All things defense

[RandyHolt]

42 minutes ago, gortiz said:

its wild to me that he's kind of shielded during all this.  its not a far fetched to say he screwed up chase and Montez to some degree. of course alongside with Ron. 

Ron is the shield. All things equal its far easier to try a new face at DC vs jettisoning off your best players. Sure we have a new owner winds of change BLAH BLAH but with all the draft capital we have spent on defense, it seems neglectful to not try a new DC because tearing the core of the defense apart. Basically blaming the players. DO YER JOBS!!!

 

JDR simply has to go.

Edited November 1, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Hooper]

Don't be shocked if the D plays better without Sweat and Young.

 

It happened before.

 

And how could they play worse?

 

Really curious to get an extended look at Toohill, who has four sacks already with not nearly as many reps as Young or Sweat. 

[RandyHolt]

I think we will be better on D. New blood fresh legs and movitated....

 

That all said. My constant complaining sorry not sorry about JDR not blitzing QBs enough - trading our top 2 pass rushers is very much symbolic of all that JDR stands for. He doesn't want to sack the QB.  Matt Jones is going to light up our defense. JDR doesn't value generating turnovers by attacking the QB as a priority - then guess what - new dad Josh is taking your toys away. JDR didn't know how to use them to win games, it was always hold on for dear life while failing to keep teams under 30/300.

Edited November 1, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Chachie]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:55 PM, method man said:

Part of the issue is they play a ton for linemen. Teams like the Eagles are religious about how they rotate their tackles and ends to keep them fresh. With our depth, we can do the same. I don’t know why we don’t 

 

 

Yes sir!! I was telling someone the same thing recently. Dead legs are dead legs no matter where they were drafted. Mix it up a bit.

[ultravin]

Funny thing is what if the defense really does its job the way they envisioned it now that both chase and Montez are gone?  Can’t get any worse now!  😂🤣😩

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

1 hour ago, ultravin said:

Funny thing is what if the defense really does its job the way they envisioned it now that both chase and Montez are gone?  Can’t get any worse now!  😂🤣😩

It would be so amazing if the defense does a great job, the rest of the season. It would be like getting our cake and eating it too. Two  top 100 draft picks added, one almost a 1st rounder probably AND our defense is better????? Yeehaw! Woot woot! 

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, Chachie said:

 

 

Yes sir!! I was telling someone the same thing recently. Dead legs are dead legs no matter where they were drafted. Mix it up a bit.

Its killed me for years to hear that OL can never be rested. That its best to let fresh DL tee off on them every snap, that the backup has no idea what his QBs cadence is, that it simply cannot be risked. 5 static or nothing. Yet we have all seen backup OL go into games because of injury and not miss a beat.  And the ones out there the entire games are making mental mistakes including false starts holding penalties and blowing assignments getting their QB pummeled.  FINALLY we saw teams start subbing out OL last year - IIRC Dallas in the playoffs.

 

Mix it up indeed. The old counter was hurry up but we abhorred that for so long its not even popular anymore.

[FunBunny]

Maybe Del Rio will actually try to coach now that he doesn't have probowl-caliber DEs to lean on, because leaning on the front-4 has worked great all season. 

[skins island connection]

8 hours ago, Hooper said:

Don't be shocked if the D plays better without Sweat and Young.

 

It happened before.

 

And how could they play worse?

 

Really curious to get an extended look at Toohill, who has four sacks already with not nearly as many reps as Young or Sweat. 

 Thats almost a gimme scenario. That crossed my mind as well, and they're playing against a QB who isn't highly regarded, and it'll prob result in at least 3 picks, and some will right back in that cozy spot thinking things turned a corner. Unfortunately i've tried telling those people a circle has no corners

[WilberMarshall]

8 hours ago, Hooper said:

Don't be shocked if the D plays better without Sweat and Young.

 

It happened before.

 

And how could they play worse?

 

Really curious to get an extended look at Toohill, who has four sacks already with not nearly as many reps as Young or Sweat. 

They will play better because there are no two cowboys looking to pad their stats in order to get paid.

 

I would like to see 50 and 55 on the field on passing downs knowing that they have closing speed. 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 Thats almost a gimme scenario. That crossed my mind as well, and they're playing against a QB who isn't highly regarded, and it'll prob result in at least 3 picks, and some will right back in that cozy spot thinking things turned a corner. Unfortunately i've tried telling those people a circle has no corners

It has sharp edges if you fold it in half and it’s made of steel.

[Silvernon]

23 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying.

 

Let me give an example of what I mean.  The Broncos traded a 2023 3 rd pick to the Seahawks.  The Broncos gave up a 2024 3rd round pick.

 

So the Seahawks are putting a 3rd round pick off for a year and the Broncos are moving up a year.  But the Seahawks also got a 2023 4th round pick.

 

Moving back a year in the 3rd round was worth a 4th round pick.  Moving back 5 years in the first round should be worth even more.

 

**EDIT** Sorry.  Reading my post over, I mixed it up in the 2nd sentence.  The rest is right.  I'll point out that I'm pretty sure it has always been like that pretty much.  Moving back in years has always had value.

That valuation only works for future picks. A 3rd round pick in 2024 is 'equal to' a 2nd Round in 2025 or a 1st Round in 2026.

 

It is clear as day that a 2019 pick who would be re-signed to a deal by now (or on the 5th year option) is getting paid. They are not more valuable to the team than a productive rookie. 

 

As for when that dynamic was different: look at the rookie contracts for Stafford and Calvin Johnson. When the rookie contracts were handled by the CBA, the value of the rookie contracts to a team were far greater.

 

If you have a productive 2nd round pass rusher next year who is roughly average as opposed to a fringe pro-bowler getting paid $22-25 million/yr, you take the guy the lower cost option. 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Silvernon

[Warhead36]

The defense will play well this week...because the Pats offense is awful. 

 

But it'll still be amusing when Smith-Williams and Toohill are applying consistent pressure and actually finishing sacks. 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The defense will play well this week...because the Pats offense is awful. 

 

But it'll still be amusing when Smith-Williams and Toohill are applying consistent pressure and actually finishing sacks. 

 

 

Someone should slip something into JDR's coffee before the game to make him go goofy so he'll call all kinds of aggressive blitzes and see what the outcome is. The NYG coordinator blitzed us 75% of the time and Howell's head was spinning. 

What the hell does JDR have to lose by just blitzing like crazy? Giving up 40 pts instead of 35 against the hapless, pathetic Patriots offense? 

We should see a jailbreak this Sunday or else leave JDR there to find his own way home. I'm sick of this **** too.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Someone should slip something into JDR's coffee before the game to make him go goofy so he'll call all kinds of aggressive blitzes and see what the outcome is. The NYG coordinator blitzed us 75% of the time and Howell's head was spinning. 

What the hell does JDR have to lose by just blitzing like crazy? Giving up 40 pts instead of 35 against the hapless, pathetic Patriots offense? 

We should see a jailbreak this Sunday or else leave JDR there to find his own way home. I'm sick of this **** too.

It sounds good but we aren't a good blitzing team either. Part of it is that Del Rio isn't very creative with them. They're so easy to read and its often just guys running in super late and right into a wall. But we also have guys who just aren't good blitzers either. They're just slow and not explosive enough. 

 

There is a skill to blitzing and creativity needed from your D Coord to be good at it. 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

I love Darrell Green and I found his comments on Forbes to be interesting. Do yall think that DG really can turn Forbes career trajectory around in just 10 minutes?? Which is basically what Darrell said. I guess he sees fundamental flaws in his game. Too bad he isn't our secondary coach.

[Conn]

17 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I love Darrell Green and I found his comments on Forbes to be interesting. Do yall think that DG really can turn Forbes career trajectory around in just 10 minutes?? Which is basically what Darrell said. I guess he sees fundamental flaws in his game. Too bad he isn't our secondary coach.

No I do not think that 

 

I’m sure Green has some actionable insight that would help him, given his experience. I don’t want to discount that given what I’m gonna say later in my post. Do I think it’s a matter of “NFL WR’s hate this one trick I can teach you in 10 minutes” that NFL DB coaches just don’t know about? No lol. No disrespect intended but most older dudes who don’t actually coach are just full of **** when it comes to the assumption that because they were great, they could teach a young guy to fix their game in the modern NFL. Most of them couldn’t, though their advice and insight could still prove invaluable. 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Someone should slip something into JDR's coffee before the game to make him go goofy so he'll call all kinds of aggressive blitzes and see what the outcome is. The NYG coordinator blitzed us 75% of the time and Howell's head was spinning. 

What the hell does JDR have to lose by just blitzing like crazy? 

 Del Rio is going to have to work to scheme pressure. Which he should have been doing all along.

 

But for the ‘blitz like crazy’ thing to work it does rather depend on the opposing OC being unaware of the ability to call screens, quick game, run draws and throw fades against single coverage. We can’t rely on every OC being as accommodating as EB was against the Giants.

[Drock_VB]

Wouldn’t surprise me if the defense improves after the trades.  

[Skinsinparadise]

interesting from Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38788272/why-commanders-traded-chase-young-montez-sweat-nfl-trade-deadline

 

Why did Commanders trade both of their defensive ends?

Both would be free agents this offseason, and, based on these moves, the team no longer wanted to invest as heavily in one position group. Now, one source said, the Commanders can build a more balanced roster through spending and draft picks. Washington already had paid two other first-round picks along the front in Payne and Allen. The group was supposed to provide the foundation for defensive success. But Rivera was honest when asked whether they had played to the level he anticipated this season.

"Not consistently enough," he said. "You see it, but you've got to see it all the time, and that's really the mark of when it really comes together, is that it's consistent."

Throughout the offseason, team sources said they wanted to extend Sweat. And, if Young produced, they could always use the franchise tag on him and keep both players. After all, if Howell played well, it gave them a young quarterback on a rookie contract. Plus, Washington has all that cap space for 2024. The combination added up to keeping both -- if the Commanders wanted.

 

But, while Sweat and Young had combined for 11.5 sacks this season, the team had lost five of its past six games. Internally, multiple sources said, it became clear the Commanders needed more help elsewhere -- and it would be difficult to keep Sweat or Young. Sweat would have been the preferred choice long term, one source said, but the potential cost of his deal -- Spotrac listed his market value around $25 million a year -- combined with the Bears' offer made trading him the best option. Had it only been a third-round pick, a source said, it's unlikely the team would have traded Sweat.

 

There was also concern, multiple sources said, about Young's long-term durability after he suffered not only a torn ACL but also a ruptured patellar tendon in his right knee in 2021. Indeed, sources said, medical concerns prevented some teams who had expressed interest from making an offer.

Another factor hinged on potential compensatory picks. Because Washington has a lot of cap space, it can be active in free agency. If the Commanders sign an expensive player, it would negate what they might have lost in Sweat or Young -- and they would not have received a compensatory pick.

 

There were also concerns about the lack of on-field chemistry among the starting defensive line, multiple sources said. According to sources, when Rivera said three weeks ago that the mantra of "Do Your Job" was directed as much at the defensive line as any group, Young was a particular target of that message; one source said the team viewed trading him as "addition by subtraction." A source said a lack of gap discipline impacted not only the pass rush but defending the run.

The coaching staff also knew that, two years ago, when Washington played without Sweat and/or Young for six games, it went 4-2 and improved in every key statistical category -- going from allowing 29.9 points per game to 17.5 and from 400 yards allowed to 284. But Sweat and Young are also having more productive seasons than in 2021.

 

Finally, for Washington to improve this season it'll take a lot more help from the back seven. The Commanders rank 31st in points and 29th in yards because that group has a lot of holes. If they don't stop allowing big plays -- they lead the NFL in 22 pass plays allowed of 25 or more yards -- then not enough will change to turn their season around.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Someone should slip something into JDR's coffee before the game to make him go goofy so he'll call all kinds of aggressive blitzes and see what the outcome is. The NYG coordinator blitzed us 75% of the time and Howell's head was spinning. 

What the hell does JDR have to lose by just blitzing like crazy? Giving up 40 pts instead of 35 against the hapless, pathetic Patriots offense? 

We should see a jailbreak this Sunday or else leave JDR there to find his own way home. I'm sick of this **** too.

 

He blitzed more when Sweat and Chase were out two years ago.  I'd expect the same again.

 

Blitzing as we know isn't the cure all.  Some of the better defenses over the years don't blitz a heck of a lot.  Giants defense blitzes like crazy but has been near bottom ranked in the last two years.

 

Haslett who most of us hated, was uber aggressive, blitzed like mad. 

 

My point is Del Rio needs to pick his spots well on this front.  If I recall one season he had his share of Gregg Williams style some corner blitzes that worked well, we haven't seen though that much of late.  He seems to favor fire zone blitzes.

 

But I think from a pure bravado standpoint, losing Chase-Sweat might bring out better play calling.  I get the vibe that this staff wants to show they can do better without them.  Will see.  

[RandyHolt]

JDR will certainly consider playing the "well I HAVE to blitz more since you traded away our only 2 proven pass rush NFL ends duh" out of spite but it'd be more because he feels like an idiot for fumbling away a dream team of sorts front 4 and try to salvage his next gig. The trades give him the easy excuse to blitz more and magically our defense will be better. If our D goes Haslet aggressive and does great I hope Keim or someone else calls him out why did you wait so long to adjust this season when in years past it only took him 4 weeks to see his annual failure. If the front 4 wasn't getting it done giving up historically bad total yards AND points, why only change AFTER they are broken up?

 

I still call bunk that our entire defense is slow and not explosive enough to attack at the LOS. Who is slow, Ridgeway? The scheme makes them play slow.

 

I'll be the salmon and predict JDR goes less blitz - back to having Mike read snoozer novels vs ripping Mac F'in Jones's helmet off as he is driven into the turf. Try to show management that his system was fine and make Landon Collins Will Jackson Manny Forbes Chase Young the fall guy.  We may see JSW and Toohill bull rush in OTs chests all day. JDR is an arrogant ass and you can see it in pressers. It takes him a LONG time to admit his failures and adjust.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by RandyHolt

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

JDR will certainly consider playing the "well I HAVE to blitz more since you traded away our only 2 proven pass rush NFL ends duh" out of spite but it'd be more because he feels like an idiot for fumbling away a dream team of sorts front 4 and try to salvage his next gig. The trades give him the easy excuse to blitz more and magically our defense will be better. If our D goes Haslet aggressive and does great I hope Keim or someone else calls him out why did you wait so long to adjust this season when in years past it only took him 4 weeks to see his annual failure. If the front 4 wasn't getting it done giving up historically bad total yards AND points, why only change AFTER they are broken up?

 

I still call bunk that our entire defense is slow and not explosive enough to attack at the LOS. Who is slow, Ridgeway? The scheme makes them play slow.

 

I'll be the salmon and predict JDR goes less blitz - back to having Mike read snoozer novels vs ripping Mac F'in Jones's helmet off as he is driven into the turf. Try to show management that his system was fine and make Landon Collins Will Jackson Manny Forbes Chase Young the fall guy.  We may see JSW and Toohill bull rush in OTs chests all day. JDR is an arrogant ass and you can see it in pressers. It takes him a LONG time to admit his failures and adjust.

 

 

If the Raiders can turn the HC job over to Antonio Pierce then we should fire JDR and give Kerrigan the DC job for the remainder of this season. I'll bet the guys would LOVE it and play very hard for him. 

[RandyHolt]

25 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

If the Raiders can turn the HC job over to Antonio Pierce then we should fire JDR and give Kerrigan the DC job for the remainder of this season. I'll bet the guys would LOVE it and play very hard for him. 

Agree. To me the slippery slope is EB.  I had been beating the drums to make him head coach. If he fails then guess what - we probably can't demote him back to OC only. So I am back peddling....

 

So name Kerrigan interim head coach / head coach defense. Let EB focus on offense... He can be evaluated at year end as an OC and try to keep Sam's head from spinning with a 4th playbook in 4 years should EB fail as head coach.

Edited November 2, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Thinking Skins]

Ok, I'm going to post why I'm optimistic for the rest of the season. I've already been posting why I'm optimistic about Howell but here comes the defense stuff. Prepare to be amazed. 

 

Rush Yards
Dobbs - 258
Wilson - 201
Allen - 189
Hurts - 280
Fields - 237
Ridder - 139
Taylor - 98 (3 games)
Hurts - 280
----------
Mac Jones - 68
Geno Smith - 49
Giants - (I dont know who's playing buy both guys are dangerous)
Prescott - 104
Tua - 26
Stafford - 68
Z. Wilson - 123
Purdy - 107
Prescott - 104

 

You see that divide. Previously I've been saying that we were going against former MVPs but maybe its as simple as going against the threat of run. Now we are going up against a bunch of immobile QBs coming up except NY (maybe Jones plays and he may be immobile) and that may spark a run.