Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm only using this as an example of what's really going on here.

 

You've been critical and skeptical of TH overall, but also credit him with being easy to root for and exciting to watch.  I think this is where many of us are, that get labeled 'haters'.  I'm not sure the guy truly has any haters, as there's nothing to hate.  Anything he gives us is a bonus.  Love everything about his story, his moxie, and his post game interview tugged on my heart strings.  

 

 

 

 

You hate everything about him. Don't lie.

[method man]

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I assume this incorrect take comes from the one blown 4rth down play yesterday, when an excellent player got the jump on him to get to the backfield, because Flowers is a road grader in the run game.

Exactly. He’s faced a string of very good to great DTs so far this season and has held his own. 

[justice98]

1 hour ago, srtman04 said:

 

Fitz looked terrible in pre-season and right before he went down.   I don't think so.  

 

I mean, that's pretty flimsy though.  Plus, we have to decide whether preseason matters or not.  He threw 6 passes in the regular season, 21 including the preseason. Heinike threw 15 in basically the second half of the Charger game.  Could Fitz have found his footing and beaten the Giants and Falcons?  Absolutely.  

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I mean, that's pretty flimsy though.  Plus, we have to decide whether preseason matters or not.  He threw 6 passes in the regular season, 21 including the preseason. Heinike threw 15 in basically the second half of the Charger game.  Could Fitz have found his footing and beaten the Giants and Falcons?  Absolutely.  

 

And more likely continue his anemic play.

 

And I was one of the guys that was happy we signed him. But for reasons we have not actually seen yet with WFT. Fitz looked more like Alex Smith that either Fitzmagic or Fitztragic. And that is not what I want to see out of him.

23 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Anyone have a PFF account?  I'll bet Flowers grade on run blocking is not very good.

 

I don't, best I can do.

 

[PartyPosse]

8 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Just to be clear, I'm talking about Heinicke's "talent" for making things happen when things need to happen. Almost like a "home run" running back being able to score from any place on the field...they can go 12 carries for 36 yards, and then peel off an 85 yard TD. I kind of view Heinicke as the QB equivalent of that. Even if some of his passes are floaters or he doesn't see an open WR, he will also pull a play or drive out of his ass that leaves you shaking your head either because you can't believe a wobbly, ill-advised pass was completed or you can't believe how Aaron Rodgers-like perfect a throw was lol...

 

 

And this sort of “luck” rarely happens against good teams. We saw that in the Buffalo game.

[zCommander]

40 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

And this sort of “luck” rarely happens against good teams. We saw that in the Buffalo game.

 

That's because Turner told him to be less mobile in the Bills game. He told him to run if he can in the ATL game. See the difference that made or made him "lucky". 

[petey hodge]

I swear, this is some of you guys when you hear that Taylor Heinicke threw another TD pass.

 

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

That's because Turner told him to be less mobile in the Bills game. He told him to run if he can in the ATL game. See the difference that made or made him "lucky". 

 

TH's game is built on his ability to move. Taking that away and trying to make him a statue is a mistake, and I hope they learned from that.

 

Commentators kept calling is "street ball" and I'm fine with that analogy. It's also REALLY hard to coach against.

 

They need to just let him do his thing. It's not going to be pretty at times, and it's certainly not going to looks like Tom Brady back there.

 

But it's effective.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

For some reason, some people want to discredit TH as much as possible for anything he does on the field

 

Did I say Heinicke had nothing to do with those? No.

 

But the reality is that both of them were more on the receivers than the QB. The ball to Terry was an up for grabs toss to 3 guys and Terry beat 2 of them and made an amazing play. The ball to McKissic was a good job of TH finding his check down, but McKissic did the heavy lifting and had an amazing YAC run and leaping TD.

 

And I think pretty much any QB would probably say the same thing on those plays if you asked them.

[Tedskins 21]

53 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

And this sort of “luck” rarely happens against good teams. We saw that in the Buffalo game.

 

All teams are good teams.  This is the NFL.  Taylor is a baller and I can't wait to see him play against the Saints.  41-31 Skins.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

The way you over analyze TH comes across as if he's the only thing holding this team back.  When the honest truth is that he's the only reason most of us aren't changing channels during the game!  Aside from Carter's TD, TH is literally involved in virtually every other highlight we've seen this year.  He's not the reason the defense is God awful and our kicker needs his leg calibrated.  If not for TH, the WFT is 0 - 4 with no hope for the rest of the season and picking first in a draft year where the crop of QBs seems to be very average.  

 

Newsflash.  We're not stupid.  We know he doesn't fit your idea of what a franchise QB looks like.  We don't care!  We're enjoying the ride while it lasts.  There haven't been many rides to enjoy since Gibbs 1.0.  

 

I have no clue what this post even has to do with me, really. You're basically grabbing a straw man and running it over 20 times in a row with a dump trunk, setting it on fire, and then shooting it with a RPG.

 

 

I never said anything about the defense not being putrid. I'm sure you've seen my posts (especially in the game day threads) where I've absolutely trashed them.

 

I never said Heinicke was the only thing holding this team back, or even part of anything holding this team back.

 

I never said you were stupid or even mentioned what I thought my idea of a franchise QB is, or whether or not Heinicke fits it.

 

I never said you cared what I think or that you should.

 

I never told you not to enjoy the ride and enjoy watching Heinicke. I never said I don't enjoy watching him. I do.

 

12 hours ago, petey hodge said:

 

How about credit for this throw?  Let us not forget when we were trailing 0-10.

(and of course, Terry made a sweet catch... but TH's ball was on the money)

 

 

 

That was an outstanding throw and outstanding catch. Did I inadvertently post something where I said this throw wasn't money?

Edited October 4, 2021 by mistertim

[No Nonsense]

Heinicke to McKissic is #1 on ESPN’s play of the day. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by No Nonsense

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That was an outstanding throw and outstanding catch. Did I inadvertently post something where I said this throw wasn't money?

 

He might have mistaken which TD to McLaurin you were referring to.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Anyone have a PFF account?  I'll bet Flowers grade on run blocking is not very good.

 

I do not have an account but this was on the Next Day Thread. Shows Flowers grades out pretty the same as the other Oline. I find it hard to believe he could be that awful in run blocking but remain even overall. 

 

Seeing it live he did miss a block or two, especially the 4th and 1. But in fairness we do not know the assignments. Many times the far end is unblocked assuming they cannot get across the back of the line in time to make that play. The D line just made a crazy athletic play. Just got a hand on the RB foot. If not it was a bad play. 

 

But overall he appeared to do pretty well from where i sat. The entire line did pretty good with Taylor also helping them out with his mobility. They were running to both sides pretty well when Scott would call a run. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

29 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

I swear, this is some of you guys when you hear that Taylor Heinicke threw another TD pass.

 

Case in point to what I’ve been saying…

 

Folks love to falsely manufacture ‘hate’.  I’ve been here long enough and experienced enough actual hate to properly identify it.  And what we are dealing with Heineke is none of the sort.

[Morneblade]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Did I say Heinicke had nothing to do with those? No.

 

But the reality is that both of them were more on the receivers than the QB. The ball to Terry was an up for grabs toss to 3 guys and Terry beat 2 of them and made an amazing play.

 

Nope. Single coverage and the DB fell down. Easy TD if not for the rush. Still the only guy open after all that. Only reason the safety is remotely close is TH's arm got hit and the ball fluttered.

 

 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I do not have an account but this was on the Next Day Thread. Shows Flowers grades out pretty the same as the other Oline. I find it hard to believe he could be that awful in run blocking but remain even overall. 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

I swear, this is some of you guys when you hear that Taylor Heinicke threw another TD pass.

 

 

This is dumb as hell. Please stop with the manufacturing of bull****. Only licensed manure distributors are allowed to engage in those heavily regulated practices, and I don't want to have to report you to the EPA.

Edited October 4, 2021 by mistertim

[CapsSkins]

Here's a fun little hypothetical for y'all:

 

Let's say Heinicke plays similarly to the way he has thus far for the rest of the season. The offense regularly puts up 25-35 points basically every game. There are few Buffalo-type stinkers where he throws multiple picks. But also more Game-Winning Drives. Let's say he keeps up his ratio of Game Winning Drive to Underperformance at 2:1 or 3:1. The team finishes middle of the pack based on what happens to the defense, we have a Wild Card-race type of season.

 

Now the hypothetical: IMO, Heinicke feels like what we thought Fitz would be. The exciting FitzMagic/FitzTragic, you never know which one you'll get, smart player, receivers love him bc he gives them a chance, gunslinger mentality. Though we rarely saw him on the field, Fitzpatrick looked more like Alex Smith. Aging statue in the pocket. There are questions about Heinicke's limitations which we've all seen.

 

The staff valued Fitz at $10M/yr as a stopgap starter. If Heinicke is basically giving you Fitz-level results, do you give Heinicke a $10M/yr Fitz-type deal to lock him up for a few years and ride the wave while seeing if you can land a QB prospect you love? I don't think anybody else would give Heinicke that kind of money because so much of his game is knowing Scott Turner's offense. I think he'd sign it, and then meanwhile you got at the very least a pretty good stop-gap starter locked up and you no longer have this year-to-year QB carousel nightmare. You find a prospect you really covet, you can go get him and let him learn behind TH until he's ready. On the flipside, you don't need to force a pick on a QB if you don't love the prospect. And in the meantime, if Heinicke turns out to be the next Romo/Garcia/Flutie/whatever, then you already got him at a bargain cap hit.

 

The big thing to me is it seems like Heinicke's floor in this offense is the Fitz-Magic/Tragic excitement we thought we were getting for the $10M we paid Ryan.     

[ThomasRoane]

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I do not have an account but this was on the Next Day Thread. Shows Flowers grades out pretty the same as the other Oline. I find it hard to believe he could be that awful in run blocking but remain even overall. 

 

Seeing it live he did miss a block or two, especially the 4th and 1. But in fairness we do not know the assignments. Many times the far end is unblocked assuming they cannot get across the back of the line in time to make that play. The D line just made a crazy athletic play. Just got a hand on the RB foot. If not it was a bad play. 

 

But overall he appeared to do pretty well from where i sat. The entire line did pretty good with Taylor also helping them out with his mobility. They were running to both sides pretty well when Scott would call a run. 

 

 

 

On pass-pro, I really like Flowers.  I seriously don't believe he's whiffing on purpose.  He's a big dude.  It's hard for him to get low enough when the DLine is going to submarine or can just shoot the gap.  

 

I put that more on the Oline coach.   If my Center doesn't have a man heads up then I'd be telling him to help Flowers immediately.  I think there was one occasion where we ran to the right and it looked like the coach was expecting Flowers to reach block on his play side (to the right) gap.  That's a big ask for a big guy like that.  If the Oline coach can give him a little help he'll be fine.  

 

I'd like to see TH become more Rodgers and Newton like with his cadence.  A good cadence where you get the DL to jump a few times really goes a long way towards helping your Oline out.  That's something TH can master.  Those little things, if added up, can help make up for other deficiencies that he has.  (Note for the record:  I'm fully admitting that TH does not have an NFL arm)

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

 

Fair enough lol.  Not great but still not awful. Again, seeing the game live he also opened some huge holes and made some great plays. I still do not think he is the bad. But that's just me. I also honestly do not personally put a whole lot of stock in PFF. I posted it as someone asked. There is no way Taylor should get a 58. That's an absolute joke. They had his with a 38 against the Giants and had Jones at almost 70 when they basically played the same game. 

 

 

[HOF44]

Maybe we have the next Fran Tarkenton on our hands. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Nope. Single coverage and the DB fell down. Easy TD if not for the rush. Still the only guy open after all that. Only reason the safety is remotely close is TH's arm got hit and the ball fluttered.

 

 

 

Thanks. That's a much better angle on it. You're right, he was single covered. But the S was able to get to him because the play broke down and hence the throw was late (which isn't Heinicke's fault).

 

My conclusion with this new info is that 1) It wasn't as bad as I thought and 2) It was still not a very smart throw on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left and being down by 8.

[redskinss]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Case in point to what I’ve been saying…

 

Folks love to falsely manufacture ‘hate’.  I’ve been here long enough and experienced enough actual hate to properly identify it.  And what we are dealing with Heineke is none of the sort.

Totally agree.

Not burying your head in the sand on the things that are warning signs of potentially unsustainable behavior is a far cry from hate.

It reminds me of all the people who Warned of our poor linebacker play and secondary that was full of gaping holes despite us being ranked number 2 overall in yards given up.

 

How has that worked out for us, I know it too well because I was a believer in the elite potential of this defense and I refuse to be an ostrich for this team any longer.

From this day forth I vow to never again get on the hype train before its left the station.

 

[PartyPosse]

47 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

That's because Turner told him to be less mobile in the Bills game. He told him to run if he can in the ATL game. See the difference that made or made him "lucky". 

The running is what makes him lucky?

[ThomasRoane]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

This is dumb as hell. Please stop with the manufacturing of bull****. Only licensed manure distributors are allowed to engage in those heavily regulated practices, and I don't want to have to report you to the EPA.

 

@mistertim Thanks!  I appreciate the link.  Hope you don't take any of my posts personal.  They're not meant to be.  Still respect you man.

 

Hmm 62.1 is in yellow so I'm guessing not great?  Not surprised about pass pro though.  He's one nasty dude there.   I mean that as a compliment too.  He crushes people.  

 

That said, give him a little help on run blocking with the center.  Once he gets a handle on his guy it's all over.  He just needs some help with those quick DTs.