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RichmondRedskin88

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Having a Stadium outside of the area is ok if it's not another team close to your market.  Loudon County is 45 miles from DC and further away than Baltimore (35 miles).  Loudon County is not in the Washington (DMV) Area.  Also, out of the 15000 fans that still show up to FedEx about 50-75% are still from MD.  I'm not saying Virginia is out, just a bad idea to go that far away.  

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22 minutes ago, dckey said:

Having a Stadium outside of the area is ok if it's not another team close to your market.  Loudon County is 45 miles from DC and further away than Baltimore (35 miles).  Loudon County is not in the Washington (DMV) Area.  Also, out of the 15000 fans that still show up to FedEx about 50-75% are still from MD.  I'm not saying Virginia is out, just a bad idea to go that far away.  

 

I get people's frustration with idea of a stadium that might be too far from the city, but what you jus said here that I bolded is absolutely not true. 

 

Loudon is definitely part of the DMV, it's a suburb of DC, I've lost count of the number of people I know that commute from Loudon to DC every day, and holds Dulles which is DCs closest international Airport. They are also extending DCs metro into Loudon, so no, Loudon is not Mars, it is part of the DMV.

 

BTW, Devil's advocate here, Dulles is the same distance to DC as the Patriots stadium is to Boston.  At least by time a new stadium is done, so will the silver line. That still feels pretty far, Bills stadium I thought was in middle of nowhere, too, but is only 10 miles from Buffalo. 49ers stadium is 40 miles from SF, that's too far, imo.

Edited by Renegade7
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For clarification, it's "Loudoun" with a "u" before the "n".

 

Having lived in Loudoun for 13 years now, it absolutely is part of the DMV area.  And there will be Metro service in the very near future (if Metro can ever get their safety act together).  We're talking months, not years.

 

All that being said, I absolutely don't want the stadium here.  But I fear that it's headed in the direction where it will be in Loudoun or Prince William County.

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On 1/19/2022 at 3:31 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dan might be an idiot when it comes to football operations, but I think his hidden skill (because he doesn't need to use it owning a football team) is that he is a "big picture ideas guy."  And I bet he's jealous of JerryWorld, and he want to one-up Jerry.  The way to do that is to build not a stadium, but an entertainment center.  It could even have tie ins to online gaming, and a whole bunch of other things.

 

I might be the eternal optimist about this, but I think the new stadium, I feel like they are going to get that right. 

My overwhelming fear is they move it from East BFE, MD, to West BFE, VA and we have the same problems: opposing fans, pain in the ass traffic, and nothing else around. Snyder might have big picture ideas, but he half-asses and cluster****s the execution.

Edited by Riggo#44
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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I get people's frustration with idea of a stadium that might be too far from the city, but what you jus said here that I bolded is absolutely not true. 

 

Loudon is definitely part of the DMV, it's a suburb of DC, I've lost count of the number of people I know that commute from Loudon to DC every day, and holds Dulles which is DCs closest international Airport. They are also extending DCs metro into Loudon, so no, Loudon is not Mars, it is part of the DMV.

 

BTW, Devil's advocate here, Dulles is the same distance to DC as the Patriots stadium is to Boston.  At least by time a new stadium is done, so will the silver line. That still feels pretty far, Bills stadium I thought was in middle of nowhere, too, but is only 10 miles from Buffalo. 49ers stadium is 40 miles from SF, that's too far, imo.

Technically you are correct!!!  West Virginia is a part of the Washington Area as well, should we build there?  As far as commuting, I know people that commute from West Virginia, Pennsylvania everyday to the Pentagon, There are a lot of people from Laurel and Columbia that commute to DC everyday and Howard County is not a part of the Washington Area.  There is no train service to Southern MD.  so are they not a part of the Washington Area cause they do not have a train service?  I might be biased because I grew up in N.W. DC and I see majority of the fans relocating from DC to MD.  The population of MD in the Washington Area is equal to the Population in Virginia, both about 3 million so to just eliminate the MD fans would be foolish when those were the majority of your fanbase to begin with.  Just for reference the Stadium would be 78 miles away from someone that lives in Southern MD. 

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1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

My overwhelming fear is they move it from East BFE, MD, to West BFE, VA and we have the same problems: opposing fans, pain in the ass traffic, and nothing else around. Snyder might have big picture ideas, but he half-asses and cluster****s the execution.

I'm honestly not sure what the options are though.  Even Jack Kent Cooke, coming off of a decade with 4 SB appearances and 3 SB wins couldn't get a stadium in DC, which is why the damn thing ended up in Raljohn in the first place.

 

I don't think next to National Harbor is a viable location.  The team wants (and rightfully so) to have a sports book and other entertainment around the stadium and with MGM right there, they can't do that.  They could put a stadium there, but it would basically be just a stadium, and would be a huge benefit to the stuff which is already there.  Which isn't really appealing to Snyder. (And I don't blame him for that.)

 

The close-in suburbs in VA, the land is just so fantastically expensive.  With Amazon's new HQ moving to Crystal city, the land there is already spoken for.  There really isn't a spot of land in Arlington I can think of big enough to support a stadium, without tearing down a bunch of stuff.  ** I suggested YEARS ago when they were planning on tearing down Ballston Mall and re-building that entire area, that would be an ideal place for a new "city" stadium.  If you did it right, you could get a stadium, retain, and other stuff all in that area, and they were demolishing it anyway. That time has past.  

 

There are plots of land in Fairfax County which might work, but they are not near the metro.  Unless you're looking at the Tysons area, and land there is now very limited and really expensive.  

 

I am a Virginian, so I don't really know as much about the Maryland suburbs, but I imagine there are similar situations.

 

So, you're going to be pushed to BFE, I think.  And I'm not sure there are a lot of options.  Personally, I'd take Loudon over Prince William county.  I think there are spots near Dulles which they could make pretty appealing.  (Also, as a VA resident, I've had to truck out to MD for the past 25 years, so now it's my turn to have to truck less and MDs turn to truck more.  

 

Ideally, they could find a spot in the city.  Not because I love the city, just because it's in the middle, and that makes it generally easier to get to.  (Though I think getting into the RFK site would be a pain in the ass. It's a pain getting down to Nats park when that ballpark is filled up. 

 

Also, I think, unless you're in GB, because of the secondary ticket market and what not, the fact is opposing fans are going to get into the stadium.  Dallas has some of the most loyal fans in the league (for reasons unknown to me, it's like a Devil worshipping cult), but you saw A LOT of red in that stadium in the playoffs.  So it's just kindof the new normal. It needs to be better than it is, you don't want "takeovers."  But opposing fans will be in the stadium just about no matter what.  

 

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

BTW, Devil's advocate here, Dulles is the same distance to DC as the Patriots stadium is to Boston.  At least by time a new stadium is done, so will the silver line. That still feels pretty far, Bills stadium I thought was in middle of nowhere, too, but is only 10 miles from Buffalo. 49ers stadium is 40 miles from SF, that's too far, imo.

I think the Stadium in Phoenix is about 40 minutes from Phoenix as well.  Lambeau is 150 miles from civilization, but that's a different story.

 

The Meadowlands is in NJ.  It's not FAR from New York City, but it's also not even in the city or the state.  And with traffic, it can be a hike.

 

Jerry World is not in Dallas.  It's in Arlington, almost half-way between Dallas and Ft. Worth.  

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21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm honestly not sure what the options are though.  Even Jack Kent Cooke, coming off of a decade with 4 SB appearances and 3 SB wins couldn't get a stadium in DC, which is why the damn thing ended up in Raljohn in the first place.

DC and Snyder deserve each other--decades of just total, organizational incompetence. They missed the boat, where Audi Stadium is right now would have been the perfect place--the Nats Park area now is hopping.

You're right though--they'd have to tear down a bunch of stuff to build it anywhere near civilization. Nats Park razed a bunch of buildings, and kind of kickstarted the SE renovation. Unfortunately, Snyder is so unlikable, no one is going to do him any favors.

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3 hours ago, dckey said:

Having a Stadium outside of the area is ok if it's not another team close to your market.  Loudon County is 45 miles from DC and further away than Baltimore (35 miles).  Loudon County is not in the Washington (DMV) Area.  Also, out of the 15000 fans that still show up to FedEx about 50-75% are still from MD.  I'm not saying Virginia is out, just a bad idea to go that far away.  

 

Huh? How is Loudoun County not in the DMV area? It's the fastest growing County in the U.S for like 10 years (which they took from Fairfax who held the distinction for 10 years prior) ... the richest 2 counties in the U.S. (I think) ... Not to mention the stadium site is clearly going to focus on the border of Loudoun and Fairfax, across from IAD. Are you saying Dulles is not in the DMV area? What?

 

I just googled "Downtown DC to Dulles" ...

 

31 min (25.1 mi) via I-66 W and VA-267 W

 

Pretty damn accessible.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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For the record, I think too many people are placing focus on "keeping the fans" because the team has been so atrocious for the last 3 decades. The fanbase has lost all it is going to lose. That ship sank long ago.

 

Snyder is going to find the best site for the stadium for the new, global brand that he wants to build. From a pure business perspective, it makes 100% to put it next to IAD, and 0% to put it into PG County. Zero. Nobody wants to travel to Prince Georges County for a football game unless they live there or right in DC.


Not saying people in Prince Georges want to drive to Dulles, but this idea that we have to put the stadium in Maryland because of the threat of the Ravens is silly. Snyder has a huge opportunity to capture a new brand of fans in Northern Virginia and globally, and the fans he loses from MoCo and PGC are minimal compared to the gains of Dulles. Some of you are being to nostalgiac or focused on the "old days" of how the fan-base was constructed. Those days are long gone.

 

Snyder cares about $$. And until the team rebuilds its fanbase, it will take whoever it can get. The hope would be by the stadium open, the team would be competitive, and the new atmosphere of the stadium would drive fans to the games in droves. BUT, flying into Dulles from anywhere in the world really, and taking a 5 minute metro ride to your hotel next to the stadium would really make the new stadium the most accessible in the country if you think about it from that perspective. Even moreso than Newark to the Meadowlands. Probably right up there with Vegas' new stadium. So you would join Vegas as a premier and accessible destination for visiting fans, which will drive ticket sales.

 

9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Nothing is really accessible from 66.

 

66 Westbound out of DC on a Sunday isn't bad. And you're just on 66 until you hit 267 just past Falls Church. From Maryland, you're coming down 495 to 267 ... but 267 is not a congested road by any means, and I can't see it being an issue on Sundays. Monday Night Football? Absolutely a nightmare during pre-pandemic commute windows. But that's going to be a nightmare no matter where you put the stadium.

 

Which is another thing to think about. 95/495 are east coast thoroughfares. But locally, flexwork is here to stay, and I think the fact that 50-60% of the commuter base will be remote at any given moment means that generally, traffic woes might be mitigated a bit. I have been commuting into DC off and on during rush hour for several months now, and I have yet to hit any gridlock on 267, 66 or 28

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Huh? How is Loudoun County not in the DMV area? It's the fastest growing County IN the DMV. Not to mention the stadium site is clearly going to focus on the border of Loudoun and Fairfax, across from IAD. Are you saying Dulles is not in the DMV area? What?

 

I just googled "Downtown DC to Dulles" ...

 

31 min (25.1 mi) via I-66 W and VA-267 W

 

Pretty damn accessible.

I didn't say from Downtown DC, I stated it is 78 miles from Southern Maryland to Loudon County not Dulles.  I stated that most of the fanbase from the Metro DC Area are moving to Md.  Loudon County is the fastest growing area in the DMV, but that is a majority of people relocating to this area from other cities, not the Metro DC Area.  Working in the government I see a lot of people who are moving from other cities to Loudon County because of an influx of business on the 267 toll road.  I just don't believe that moving that far away is a good thing by eliminating your fanbase in MD which is close to 50%.  I'm not saying don't move to Virginia it's just that is far for a big part of your fanbase.  Especially when you consider that you are competing with another franchise for fans.  FedEx is 63 miles away from Loudoun County.  It would be the furthest a stadium has been built away from the previous stadium in the history of the NFL.  Texas Stadium was only 15 miles away from AT&T.  Candlestick Park was 35 miles away from Levi Stadium.  

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19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

For the record, I think too many people are placing focus on "keeping the fans" because the team has been so atrocious for the last 3 decades. The fanbase has lost all it is going to lose. That ship sank long ago.

 

Snyder is going to find the best site for the stadium for the new, global brand that he wants to build. From a pure business perspective, it makes 100% to put it next to IAD, and 0% to put it into PG County. Zero. Nobody wants to travel to Prince Georges County for a football game unless they live there or right in DC.


Not saying people in Prince Georges want to drive to Dulles, but this idea that we have to put the stadium in Maryland because of the threat of the Ravens is silly. Snyder has a huge opportunity to capture a new brand of fans in Northern Virginia and globally, and the fans he loses from MoCo and PGC are minimal compared to the gains of Dulles. Some of you are being to nostalgiac or focused on the "old days" of how the fan-base was constructed. Those days are long gone.

 

Snyder cares about $$. And until the team rebuilds its fanbase, it will take whoever it can get. The hope would be by the stadium open, the team would be competitive, and the new atmosphere of the stadium would drive fans to the games in droves. BUT, flying into Dulles from anywhere in the world really, and taking a 5 minute metro ride to your hotel next to the stadium would really make the new stadium the most accessible in the country if you think about it from that perspective. Even moreso than Newark to the Meadowlands. Probably right up there with Vegas' new stadium. So you would join Vegas as a premier and accessible destination for visiting fans, which will drive ticket sales.

 

 

66 Westbound out of DC on a Sunday isn't bad. And you're just on 66 until you hit 267 just past Falls Church. From Maryland, you're coming down 495 to 267 ... but 267 is not a congested road by any means, and I can't see it being an issue on Sundays. Monday Night Football? Absolutely a nightmare during pre-pandemic commute windows. But that's going to be a nightmare no matter where you put the stadium.

 

Which is another thing to think about. 95/495 are east coast thoroughfares. But locally, flexwork is here to stay, and I think the fact that 50-60% of the commuter base will be remote at any given moment means that generally, traffic woes might be mitigated a bit. I have been commuting into DC off and on during rush hour for several months now, and I have yet to hit any gridlock on 267, 66 or 28

In your assessment you believe there are more people that will become (whatever our name is going to be fans) because of What?  If the product on the field doesn't change you really believe your gaining fans????   And this mindset of it's ok to lose majority of your currently paying fans is a good business practice?  How many people that currently go to FedEx are from Va or MD?  Out of the 20,000 fans that go to the games about 60% are from MD.  Most people from Virginia aren't driving to see this current product.  I think either a location near National Harbor or Tysons would be a great location, for all of the fans.  

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6 minutes ago, dckey said:

In your assessment you believe there are more people that will become (whatever our name is going to be fans) because of What?  If the product on the field doesn't change you really believe your gaining fans????   And this mindset of it's ok to lose majority of your currently paying fans is a good business practice?  How many people that currently go to FedEx are from Va or MD?  Out of the 20,000 fans that go to the games about 60% are from MD.  Most people from Virginia aren't driving to see this current product.  I think either a location near National Harbor or Tysons would be a great location, for all of the fans.  

 

I don't disagree with you. I understand your arguments. But the stadium needs to be inked and start being built in the next 2 years. And guess what, DC is not in play. National Harbor has no metro and already has a casino/sports book. Tysons has no land.

 

There literally is no land inside the beltway to build a stadium, so you have to go outside of it. And right now, there is a lot more potential building it at Dulles than there is to build it somewhere else in PG County, because those are really going to be the only options (not including PWC south of Springfield, but that would be a disaster IMO.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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39 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Huh? How is Loudoun County not in the DMV area? It's the fastest growing County in the U.S for like 10 years (which they took from Fairfax who held the distinction for 10 years prior) ... the richest 2 counties in the U.S. (I think) ... Not to mention the stadium site is clearly going to focus on the border of Loudoun and Fairfax, across from IAD. Are you saying Dulles is not in the DMV area? What?

 

I just googled "Downtown DC to Dulles" ...

 

31 min (25.1 mi) via I-66 W and VA-267 W

 

Pretty damn accessible.

I used to commute from mt airy md to Herndon va for work. If I took the beltway it was 1 hour there 3 hours home .

if I took 15 and went around through leesburg it was 1 hour there and 2 hours home.

 

Sorry but moving out to Dulles or even worse down 95 in prince william county is a no go for maryland fans. 
 

and lastly maryland roads are not a mess like nva is . 

 

34 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

For the record, I think too many people are placing focus on "keeping the fans" because the team has been so atrocious for the last 3 decades. The fanbase has lost all it is going to lose. That ship sank long ago.

 

Snyder is going to find the best site for the stadium for the new, global brand that he wants to build. From a pure business perspective, it makes 100% to put it next to IAD, and 0% to put it into PG County. Zero. Nobody wants to travel to Prince Georges County for a football game unless they live there or right in DC.


Not saying people in Prince Georges want to drive to Dulles, but this idea that we have to put the stadium in Maryland because of the threat of the Ravens is silly. Snyder has a huge opportunity to capture a new brand of fans in Northern Virginia and globally, and the fans he loses from MoCo and PGC are minimal compared to the gains of Dulles. Some of you are being to nostalgiac or focused on the "old days" of how the fan-base was constructed. Those days are long gone.

 

Snyder cares about $$. And until the team rebuilds its fanbase, it will take whoever it can get. The hope would be by the stadium open, the team would be competitive, and the new atmosphere of the stadium would drive fans to the games in droves. BUT, flying into Dulles from anywhere in the world really, and taking a 5 minute metro ride to your hotel next to the stadium would really make the new stadium the most accessible in the country if you think about it from that perspective. Even moreso than Newark to the Meadowlands. Probably right up there with Vegas' new stadium. So you would join Vegas as a premier and accessible destination for visiting fans, which will drive ticket sales.

 

 

66 Westbound out of DC on a Sunday isn't bad. And you're just on 66 until you hit 267 just past Falls Church. From Maryland, you're coming down 495 to 267 ... but 267 is not a congested road by any means, and I can't see it being an issue on Sundays. Monday Night Football? Absolutely a nightmare during pre-pandemic commute windows. But that's going to be a nightmare no matter where you put the stadium.

 

Which is another thing to think about. 95/495 are east coast thoroughfares. But locally, flexwork is here to stay, and I think the fact that 50-60% of the commuter base will be remote at any given moment means that generally, traffic woes might be mitigated a bit. I have been commuting into DC off and on during rush hour for several months now, and I have yet to hit any gridlock on 267, 66 or 28

Not one person in Virginia that is not currently a fan will become a fan due to a stadium being built in northern VA.

 

the new stadium must be within 2-3 miles of the beltway or in DC. If it is any other place it will be an abject failure and lose fan support 

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Just now, Ball Security said:

I keep seeing this number that 60% or whatever fans are FedEx are from MD.  Where does that come from?  With so many tickets sold on the secondary market, how do they track that?  Not saying I doubt it completely, just curious where that comes from.

Not sure where the 60 percent you're talking about is being referenced but I think they track it by Credit Card address. At least that's what I suspect since I hear things about how LA is only going to allow tickets to be sold to people with Socal addresses attached to credit cards. 

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3 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

Not sure where the 60 percent you're talking about is being referenced but I think they track it by Credit Card address. At least that's what I suspect since I hear things about how LA is only going to allow tickets to be sold to people with Socal addresses attached to credit cards. 

What?  If the Redskins/WFT/Commanders/Danny’s go on the road to play the Rams, Washington fans can’t buy tickets?  That’s crazy.

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Just now, Ball Security said:

What?  If the Redskins/WFT/Commanders/Danny’s go on the road to play the Rams, Washington fans can’t buy tickets?  That’s crazy.

I think they are trying to keep San Fran fans away for this one game. It's not unheard of. Tampa Bay Lighting I think have done it for Stanley cup finals in the past. 

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They've already said that it's going to be an enormous sports and entertainment complex and more, as well as not being football focused, so you know that it's not going to be any kind of civilization. 

 

Dan wants to be Jerry and Jerry World is not near anything either.

 

He wants to build an attraction for sports and entertainment, not a football stadium. That's a small part of it.

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I’m in Howard County. Dulles area sounds good to me. The further away the better because I won’t be going there as long as Snyder owns the team. Conversely, I would be more than happy to drive any distance if it meant Snyder was gone!  Loudoun County makes the most sense imo, which means it will likely be somewhere else.

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7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

They've already said that it's going to be an enormous sports and entertainment complex and more, as well as not being football focused, so you know that it's not going to be any kind of civilization. 

 

Dan wants to be Jerry and Jerry World is not near anything either.

 

He wants to build an attraction for sports and entertainment, not a football stadium. That's a small part of it.

 

This is kind of what I have been driving at. If you build it, they will come. If you build a Las Vegas or Jerry World style entertainment complex with Sports Book, dining, etnertainment, hotels, etc. ... the football game is just one element of a massive scheme.

 

SO yes, it would possibly drive away some Maryland fans ... but I think the entire experience will draw in more people in general. They will create an environment that is attractive to fans of any team, and hope that they get a larger fan base, and attract WFT fans on Sundays, but that is not the driving priority here.

 

And the best place to build this entertainment superplex is next to the international airport, accessible via rail and road easily from most of the DMV region, on the border of the two richest counties in the country. I'm sorry, but I doubt they're looking at the fanbase in Mount Airy and making a stadium so that it is "reasonably accessible" to rural areas of southern Maryland ... come on now

 

THIS needs to be the focus. Not the football team fans, or the product on Sundays. The best place to drop a Las Vegas or Dallas stadium into the DMV is at Dulles, period.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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Most of those fans will come and go with wins and loses. If you have a huge entertainment complex that has concerts, conventions, all sorts of other stuff, it's not going to be near congestion. There is no sports entertainment disney even close, so it'll be an attraction like an amusement park only bigger and better.

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