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The Guardian: Joe Biden's gender discrimination order offers hope for young trans athletes - Discussion Thread

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By TD_washingtonredskins
in The Tailgate

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
On 7/7/2022 at 10:45 AM, bcl05 said:

Also, there are tons of biological factors that give advantages or disadvantages to certain athletes, why is gender/sex different?  


becsuse if there was no separation it’d like be all dominated by boys with few girls. 
 

I don’t know what the right answer is but we need to at least recognize what the intent was, and work from there. 
 

 

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted

For anyone following the World Athletics Championships currently being held in Eugene there are two female athletes with 46 XY DSD who are excluded from competing in 400m to 1500m because of testosterone levels exceeding a threshold, and have switched events. Semenya (South Africa) is competing in the 5000m rather than her preferred 800m while Seyni (Niger) switched from the 400m to 200m. Seyni just made the final with a remarkable finish that anecdotally suggests that she has an unfair strength advantage relative to her non XY competition. 

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

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Posted

Tonight in the World Athletics Women’s 3000m Steeplechase an Ethiopian DSD athlete with no background in the event won silver. She was prohibited from competing in her preferred 800m event due to IAAF regulations.

 

Semenya was unsuccessful in the 5000m.

 

Even with regulations banning DSD athletes from 400m-1500m events, DSD athletes continue to be disproportionately getting on the podium relative to their participation numbers.

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GhostofSparta

GhostofSparta

Posted
Posted

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/8/17/23310668/school-investigates-female-athlete-transgender-complaint

 

Quote

After their daughters were beat by a girl in sports, Utah parents triggered investigation into whether she was transgender

School opened girl’s enrollment records dating back to kindergarten to confirm she was female, Utah High School Activities Association representative tells legislators

 

After one competitor “outclassed” the rest of the field in a girls’ state-level competition last year, the parents of the competitors who placed second and third lodged a complaint with the Utah High School Activities Association calling into question the winner’s gender.

David Spatafore, the UHSAA’s legislative representative, addressing the Utah Legislature’s Education Interim Committee on Wednesday, said the association — without informing the student or family members about the inquiry — asked the student’s school to investigate.

 

The school examined the students’ enrollment records.

 

“The school went back to kindergarten and she’d always been a female,” he said.

 

...

 

Spatafore said the association has received other complaints, some that said “that female athlete doesn’t look feminine enough.”

Ah yes: "That high school athlete is better at sports than my daughter and, you know, really doesn't wear enough makeup during games. Must be one of those 'trans athletes' I've heard about because that's the only way somebody could be better than my precious child."

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted

Genocide?

 

Had to go to that page to try to understand what Hamilton means by "gender reassignment procedures", last paragraph talks about:

 

"surgery and puberty blocking hormones"

 

Much research shows the brain doesn't finish fully developing until mid-20s, so I may not agree with all the language in the bill or Hamilton's reasoning, but I'm open to the conversation on banning gender reassignment surgery and puberty hormone blockers until 25.

 

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GhostofSparta

GhostofSparta

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Much research shows the brain doesn't finish fully developing until mid-20s, so I may not agree with all the language in the bill or Hamilton's reasoning, but I'm open to the conversation on banning gender reassignment surgery and puberty hormone blockers until 25.

OK, so are people adults at 18, 21, or 25? I know the easy way out is to just keep doing things the way they are, but there are so many different ages at which you can make permanent, life-altering decisions that are completely arbitrary.

 

At 18, in almost every state, you're "mature" enough to, all on your own, drive a motor vehicle that weights several tones and can go easily over 100 mph, a situation in which it's extremely easy to cause expensive property damage, life-altering injuries, or even death to yourself and others. You're "mature" enough to vote, even if it's for somebody like Trump who will **** up the country for the next several decades of you life with laws and lifetime Judiciary appointments. You're "mature" enough to take out a crippling 6 figure loan that will take you decades to pay off to attend college, which you've most likely been told your entire life that you're supposed to attend. You're even "mature" enough to join the armed forces and get PTSD, a life-altering injury, or even die half a world away from everyone and everything you know. But despite all these responsibilities, you're not old enough to drink, smoke, or take hormone blockers?

 

At 21, you are now old and "mature" enough to legally begin a life-long addiction to alcohol and tobacco. Even though these substances are know to cause chemical dependencies, we're still fine with letting people have access to them despite now knowing that the brain is still 4 years away from full maturity.

 

But hormone blockers? Oh dear heavens! The effects of those things are dangerous, and you need to be at least 25 with your fully developed brain to be able to calmly and rationally make a decision which will have long-term consequences!

 

 

Now, I don't know the right call. I'll admit that. But it seems like suddenly making gender transition the most importantest life-changing decision that must be held off until at least your brain has reached its final form because THAT choice is the only one that everyone's suddenly worried about the permanency of? It's so transparently biased and stupid. There were already 2 other life-altering milestones that disagreed with each other, adding a 3rd one much later is just stupid and even more arbitrary.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)

@GhostofSparta

 

A sexual transition process is far more permanent a decision on the individual that does it then signing a contract to join the military. Not everyone that goes in the military comes out with PTSD or dead, most don't. 

 

Given were talking about something that is occurring in the mind, it makes sense NOT asking what an adult is, but waiting until the brain is finished developing before helping people make a permanent change like that.

 

I've know at least one family member that when she was a teenager was so far down this road she was insisting her mom call her her son.  She currently identifies as a female and is married to a man. 

 

This isn't about the definition of an adult or maturity level at all, this is very specific to the transgender discuss and sexual transition process.  It's easier for a teenager to do this then rent a car in their own, many car rentals also look for 25, though for different reasons.

 

There's a pretty good Through the Wormhole episode about "More then Two Sexes", that goes in depth on transgender, how many look in the mirror and insist that's not them, like they in the wrong body, and there's research into the brain about that.

Edited by Renegade7
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The Evil Genius

The Evil Genius

Posted
Posted

Of course, prohibiting people under 25 medical care to transition can and will create more lifelong mental health disorders for those people under 25. The stress and stigma of being prohibited to transition isn't something to just ignore.

 

Fwiw I generally side with medicine and if the AMA thinks these anti- transition positions are wrong and more harmful to minors, then I believe them. 

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Of course, prohibiting people under 25 medical care to transition can and will create more lifelong mental health disorders for those people under 25. The stress and stigma of being prohibited to transition isn't something to just ignore.

 

Fwiw I generally side with medicine and if the AMA thinks these anti- transition positions are wrong and more harmful to minors, then I believe them. 

 

This is actually pretty controversial in the medical community, there isn't wide-spread agreement in this yet.  For example:

 

Quote

However, the use of puberty blockers to treat transgender children is what’s considered an “off label” use of the medication — something that hasn’t been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. And doctors say their biggest concern is about how long children stay on the medication, because there isn’t enough research into the effects of stalling puberty at the age when children normally go through it

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/

Edited by Renegade7
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