Chiropractors,, pro and cons?

[Bang]

So my back is killing me. A few weeks ago I thought i was having a heart attack, had every symptom. Spent a day in the ER and found out heart and lungs are good.

It's my bed,, my wife likes a hard bed, my body hates it. I feel as if my ribs are half size too small and my shoulders are all out of whack. I can't take a deep breath, it hurts. I'm not laid up, I am moving around and all, but I'm in pain most of the day, feel like i'm just hemmed in.

So I am going to try a chiropractor. I've never been, and it is purely out of fear. i see someone yanking a neck like that, and i don't want any part of it.

But I can't make this go away on it's own, and according to the hospital, there is nothing internally wrong.

 

So Chiropractic..  yay, nay? Pros, Cons?

 

Thanks

~Bound up Bang

Edited April 12, 2021 by Bang

[skinny21]

17 minutes ago, Bang said:

So my back is killing me. A few weeks ago I thought i was having a heart attack, had every symptom. Spent a day in the ER and found out heart and lungs are good.

It's my bed,, my wife likes a hard bed, my body hates it. I feel as if my ribs are half size too small and my shoulders are all out of whack. I can't take a deep breath, it hurts. I'm not laid up, I am moving around and all, but I'm in pain most of the day, feel like i'm just hemmed in.

So I am going to try a chiropractor. I've never been, and it is purely out of fear. i see someone yanking a neck like that, and i don't want any part of it.

But I can't make this go away on it's own, and according to the hospital, there is nothing internally wrong.

 

So Chiropractic..  yay, nay? Pros, Cons?

 

Thanks

~Bound up Bang

Our trips (wife and I) include massages, which is pretty sweet. They wanna relax your body to do the adjustment.  Adjustment itself can be a little nerve wracking, but just gotta relax when they tell you.  I have heard some strange tales though.

[skinsmarydu]

My massage therapist (that I'll be seeing tomorrow) used to work for mine and is still a patient of his...and he is a client of hers.  She recommended him to me back in 2013 or so when I threw my back out and was bent over for 10 days...he had me moving much better and upright after the second visit.  It's purely a maintenance thing now, I haven't been in a while because I haven't been working...I've been seeing my therapist once a month for the last few because I woke up twisted funny on SB Sunday.   

I've only had 2 different doctors since 1996, but one thing I do know...never put heat on your back unless a doctor tells you to.  You want those muscles to contract, not expand.  (Heat expands, cold contracts.) 

Hope you get better soon!

[Kurd Cudins]

Try a Sleep Number bed

[PleaseBlitz]

Chiropractic is a scam. Go to a physical therapist. 
 

Edit:  Advice from someone who has lived with 3 herniated discs for 15 years and has tried everything, including chiropractic. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by PleaseBlitz

[Kurd Cudins]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Chiropractic is a scam. Go to a physical therapist. 

I recently did PT at OrthoCarolina which was supposed to be a really good place, but now I'm convinced PT has become a scam too. Very little warmup and no ice down/massage after. There was one older woman is a doctors coat walking around and the rest were twelve year olds just out of PT school. my co-pay was $70

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, Kurd Cudins said:

I recently did PT at OrthoCarolina which was supposed to be a really good place, but now I'm convinced PT has become a scam too. Very little warmup and no ice down/massage after. There was one older woman is a doctors coat walking around and the rest were twelve year olds just out of PT school. my co-pay was $70

I think PT is pretty dependent on the individual place and provider. I went to Pivot around DC for awhile, same thing, recent grads just punching the clock. The place ive gone to off and on now for the past 6 years is a small place with really good people, plus the one old guy that is basically a PT witch doctor. 
 

If they do dry needling, you are probably on the right track. 

[Kurd Cudins]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I think PT is pretty dependent on the individual place and provider. I went to Pivot around DC for awhile, same thing, recent grads just punching the clock. The place ive gone to off and on now for the past 6 years is a small place with really good people, plus the one old guy that is basically a PT witch doctor. 
 

If they do dry needling, you are probably on the right track. 

Good to know. Best physical therapist I've ever had was a former D1 basketball player whose knowledge of kinesiology, acupuncture and dry needling was astounding. Doctors here in NC just aren't as good. This new place seemed like a product of today's "get em in get em out" philosophy.

[PokerPacker]

23 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Chiropractic is a scam. Go to a physical therapist. 
 

Edit:  Advice from someone who has lived with 3 herniated discs for 15 years and has tried everything, including chiropractic. 

This.  Anything that Chiropractors do that are of actual medicinal value will be done by actual doctors.  Plus actual doctors will do more that is of actual value.  Go for the PT, not the woo woo quack quack "subluxations cause all disease" peddlers.

[Die Hard]

As a massage therapist and osteopath in private practice for 13 years, I have some thoughts about all physical interventions.

 

No profession is a scam. There are scammers in every profession. No 2 professionals, even in the same profession, are alike.

 

Dont be married to a profession. You have to find what works best for you. And that means trying things out and formulating your own opinions.

 

The whack-and-crackers (chiros) do help people. Not everybody wants to be lying on a table for 60 minutes. And if you actually understood the science, you’d realize that treatment doesn’t need to be X minutes to be effective. There is a physiological and principled explanation for short treatments.

 

I’ll end on this. I had an identical situation with my wife/bed. I ended up sleeping on a couch for 7 years. I finally sucked it up and bought an adjustable bed with memory foam mattress ($6k) 4 years ago. Best purchase I ever made.

 

However, if the density of the mattress (hard or soft) is causing you symptoms like that, you need to think bigger picture. Focus on your health.

 

Because if physical therapy helps you.... then it’ll be a lifelong dependency. Unless you’re ok with that.

[Jabbyrwock]

2 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

No profession is a scam. 

 

 

I'll take politicians for 100 dollars Aaron.

[Die Hard]

44 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

I'll take politicians for 100 dollars Aaron.

They don’t teach business in school. They teach anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, and treatment protocols. And we’re all using the same medical textbooks.

 

Professionals learn ‘business’ (practice building) on their own. So if anything is a scam, that’s on the professional. Not the institution.

 

Every profession/industry has scammers.

 

But writing off entire professions/services because of anecdotal stories.... you’re going to miss out on a lot of good and helpful things in life. But hey, that’s your choice.

And as a complementary healthcare provider, it isn’t unexpected that most people come into our practices with some fears and doubts. You should. And a good practitioner will address them.... if you actually give them a chance.

 

To me, the problem isn’t finding an efficacious modality. It’s about finding the ‘good’ ones. Just like finding a good mechanic. It’s often trial and error, but start with referrals from trusted family and friends. And be willing to try different professionals.

 

Too funny.... I just remembered I’m writing a chapter of my book on finding a HCP. 😂

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Die Hard

[China]

I was long hesitant about going to a chiropractor.  Then I had a problem with pain in my neck/shoulder radiating down my arm.  At first I went to a clinic and when I told them it hurt when I turned my head, the doctor literally said "Then don't turn your head."  Flabbergasted I left, and the problem eventually subsided.  It recurred several years later at which point I went to my PCP.  She prescribed some medications, but they were not effective.  Frustrated I went to a chiropractor recommended to me.  He immediately diagnosed it as a pinched ulnar nerve.  He did treatment and prescribed exercises and treatments I could do on my own at home.  After following his advice and treatments the matter resolved.

 

He was also equally effective in helping me with my plantar fasciitis, which my doctor couldn't resolve.  Over the years he has been successful in helping me treat various strains and other ailments as they have occurred.

 

There was a time for a few months when he was unavailable, and I went to another chiropractor at his practice.  She was not as effective, nor in my opinion as knowledgeable.  I say this as a way of saying chiropractors can be good and helpful, but get a good reputable one.  I got mine via a recommendation, and he is so popular he is no longer taking new patients (I'm glad I got in with him when I did).  He also has done therapy/chiropractics for various sports teams and athletes, so knows what he is doing and is experienced with a variety of ailments/injuries.

 

Again, find a good one and you're golden; but it may take recommendations and/or trial and error to find the right one. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by China

[The 12th Commandment]

After years of skepticism and hours in PT, I finally went to a recommended chiropractor.  Lower back issues are a continual problem due to somewhat forced inactivity and muscular issues (ms).  I get months of relief everytime I go.  It's cheap compared to pt, there's never a wait and I leave feeling better.  All I can ask for. I love the electric stimulators with warm towels, gets my back loose as a goose.

[mistertim]

I think there are some types of chiropractors who focus only on what's actually scientific. But from my understanding they're few and far between. If you see one, as soon as they start talking about "subluxations" and how it causes all sorts of diseases...congratulations, you've found yourself a pseudoscience quack and should run. 

[The Sisko]

It sounds like you’re trying to treat the symptoms instead of the root cause @Bang. If your bed or mattress is causing you those kinds of issues, it needs to go. Fortunately nowadays, there are a lot of options, many of which will deliver to your door with a “try it out” guarantee.

 

I’m pretty cheap. I get it from being born to a mother who grew up in the last days of Nazi Germany and raised by a depression era grandmother. Both of them were the epitome of the waste not want not ideal. I started having numbness and pain in my neck a couple of years ago. I thought about seeing a doctor or PT, but then I started thinking about my 20 year old pillow that was about as flat as a pancake. I looked at a number of options, then bit my lip as both my grandmother and mother spun like tops in their graves while I dropped over $100 on a new pillow. A $100 on a freaking pillow. I felt like a total rube...until it arrived. After only a couple of nights, I knew it was perhaps the best c-note I ever spent.

 

And FWIW, nobody, I mean nobody but me is cracking my back and/or neck.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Not my story, but I sometimes play golf with a group of older guys - one of them is I'd guess mid 60's, he's overweight, smokes, etc.  So he's not in the best of shape to begin with.  He's damn near ready to call it quits  about 7 holes in.  He started seeing a chiropractor over the winter.  His insurance would only pay for 5 visits.  He said he went 4 times and nothing helpful at all, and on the 5th visit he asked the chiropractor 'What are we doing here? Nothings working, and I'm not going to pay out of my own pocket to come back.' and miraculously, whatever he did in that particular session, has this old man playing pain free.  It's evident in his swing and ability to play without needing to quit on holes and sit in the cart.  Made a believer out of me.

[Bang]

Good responses folks, thank you all very much.
I do know the bed is the root, but I'm in process of selling my house and wanting to move, so i'm going to hold on til then.

 

Thursday at 11, I'm going to give it a go. BFS, my insurance will cover 12, but maybe i'll tell him it'll only cover 3  visits. 

 

I've considered a sleep number bed.. Granted her side will be firm mine will be soft, but the transition from one to the other in them middle of the bed, , does it feel like a shelf in the middle?

 

~Bang

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bang

[Die Hard]

John, because your episode is sub-acute (< 3 months), your symptoms are still fresh. So you’re going to find that treatment should take about 2-3 weeks for most, if not all, to subside.

 

Always outliers though, sometimes sooner, but 1 out of 5 ppl become chronic (> 3 months).

 

But if this is the first time you ever had these symptoms, it’ll likely be on the shorter side. The sooner you get in for treatment, the better the outcome.

 

It’s going to be fine. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Die Hard

[Destino]

I have a herniated disc in my lower back.  I spent a year in pain until one chiro in my area manage to get me moving again, but I went to a dozen different options before landing on one that did the trick.  Everyone’s experience is different with these sorts of injuries.This is what I’d recommend. 

 

1- get an MRI.  demand it.  accept not substitute, it’s the only way to see what’s really going on.

2- if you have permanent damage to your spine, what you’re going to be doing is searching for what makes you feel better and keeps you feeling good the longest.

3- just say no to addictive drugs. Back pain is chronic pain, you don’t want to come out of this an addict.  Strong prescription anti inflammatories are probably a good idea early on though

4- Try things like chiropractic or PT or massage until you find one that works for you.  They’re individually, not all the same.  It’s not just a question of profession.  I personally recommend one that has a very strong TENS device in their office.  I love those things.

No option will likely provide quick permanent relief.  When you find something that works, stick with it.  Weight loss, if needed, better posture, and strengthening the muscles around the area. 
 

Good luck!  

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@BangMy wife is a chiro in NOVA. But she focuses very holistically on full body health, and is basically a hybrid PT/Chiro ... she's got additional certifications and treats her patients for 30 minutes and 60 minute first visit and treats the entire time. Lots of diff. types of chiros, some that are straight rack and crack (most of them honestly where you're in an out in 5 minutes), or those that take time to treat the whole body.

 

By and large chiropractors are more functional medicine focused but some old school ones or those that come from various schools think an adjustment can cure every ailment. They can certainly help, but you should try to find someone that will treat the whole body, and not just adjust you.

 

Unfortunatley, most of those don't take insurance, because insurance only reimburses for soft tissue work and an adjustment, and chiros cant really make much money if they take insurance and really spend time with a patient. My wife takes insurance, but it's the bane of her existence.

 

Look for a chiropractor that is ART (Active Release Technique) ... all NFL CHiros have this certification and it's a soft tissue therapy in addition to chiro. Try and avoid a chiropractor that says "come 3x a week for 6 weeks and pay me $2000 and I'll fix you" ... my wife hates that ****. Her goal is to fix WHY you're feeling pain, and get you treated and released and feeling better after 2-4 appointments with tools to prevent further inflamation.

 

@Bang my wife won't adjust necks if it's not necessary. A lot of Chiropractors will do it regardless as best practice. You can certainly say no to it, advocate for yourself. But you should try and go to one that listens to you, and doesn't force a treatment plan on you. Where do you live? I can send some your way based on what I know to be good traits.

Edited April 13, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[TheDoyler23]

I'd consider getting a mattress topper to soften it up on your side until you move and get a new bed could make a difference.  It's probably not one thing, but a combination of things. The bed, stress, changes from the pandemic, age, etc. 

 

Having some back issues myself, meeting with an Orthopedist, getting some anti-inflammatories and doing a little PT worked well for me.

I still do the stretches and have discussed my workstation with an occupational therapist in the family. I sit in a task chair that forces me to use my core and I have a desk topper so I'll stand for a few stretched per day as well. 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

14 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Chiropractic is a scam. Go to a physical therapist. 
 

Edit:  Advice from someone who has lived with 3 herniated discs for 15 years and has tried everything, including chiropractic. 

 

Definitely some scams out there, but try not to paint a broad brush on that. My wife is  a chiro and has to fight this stigna constantly, and she's one of the good ones that is more a PT/Chiro hybrid that spends 30 minutes per patient.

 

My sister just signed up for treatment down in southern VA and asked my wife for advice. My wife straight up told her she wouldn't see this guy because he was offering her 3 months treatment for like $2,400. But if she signed up for 3 months he'd cut it to $1800. And that stuff is maddening. And despite this, my sister still signed up because he was a nice guy and others down there had sworn by him. But NOBODY should have you sign of for a damn treatment plan up front when they have NO idea how your body will react to the treatment. I'm not sure it's a scam ... because it works for some people. But I would shop around and find someone that advocates for you as a patient and your recovery, not somone focused on getting you in the door and paying $$.

 

There's a lot of $$ to be made by "racking and cracking" and a lot of chiropractors veer into that even with good intentions. My wife makes way less than she could because she enjoys getting people to feel better, and you just have to find the chiros out there who are more of that ilk. She's booked solid each week and treats 30 people a week ... she could work the same hours and treat 120 a week and make 4x the money. It's a crock. But so is our insurance system, and a lot of chiros have to leave insurance because the reimbursement rates for most (Cigna, United) are ****.

Edited April 13, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[The 12th Commandment]

Another thing I'd mention.  I was always a stomach sleeper.  Since I've grown a little middle aged paunch, that had to change.  I'm a side sleeper now.  The occasions when perhaps I've had a couple and revert to my stomach always end in a morning with a stiff back.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If a chiropractor takes insurance they get $26 for each adjustment and I think $42 for multiple adjustments. This can be done/take less than 10 minutes.

 

Chiropractors/PTs get around $25 for muscle work (ART, PT stuff) in 15 minute increments. My wife can do hands on muscle work for 30 minutes with one adjustment and make $60-90 or so a patient from a combo of insurance/copay. She had to drop CIgna because the max out she could get per patient was $34 for 30 minutes, and it was not sustainable.

 

But if you can see 4-5 patients in that same 30 minute interval and make $200 ... well ... you see why most are in and out practices. $400 an hour + v. $120-150 an hour of treatment time.

 

@Kurd Cudinsthis is just how insurance operates. See my example for chiro and insurance. PTs cant make money unless they move through patients quickly. It's also why the best PTs are the ones that will see you 3-4 times and be done, but you'll be paying out of pocket for their services because they aren't constrained by the insurance system. My wife will eventually move to cash based practice because not only does she make less taking insurance, she spends about an hour doing paperwork for every hour that she treats. CIgna was the absolute worst. Every patient was 30 minutes paperwork for 30 minutes of treatment and she'd get $34.

Edited April 13, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins