The Trump Riot Aftermath (Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes found guilty of seditious conspiracy. Proud Boys join the club)

[Bloodytusk]

7 minutes ago, Sniffler said:

According to Merriam-Webster:

Propaganda is today most often used in reference to political statements, but the word comes to our language through its use in a religious context. The Congregatio de propaganda fide (“Congregation for propagating the faith”) was an organization established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV as a means of furthering Catholic missionary activity. The word propaganda is from the ablative singular feminine of propogandus, which is the gerundive of the Latin propagare, meaning “to propagate.” The first use of the word propaganda (without the rest of the Latin title) in English was in reference to this Catholic organization. It was not until the beginning of the 19th century that it began to be used as a term denoting ideas or information that are of questionable accuracy as a means of advancing a cause.

 

I'm not too sure it's ever been used in neutral context. So, as an educator myself, it could be fair to say your professor may have misspoke.

Fair enough.  I don’t think his posts are of questionable fact it’s more about the fact that I think the way he posts is manipulative. 

[Sniffler]

20 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I have heard people talking about propaganda that can be used for good purposes. For example, people talk about Uncle Sam in WWI or the WWII efforts of Captain America, Wonder Woman, Hollywood war movies, etc. that were clearly propaganda efforts to help mobilize the nation's will against Germany.

 

So, I can sort of see his/his professor's point. Still, like the word myth, the meaning definitely has a tilt. Myth used to denote a different set of beliefs. These days, it means a belief in something that isn't true. Propaganda is generally viewed as a form of manipulation. As such, it's generally viewed in a negative fashion.

I agree with everything you've said, Burgold.

 

And, viewing the word propaganda as not "necessarily a dirty word" is accurate. It can be used to promote or persuade for positive reasons as well.

 

Bloodytusk, based on your reasoning, did you mean to use propaganda in the positive sense when responding to China?

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sniffler
Grammar

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Bloodytusk said:

Fair enough.  I don’t think his posts are of questionable fact it’s more about the fact that I think the way he posts is manipulative. 

Gonna have to explain that one

[Bloodytusk]

28 minutes ago, Sniffler said:

I agree with everything you've said, Burgold.

 

And, viewing the word propaganda as not "necessarily a dirty word" is accurate. It can be used to promote or persuade for positive reasons as well.

 

Bloodytusk, based on your reasoning, did you mean to use propaganda in the positive sense when responding to China?

I respect the way he posts I just think it’s manipulative in a biased way.  Simple as that. I think he would be a good at a job that required someone to sway peoples opinions to his side. I expect his actual day job is along those lines so it was partly a snide joke. I’m a centrist that lives in a romantic world where people could talk through their problems if they just understood their own biases and the way others think, but people aren’t like that and biased messaging is necessary. I just am wary of people that make an off topic forum for a football team into their personal blog. (Again my perception) Feel free to disagree with anything I say that’s just my viewpoint and I am merely human.

25 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Gonna have to explain that one

It feels like he uses the tailgate as his personal blog and Posts articles more than what is organic or natural.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Bloodytusk

[LD0506]

Ok Bt gets a cookie for the civilized response

[Sniffler]

29 minutes ago, Bloodytusk said:

I respect the way he posts I just think it’s manipulative in a biased way.  

First and foremost, thanks for taking the time to type out an explanation, as well as humoring my questions. 

 

Most people are biased. China is no different. He is very well respected and when presented with an argument, he will cite facts, sometimes intertwined with opinion. Often times, he posts articles to evoke conversation. But to claim that he manipulates anyone seems rather obtuse.

[Bloodytusk]

9 minutes ago, Sniffler said:

First and foremost, thanks for taking the time to type out an explanation, as well as humoring my questions. 

 

Most people are biased. China is no different. He is very well respected and when presented with an argument, he will cite facts, sometimes intertwined with opinion. Often times, he posts articles to evoke conversation. But to claim that he manipulates anyone seems rather obtuse.

Fair enough I could just be paranoid the way he posts is just strange to me.

[Bang]

1 minute ago, Bloodytusk said:

Fair enough I could just be paranoid the way he posts is just strange to me.

I find they typically remain under the constraint of the topic of the thread though. 
I can't blame him if he wants to post one side of it, he's not in any official position and is entitled to his opinion.

One thing hard in reading the 'conservative slant' on the news, is most of it has little to do with actual policy or anything debatable, it is often just angry harangues against whatever the left are doing. The GOP and it's propagandists have long since given up presenting many ideas. Their entire playbook is based on just keeping the finals holdouts as angry as possible for as many hours of the day as they can, and directing it toward their political enemies by any means necessary.

We've got plenty of people here who do post most of what is going on from a wide variety of sources, but there isn't anyone left to present much opposing thought, because the thought part is often missing.
I'd welcome it, but frankly, the current powers controlling the GOP are reprehensible, traitorous con artists bent on things that I (speaking only for me) find to be completely against what is "American". I am an old school conservative, but people like me have long since been abandoned by the GOP as it continues to fly full bore directly into insanity.

Give me more like Larry Hogan, who I think is a guy who can bring sanity back and present actual conservative philosophy that is not bent on the Bible and authoritarianism. We are missing this now, and we need it. This country has always done its best when there are both schools of actual thought determining a common ground to move forward.
Unfortunately, the right has abandoned this in favor of scorched-earth win-all-or-destroy-all mentality. Compromise is now weakness, when in fact it was always our greatest strength.

 

~Bang

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

21 minutes ago, Bloodytusk said:

Fair enough I could just be paranoid the way he posts is just strange to me.

You should see some of the stuff he posts in the non-political threads. Strange is an understatement.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[China]

1 hour ago, Bloodytusk said:

I respect the way he posts I just think it’s manipulative in a biased way.  Simple as that. I think he would be a good at a job that required someone to sway peoples opinions to his side. I expect his actual day job is along those lines so it was partly a snide joke.

 

I work as a dog walker.

 

[Bloodytusk]

7 minutes ago, Bang said:

I find they typically remain under the constraint of the topic of the thread though. 
I can't blame him if he wants to post one side of it, he's not in any official position and is entitled to his opinion.

One thing hard in reading the 'conservative slant' on the news, is most of it has little to do with actual policy or anything debatable, it is often just angry harangues against whatever the left are doing. The GOP and it's propagandists have long since given up presenting many ideas. Their entire playbook is based on just keeping the finals holdouts as angry as possible for as many hours of the day as they can, and directing it toward their political enemies by any means necessary.

We've got plenty of people here who do post most of what is going on from a wide variety of sources, but there isn't anyone left to present much opposing thought, because the thought part is often missing.
I'd welcome it, but frankly, the current powers controlling the GOP are reprehensible, traitorous con artists bent on things that I (speaking only for me) find to be completely against what is "American". I am an old school conservative, but people like me have long since been abandoned by the GOP as it continues to fly full bore directly into insanity.

Give me more like Larry Hogan, who I think is a guy who can bring sanity back and present actual conservative philosophy that is not bent on the Bible and authoritarianism. We are missing this now, and we need it. This country has always done its best when there are both schools of actual thought determining a common ground to move forward.
Unfortunately, the right has abandoned this in favor of scorched-earth win-all-or-destroy-all mentality. Compromise is now weakness, when in fact it was always our greatest strength.

 

~Bang

Your right. I’ve been In denial about the trumpkins for awhile and am just now coming around. I shouldn’t be surprised or get annoyed people are doing what they are doing. 

[Bang]

4 minutes ago, Bloodytusk said:

Your right. I’ve been In denial about the trumpkins for awhile and am just now coming around. I shouldn’t be surprised or get annoyed people are doing what they are doing. 

They've boiled it down pretty well, there isn't much left there who isn't either voting out of ancient habit (mindless) or out of belief in the current spew (fascist). I dropped off their rolls in about 2000, firmly unaffiliated. I've voted both ways, depending on the race and who's running. But not for national office for a while now. I think we are fast coming to a reckoning. 

Welcome to the group.

 

~Bang

[China]

Eastman provides new details of Trump’s direct role in legal effort to overturn election

 

John Eastman, the attorney who architected Donald Trump’s last-ditch legal strategy to overturn the 2020 election, revealed Friday that he routinely communicated with Trump either directly or via “six conduits” during the chaotic weeks that preceded the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

 

In a late-night court filing urging a federal judge to maintain the confidentiality of his work for Trump, Eastman provided the clearest insight yet into the blizzard of communications between Trump, his top aides, his campaign lawyers and the army of outside attorneys who were working to help reverse the outcome in a handful of states won by Joe Biden.

 

The filing also describes the direct role of Trump himself in developing strategy, detailing “two hand-written notes from former President Trump about information that he thought might be useful for the anticipated litigation.” Those notes are among the documents Eastman is seeking to shield via attorney-client privilege. Eastman said he would also speak directly with Trump by phone throughout his legal challenges to the election.

 

Eastman described these contacts and records as part of an effort to prevent the Jan. 6 select committee from accessing 600 emails that describe his efforts to build Trump’s legal gambit to reverse the 2020 election outcome — and, when that failed, urge state legislatures to simply overturn the results themselves. He argues that the documents are protected by attorney-client and attorney work product privileges that Congress has no business probing, even as the panel investigates the circumstances that led a mob of Trump supporters to attack the Capitol.

 

Eastman is also urging the judge, U.S. District Court Judge David Carter of California, to shield dozens of contacts with state legislators, some of whom he advised to appoint slates of pro-Trump electors, overriding the certified results of the popular vote in their states.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Long n Left]

8 hours ago, China said:

Eastman provides new details of Trump’s direct role in legal effort to overturn election

 

John Eastman, the attorney who architected Donald Trump’s last-ditch legal strategy to overturn the 2020 election, revealed Friday that he routinely communicated with Trump either directly or via “six conduits” during the chaotic weeks that preceded the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

 

In a late-night court filing urging a federal judge to maintain the confidentiality of his work for Trump, Eastman provided the clearest insight yet into the blizzard of communications between Trump, his top aides, his campaign lawyers and the army of outside attorneys who were working to help reverse the outcome in a handful of states won by Joe Biden.

 

The filing also describes the direct role of Trump himself in developing strategy, detailing “two hand-written notes from former President Trump about information that he thought might be useful for the anticipated litigation.” Those notes are among the documents Eastman is seeking to shield via attorney-client privilege. Eastman said he would also speak directly with Trump by phone throughout his legal challenges to the election.

 

Eastman described these contacts and records as part of an effort to prevent the Jan. 6 select committee from accessing 600 emails that describe his efforts to build Trump’s legal gambit to reverse the 2020 election outcome — and, when that failed, urge state legislatures to simply overturn the results themselves. He argues that the documents are protected by attorney-client and attorney work product privileges that Congress has no business probing, even as the panel investigates the circumstances that led a mob of Trump supporters to attack the Capitol.

 

Eastman is also urging the judge, U.S. District Court Judge David Carter of California, to shield dozens of contacts with state legislators, some of whom he advised to appoint slates of pro-Trump electors, overriding the certified results of the popular vote in their states.

 

Click on the link for the full article

Not sure attorney-client privilege is relevant, when both the attorney and client in question may have committed seditious acts against the country.

 

Now, I’m not a judge, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few months ago.

[mistertim]

50 minutes ago, Long n Left said:

Not sure attorney-client privilege is relevant, when both the attorney and client in question may have committed seditious acts against the country.

 

Now, I’m not a judge, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few months ago.

 

Yeah I'd think the crime-fraud exception would apply here. From my (extremely limited) understanding, if the client's communication to the attorney is part of an attempt to commit or conceal a crime then the attorney-client privilege doesn't apply.

[skinsmarydu]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I'd think the crime-fraud exception would apply here. From my (extremely limited) understanding, if the client's communication to the attorney is part of an attempt to commit or conceal a crime then the attorney-client privilege doesn't apply.

And you're correct. 

[Ball Security]

20 hours ago, Bloodytusk said:

Fair enough.  I don’t think his posts are of questionable fact it’s more about the fact that I think the way he posts is manipulative. 

I’m trying to better understand where you’re coming from. What part of (or how was) his post that you initially responded to manipulative?

[Bloodytusk]

4 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I’m trying to better understand where you’re coming from. What part of (or how was) his post that you initially responded to manipulative?

It was not I picked the wrong post to do it for I should of done it in one where he  bumped a thread after it went silent for weeks. The way he posts is just unusual posting behavior to me and puts me on guard. What I initially responded to was simply the first post I saw of him and inappropriate to write that comment for.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Bloodytusk

[Larry]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I'd think the crime-fraud exception would apply here. From my (extremely limited) understanding, if the client's communication to the attorney is part of an attempt to commit or conceal a crime then the attorney-client privilege doesn't apply.

But it's what if the attorney is working real, real, hard to find a way his client can legally do something?  

[EmirOfShmo]

8 minutes ago, Larry said:

But it's what if the attorney is working real, real, hard to find a way his client can legally do something?  

Doesn't the use of the college email system Eastman used to correspond with the Orange Turd have something to do with legality of the release of the emails?

[China]

Capitol attack panel to hold six public hearings as it aims to show how Trump broke law

 

The House select committee investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol is expected to stage six public hearings in June on how Donald Trump and some allies broke the law as they sought to overturn the 2020 election results, according to sources familiar with the inquiry.

 

The hearings are set to be a pivotal political moment for the country as the panel aims to publicly outline the potentially unlawful schemes that tried to keep the former president in office despite his defeat at the hands of Joe Biden.

 

According to a draft schedule reviewed by the Guardian, the select committee intends to hold six hearings, with the first and last in prime time, where its lawyers will run through how Trump’s schemes took shape before the election and culminated with the Capitol attack.

 

The select committee has already alleged that Trump violated multiple federal laws to overturn the 2020 election, including obstructing Congress and defrauding the United States. But the hearings are where the panel intends to show how they reached those conclusions.

 

According to the draft schedule, the June public hearings will explore Trump’s efforts to overturn the election, starting and ending with prime-time hearings at 8pm on the 9th and the 23rd. In between, the panel will hold 10am hearings on the 13th, 15th, 16th and 21st.

 

The select committee appears to be planning for the hearings to be extensive affairs. The prime-time hearings are currently scheduled to last between 1.5 and 2 hours and the morning hearings between 2 and 2.5 hours.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

 

[China]

Ethics law offers possible path for Trump prosecution

 

As federal investigators weigh the potential criminality of former President Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, legal experts say a decades-old ethics law — one routinely violated by members of Trump’s inner circle — could provide them a glide path to prosecution.

 

The Hatch Act prohibits electioneering by executive branch officials, including the promotion of the president’s political interests, during the course of their formal duties. 

 

The law was regularly flouted by the Trump administration while in office, a trend that continued throughout the two months between the presidential election and the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

 

While the ethics law has been used almost entirely administratively since it was passed in the 1930s, experts say a rarely used criminal provision of the law could be a novel and relatively straightforward strategy to ensure consequences for Trump in what is sure to be a challenging atmosphere.

 

Norm Eisen, who served as special counsel to Democrats during Trump’s first impeachment, called the actions leading up to Jan. 6 part of a “disturbing and endemic pattern of conduct by Trump enablers in the White House that implicates the Hatch Act, including criminal aspects.” 

 

“This is no exception. It may be the culmination and the worst example,” he said of events and statements around the Capitol riot. 

 

“The problem is that criminal prosecution is really unusual. But everything that happened at the end of the Trump White House was also unusually wrong, and I think it is already the subject of criminal review. So given that context I think it is quite likely that prosecutors will take a fresh look at the Hatch Act among other potential remedies that have been more extensively discussed publicly.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Isifhan]

How about they start with Kellyanne Conway who literally asked them to come after her for all of her Hatch violations. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Isifhan

[Bang]

Oh, the Hatch act, which he first violated..   umm.. oh  the DAY HE TOOK OFFICE.

 

oh yeah. that'll get him.

 

Here is a path to prosecuting him.

GO ****ING ARREST HIM ON JUST THE **** HE HAS ADMITTED.

Because that is PLENTY ENOUGH.

 

~**** all THIS.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Bang