Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[KDawg]

Just now, NoCalMike said:

I still don't think Taylor is "the" guy, but I am willing to say he has earned the right to start in the meantime, whether it is drafting the future QB or bringing in a bonafied no-doubt veteran that still has gas left in the tank.  I know earlier in the game they were talking about Russell Wilson potentially exiting Seattle, not sure his contract situation or what it would take, but I'd give him a look if the opportunity was there.

Honestly… I wouldn’t. He hasn’t looked the same this year, even before the finger. He looks hesitant. 
 

While I still believe Russ’ talent, you can’t easily replace Heinicke’s familiarity with the system, moxey, poise, ice water in his veins and, most importantly, how his teammates feel about him.

 

Wilson, if healthy, would be a major physical upgrade as it pertains to arm talent. But his cost and what we lose with Taylor would outweigh that.

 

Now, if Heinicke lays an egg the rest of the way it’s a different convo. Have to let it play.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

How about that pass to Carter? I’m not completely sure he wasn’t throwing it to Thomas but if not that was one hell of a throw to get it over Thomas and the defender. 
 

A play like that shows me Heinicke could be our guy!

 

He was throwing to Carter. Thomas thought it was him so that is why he was jumping up. Thomas almost messed that up. Good thing the throw was higher and to Carter instead. 

[Warhead36]

I thought Heinicke played really well tonight but was let down by piss poor playcalling and some uncharacteristic missed catches(I won't say drops because they weren't easy balls)by McLaurin and Thomas.

[PartyPosse]

When the run game is going Taylor is the perfect complimentary QB to it. It showed tonight. Very few high risk passes whcih is a good thing.

[ThomasRoane]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Honestly… I wouldn’t. He hasn’t looked the same this year, even before the finger. He looks hesitant. 
 

While I still believe Russ’ talent, you can’t easily replace Heinicke’s familiarity with the system, moxey, poise, ice water in his veins and, most importantly, how his teammates feel about him.

 

Wilson, if healthy, would be a major physical upgrade as it pertains to arm talent. But his cost and what we lose with Taylor would outweigh that.

 

Now, if Heinicke lays an egg the rest of the way it’s a different convo. Have to let it play.

 

And I would add elite escapability to TAYLOR Heinicke's resume.  His ability to get out of trouble is really special.  That's not something you can drill effectively.  

 

Taylor is not a poor man's Russell Wilson anymore.  He's a younger Russell Wilson.  

[Warhead36]

I still think we need a legit GUY for the future but I'm okay with Heinicke starting next year in the meantime. His physical limitations will make it tough for us to beat certain teams though. Its gonna be like the early Andy Reid Chiefs teams with Alex Smith where they were good enough to win ~10 games a year but had a ceiling until they made the move to get Mahomes.

[ThomasRoane]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I still think we need a legit GUY for the future but I'm okay with Heinicke starting next year in the meantime. His physical limitations will make it tough for us to beat certain teams though. Its gonna be like the early Andy Reid Chiefs teams with Alex Smith where they were good enough to win ~10 games a year but had a ceiling until they made the move to get Mahomes.

 

I don't think that's a good comp.  If you surround Heinicke with the talent Alex Smith had around him you'll see more big plays.  Alex was check-down charlie if his first option (Hill or Kelce) were covered.  Heinicke can get thru progressions very quickly.  

[mrfixit28]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I still think we need a legit GUY for the future but I'm okay with Heinicke starting next year in the meantime. His physical limitations will make it tough for us to beat certain teams though. Its gonna be like the early Andy Reid Chiefs teams with Alex Smith where they were good enough to win ~10 games a year but had a ceiling until they made the move to get Mahomes.

We shall see. I think we have the guy for next year. The secondary should take priority patching up. I like Heinicke for now, but I am still not 100% convinced. I do like his pocket presence and overall just playmaking ability.  

[TheGoodBits]

Heinicke’s a guy you can win 8-10 games with. But he’ll never win you a super bowl. The quarterback search will continue, but it can continue knowing we’ve got a decent play holder for now. 

[NoCalMike]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I still think we need a legit GUY for the future but I'm okay with Heinicke starting next year in the meantime. His physical limitations will make it tough for us to beat certain teams though. Its gonna be like the early Andy Reid Chiefs teams with Alex Smith where they were good enough to win ~10 games a year but had a ceiling until they made the move to get Mahomes.

 

That's where I am.  I think Heinicke can be serviceable in an offense that schemes around his limitations, but when Wilson launched that rocket down the middle of the field at the end of the game, it is a reminder that the physical ability in being able to put a certain amount of velocity on the ball matters.  There have been way too many incompletions on deeper passes where the WR comes back to the ball but it is delivered so gingerly that the DB's have too much time to recover.  Also on a ton of little out-routes to the sidelines that move the chains, Taylor is very often playing with danger due to arm strength issues. That might not matter against a bad defense, but it can cost games.   Those things get overlooked right now because it's a 5-6 team, but those limitations of your starting QB will matter in the long run.  The team overall isn't there yet as a unit, so you can have Heinicke run the show for now, but as you said, there is a reason Alex Smith was replaced by two teams despite him being the QB during relatively successful periods. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by NoCalMike

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I don't think that's a good comp.  If you surround Heinicke with the talent Alex Smith had around him you'll see more big plays.  Alex was check-down charlie if his first option (Hill or Kelce) were covered.  Heinicke can get thru progressions very quickly.  

Heinicke isn't check down charlie, but he has physical limitations. You see it quite often on certain throws. Even tonight, the pick to Thomas while he does hit him in the hands gets there late because it doesn't have real velocity allowing the defender to break on the ball and tip it up for a pick. Teams that can play consistent tight man coverage will shut us down(see Packers, Bills, Saints, Broncos).

[Renegade7]

Taylor wouldve looked better if we didnt hide him during those three 3rd and short in row failures. 

 

That really bothered me that we didnt give him the ball once, we arent asking him to win games for us, more like dont lose it for us.  Its working, we are winning, but it shows what the coaches think of him.  

 

We have to trust him more against the Raiders, we cant beat them playing scared like we did tonight.

[skinny21]

Taylor’s been playing smart football - he hasn’t put the ball in harm’s way nearly as often, he’s converting key downs, etc.  Been good to see the evolution.

 

I’m curious what others think about this question - does TH elevate the guys around him?  Carter, RSJ, and Cam Sims in the playoff game are pretty sizeable notches in his favor, but I could see the argument it’s Turner scheming those guys open (and individual effort/performance on their part).

[TK]

 

 

 

 

[Bacon]

I'll add to the above...he's developed a damn good slide. You can tell he practiced that over the offseason in order to protect himself.

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

[skinny21]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Heinicke isn't check down charlie, but he has physical limitations. You see it quite often on certain throws. Even tonight, the pick to Thomas while he does hit him in the hands gets there late because it doesn't have real velocity allowing the defender to break on the ball and tip it up for a pick. Teams that can play consistent tight man coverage will shut us down(see Packers, Bills, Saints, Broncos).

Not disagreeing with your overall premise, but Packers didn’t shut TH down except for the pass to RSJ, and that was great defense (PI in slow mo, but that was bang, bang) and that didn’t look like a velocity issue.  The noticeable one tonight was the pass to Carter, though if it was a bit more outside I think it’s a catch.  

Of course, I also happen to think his awareness, accuracy and comfort in the system have improved to the point I’m not sweating the arm strength.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

In fairness, Tom has almost all of those stats all by himself.  He does have 7 of the 8 SB rings. Russ has the one.  That’s it.  
 

😛 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Heinicke is the guy until he isn't. If he can keep finding ways to win with a patchwork offensive line, no major pass catching weapons outside of McLaurin (Thomas is good but will slowly be getting back into form), I don't think I would bet against that. He will undoubtedly deserve more chances until he's exhausted them all by proving he's the one or he isn't. 

 

That 5 game stretch against the NFC East will tell me a lot about who Heinicke is. If he is playing his best football during those games, you better believe I'm fully strapped in. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[NoCalMike]

The frustrating part about his lack of arm strength is that he still is usually making the right decision on where to throw the ball, but he doesn't have the velocity to be late with the ball.  You saw Wilson on the first TD throw tonight, he only makes that throw because of his arm, otherwise it is deflected or even picked off.  That pass to Lockett in the 2nd quarter I believe to midfield?  That kind of throw is something Taylor can't do, and even with Wilson throwing it, if the corner plays better and not like he is drunk, that should have been deflected or even picked. 

 

Teams that play primarily zone coverage will make it easier on QB's to find guys in space as long as the O-line is giving good pass protection.  That changes against the better secondaries that can play a lot of man coverage because then the passes have to be zipped into spaces usually away from the defender and only where the WR has a chance to make a play.  McLaurin is great at contested catches, but you don't want that to become a regular thing and get him hurt trying to be an acrobat constantly. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

In fairness, Tom has almost all of those stats all by himself.  He does have 7 of the 8 SB rings. Russ has the one.  That’s it.  
 

😛 

Nothing that Tom or Russ did in 2014 matters now.

 

Step into the present…

[PartyPosse]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Taylor wouldve looked better if we didnt hide him during those three 3rd and short in row failures. 

 

That really bothered me that we didnt give him the ball once, we arent asking him to win games for us, more like dont lose it for us.  Its working, we are winning, but it shows what the coaches think of him.  

 

We have to trust him more against the Raiders, we cant beat them playing scared like we did tonight.

Eh. Scott’s father was the same way. Stubborn. I honestly think that’s more the Turner gene than anything 

[Renegade7]

I jus cant care about the arm strength argument when we are on a three game win streak aiming for more. That horse has been beaten to death already.

 

One thing i noticed is our point total is starting to decline game after game again.  That concerns me more right now.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Renegade7

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I jus cant care about the arm strength argument when we are on a three game win streak aiming for more. That horse has been beaten to death already.

 

One thing i noticed is our point total is starting to decline game after game again.  That concerns me more right now.

I think we found a formula that works with our defense improving week by week. Power run football with long sustained drives. Not a lot of deep balls or aggressive calls.

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I think we found a formula that works with our defense improving week by week. Power run football with long sustained drives. Not a lot of deep balls or aggressive calls.

 

Exactly. 

 

This is where we are supposed to say if it works dont break it, but many are still convinced we have to to get to the promised land. I get the arguement, jus not in the mood for it right now. 

 

We are getting closer and closer to the answer of what if we had jus an average QB that can stay healthy with last years defense.  That intrigues me more.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Renegade7