said:

I like Howell a lot. Very excited for the ownership change and all that comes with it, but Howell will get his chance. 
 

But if you told me that I could magically pick one of these two options:

     1. Howell is a top-15/20ish NFL  
           QB (feels like a fair best case

           scenario for him) 
     2. We crash and burn into the #1

          or #2 pick for the incoming

          regime

 

If I could lock one of those results in, I’d pick option #2 every single time and be really excited about it and never think about Howell again. Sorry. 

 

That’s not how the world works though and we’re very likely to see an outcome in between those two that isn’t very exciting for anybody. 

I get this. We have been wallowing in mediocrity for almost 3 decades other than maybe a year and half with RG3

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

You are way too low on this team. You think we’re going to compete for first overall? Wow.

 

 @Koolblue13 might be taking it too far.  . But in his defense there is some context to it.  He along with me were probably the highest on this roster or top 5 on this board give or take headed to the off season.  And we are both dissappointed at Ron in year 4 after having his back in the first 3 years.  I think he's a bit more pessmistic than me, though.    But both of us are a bit pissy at Ron after defending him so much.  So i think the crankiness is somewhat driven by that. 

 

I think for me as I posted in another thread, a big part of it is I wanted to go to a playoff game this season badly.  I've never gone.  And at the start of the off season I felt better than 50% chance that it goes down.  Now I'd say borderline zero chance.

 

@Koolblue13 is far from on an island as to general pessimism about the team.  He mirrors national sentiment.  Fan sentiment too -- Junkies polled fans, and an overwhelming majority expect a losing season.   A NFL Network dude had him the other day at 5 wins.   The NFL giving us no Sunday-Monday Night games, clearly has low expectations. 

 

As far as 2024 mock drafts. I just went through a bunch.  Farrar #5.  CBS Sports #5. Football Outsiders/McShay #6.  Yardbarker #6.   Tankathon #6.  PFF #8.  S! #8.  PFN #8.   

 

It doesn't matter though what all of them think.  But for those who want to make money if they are more optimistic, i'd go to town versus Vegas.  Vegas thinks very low of this team.  And people can bet aganist that and make some money.

 

For me personally, I think these outfits are too pessmistic.  But I don't expect the opposite either.  I think this is an 8 win team give or take.  I can see 6-7 if they have some bad luck.  9 wins if everything breaks right.   I'd probably bet against Vegas on some of those games.

 

Overall, though, I think we are going to kill it in 2024.  I love aspects of the team.  We just IMO need a FO who knows how to finish completing a roster -- while I stand by my strong defense of Ron and this FO over the years.  I got no regrets about that.   I don't see these guys as closers. 

 

Roseman is a closer.  The Eagles an off season ago had some glaring weaknesses and they didn't just throw a bone or two at it -- they made their weaknesses actual strengths while building for the future at the same time.  Masterclass work.  I don't think Ron and this FO have any clue how to do that.   They are like the car who is comfortable on the right lane of the highway, driving a steady 65, and they take pride in that they won't crash the car but don't feel comfortable or know how to amp it up to 80.   But I suspect the next FO will.  So I am feeling good. 

 

Part of me wants @Koolblue13 to be right with an absolute crash of a season.  The first pick in this draft, I'd kill for.   I'd rather have 4-5 wins than 7-8.  But no i do think we will go on a similar ride this season to Ron's previous 3 years -- like the other off seasons, he's given just enough to be competitive and relevant but not enough to compete with the big boys so we end up with some version of mediocrity.    Some cool highs.  Bad lows.  But mostly plodding in the middle,  If I was forced to bet money.  I'd go with better shot at a losing record than a winning record.

 

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/super-bowl/futures

 

Bottom 5 SB odds.

 

 

Washington Commanders	+8000
Indianapolis Colts	+10000
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	+10000
Houston Texans	+10000
Arizona Cardinals	+15000

 

 

 

Favorite to wn in 2 of their games right now

 

https://www.thelines.com/odds/washington-commanders/#p1d217.TerryMcLaurin

 

WASHINGTON COMMANDERS 2023 SCHEDULE

The Washington Commanders will kick off NFL Week 1 at home versus the Arizona Cardinals. The opening line is Commanders -5.5.

Week	Date	Opponent	Kickoff Time	Opening Odds	Closing Line	Final Score

Week 1	Sunday, September 10	vs. Arizona Cardinals	1 p.m. ET	-5.5
Week 2	Sunday, September 17	at Denver Broncos	4:25 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 3	Sunday, September 24	vs. Buffalo Bills	1 p.m. ET	+4.5
Week 4	Sunday, October 1	at Philadelphia Eagles	1 p.m. ET	+7
Week 5	Thursday, October 5	vs. Chicago Bears	8:15 p.m.	-1.5
Week 6	Sunday, October 15	at Atlanta Falcons	1 p.m. ET	+1
Week 7	Sunday, October 22	at New York Giants	1 p.m. ET	+2.5
Week 8	Sunday, October 29	vs. Philadelphia Eagles	1 p.m. ET	+4
Week 9	Sunday, November 5	at New England Patriots	1 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 10	Sunday, November 12	at Seattle Seahawks	4:25 p.m.	+3.5
Week 11	Sunday, November 19	vs. New York Giants	1 p.m. ET	+1.5
Week 12	Thursday, November 23	at Dallas Cowboys	4:30 p.m. ET	+5.5
Week 13	Sunday, December 3	vs. Miami Dolphins	1 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 14	Sunday, December 10	BYE	BYE
Week 15	Sunday, December 17	at Los Angeles Rams	4:05 p.m. ET	+1
Week 16	Sunday, December 24	at New York Jets	1 p.m. ET	+5.5
Week 17	Sunday, December 31	vs. San Francisco 49ers	1 p.m. ET	+3
Week 18	Sunday, January 7	vs. Dallas Cowboys	TBD	+3

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 @Koolblue13 might be taking it too far.  . But in his defense there is some context to it.  He along with me were probably the highest on this roster or top 5 on this board give or take headed to the off season.  And we are both dissappointed at Ron in year 4 after having his back in the first 3 years.  I think he's a bit more pessmistic than me, though.    But both of us are a bit pissy at Ron after defending him so much.  So i think the crankiness is somewhat driven by that. 

 

I think for me as I posted in another thread, a big part of it is I wanted to go to a playoff game this season badly.  I've never gone.  And at the start of the off season I felt better than 50% chance that it goes down.  Now I'd say borderline zero chance.

 

@Koolblue13 is far from on an island as to general pessimism about the team.  He mirrors national sentiment.  Fan sentiment too -- Junkies polled fans, and an overwhelming majority expect a losing season.   A NFL Network dude had him the other day at 5 wins.   The NFL giving us no Sunday-Monday Night games, clearly has low expectations. 

 

As far as 2024 mock drafts. I just went through a bunch.  Farrar #5.  CBS Sports #5. Football Outsiders/McShay #6.  Yardbarker #6.   Tankathon #6.  PFF #8.  S! #8.  PFN #8.   

 

It doesn't matter though what all of them think.  But for those who want to make money if they are more optimistic, i'd go to town versus Vegas.  Vegas thinks very low of this team.  And people can bet aganist that and make some money.

 

For me personally, I think these outfits are too pessmistic.  But I don't expect the opposite either.  I think this is an 8 win team give or take.  I can see 6-7 if they have some bad luck.  9 wins if everything breaks right.   I'd probably bet against Vegas on some of those games.

 

Overall, though, I think we are going to kill it in 2024.  I love aspects of the team.  We just IMO need a FO who knows how to finish completing a roster -- while I stand by my strong defense of Ron and this FO over the years.  I got no regrets about that.   I don't see these guys as closers. 

 

Roseman is a closer.  The Eagles an off season ago had some glaring weaknesses and they didn't just throw a bone or two at it -- they made their weakneses actual strengths.  I don't think Ron and this FO have any clue how to do that.   They are like the car who is comfortable on the right lane of the highway, driving a steady 65, and they take pride in that they won't crash the car but don't feel comfortable or know how to amp it up to 80.   But I suspect the next FO will.  So I am feeling good. 

 

Part of me wants @Koolblue13 to be right with an absolute crash of a season.  The first pick in this draft, I'd kill for.   I'd rather have 4-5 wins than 7-8.  But no i do think we will go on a similar ride this season to Ron's previous 3 years -- like the other off seasons and most of Ron's career for that matter, he's given just enough to be competitive and relevant but not enough to compete with the big boys so we end up with some version of mediocrity.  

 

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/super-bowl/futures

 

Bottom 5 SB odds.

 

 

Washington Commanders	+8000
Indianapolis Colts	+10000
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	+10000
Houston Texans	+10000
Arizona Cardinals	+15000

 

 

 

Favorite to wn in 2 of their games right now

 

https://www.thelines.com/odds/washington-commanders/#p1d217.TerryMcLaurin

 

WASHINGTON COMMANDERS 2023 SCHEDULE

The Washington Commanders will kick off NFL Week 1 at home versus the Arizona Cardinals. The opening line is Commanders -5.5.

Week	Date	Opponent	Kickoff Time	Opening Odds	Closing Line	Final Score

Week 1	Sunday, September 10	vs. Arizona Cardinals	1 p.m. ET	-5.5
Week 2	Sunday, September 17	at Denver Broncos	4:25 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 3	Sunday, September 24	vs. Buffalo Bills	1 p.m. ET	+4.5
Week 4	Sunday, October 1	at Philadelphia Eagles	1 p.m. ET	+7
Week 5	Thursday, October 5	vs. Chicago Bears	8:15 p.m.	-1.5
Week 6	Sunday, October 15	at Atlanta Falcons	1 p.m. ET	+1
Week 7	Sunday, October 22	at New York Giants	1 p.m. ET	+2.5
Week 8	Sunday, October 29	vs. Philadelphia Eagles	1 p.m. ET	+4
Week 9	Sunday, November 5	at New England Patriots	1 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 10	Sunday, November 12	at Seattle Seahawks	4:25 p.m.	+3.5
Week 11	Sunday, November 19	vs. New York Giants	1 p.m. ET	+1.5
Week 12	Thursday, November 23	at Dallas Cowboys	4:30 p.m. ET	+5.5
Week 13	Sunday, December 3	vs. Miami Dolphins	1 p.m. ET	+3.5
Week 14	Sunday, December 10	BYE	BYE
Week 15	Sunday, December 17	at Los Angeles Rams	4:05 p.m. ET	+1
Week 16	Sunday, December 24	at New York Jets	1 p.m. ET	+5.5
Week 17	Sunday, December 31	vs. San Francisco 49ers	1 p.m. ET	+3
Week 18	Sunday, January 7	vs. Dallas Cowboys	TBD	+3

 

 

I don’t understand how you can swing so far on the pendulum. The roster is essentially the same roster that you guys were high on (I wasn’t, for what it’s worth).

 

We lost McCain, Heinicke, Wentz, Holcomb.

 

The guys we added are better than the guys we had. (Aside from Holcomb/Barton… I’m not sure what the thought at inside backer is at all over the last half decade.)
 

Yet I am still semi disappointed in the roster construction. It’s kind of been a baseline C across the board for me.

 

I like our team better this year because of Howell, a very slightly improved OL and hopefully a better secondary. But it’s not a landslide victory.

 

I get the disappointment, but why the gigantic swing in how you feel? Was part of your feeling on the roster based on the assumption they’d make a few key additions to it? If so, I don’t really view that as feeling good about the roster… it’s more feeling good about the potential of it. 
 

To me, we have consistently put out okay rosters that are mediocre floor mediocre ceiling teams. And we’ve continued. 
 

The X-Factor for me now, though, is Howell. I think he gives this team a baseline change to good ceiling, okay floor. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve always wondered if the spacing was more on the players running wrong routes rather than play design. Because Scott’s not a total idiot.  and if he was doing something schematically stupid Pops would tell him.
 

Whereas I can totaled believe there was a lackadaisical approach to coaching routes and lack of accountability if not taught correctly or executed properly.

 

It’s probably some of both. And they are both ultimately Scott’s responsibility.  

 

I never really sat down and studied Scot's scheme.  I did watch the running game very closely in one live game i was at and it seemed to be well schemed in that context.  I at a minimum couldn't guess where the play was going based on motion.

 

I do recall saying to you among others when the conversation turned to him being a HC candidate somewhere -- no way -- because the dude has zero personality.    His boring dad has James Bond level charisma compared to Scott. 

 

And that point was apparently a bigger deal to him being a coordinator than I realized.  I can see it stopping him from ever being a head coach-leader of men spot but surprised how it was an issue in the coordinator spot.  Keim and Paulsen have referenced that point multiple times.  His flat personality gave little confidence to that unit or oomph.  

 

Paulsen said ironically Bieineimy's scheme isn't much different from Scott's.  He thinks the improvement will be in the sequence of the plays, and that he's more detail driven.  Paulsen's main complaint was sequencing. 

 

I know he though Scot was obsessed with shallow crossers-pick routes on critical third downs and it was easy for teams to clamp down on that because of how predictable it was.  I know his other complaint was the playaction was off -- the run game didn't marry the pass game on that front so teams weren't fooled.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[ultravin]

if this team needs a crash season, then they should have kept scott turner.  lol

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I get the disappointment, but why the gigantic swing in how you feel? Was part of your feeling on the roster based on the assumption they’d make a few key additions to it? If so, I don’t really view that as feeling good about the roster… it’s more feeling good about the potential of it. 

 

I think one of the major factors between this season and last despite having a team that is actually a little better is that we didn't have to go into last season with the best division in football hanging over our heads.

 

The Giants realized some of their potential last year. Dallas is still a one of the better teams in the NFC and Philly is a contender. All three won a playoff game.

 

Then there is us.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Whereas I can totaled believe there was a lackadaisical approach to coaching routes and lack of accountability if not taught correctly or executed properly.

 

EB is stressing this in practice at least and has Howell getting on the Oline for being sluggish breaking the huddle....so THIS gives me some hope!

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand how you can swing so far on the pendulum. The roster is essentially the same roster that you guys were high on (I wasn’t, for what it’s worth).

 

We lost McCain, Heinicke, Wentz, Holcomb.

 

The guys we added are better than the guys we had. (Aside from Holcomb/Barton… I’m not sure what the thought at inside backer is at all over the last half decade.)
 

Yet I am still semi disappointed in the roster construction. It’s kind of been a baseline C across the board for me.

 

I like our team better this year because of Howell, a very slightly improved OL and hopefully a better secondary. But it’s not a landslide victory.

 

I get the disappointment, but why the gigantic swing in how you feel? Was part of your feeling on the roster based on the assumption they’d make a few key additions to it? If so, I don’t really view that as feeling good about the roster… it’s more feeling good about the potential of it. 
 

To me, we have consistently put out okay rosters that are mediocre floor mediocre ceiling teams. And we’ve continued. 
 

The X-Factor for me now, though, is Howell. I think he gives this team a baseline change to good ceiling, okay floor. 

 

 

 

 

 

You point almost line for line mirrors mine.  So we aren't much apart.   I flat out predicted mediocrity. 

 

My point is I've not swung on the pendulum at all for myself.   I don't feel worse about this roster than last year.  I feel a little bit better about it.  But the operative word for me is "little" not much.  My point is in the first three years for Ron this rodeo felt acceptable.  In 4 years the same rodeo more or less is unacceptable to me.  That's really my point.   And I'd add that we are alas in a divison with the other teams having better FOs with more of a sense of urgency than ours. 

 

And its tough for me to get jazzed for round 4 of the same ride -- 7-9 wins.  It's enough for me.  And its mostly about being dissappointed in Ron.  If I didn't invest all that time defending him - I'd feel better about this.   I don't agree with Vegas, name that anayltic outfit, mock drafters, etc that this is a bad team.  I think mediocre to maybe slightly less -- so sort of round 4 of the same movie under Ron versus the crash season that most of the national media is expecting.

 

I went on the same ride with Shanny.  The first three years i got it.   I defended him a lot.  Give him time.  I thought I got what he was doing.  He was building and would take it up a notch.  Finish it for year 4.  He didn't.  In Shanny's case my beef was the defense.  I didn't like how he handled RG3 but that was a sidebar for me, the gravy to the point.   The main point was the defense didn't make progress and 4 years is plenty of time to do it. 

 

If we can see teams like the Giants rise to heights we haven't matched since 2005 (as to winning a playoff game) in one season among other teams who have climbed in a year or two -- while we got a dude IMO who can't build a winning roster in 4 years assuming my feelings on this is correct, then he has to go and I find it dissappointing.  That's all. 

 

I don't think my take is different from yours at all.  You didn't love this off season either.  Like you, i have some optimism about Howell and think he's better than Redacted and Wentz.  We like the defense.  Have concerns about the O line.  Don't love LB and TE.   

 

The issue for me betting on optimism based on Howell.

 

A.  i am old school believing the best friend for a QB, especially a young one is the O line.  So the O line really dampens some of my optimism on the Howell front.

 

B. I am a bit superstitious about being hyped about a young QB before he plays a full season.    It's a rodeo we've all gone on here and there for 30 some odd years.  So I want to see some of it to play out.  

Edited May 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think one of the major factors between this season and last despite having a team that is actually a little better is that we didn't have to go into last season with the best division in football hanging over our heads.

 

The Giants realized some of their potential last year. Dallas is still a one of the better teams in the NFC and Philly is a contender. All three won a playoff game.

 

Then there is us.

I absolutely agree. But that has nothing to do with our roster construction.

 

I agree, for the record. I don’t feel good. But my view on our roster hasn’t changed. Mediocre. 

[samy316]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I absolutely agree. But that has nothing to do with our roster construction.

 

I agree, for the record. I don’t feel good. But my view on our roster hasn’t changed. Mediocre. 

My main point about this offseason, is that we didn’t do enough to keep up with the rest of the division, which is suddenly the best division in the NFL, outside of the AFC North.  All three teams in the division got better, while we didn’t do enough to elevate.  Unfortunately, a lot of this has to do with the ownership saga, so we were limited and on a budget.  But this doesn’t negate the previous years of questionable offseason moves at QB under Rivera.  Unless the Giants fall back to earth next year, I’m predicting another last place finish.  If this were last year, or two years ago, I wouldn’t feel as down on this team as I do this go-around, but it almost looks like the division lapped us, while we stayed neutral.

 

If Rivera we’re simply just an HC, I wouldn’t blame him much for working with what’s given to him, but the fact that he has FO duties, and roster management powers, makes him the target if things go south.  We’re mediocre in coaching, and in roster management, which will ultimately be Ron’s undoing if or when this season goes off the rails.

Edited May 29, 2023 by samy316