All things defense

[method man]

That Mathis stat is wrong. He did play last year before going down in the Jax game

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

That Mathis stat is wrong. He did play last year before going down in the Jax game

Correct, he just has no stats so it's like he never existed other than on the CAP stats

[Panninho]

If you can't/won't pay both, you got to move at least one of them of the price is right. We ain't really going anywhere this season and can't afford losing them for free after this year. Also got to make the GM role more attractive for the next guy.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I suspect they don't pull the trigger or if they do its fueled by Harris-ownership.  but will see.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The question is compensation.  What do you get for a DE on an expiring contract for a 10 game rental? 
 

Is a 4th worth it?  Would they get a 4th?  5th?  I doubt you would take anything less than a 5th. 
 

The expiring nature of the contract and the 10 game rental vastly decrease the trade value. Though I think the receiving team inherits the right to franchise either one.  

 

If take a 4th and run to the bank for Sweat.  
 

Young, I dunno.  I think it would have to be more.  He’s returning to form and I think at the very least they franchise him in the off-season.

 

I just find it hard to believe the value is there for a 3rd rounder or better.  But if it is, I’d jump on it.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is compensation.  What do you get for a DE on an expiring contract for a 10 game rental? 
 

Is a 4th worth it?  Would they get a 4th?  5th?  I doubt you would take anything less than a 5th. 
 

The expiring nature of the contract and the 10 game rental vastly decrease the trade value. Though I think the receiving team inherits the right to franchise either one.  

 

If take a 4th and run to the bank for Sweat.  
 

Young, I dunno.  I think it would have to be more.  He’s returning to form and I think at the very least they franchise him in the off-season.

 

I just find it hard to believe the value is there for a 3rd rounder or better.  But if it is, I’d jump on it.  

The only thing you can take is something better than a comp 3rd.

[Koolblue13]

If a team like the Lions want to put Chase on the other side of Hutch, that's worth a hell of a lot more than a comp 3rd.

 

Both of those guys are 1rst round talents who can be retained.

[mh86]

8 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Correct, he just has no stats so it's like he never existed other than on the CAP stats

I honestly forgot he was on the team. Sad.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is compensation.  What do you get for a DE on an expiring contract for a 10 game rental? 
 

Is a 4th worth it?  Would they get a 4th?  5th?  I doubt you would take anything less than a 5th. 
 

The expiring nature of the contract and the 10 game rental vastly decrease the trade value. Though I think the receiving team inherits the right to franchise either one.  

 

If take a 4th and run to the bank for Sweat.  
 

Young, I dunno.  I think it would have to be more.  He’s returning to form and I think at the very least they franchise him in the off-season.

 

I just find it hard to believe the value is there for a 3rd rounder or better.  But if it is, I’d jump on it.  

Of course they maintain the right to franchise them. If someone is trading for one of these guys it's not as depth pieces.  They're  speculating they can pay speculators prices

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

The only thing you can take is something better than a comp 3rd.

And I’m not sure either gets that.  
 

The thing with comp picks though, we might not even get comp picks for them because unless I’m mistaken, it’s an offsetting proposition: the players we sign offset with the players we lose.  And with $70m in cap room, we might spend on other players at a rate which decreases the comp pick. 
 

It’s complex math.  Because the calculation of comp picks is a state secret

 

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And I’m not sure either gets that.  
 

The thing with comp picks though, we might not even get comp picks for them because unless I’m mistaken, it’s an offsetting proposition: the players we sign offset with the players we lose.  And with $70m in cap room, we might spend on other players at a rate which decreases the comp pick. 
 

It’s complex math.  Because the calculation of comp picks is a state secret

 

We do have a fairly  large number of free agents who will be on someone's  team next year which will help that

[JSSkinz]

What's up with Mathis, I haven't heard any updates on when he might come off IR.

[MisterPinstripe]

Giants have not scored an offensive touchdown in the first half this season. Which means they will score a TD on their first drive against us, we are record breakers but our defense also has been terrible.

Edited October 22, 2023 by MisterPinstripe

[Silvernon]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is compensation.  What do you get for a DE on an expiring contract for a 10 game rental? 
 

Is a 4th worth it?  Would they get a 4th?  5th?  I doubt you would take anything less than a 5th. 
 

The expiring nature of the contract and the 10 game rental vastly decrease the trade value. Though I think the receiving team inherits the right to franchise either one.  

 

If take a 4th and run to the bank for Sweat.  
 

Young, I dunno.  I think it would have to be more.  He’s returning to form and I think at the very least they franchise him in the off-season.

 

I just find it hard to believe the value is there for a 3rd rounder or better.  But if it is, I’d jump on it.  

Sweat has graded out pretty strong for a couple of years now and has stayed on the field.

 

If you can get him for a second rounder, he probably will do better over the next 5-7 years compared to using a first rounder on a DE.

 

If they can't get a second - and it is hard to move capi $ midseason - I think you go with the tag and trade. Can you do the transition tag and franchise tag still?

[philibusters]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is compensation.  What do you get for a DE on an expiring contract for a 10 game rental? 
 

Is a 4th worth it?  Would they get a 4th?  5th?  I doubt you would take anything less than a 5th. 
 

The expiring nature of the contract and the 10 game rental vastly decrease the trade value. Though I think the receiving team inherits the right to franchise either one.  

 

If take a 4th and run to the bank for Sweat.  
 

Young, I dunno.  I think it would have to be more.  He’s returning to form and I think at the very least they franchise him in the off-season.

 

I just find it hard to believe the value is there for a 3rd rounder or better.  But if it is, I’d jump on it.  

 

Chase is two years young and probably has higher trade value.  

 

I think we are asking for a first rounder for Chase, but would take something that adds up to slightly less than 1st rounder.  For example two second rounds are considered equal to a first rounder in some scenarios.  We may take a second and a third for Chase.     For Sweat, I think we want a second and some change.   Probably asking for a second and third or something like that but would take a second and a fifth or a second and a swap of our 4th round pick for their third round pick or something like that.  These are all guesses.   

 

Is a fourth worth it?  Definitely not in my opinion.  Is a third rounder worth it?  For me no.   Any trade regarding Young and Sweat is going to have to involve at least a second rounder if I am the GM.

[Koolblue13]

I'd love to see an absolute fire sale and tank the rest of the season, but its not happening. Denver can do it, because their long term coach is in place.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd love to see an absolute fire sale and tank the rest of the season, but its not happening. Denver can do it, because their long term coach is in place.

The thing is, we don’t have much to firesale which will bring back value.  Like 50% of the starters are on expiring contests.  That immediately limits the return.  Young/Sweat might bring the most.  But what are you getting for others? 
 

5 additional 5-7th round picks is not all that interesting to me.  

[wit33]

Consider making a trade for a player if you decide to part ways with one of those guys. The NFL has been catching up to the NBA in terms of aggressiveness and out-of-the-box thinking when it comes to team building, but they still lag far behind in terms of trade compensation. Draft picks are often overrated when you’re giving up a good to great player.

 

Force a team to give up one their good players in return. 

[MrJL]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The thing is, we don’t have much to firesale which will bring back value.  Like 50% of the starters are on expiring contests.  That immediately limits the return.  Young/Sweat might bring the most.  But what are you getting for others? 
 

5 additional 5-7th round picks is not all that interesting to me.  

 

And the places where we've got guys under contract they're not that great or they're in positions that don't get a lot of return on trades

[wit33]

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The thing is, we don’t have much to firesale which will bring back value.  Like 50% of the starters are on expiring contests.  That immediately limits the return.  Young/Sweat might bring the most.  But what are you getting for others? 
 

5 additional 5-7th round picks is not all that interesting to me.  

Absolute waste to trade one of those guys for that compensation. Go get someone else’s good player. Be creative and aggressive. 

[CapsSkins]

Trade them for OL.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The thing is, we don’t have much to firesale which will bring back value.  Like 50% of the starters are on expiring contests.  That immediately limits the return.  Young/Sweat might bring the most.  But what are you getting for others? 
 

5 additional 5-7th round picks is not all that interesting to me.  

Expiring contracts don't matter when you're looking to add top notch players to put you over the top of a playoff run. 

 

Teams like the Texans aren't going to be looking for an elite DE with no contract, but the Dolphins could a safety like Curl or a corner like Fuller. Lions could really benefit from a pass rush end.

 

If anyone is getting traded, it's because someone is trying to get to the superbowl this year, not build for the future.

 

Curtis Samuel could be the player the Eagles need to get their offense back on track.

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Absolute waste to trade one of those guys for that compensation. Go get someone else’s good player. Be creative and aggressive. 

We're not trading any of our good players for a 6th round pick. That's absurd.

[Voice_of_Reason]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Expiring contracts don't matter when you're looking to add top notch players to put you over the top of a playoff run. 

 

Teams like the Texans aren't going to be looking for an elite DE with no contract, but the Dolphins could a safety like Curl or a corner like Fuller. Lions could really benefit from a pass rush end.

 

If anyone is getting traded, it's because someone is trying to get to the superbowl this year, not build for the future.

 

Curtis Samuel could be the player the Eagles need to get their offense back on track.

Can you remember the last time a player on an expiring contract was traded for a high return? Honest question. I can’t. Maybe I’m missing one, but I don’t think it happens much in the NFL.  Unlike in baseball where it happens all the time. 

[wit33]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Expiring contracts don't matter when you're looking to add top notch players to put you over the top of a playoff run. 

 

Teams like the Texans aren't going to be looking for an elite DE with no contract, but the Dolphins could a safety like Curl or a corner like Fuller. Lions could really benefit from a pass rush end.

 

I think NFL teams should be more open to the idea of acquiring talent even if their current season's performance is subpar. Why not bring in players during the season if they can contribute in future seasons? Teams with poor records from previous seasons often spend excessive amounts of money on free agents, so why not be proactive and bring in a player early? The NBA frequently follows this approach. For instance, Washington could trade a 26-year-old quality player for another team's 30-year-old talent, among other possibilities.

 

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

If anyone is getting traded, it's because someone is trying to get to the superbowl this year, not build for the future.

 

I understand that this approach goes against historical norms, but why shouldn’t a team utilize the trade market to lay the foundation for the future?

 

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Curtis Samuel could be the player the Eagles need to get their offense back on track.

 

Keep your filthy eyes off of Samuel. I bet you’ve got all sorts of plans for him and the Eagles.

 

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're not trading any of our good players for a 6th round pick. That's absurd.

 

Fans and media seem to think it’s not absurd. I agree with you. 

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Can you remember the last time a player on an expiring contract was traded for a high return? Honest question. I can’t. Maybe I’m missing one, but I don’t think it happens much in the NFL.  Unlike in baseball where it happens all the time. 

Eagles traded for CJGJ last year on an expiring contract. Surtain might be traded with one cheap year left on his deal that will need to be redone.Van Jefferson is in the last year of his deal. Cam Akers is in the last year.

 

Seems like it happens a lot.

 

A Samuels or Curl and a 6th from a 4rth seems realistic. Going for former first rounders with success like Sweat and Chase carries a higher pick and makes a larger impact.

 

If you're one of the 5 or 6 teams looking at a SB run, it's worth trading a day 1/2 pick for players like that who could put your defense over the top.