Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

No, he didn't face pressure on every single play. But when you are under constant pressure you feel pressure that isn't there and you feel like you need to create. He felt that and it led to him forcing some throws.

 

He makes mistakes and isn't perfect. But I really want our fanbase to understand that sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side. Would I like to be developing a rookie QB right now? Absolutely. Would it be nice to have Mac Jones? Justin Fields? Yes. We could have had them. We didn't. Now we have Heinicke and I think even though he's NOT a rookie you have to evaluate him as if he is. Is he improving week to week? Giving you a chance to win? Does the team believe? That's the criteria we need to look at. 

 

And then in the draft if a QB the team loves is there at our pick.... and they think it'll be an upgrade... Take that guy. By all means. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water just because.

I agree with this all 100%. Heinicke should be our starter next year and I think there's a lot of room for him to improve and I think he will. Im excited about his future with us.

 

He still played like **** yesterday and did the three things we worry about him doing and it's not all on the oline. 

 

We definitely missed McKissic and his pass blocking yesterday. I also think we had to send Bates out to catch, instead of keeping him in to block because of LT getting hurt.

 

I really want to re-watch the game. The Raiders threw everything against our wall.

[DJHJR86]

I'm willing to wager that this is Heinicke's team next year.  And I'm starting to believe maybe more.  His biggest asset is something that doesn't show up on the stat sheets: his moxie.  And it comes through when we need it to most.

[Wildbunny]

This is already Taylor's team.

The guy on the field are ready to die for him so that's already his team. He took the team when Fitz got injured and it didn't change since.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree with this all 100%. Heinicke should be our starter next year and I think there's a lot of room for him to improve and I think he will. Im excited about his future with us.

 

He still played like **** yesterday and did the three things we worry about him doing and it's not all on the oline. 

 

We definitely missed McKissic and his pass blocking yesterday. I also think we had to send Bates out to catch, instead of keeping him in to block because of LT getting hurt.

 

I really want to re-watch the game. The Raiders threw everything against our wall.

I don’t agree that he played poorly yesterday. He had some bad moments. I can’t disagree there. But his ability to create and escape saved this team a few times as well. I think he played a relatively good game. Not one of his better ones. But a middle of the road game. This wasn’t a Fitzpatrick stinker game. This wasn’t anywhere near as poorly as Lamar Jackson yesterday. He played better than Carr yesterday. 
 

I just don’t think it was as bad as you do. 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, KDawg said:

I don’t agree that he played poorly yesterday. He had some bad moments. I can’t disagree there. But his ability to create and escape saved this team a few times as well. I think he played a relatively good game. Not one of his better ones. But a middle of the road game. This wasn’t a Fitzpatrick stinker game. This wasn’t anywhere near as poorly as Lamar Jackson yesterday. He played better than Carr yesterday. 
 

I just don’t think it was as bad as you do. 

It wasn't a total meltdown game, but it was a bad one. It was on the low side of what he can do IMO. 

[ntotoro]

These guys are fighting for Taylor. That's more than any QB we've had in a while, including and especially Cousins.

Edited December 6, 2021 by ntotoro

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

And the reason I say that 2-3 year window with a middle ot he pack QB is because it's basically impossible in the modern NFL to keep a star studded group together for any longer than that, because you're simply not going to be able to pay them all and will inevitably have to let some walk or trade them.

 

 

You typically have the same problem after paying an elite QB, hard to keep those well paid studs around them. 

 

Brady typically wasn't the highest paid player in the NFL for the Patriots even though he could have, big reason they could go on multiple runs. 

 

But that's not normal, multiple super bowl runs before and then also after paying your elite franchise QB isnt normal at all, its extremely rare. 

[Burgold]

What makes a “franchise qb” is unclear to me. The greatest QBs of the modern era: Brady, Peyton, and Brees… none of them had Marino’s or Elway’s arm. None of them had Michael Vick’s mobility. In fact, Brees and Brady had below average or just barely average arms. Peyton had almost no mobility. Brees and Brady were also physically limited in terms of mobility. In fact, I’d go almost so far as to say that if we looked at all three just on athletic potential, you’d find tons of people opposed to drafting them were they rookies today. 
 

Heinike’s proven to me he can be a player in this league. The fact that he needs help doesn’t bother me. Elway never won a Super Bowl until he got a running game and a defense. In fact, Denver won despite Elway (and despite Manning too.)

 

Now, Heinike hasn’t proven he’s capable of being a good let alone a great QB, but he has taken on and beaten some good teams. For now, I’m satisfied to learn just how far guts and hustle can take us.

 

One or two losses may change everything, but for now, we have a QB that makes defensive coordinators worried at the end of the game. I’ll take that. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Personally, I'm just trying to enjoy the ride.  It's not often our games are interesting when the Christmas tree is up.  It's nice to have a Dallas game to actually look forward to, that has implications on the division and the postseason.  

 

Heineke is giving us everything that he has within him and we're gutting out 17-15 wins on the road - I'll take it.  I'm not real sure how long you can survive in this league, particularly one season to the next regularly playing games like this, but for now - it'll do the trick.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

What makes a “franchise qb” is unclear to me.

 

Consistency.

[Tress Is The Way]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree with this all 100%. Heinicke should be our starter next year and I think there's a lot of room for him to improve and I think he will. Im excited about his future with us.

 

He still played like **** yesterday and did the three things we worry about him doing and it's not all on the oline. 

 

We definitely missed McKissic and his pass blocking yesterday. I also think we had to send Bates out to catch, instead of keeping him in to block because of LT getting hurt.

 

I really want to re-watch the game. The Raiders threw everything against our wall.

Please tell me how he played like ****? Ended with a 76% completion rate, 2 TDs, 101.5 rating (65.7 QBR), and lead the team to a 4th quarter win. He had one lousy INT which the raiders D played well on (his arm was hit when he was releasing). I'd say he played damn well for an away game, injuries, and showed a **** load of mox.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

Please tell me how he played like ****? Ended with a 76% completion rate, 2 TDs, 101.5 rating (65.7 QBR), and lead the team to a 4th quarter win. He had one lousy INT which the raiders D played well on (his arm was hit when he was releasing). I'd say he played damn well for an away game, injuries, and showed a **** load of mox.

It was answered in the post you quoted. So, please read posts you quote so you don't have to be told. 

[Morrissey1972]

Taylor and Gibson were deeply impacted by a Raiders defense that was determined to smack them in the mouth - especially in the 3rd quarter. It took both of them a quarter to shake off the sting and we prevailed. 
 

That is all. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Morrissey1972

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

And then in the draft if a QB the team loves is there at our pick.... and they think it'll be an upgrade... Take that guy. By all means. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water just because.

 

I'm moving off the idea of drafting a first round QB.  IMO Taylor is in the process of taking ownership of our QB job and with him being 28, we won't need a developmental QB, just a good vet back up.  Taylor just works for us.  His leadership and personality are becoming the identity of the team, and he has a great relationship with Scott Turner. 

 

IMO Taylor is saving Turner's job here because he gets Turner's system, executes it well, and the potential of the Turner system is finally starting to develop.  I've not been a fan of Turner, and I do still think he's got to keep getting better in order to grow into his job.  But I would rather have that process happen here instead of having Turner get fired and we start back at square one.  Look no further than what is happening in Carolina to see our alternate path.  Joe Brady didn't have a Taylor Heinicke to get his system off the ground.

 

I think we've got our QB and that we need to adjust our team building strategy to building around Taylor and taking advantage of a window where our QB spending will be dirt cheap.  If you spend our first two picks in the draft on something like Garrett Wilson or Chris Olave or Drake London + Breece Hall or Kenneth Walker, then all of a sudden our offense looks potent.  Three good backs and three good receivers and Taylor has shown an aptitude for utilizing his personnel.  This is our best path to take IMO, rather than hedging our bets on Taylor and missing the opportunity to build a powerful group of weapons.

[Darrell Green Fan]

He's an easy guy to get behind but I find it interesting that people are overlooking that Kirk like INT that was dropped on the final drive.  That ball is caught and this conversation is a bit different.  

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm moving off the idea of drafting a first round QB.  IMO Taylor is in the process of taking ownership of our QB job and with him being 28, we won't need a developmental QB, just a good vet back up.  Taylor just works for us.  His leadership and personality are becoming the identity of the team, and he has a great relationship with Scott Turner. 

 

IMO Taylor is saving Turner's job here because he gets Turner's system, executes it well, and the potential of the Turner system is finally starting to develop.  I've not been a fan of Turner, and I do still think he's got to keep getting better in order to grow into his job.  But I would rather have that process happen here instead of having Turner get fired and we start back at square one.  Look no further than what is happening in Carolina to see our alternate path.  Joe Brady didn't have a Taylor Heinicke to get his system off the ground.

 

I think we've got our QB and that we need to adjust our team building strategy to building around Taylor and taking advantage of a window where our QB spending will be dirt cheap.  If you spend our first two picks in the draft on something like Garrett Wilson or Chris Olave or Drake London + Breece Hall or Kenneth Walker, then all of a sudden our offense looks potent.  Three good backs and three good receivers and Taylor has shown an aptitude for utilizing his personnel.  This is our best path to take IMO, rather than hedging our bets on Taylor and missing the opportunity to build a powerful group of weapons.

 

I don't know if I agree totally with the Turner point, but I agree with the first part 100%. I'm talking if the QB they like most drops to our pick AND they think he's MUCH better than Taylor, you take him. No questions. But if you have to question it... don't waste the resource. Heinicke is playing solid football. He is winning. If yesterday was a bad game for him that is an incredible thing to have in a QB. 

 

Brady threw a pick six yesterday. Stafford has thrown a bunch of them this year. Trevor Lawrence is struggling in Jacksonville. Fields is hurt. Wilson has been pretty bad. Lance isn't playing. Davis Mills is... Davis Mills on the Texans.  Patrick Mahomes has NOT been the same guy people came to know. 

 

I don't think people realize that the ability to upgrade on the way Heinicke has played is VERY difficult...

 

Heinicke fits. The players love him. He's a god damn Jedi. Why mess with it? Why change it up? Why not make him the unquestioned starter and see what he can do? 

 

I love your last paragraph as well. I'm not sure I go offense/offense in the first two, but I wouldn't hate it. I want a FS, RB, WR and LB. But if we get a bellcow to give Gibson less wear and a WR for Heinicke... plus a healthy Samuel... Wow.

 

I'd like a LT as well, but that's not AS important.

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

He's an easy guy to get behind but I find it interesting that people are overlooking that Kirk like INT that was dropped on the final drive.  That ball is caught and this conversation is a bit different.  

 

 

I've mentioned that play a few times.

 

It stands out. He makes mistakes. He's not infallable. 

 

Brady threw a pick six yesterday.

 

It happens. And no he isn't Brady and hasn't earned the same trust equity. But the point I'm making there is even the elite make mistakes.

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Teams with middle tier QBs aren't perennial contenders so all of the stars have to align for them to get to the SB and they don't make it back. Dilfer, Flacco, Kaep, Jimmy G, Foles, Goff. All of those guys went to one SB and pretty much never sniffed it again.

 

Getting a top QB is pretty much the only way to guarantee the chance of being a perennial contender for a long time. With a middle tier QB, a top supporting cast, and a top defense, you have about a 2-3 year window. With an elite QB you have a 10-15 year window.

 

 

Thank you for making the exact point I have made numerous times when the need for a franchise QB is discussed.  Posters trot out the names like Dilfer, then totally ignore me when I pointed out they are all one and done and never get close again.  

[Warhead36]

I don't like the "teammates love him" narrative. Guys love to win more than anything else.

 

Tyrod Taylor's Bills teammates loved him too. He made the playoffs. But they still replaced him for Josh Allen.

 

Alex Smith was beloved by the Chiefs. They replaced him for Pat Mahomes.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

You can't limit your long term ceiling because you're afraid of hurting guys feelings. If you get the right guy, the team will rally around him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

He's an easy guy to get behind but I find it interesting that people are overlooking that Kirk like INT that was dropped on the final drive.  That ball is caught and this conversation is a bit different.  

 

 

 

Yeah, but every QB has interceptions that were dropped.  And every QB has bull**** interceptions where the ball was tipped, even by his own teammate.  These things wash out, IMO.  

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't like the "teammates love him" narrative. Guys love to win more than anything else.

 

Tyrod Taylor's Bills teammates loved him too. He made the playoffs. But they still replaced him for Josh Allen.

 

Alex Smith was beloved by the Chiefs. They replaced him for Pat Mahomes.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

You can't limit your long term ceiling because you're afraid of hurting guys feelings. If you get the right guy, the team will rally around him.

 

Lol, bro, you just don't like Heinicke.   

[Warhead36]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

 

Lol, bro, you just don't like Heinicke.   

That's not it at all. I was actually one of the few who argued that we shouldn't bench him because he makes the offense run.

 

I just think our ceiling to win and sustain success over the long term is extremely limited with Heinicke.

 

He's not a bad QB. I'd even put him into mid tier starter right now. But you don't sustain success over 3, 5, 7+ years with a mid tier starter.

 

I want us to be a perennial contender. You need an upper echelon starter for that. I just don't think Heinicke is that guy.

 

But I guess I have loftier standards than just trying to squeeze out a 9 win season every few years.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

That's not it at all. I was actually one of the few who argued that we shouldn't bench him because he makes the offense run.

 

I just think our ceiling to win and sustain success over the long term is extremely limited with Heinicke.

 

He's not a bad QB. I'd even put him into mid tier starter right now. But you don't sustain success over 3, 5, 7+ years with a mid tier starter.

 

I want us to be a perennial contender. You need an upper echelon starter for that. I just don't think Heinicke is that guy.

 

But I guess I have loftier standards than just trying to squeeze out a 9 win season every few years.

 

Fair enough.

 

Does the possibility exist that he can get better than he is right now?

[Warhead36]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Does the possibility exist that he can get better than he is right now?

Anything is possible but I don't think you can go from bottom of the league arm strength to above average. Even getting to average is tough(but would be a huge improvement).

 

And he ain't gonna get taller.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Anything is possible but I don't think you can go from bottom of the league arm strength to above average. Even getting to average is tough(but would be a huge improvement).

 

And he ain't gonna get taller.

 

Do you have to be tall to be a winner in this league?

 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't like the "teammates love him" narrative. Guys love to win more than anything else.

 

Tyrod Taylor's Bills teammates loved him too. He made the playoffs. But they still replaced him for Josh Allen.

 

Alex Smith was beloved by the Chiefs. They replaced him for Pat Mahomes.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

You can't limit your long term ceiling because you're afraid of hurting guys feelings. If you get the right guy, the team will rally around him.

 

They're winning.

[El Mexican]

TH has proven he can rally the team around him. This is incredibly rare in today's NFL.

 

Even in a loss (TB playoff game) he showed that he can carry the team on his back.

This season has solidified that idea, even with its ups and downs.

 

With RR's leadership and TH's scrappyness I'd wager, maybe, some elite guys around the NFL will start coming here next year.

The toxicity is starting to evaporate.

 

As I said last December: cutting Haskins' was the single most important decision of the last decade for this organization.

RR sent a message to the entire organization and now we are seeing a solid foundation.

Edited December 6, 2021 by El Mexican