The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[sjinhan]

3 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Yes that is the ultimate goal but let’s be realistic, back to back division champs and playoff win is the right direction especially after 30 years of futility. 
 

Also I’m pretty sure Allen is not eligible for the PS. He signed a restricted free agent contract this year. 

 Covid practice squad rules.

 

• Up to six players per team with no limitations as to their number of earned accrued seasons

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-practice-squad-salaries-rules-2021/1wt851t0mlm9c1amafmqrx6dll

 

 

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

AGG gets seperation? since when? lolol. He's basically Josh Doctson 2.0, maybe a little bit better at most.

He seems to have some potential to win on slants. You can have some great success with running slants, go routes, and be average at a few other routes when combined with his size and high point ability. 

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

This discussion is pointless. They are gonna keep 3 qbs and I suppose you know more than Ron and the entire braintrust on the team. 

Weird flex, but ok. No need to get all testy because we differ in opinions. 

[skinsfan93]

2 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

 Covid practice squad rules.

 

• Up to six players per team with no limitations as to their number of earned accrued seasons

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-practice-squad-salaries-rules-2021/1wt851t0mlm9c1amafmqrx6dll

 

 

 

Thanks. I guess Allen is eligible for the PS but I think he will get claimed. Look at Josh Rosen getting picked up right away and he is awful. 

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Thanks. I guess Allen is eligible for the PS but I think he will get claimed. Look at Josh Rosen getting picked up right away and he is awful. 

Rosen got claimed because McCarron went down and the only other QB they had on the roster was a 2021 UDFA.

[skinsfan93]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Rosen got claimed because McCarron went down and the only other QB they had on the roster was a 2021 UDFA.

Yes but Atlanta is gonna keep 3 qbs even before McCarron got hurt. That kid Franks looks pretty good though. 

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Yes but Atlanta is gonna keep 3 qbs even before McCarron got hurt. That kid Franks looks pretty good though. 

Sure, I think in that case in makes sense. A vet starter, an experienced back-up and a young kid with potential. I don't know if any of our three QBs fit into that latter category but I guess it depends on how you view Kyle. If you think he's got the potential to be something special then keep him. I personally just see him as a plug and play option that you hope never has to start and hence don't see a need to keep him around. 

[method man]

The idea no one would pick up Kyle Allen off waivers is silly. His injury leaves a question mark but he has proven himself to be at least a solid NFL backup. Patriots were on on him last year. They would claim Allen as their #3 in a heartbeat

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, method man said:

The idea no one would pick up Kyle Allen off waivers is silly. His injury leaves a question mark but he has proven himself to be at least a solid NFL backup. Patriots were on on him last year. They would claim Allen as their #3 in a heartbeat

Why? They have Cam, Mac and perennial Bellicheck love Brian Hoyer. Not to mention Stidham is still there.

[Ball Security]

Luke Wilson is a veteran TE that hit the waiver wire.

 

Lots of ES draft thread crushes and former Washington camp guys too.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

Luke Wilson is a veteran TE that hit the waiver wire.

 

Lots of ES draft thread crushes and former Washington camp guys too.

I thought he retired because of a heart issue.

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I thought he retired because of a heart issue.

Dunno.  He was on the list of Seattle cuts.  Presumably from today because I didn’t recall seeing on the list from 85-80.

[Silvernon]

4 hours ago, Ball Security said:

 

 

Wonder who he’s thinking of when he mentions 3 surprises.

Not sure what constitutes a surprise.  I’ll guess Bostic, Moreland and Sims.  Those would be surprises to me.

Moreland is the only one of those three that I see the team cutting. With McTyer concussed, he may have got lucky. 

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

Dunno.  He was on the list of Seattle cuts.  Presumably from today because I didn’t recall seeing on the list from 85-80.

He retired like 1 day after signing with Seattle lol

[sjinhan]

42 minutes ago, method man said:

The idea no one would pick up Kyle Allen off waivers is silly. His injury leaves a question mark but he has proven himself to be at least a solid NFL backup. Patriots were on on him last year. They would claim Allen as their #3 in a heartbeat

 

Maybe someone would pick up Kyle Allen but I would also say that we tend to over value our backup players a bit as well..  Ashburn syndrome.  

 

Anyways as the other poster said... most likely Allen is not going to get cut but if he does.. I am not losing sleep over it.

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

He seems to have some potential to win on slants. You can have some great success with running slants, go routes, and be average at a few other routes when combined with his size and high point ability. 

Yes. The Shanahan WCO comes to mind. A few of the high-use routes he would do well at. 

 

As far as the argument of AGG vs Milne. I appreciate the depth of the arguments, but it's a question of rarity. Few receivers of AGG's size and it matters. All there is to it. 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On point here, people who covered the team said that Rivera suggested AGG had a bad first preseason game but improved after.  According to some he was on the bubble then but now not as much so because he improved.  It doesn't mean that him being on the bubble previously was a lie.  It's just changing data, that's all.  

 

On the same point, Hemingway looked good in practice.  I saw it to an extent too.  Then he played poorly in a preseason game, got a concussion, and things changed.  That's what happens in camp.  It doesn't mean that Hemingway looked good early in camp was a fantasy.  I saw for myself Hemingway played a ton with the 2nd team back then.  Things change. 

 

I don't think the roster status of players actually change as much as the reporters think it does.  Again, I could be totally wrong, but I don't think Gandy-Golden was ever in danger of getting cut barring serious injury.  Conversely, I think Hemingway was always on the bubble, but the beat reporters saw him practicing with the second team a lot and assumed that meant he was the likeliest candidate for the back up job.  I think that Bates and Reyes were always the two the staff intended to keep, and to prove the point Reyes got a concussion too and that didn't get him cut, despite him ostensibly being further away from contributing.  Hence my comment about the beat reporters vastly overselling their ability to determine what the coaches are thinking about the roster form observing the way they have the players practice.  The coaches are much more opaque than that, and their practice and game decisions are way more complex.  I would bet anything that one of the biggest factors in determining their depth chart and the Final 53 comes down to their conversations with other coaches and FO people about who they like and who might get poached if cut, and those are conversations that the beat reporters are not privy to.

 

I'm not really a Gandy-Golden guy or a Milne guy TBH.  Neither were big on my radar pre-draft, and I was annoyed on draft day 2020 that we picked Gandy-Golden over Tyler Johnson and Isaiah Hodgins, who were my favorite WRs still on the board by far.  I even liked Cephus and Peoples-Jones over him too.  I wouldn't necessarily project Gandy-Golden to be a starting caliber WR, I just think he's a clear-cut better prospect than Milne is.  I think he has a chance to stay outside, I do think he can and does beat a decent press and get inside or outside leverage with a few steps and a viable throwing window on a vertical route from an X alignment, and I don't think that's true about Milne.  IMO Milne has little chance of playing outside in the NFL.   I went back over Gandy-Golden's cut ups and liked him better after doing so.  I did the same for Milne and liked him less.  I don't like his ability to separate against man coverage--especially press-man--from an inside or outside alignment.  In the Boise State game, he basically did not get open against any man coverage and his separation came from running through busted cover 2 and 3 seams and scramble drill plays.  I don't think he's a routine playmaker like @Malapropismic Depository said, I think his bread and butter is that he's a grinder with super strong hands and great concentration for looking in the ball and hanging on in traffic, or laying out for low and away throws.  TBH I feel like he's kind of like James Proche with less play strength, a decent project with one viable niche and one really pronounced strength for him to make his money.

 

That said, I do think he's a worthy prospect, and I much prefer they keep Milne to keeping Cam Sims and especially DeAndre Carter.  If I were the HC, I would not cut Milne.  Carter would be long gone before I'd cut Milne.  Even if I heard he would be safe on the PS, I wouldn't cut him because I want to start his development this year.  I believe we should be developing all three of Brown, Gandy-Golden, and Milne ASAP, and ideally, they're my second string behind Samuel, Terry, and Humphrey.  But it's not my job that's in trouble if I put two rookies and a lightly used second year player on the field and can't run a basically competent passing offense in an NFL game, so I understand why the coaches are trying to stagger the WR depth chart with more experience.  I just don't think the stakes are that high this season because I think the offense is bad, and I'd be taking the long view of using this year as a developmental one for any decent prospect we have on that side of the ball.

 

 

[moondog]

Why is everyone so up in arms about Allen? Lol. 
 

He has no trade value but he does have value. More so to us then other teams because he knows the offense. I get trying to play games with roster spots and put him on the PS and maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t. 
 

But think about this - Fitz has been a very healthy guy throughout his career but is also 37. If he misses any time, what’s the over/under on how long Heinicke (regardless of how good or not good you think he can be) can stay healthy?

 

Because if Fitz goes down I would feel much better knowing we spent a roster spot on Allen and he’s available should Heinicke get hurt then, say, cutting Allen to keep 7 receivers. 
 

You’d be hard pressed to convince me to only keep 2 QB’s when one shows a tendency of being injury prone and playing in a way that’ll get him hurt. Allen ain’t great, he’s also about as good as we can do for a #3 this year and I think for the above reason he’s much more valuable then a 7th receiver or 10th DB or whatever it is folks are so worried about. 

[Going Commando]

Been meaning to say that two guys who are popular with the fan base that I just can't see it with are Logan Thomas and Ereck Flowers.  I've gone back over them to try and see what I'm missing multiple times, and I just don't think they're good.  IMO Logan Thomas plays with a functionally tiny catch radius and is allergic to making plays off his frame in traffic, and he is a lazy blocker with disappointing physicality.  I'm a Tech fan who actually enjoyed watching him play QB, I want to believe in Thomas, and I just can't see it.  I think John Bates is already better than him, especially as a run blocker, and I think Reyes is already way tougher and more physical than Thomas and his ceiling absolutely dwarfs his.

 

IMO, we have two legitimately exciting TE prospects on the roster now, and I'm hoping Logan Thomas doesn't get in their way.  To me he's a placeholder until our much better options are ready to go.  And to me, the reason we're not looking at John Bates in the same way we're looking at Dyami Brown, Ben St Juste, Sam Cosmi, and Jamin Davis is because we are under the misconception that Logan Thomas is actually good and he's in the way of Bates playing a bigger role right away.

 

With Flowers, I think Schweitzer is clearly better than him.  I want to write Schweitzer off because he's an older vet with no upside left, but I keep coming away impressed with his film.  The guy is arguably the most physical member of our OLine.  He's an ass kicker and he should be starting at LG IMO.  This OL and TE group is begging to run a Shanahan style offensive scheme with a pounding outside zone run game.  Flowers isn't bad, he just doesn't really dominate.  He's got elite length and strength for a guard and yet IDLs are forever getting into his numbers and neck because he is so passive off the snap.  And he's a big time lunger.  If he had Schweitzer's aggressiveness and approach to the game, he would be such a good player.  But at this point I think he is what he is.  He shouldn't be starting for us IMO, but I'm fine with him as an expensive back up.

[Going Commando]

Anyone read Ben Standig's agent survey article part II section about the Cowboys?  I thought it germane to our discussion of them in this thread: https://theathletic.com/2772954/2021/08/25/nfl-agent-survey-part-ii-33-reps-on-jerry-jones-jon-gruden-urban-meyer-and-fixing-the-nfl/

 

Quote

1. What’s your sense of the Cowboys’ organization and management under Jerry Jones now that it’s been 25 years since they won the Super Bowl?

• “The best ownership group in sports. Worst head coach in sports. Anything that begins and ends with mismanagement talk begins with who they hired as head coach. But nobody treats their players like them, has the facilities like them, is willing to spend the money to make sure everyone is the happiest. Nobody markets their organization better. …

“They’re on a different plane when it comes to the business of football. They don’t win (big), but they don’t have to. There will be 100,000 people at every game. They will still make money all day long. They just crush it. He’s the best and worst (owner) at the same time, but when have you ever met a player who didn’t want to play for Dallas? I’ve had players leave for other teams and then become miserable. Football is tertiary to the Dallas Cowboys organization. It’s the business of football, not the game of football. His biggest issue is he loves to be loved.”

• “They will always have good players because players want to play there for reasons like no state taxes, but there are too many players there for the wrong reasons. There’s a high floor with the Cowboys, but it’s close to the ceiling.”

 

To me this sums up the Cowboys and Texas football writ large perfectly.  Elite at the business and mythos of football, mediocre rich boy ******* at actual football who are beholden to the Buddy Garrity boosters of the Texas football world.  They ain't ****.

[TheShredder]

6 hours ago, moondog said:

Because if Fitz goes down I would feel much better knowing we spent a roster spot on Allen and he’s available should Heinicke get hurt then, say, cutting Allen to keep 7 receivers. 

The East Rivals would sign him just for the intel and so WFT couldn't have that insurance and luxury.  Then they'd just head hunt the QB to win the division easier.

[Chris 44]

8 hours ago, sjinhan said:

Oh shoot! Your right!   Better keep Montez as well!

Yeah they might give away our secrets, like perhaps they should "target Apke"!

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cut both, get 2 spots. If you could get Allen to the PS, fine.  But I’m not sure he’d love that. 

 

Ok, but your original comment was you didn't want them to keep Allen taking up multiple roster spots. But fair enough. 

 

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

To your $850k practice squad player comment, I don’t think it works that way.  They would cut the player, the contract is gone, then they offer whatever to resign them to the PS.  

Maybe.  But he’s a QB who would have to learn the system in-flight.  As I said, I think he’ll get picked up after an injury or two.  But I think he’s clear waivers and last a few weeks. 

That really was a John Maddenism.  

 

It's not a direct carry over of the contract. However, I am not sure he would sign back here for less than his minimum contract. 

 

It's all moot though. They are keeping him on the 53. Nothing coming out of the team suggests anything else. 

 

[Koolblue13]

9 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Because if you're down to your third string QB then your season is basically over. You're basically sacrificing a more qualified guy, whomever that is, in the hopes of a worst case scenario. 

Eagles recently won a SB with their 2nd string QB and 3rd string RB as starters.

 

We have a fragile Heinicke bottle behind Fitz. Allen has proven he can play. 

 

Our depth is what's going to keep us competitive in December. Allen is making the team.