Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[JamesMadisonSkins]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't take media guys opinions as gospel. DJ is a smart guy and I respect him. But he's not all that clued in to the WFT org in my estimation and he's looking at it strictly from a "what does he do vs. what do they value" mindset. 

 

I don't disagree that the things Darnold does well fit our offense (though I don't think he's mobile enough to fit the profile completely). But the context of the statement seems to overlook why he doesn't fit. 

 

I haven't watched nearly enough on Darnold to really have an opinion. I do know he was young coming out (r-so) and had the worst possible setup in NYJ with Bowles as a defensive minded coach in year 1 and the disaster that is Adam Gase in Year 2-3. If Ron-Mart thinks they could get some legit ROI on him and get him for a 2nd or even a pair of 3rds, it might not be a terrible move. I would trust their judgment, but not be totally excited for it.

 

That being said, if we had Darnold in the fold going into the draft and still had our 1st, it could open up a lot in FA and the draft. Get a WR, LB in free agency and use the 1st and 2nd (or 1st and 3rd / 3rd) to solidify the weapons around him.

 

McLaurin, Terrace Marshall, Curtis Samuel at WR with a stacked defense and an additional piece along the OL for long-term depth would put Darnold in a position to succeed. We'd know pretty quickly if the investment is a failure, and wouldn't have given up the future to figure it out (all while still building up the offense and defense).

Edited February 4, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[bakedtater1]

If it's not watson or carr no thank you...maybe a lower level qb in fa and draft a qb in the 3rd and let the fa qb and Heineken battle it out.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

 

The draft is TBD, but right now the #19 pick could be a bad spot for a WR or OT. We could always trade off #19 and recoup the pick(s) we send for Darnold, and really limit the "sunk cost" for Darnold if he flops while still getting the talent we need to try and get him to succeed.

 

You won't find me banging this drum before a move is made, but I can get on board with it if the investment in the risk is fairly low. Darnold for #51 and a conditional 2022 pick based on us winning the division ... or Mac Jones? I think I'd risk it with the guy that went in the Top 5 recently and had an awful surrounding situation.

 

If Waddle, Darrisaw or Slater fall to #19 I think you draft them there. But if the best option is Terrace Marshall, maybe you consider trading back into the late 1st or early 2nd and recouping the pick. You get the QB for 2021 at least, and still have the same # of picks to address positions that fit that range better.

Darnold + a 2/3/3/3 could still get you a playmaker at WR, an OT to groom, a starting-caliber LB and a TE/DB while still having your QB on the roster for 2021. (assuming we trade #51 and a conditional 2022 pick for Darnold)

Edited February 4, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

That being said, if we had Darnold in the fold going into the draft and still had our 1st, it could open up a lot in FA and the draft. Get a WR, LB in free agency and use the 1st and 2nd (or 1st and 3rd / 3rd) to solidify the weapons around him.

 

 

I don't think it opens anything more than what's open right now to us. Even if Darnold turns into Joe Montana, receivers won't know that now. He's been awful. He holds the ball too long (8.8% sack percentage this past season), he completes under 60% of his passes... He has 45 career TDs and 59 picks/fumbles. He's missed 3, 3 and 4 games in his three seasons with the Jets. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Blanka said:

Gonna order my Sam jersey now. @Skinsinparadise I’ll buy you one too 😉

 

For anyone pushing Darnold, I'd be interested in the why?  It seems to be the pro Darnold rap is a combination of some draft geek types still like him.  He played for the Jets and they stink.   And he was a high draft pick.   The thing is we could say the same about other top 10 busts like Rosen, Gabbert, Trubisky, Locker. etc. 

 

I'll summarize my position about Darnold.  To me he's a poor man's Daniel Jones.  I can see him being a marginal Keenum type QB.  He's a turnover machine like Jones but without the production.  He's a conservative/not a big play QB yet he still can't help the turnovers.    He also seemed to get banged up.

 

To me the positives are he's a really nice guy, high intangibles, and he's young.  And he's a big dude, he looks like a QB.  And for a big dude he rolls out in the pocket well.  But otherwise?  He's not the most accurate dude, he has a good arm but not a great one.  He moves well in the pocket but he isn't really fast.  And his propensity for turnovers -- TDs and INTs issues existed in college and still exists in the pros -- the sampe size is getting pretty large on that front to indicate a pattern. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

I definitely think Carr is now plan B, i am taking a wild guess that the Raiders are wanting Montez Sweat off us. Both Rivera and Mayhew went out of their way to stress that DL was core and that’s the foundation we are keeping together and building from. The comments from the 3 front office Exec’s most certainly had some planted messages in there IMO.
 

I’d say the QB trade discussions around the league are pretty wild right now.

[CommDownMan]

43 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I just did Ron-Mart.

RON Rivera

MARTin Mayhew 

MARTy Hurney

 

Its like Wal-Mart

 

I get it, but like multiple WalMarts, 2 Ron-Marts is a franchise.  Made me think of deadpool. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by jsharrin55

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Eagles, like the Raiders, are using the media to let it be known that they’re listening.  Schefter said yesterday Wentz is unhappy and will probably be traded. 
 

 

 

The Eagles are in a bad spot. They have a ton of money tied up in Wentz so trading him would make sense for the future, but it would also mean eating almost $60 million in dead cap this year. They're also super in the red already with regards to cap space.

 

The only way around that is if they could find a team willing to take on the dead cap. And who the hell is going to do that for a QB who seems to be washed up at this point?

 

I suppose I could see it if the trade was lower on draft capital and then included the dead cap for the new team to balance it out. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

Just a thought both Jeremiah and McShay seem to be pimping Darnold of late.  I know McShay is tight with the Jets GM, they were college roomates.  I believe Jeremiah is tight with him, too?    I bet there is no coincidence they are selling Darnold. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The Eagles are in a bad spot. They have a ton of money tied up in Wentz so trading him would make sense for the future, but it would also mean eating almost $60 million in dead cap this year. They're also super in the red already with regards to cap space.

 

The only way around that is if they could find a team willing to take on the dead cap. And who the hell is going to do that for a QB who seems to be washed up at this point?

 

I suppose I could see it if the trade was lower on draft capital and then included the dead cap for the new team to balance it out. 

If they trade him pre 1 June the dead cap is about half of that.

[heyholetsgogrant]

40 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Don't shoot the messenger.  LOL

Finally something everyone in this thread can agree on! Darnold = 🤮

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant
Fat fingers

[CommDownMan]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The Eagles are in a bad spot. They have a ton of money tied up in Wentz so trading him would make sense for the future, but it would also mean eating almost $60 million in dead cap this year. They're also super in the red already with regards to cap space.

 

The only way around that is if they could find a team willing to take on the dead cap. And who the hell is going to do that for a QB who seems to be washed up at this point?

 

I suppose I could see it if the trade was lower on draft capital and then included the dead cap for the new team to balance it out. 

 

A trade would cut the 60 mill to 34 (still a big number), but give them one mill in savings.  edit: UK said above, but pictures

 

Interestingly, the Eagles are 50+ over the cap this year, but projected as 40 mill UNDER the cap the following year.  Designated post-June 1st trade (second table) would push 25 mill which isn't good for them, but cuts the over number in half this year.

 

 

Post June 1st trade 9 mill this year (meaning a 25 mill hit pushed to next year). 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by jsharrin55

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I definitely think Carr is now plan B, i am taking a wild guess that the Raiders are wanting Montez Sweat off us. Both Rivera and Mayhew went out of their way to stress that DL was core and that’s the foundation we are keeping together and building from. The comments from the 3 front office Exec’s most certainly had some planted messages in there IMO.
 

I’d say the QB trade discussions around the league are pretty wild right now.

 

I just watched another TV segment with Ron in it.  I think you might have nailed it with him not wanting to give up a player.  When he talked about keeping players around the QB he goes with a scenario of giving multiple ones, other picks AND a player.  The way he emphasized the player part you can tell he didn't like it.   He also talked about wanting to keep the D line intact.

 

lol, it came across that he was specifically shooting down the wilder Watson trade proposals without saying that's what he was doing.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just a thought both Jeremiah and McShay seem to be pimping Darnold of late.  I know McShay is tight with the Jets GM, they were college roomates.  I believe Jeremiah is tight with him, too?    I bet there is no coincidence they are selling Darnold. 

 

Only thing is and you know this, Darnold's name has been "out there" for a while.  I recall reporters mentioning Darnold after Alex went down before the season ended and then Ron made the #1 priority is a QB comments at the end of the season.  Not saying it means anything and who knows.

 

I'm of the same belief as you, not going to "die on the hill" for any of these guys outside of Stafford (gone) or Watson (unlikley) but will stand by their decision and see how things play out.  🙂

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

lol, it came across that he was specifically shooting down the wilder Watson trade proposals without saying that's what he was doing.

 

Could be a smoke screen but I love hearing this. I knew Rivera wouldn't be short sighted enough to do this stuff. But he had me in the first half for a minute. Not gonna lie. 

Just now, HigSkin said:

 

Only thing is and you know this, Darnold's name has been "out there" for a while.  I recall reporters mentioning Darnold after Alex went down before the season ended and then Ron made the #1 priority is a QB comments at the end of the season.  Not saying it means anything and who knows.

 

I'm of the same belief as you, not going to "die on the hill" for any of these guys outside of Stafford (gone) or Watson (unlikley) but will stand by their decision and see how things play out.  🙂

 

I will not stand by a Darnold decision. 

 

I will hope for the best with it, of course. And I won't cheer against the guy. But I'm going to be vocal about my displeasure.

 

I don't think it happens. At all. But we'll see.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Could be a smoke screen but I love hearing this. I knew Rivera wouldn't be short sighted enough to do this stuff. But he had me in the first half for a minute. Not gonna lie. 

 

Rivera though strikes me so much of straight shooter.  So I bet he meant it.  It was clear as heck to me that he doesn't want to break up the band on the D line and doesn't like trading both picks and a player. Came off that he's easier about the picks than the player. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

I definitely would like to keep the DL group intact if possible, but how are we planning on paying them all? I guess it depends on how much they want, but if they all decide that they deserve top 5 money, it's going to be really tough to do. Especially assuming we re-sign Scherff and Darby this season. Then we'll have to worry about Terry soon too.

[CommDownMan]

What I find interesting between Wentz and Goff deals, they were similar in max value (Wentz 128 vs Goff 134), but Goff had more roster bonuses that lowered the pro-rated bonus. 

 

Basically, the Lions take on more money because the roster bonuses aren't paid.  The dead hit for the Eagles is 12 million more, despite a overall contract that was 6 million less.

 

As much as I'm torn on the trade overall for the Rams, they structured the deal better to get out of it early. 

[Lovi]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just a thought both Jeremiah and McShay seem to be pimping Darnold of late.  I know McShay is tight with the Jets GM, they were college roomates.  I believe Jeremiah is tight with him, too?    I bet there is no coincidence they are selling Darnold. 

 

Right.  Wentz and their first for our second 3rd.  HAHA

[heyholetsgogrant]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I definitely would like to keep the DL group intact if possible, but how are we planning on paying them all? I guess it depends on how much they want, but if they all decide that they deserve top 5 money, it's going to be really tough to do. Especially assuming we re-sign Scherff and Darby this season. Then we'll have to worry about Terry soon too.

This is why we shouldn't do dumb things like trade away the future for Watson.  We'll have to let guys walk because we won't be able to pay them, and the draft will be needed to replenish those players. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[dyst]

How the hell do the Eagles keep finding interest in their trash. They were able to get out of McNabb, Bradford and now possibly Wentz. I hate that organization.

[Lovi]

1 minute ago, dyst said:

How the hell do the Eagles keep finding interest in their trash. They were able to get out of McNabb, Bradford and now possibly Wentz. I hate that organization.

 

I think the only way the Eagles get out of that is if they pay someone to take him.  

[CommDownMan]

6 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Only thing is and you know this, Darnold's name has been "out there" for a while.  I recall reporters mentioning Darnold after Alex went down before the season ended and then Ron made the #1 priority is a QB comments at the end of the season.  Not saying it means anything and who knows.

 

I'm of the same belief as you, not going to "die on the hill" for any of these guys outside of Stafford (gone) or Watson (unlikley) but will stand by their decision and see how things play out.  🙂

 

Darnold feels much more like a Josh Rosen deal then a Stafford deal.  These first round mentions seem silly.

 

He's been out there like you say and unlike Rosen, the decision on the 5yr option is basically now.  He has showed a bit more than Rosen, but not so much that you can have a high level of confidence (at least I don't).  The cost control is nearly gone, so that reduces the value.

 

Rosen was 2nd and 5th.  I have a hard time believing Darnold is worth more.  Yes he's shown more, but between cost increase and years on control, I don't think you can go higher.  Especially when a team that has the #2 pick is likely to do the same thing Arizona did and take a new guy to take over. 

 

Wait the entire offseason and see what happens during the draft.  If you like Darnold better than a 3 round guy, then and only then do I consider him.  And that's only if the coaching staff deems he's a greater value than what we've got.  Would have about a week after to decide on the 5th year option (if Jets haven't already selected).

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just watched another TV segment with Ron in it.  I think you might have nailed it with him not wanting to give up a player.  When he talked about keeping players around the QB he goes with a scenario of giving multiple ones, other picks AND a player.  The way he emphasized the player part you can tell he didn't like it.   He also talked about wanting to keep the D line intact.

 

lol, it came across that he was specifically shooting down the wilder Watson trade proposals without saying that's what he was doing.

Gotta be an interior DL not our DEs.  I just don't see us giving either Sweat or or course Young up.

[kingdaddy]

38 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think it opens anything more than what's open right now to us. Even if Darnold turns into Joe Montana, receivers won't know that now. He's been awful. He holds the ball too long (8.8% sack percentage this past season), he completes under 60% of his passes... He has 45 career TDs and 59 picks/fumbles. He's missed 3, 3 and 4 games in his three seasons with the Jets. 

Darnold sees ghosts.....Heinicke sees WR's. Darnold holds the ball....Heiny runs llke a gazelle. Verdict: Heinicke > Darnold