The Washington Defensive Line Thread

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Everyone acts as if all we have to do is make an offer and the deal gets done. it takes both sides to start a party.

 

We offered Scherff the highest contract in the league at his position and he balked. Is that Ron’s fault? If Allen wants to set the market and we balk, is that Ron’s fault?

 

This is just the way the league works. It sucks because you want all your draft picks to be All Pro, but then you can’t afford them in a few years. Do we extend Payne? Matty Ioannidis? Gonna have to make some tough decisions. 
 

I’m just gonna try to enjoy this team while they are all here. 

[wit33]

1 minute ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Everyone acts as if all we have to do is make an offer and the deal gets done. it takes both sides to start a party.

 

We offered Scherff the highest contract in the league at his position and he balked. Is that Ron’s fault? If Allen wants to set the market and we balk, is that Ron’s fault?

 

This is just the way the league works. It sucks because you want all your draft picks to be All Pro, but then you can’t afford them in a few years. Do we extend Payne? Matty Ioannidis? Gonna have to make some tough decisions. 
 

I’m just gonna try to enjoy this team while they are all here. 

Just think it’s a speculative concern about a  pattern taking form with the great to elite players on the roster. Trent Williams, Scherff, and now some issues with Allen maybe. It’s difficult to get into any real discussion due to the limited information in all the situations.

 

The whole Scherff was offered the biggest contract has zero value in making any conclusions— no details about the contract have come out. Most likely the team leaked it, I hope not… no reason for a team to play that game (like they did in the past). Bad business. 
 

All things can be true, concerns about resigning studs on roster and the team projecting variables financially and what each guy wants falling outside of that. Only time will tell. Who am I to say Tim Settle doesn’t project to being a similar level of player to that of the current Allen in their opinion and figure they can sign Settle at a quarter of the cost. Providing them the opportunity to sing both Sweat and Young to $25mil per year deals. If winning comes as a result, awesome. If not, these decisions will be discussed by us fanatics for years to come lol. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I get the argument. Especially the details on Scherff’s deal. But if we’re thinking long term, Chase and Terry’s deals are gonna be massive. Sweat too. Sacrifices will have to be made to get those done.

[Warhead36]

That's why you don't wait so long. You approach them after year 3(when they're first eligible for new deals). If they haven't really broken out yet, but appear to be legit players on the verge, then you pay them slightly above the going rate for a good player at their position(but not market setting). You pay a little bit of a premium early to ensure you keep your homegrown player and the player gets some insurances in case they get hurt. If they do end up breaking out and outplaying their new deal you can always revisit in a year or two and the player will be thankful you took care of them early.

 

The problem is we always seem to wait until the guy is already on the precipice of FA. By then they're better off not signing anything(unless its just something absurd)because they're established and can just take their chances in FA. That's what Scherff has done and I'm sure that's what Allen is going to do too as he should.

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

That's why you don't wait so long. You approach them after year 3(when they're first eligible for new deals). If they haven't really broken out yet, but appear to be legit players on the verge, then you pay them slightly above the going rate for a good player at their position(but not market setting). You pay a little bit of a premium early to ensure you keep your homegrown player and the player gets some insurances in case they get hurt. If they do end up breaking out and outplaying their new deal you can always revisit in a year or two and the player will be thankful you took care of them early.

 

The problem is we always seem to wait until the guy is already on the precipice of FA. By then they're better off not signing anything(unless its just something absurd)because they're established and can just take their chances in FA. That's what Scherff has done and I'm sure that's what Allen is going to do too as he should.

  

This will be Scherff's third contract.  Its tough because unlike guys finishing their rookie years going into the prime of their career, Scherff is likely to be not quite as good in the next three years as he was for the last three years.

[Dark Acre]

30 minutes ago, philibusters said:

  

This will be Scherff's third contract.  Its tough because unlike guys finishing their rookie years going into the prime of their career, Scherff is likely to be not quite as good in the next three years as he was for the last three years.

But just as injured!

[KillBill26]

There is a scenario where both scherff and Allen walk, and RR did the right thing by letting them.  There is also a scenario where scherff and Allen and both resigned, and RR did the right thing by resigning them.   Its all about the size/structure of the deals.  Those looking at it as an automatic loss for RR if they walk, even if the contract is enormous and poor value, are impatiently neglecting the long term betterment of the team.

[Skinsinparadise]

Ranking the NFL's top 10 interior defensive linemen for 2021: Execs, coaches, players make their picks

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31753508/ranking-nfl-top-10-interior-defensive-linemen-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

We surveyed more than 50 league executives, coaches, scouts and players to help us stack the top 10 players at 11 different positions, from edge rusher to interior offensive linemen and all the way through tight ends. This is the second edition of these rankings, and there are several players who moved up and dropped from last year's lists.

Here's how our process worked: Voters gave their best 10 to 15 players at a position, then we compiled the results and ranked candidates based on number of top-10 votes, composite average, interviews, research and film-study help from ESPN NFL analyst Matt Bowen. We had several ties, so we broke them by isolating the two-man matchup with additional voting and follow-up calls. Each section is packed with quotes and nuggets from the voters on every guy -- even the honorable mentions.

 

1. Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 4
Age: 30 | Last year's ranking: 1

For the second straight year, Donald earned more first-place votes than any player regardless of position.

"I would put a space between him and all the defensive tackles or edge guys, honestly," an AFC scout said. "He's by himself."

Yes, someone voted Donald fourth. That particular voter prioritized youth and upside. But Donald has shown zero signs of slowing down at age 30. His 24.2% pass-rush win rate leads all defensive tackles by a wide margin, and that's with facing a double-team on 219 of his 314 rushes, the most in the league. Donald created 30 incompletions, second to edge rusher T.J. Watt.

"You're not stopping him," an NFC exec said. "[You] just hope to get the ball out fast."

---

2. Chris Jones, Kansas City Chiefs

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 5
Age: 26 | Last year's ranking: 2

Jones keeps his No. 2 ranking thanks to another imposing season. His 20.4% pass-rush win rate is tied for second among defensive tackles, and though his 7.5 sacks were his lowest total since 2017, the Chiefs were pleased with his overall growth.

"He has gotten better in a number of areas," said an AFC coordinator. "If he's one-on-one in a pass-rush situation, rarely does he lose that matchup. Tremendously better as a run-stopping player."

Jones won 25% of his single-teamed pass rushes, third-best among tackles. And the Chiefs will work to get him free this year as more of an edge rusher. Jones held up against double-teams, too, with a 17.5% pass-rush win rate when taking on two blockers.

Not everyone is a fan, though.

"Used to be really high on him, but there are some inconsistencies in his game," said an AFC scout. "He's productive, but he'll give up stuff, too."

---

3. DeForest Buckner, Indianapolis Colts

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 6
Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: 4

Buckner set the tone of disruption in his first year with the Colts, posting 58 tackles, 9.5 sacks, three pass deflections and two forced fumbles. Pro Football Focus gave Buckner a stellar 89.7 grade on the season.

"He's a damn problem," an NFC exec said. "Once he gets those long arms on you, he can drive you back. Doesn't stop coming each play. Incredible motor."

The Colts defense improved from 16th to 8th in total defense ranking year-over-year, and the trade with the 49ers for Buckner was a catalyst. Indianapolis allowed 3.7 yards per rush when Buckner was on the field and 4.9 yards per rush when he was on the sideline.

Buckner is also highly effective as an edge defender, winning on 33.3% of his edge rushes to lead all NFL defensive players. He tied for the team lead in total pressures.

---

4. Cam Heyward, Pittsburgh Steelers

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 11
Age: 32 | Last year's ranking: 6

Heyward isn't in the top five for everyone, but he rarely falls past No. 7 on the ballots. One of the league's most consistent performers inside is still playing at a high level. The only real knock is he might have missed a few sacks (four on the year, down from an 8.5 average the previous two seasons).

But his 21 incompletions created is the third-best mark on this list, using his length (34.25-inch arms) and power to penetrate the line.

"Steady, consistent, productive, technician," an AFC scout said. "Once he gets those long arms in your chest, he can push you back."

Added an NFC exec: "He really came on late in the year. For that stretch he was back to doing what he does. ... When you ply Pittsburgh, he was the guy we said we had to stop. The reason why is you can't block that joker inside."

---

5. Fletcher Cox, Philadelphia Eagles

Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: 12
Age: 30 | Last year's ranking: 3

Cox has made six Pro Bowls in nine seasons, and is one of the defining defensive tackles of the last decade, a blur of speed and power inside or on the edge.

In 2020, Cox was still productive, with 6.5 sacks and a 74.1 Pro Football Focus rating. But his nine QB hits was his lowest total since 2014.

"A little bit on the descent, but you know where he is at all times," said an NFC scout. "He's still tops on the scouting report when you prepare for Philly's defense. There was a time not too long ago when he was No. 2 [among interior D-linemen] and you wouldn't look back."

Added an NFC exec: "He's still a problem to me. He was on a bad defense."

---

6. Jeffery Simmons, Tennessee Titans

Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: 15
Age: 23 | Last year's ranking: N/A

Simmons might be the least accomplished on this list, but he is also one of the scariest.

"No one is Aaron Donald, but he might be the closest," said an NFL general manager.

Added an NFC exec: "He's the one everyone knows is coming. Talent-wise, he's probably top-three. He's respected as such, at least how we block him."

Opponents double-teamed Simmons on 190 pass-rush snaps, higher than every interior rusher aside from Donald and Grady Jarrett. Simmons led all players in the top 10 in interior line run-stop win rate, at 39.8%.

The pass-rush production isn't there yet -- he had just three sacks in 2020, along with a 6.7% pass-rush win rate -- but it will be as he stacks healthy seasons. A torn ACL limited his rookie campaign in 2019.

"Highest upside -- he just does different stuff, and was basically playing on one leg and was pretty good early on," an AFC scout said.

---

7. Leonard Williams, New York Giants

Highest ranking: 4 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: N/A

The most polarizing player on the list, Williams was labeled an underachiever before his 11.5-sack breakout in 2020 prompted a massive contract extension with the Giants.

"He doesn't know what he can be yet," said a Pro Bowl defensive player.

Added an NFC scout: "That combination of size and athleticism is just rare."

The positional flexibility is a challenge for defenses. Williams can line up inside, or become the Giants' best pass-rusher off the edge. But evaluators aren't sure whether his breakout this past season is an anomaly.

"Talented, just doesn't put it together consistently," the NFC scout said.

One veteran NFL defensive coach said he "wasn't sure what he was looking at' when he evaluated Williams' tape during the player's tenure with the Jets.

"Last year was not shocking based on ability, and my guess is he'll have a similar year [in 2021]," the coach said. "But it's hard to tell with him."

---

8. Stephon Tuitt, Pittsburgh Steelers

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 28 | Last year's ranking: N/A

Tuitt broke out in his seventh season with 11 sacks, two forced fumbles and 25 quarterback hits.

"Incredibly gifted player," an NFC scout said. "Comes and goes, but when he's on, he's a massive problem."

That problem manifests in defensive attention. Tuitt demanded 187 double teams on pass rushes (sixth most in the league) despite playing alongside stars Heyward, T.J. Watt and Bud Dupree.

"Take away the injuries and inconsistencies from past years and he's top-five, easily," an AFC exec said. "[Heyward] has been that guy on the [Steelers] D-line for a while, but it kind of started to flip this year where Tuitt got some of the attention."

---

9. Vita Vea, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Highest ranking: 5 | Lowest ranking: 14
Age: 26 | Last year's ranking: N/A

Watching Vea crash through an offensive line can be an experience through space and time.

"Serious physics of mass and explosion," one NFL GM said when asked to describe Vea.

The 6-foot-4, 347-pounder doesn't have the gaudy stats, but doesn't need them. His one tackle in two playoff games doesn't begin to describe his impact.

The size with the quickness (near-5.0 40-yard dash time at the 2018 combine) was a problem for the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.

"Once he got back in the playoffs, they were different. You couldn't do anything against them," said an NFC executive. "Vita can rush [the] passer, has force -- more a Deebo [the "Friday" character], not a craftsman. If he wants to get in, he gets in."

---

10. Grady Jarrett, Atlanta Falcons

Highest ranking: 4 | Lowest ranking: 14
Age: 28 | Last year's ranking: 9

Jarrett's ability to rush the passer keeps him a fixture in the top 10. He's second to Donald among defensive tackles in several pass-rush categories, including win rate (20.4%) and win rate while single-teamed (30.1%).

But evaluators say he's not a fit for every scheme, is small against the run (6-foot, 305 pounds) and can get washed out of plays with double-teams. Not everyone agrees.

"He's a game-wrecker when we play them. He plays his ass off," an NFC executive said. "He'll sack the quarterback or hustle downfield to chase down a screen play for 15 yards. Never stops playing hard."

Jarrett's interior run-stop win rate is second-best on this list, at 39.3%.

Interior defensive linemen also receiving votes

Kenny Clark, Green Bay Packers: "He was great in the [NFC] Championship Game, maybe the most disruptive in that game for them. He's not a big name but really, really good and underrated." -- NFC executive

Jonathan Allen, Washington Football Team: "Complete player. Really good technique, plays the run really well, pass well, good locker-room guy -- just a good football player." -- AFC defensive coach

Quinnen Williams, New York Jets: "He's going to have a huge year. They had him in that two-gap scheme, but [new Jets coach] Robert [Saleh] will just have him attacking. He's good enough to jump a gap and get back in a gap. Teams have to scheme for him more than most." -- NFC executive

J.J. Watt, Arizona Cardinals: "If he stays healthy, he's still a monster. He got tripled some games. Teams still give him that attention. Tackles can handle him but against the guard he's still a problem. Not out of realm [of possibility] to have a 10-sack season." -- NFC executive

 

Akiem Hicks, Chicago Bears: "He's still one of those guys whom you hate to play against. He's such a force. But you wonder if his best years are ahead of him." -- AFC defensive coach

David Onyemata, New Orleans Saints: "Extraordinary talents. Getting better every year." -- NFC executive

Jarran Reed, Kansas City Chiefs: "The Chiefs got an absolute steal picking him up this offseason." -- AFC scout

Arik Armstead, San Francisco 49ers: "He's a really good player, but you're always aware of him but never scared of him." -- NFC executive

Calais Campbell, Baltimore Ravens: "He can still be productive in that defense, just not sure how much he has left." -- AFC executive

[Koolblue13]

Itll be nice to some of those older guys start the back slide, while ours rise. Who the hell knows what happens Stat wise this year. We have 5 players on our D line capable of double digit sack totals. 

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Itll be nice to some of those older guys start the back slide, while ours rise. Who the hell knows what happens Stat wise this year. We have 5 players on our D line capable of double digit sack totals. 

 

That list seems about right to me.   Most of us wanted Leonard Williams and that dude has really come on of late.  Vea who I liked before the draft (but sadly went before our pick) is quietly a monster.  It hit me in a big way when I was at the Tampa/WFT game years back, when you could see him really blow up our guards.  Vea's 90 PFF rating might actually be about right.

 

I do think they might be sleeping on Ionnaidis.  His pass rush win rate was one of the best in the league for tackles.  And according to one metric, he was by the far the tackle that was double teamed the most on this team.  Granted that was in 2019 and he missed 2020.  Hence perhaps his omission here. 

 

I'd put my money on Ionnaidis over Payne and by a mile if we are talking about one player reaching 10 sacks.   Judging by his career both here and Alabama, Payne is more of a 2 to 3 sacks a year kind of dude, at least thus far.   But he's my favorite run stopper among the tackles.  IMO he's not a monster like Vea is but is a consistently good player.    Jonathan Allen as I've said a bunch recently IMO is our best DT.  He's not a monster pass rusher but he IMO has the potential to break out.  He's a good run stuffer, too.  Of our tackles, he IMO is the most well rounded player. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That list seems about right to me.   Most of us wanted Leonard Williams and that dude has really come on of late.  Vea who I liked before the draft (but sadly went before our pick) is quietly a monster.  It hit me in a big way when I was at the Tampa/WFT game years back, when you could see him really blow up our guards.  Vea's 90 PFF rating might actually be about right.

 

I do think they might be sleeping on Ionnaidis.  His pass rush win rate was one of the best in the league for tackles.  And according to one metric, he was by the far the tackle that was double teamed the most on this team.  Granted that was in 2019 and he missed 2020.  Hence perhaps his omission here. 

 

I'd put my money on Ionnaidis over Payne and by a mile if we are talking about one player reaching 10 sacks.   Judging by his career both here and Alabama, Payne is more of a 2 to 3 sacks a year kind of dude, at least thus far.   But he's my favorite run stopper among the tackles.  IMO he's not a monster like Vea is but is a consistently good player.    Jonathan Allen as I've said a bunch recently IMO is our best DT.  He's not a monster pass rusher but he IMO has the potential to break out.  He's a good run stuffer, too.  Of our tackles, he IMO is the most well rounded player. 

I dont think Payne and Ioannidis are comparable players. Ioannidis is a DE/DT who is expected to be a pass rusher. Payne is our Nose. When asked to, he has produced double digit sack games and FFs. I have to wonder what would happen if he played pure DT and Settle played NT. If Allen was injured, I think is the only way we'd know, and I don't want to find out. I agree Allen is our best IDL. 

[carex]

since when are Watt and Calais Campbell interior linemen

[Warhead36]

What idiot had Aaron Donald at 4? LMAO

 

I think Allen could be on that list but its debatable between him and guys like Jarrett and Tuitt.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I dont think Payne and Ioannidis are comparable players. Ioannidis is a DE/DT who is expected to be a pass rusher. Payne is our Nose. When asked to, he has produced double digit sack games and FFs. I have to wonder what would happen if he played pure DT and Settle played NT. If Allen was injured, I think is the only way we'd know, and I don't want to find out. I agree Allen is our best IDL. 

 

You mentioned 5 lineman with double digit sacks so I assumed Payne was one of the 5?  If so, I was saying I'd bet on Ionnaidis over Payne on that front.  Ditto Allen.   Ionnaidis isn't built like a DE.   He's over 300 pounds.    But I agree with the point (and said the same) that Ionnaidis is the better pass rusher and Payne the better run stuffer.  It's part of my argument of why I think Jonathan Allen is the best tackle here.  He's the most well rounded.

 

I haven't studied our tackles from the 2020 season that closely yet.  I did the previous year, and posted a ton of clips at the time of them and I don't agree with the point that when Payne plays 1 gap versus 2, he can go out there and be a two sack a game guy.    I think he's a decent pass rusher.  Nothing special.  They played him at least in one season 1 gap enough (usually 3 technique on the left side) to see what he's got on that front.   

 

His PFF pass rush grades for his three seasons were 60, 57, 54.8.    PFF aren't perfect but they typically don't miss on special pass rushers.  Payne's peak sack year with Alabama was 1.5 sacks. Here its been 2 sacks, 3 sacks and 5 sack seasons.  Granted that sacks aren't the be all and end all especially at that spot. It's about  being disruptive.  Vea for example didn't get a lot of sacks but still scored a 90 pass rush grade from PFF.   I think Payne is a really good run stuffer.    He's versatile and can be disruptive playing 1 gap.  But I think we are more betting on his potential on that front than anything else.  He is definitely a talented dude.  

 

To use baseball type figures IMO, Payne is a really good run stuffer. 333 kind of hitter.  As a pass rusher, I think he's better than how PFF grades him, better than his stats, and deserves more hype than the very little he gets nationally.  I'd put him at like 280 or so.   I do get the rally around Payne narrative that some have in part because he doesn't get the hype that some tackles around the league do even as a run stopper.  I do agree he's underrated.  I just haven't been sold on him being a special pass rusher if you let him loose.  I've seen enough of him let loose to be dubious of that.  But I wouldn't be shocked if one day Payne just explodes -- he has that kind of talent -- it equally wouldn't shock me if he didn't.  But regardless, I've wanted a nose for a long time who can stop the run and Payne is one of the best on that front and that's plenty enough for me. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You mentioned 5 lineman with double digit sacks so I assumed Payne was one of the 5?  If so, I was saying I'd bet on Ionnaidis over Payne on that front.  Ditto Allen.   Ionnaidis isn't built like a DE.   He's over 300 pounds.    But I agree with the point (and said the same) that Ionnaidis is the better pass rusher and Payne the better run stuffer.  It's part of my argument of why I think Jonathan Allen is the best tackle here.  He's the most well rounded.

 

I haven't studied our tackles from the 2020 season that closely yet.  I did the previous year, and posted a ton of clips at the time of them and I don't agree with the point that when Payne plays 1 gap versus 2, he can go out there and be a two sack a game guy.    I think he's a decent pass rusher.  Nothing special.  They played him at least in one season 1 gap enough (usually 3 technique on the left side) to see what he's got on that front.   

 

His PFF pass rush grades for his three seasons were 60, 57, 54.8.    PFF aren't perfect but they typically don't miss on special pass rushers.  It's not about getting sacks but being disruptive.  Vea for example didn't get a lot of sacks but still score a 90 pass rush grade from PFF.   Payne's peak sack year with Alabama was 1.5 sacks. Here its been 2 sacks, 3 sacks and 5 sack seasons.   I think Payne is a really good run stuffers.    He's versatile and be disruptive playing 1 gap.  But I think we are more betting on his potential on that front than anything else.  He is definitely a talented dude.  

 

To use baseball type figures IMO, Payne is a really good run stuffer. 333 kind of hitter.  As a pass rusher, I think he's better than how PFF grades him, better than his stats, and deserves more hype than the very little he gets nationally.  So I get the rally around Payne narrative that some have.  I just haven't been sold on him being a special pass rusher if you let him loose.  I've seen enough of him let loose to be dubious of that.  but I wouldn't be shocked if one day Payne just explodes -- he has that kind of talent -- it equally wouldn't shokc me if he didn't.  But regardless, I've wanted a nose for a long time who can stop the run and Payne is one of the best on that front and that's plenty enough for me. 

I'd agree with all of that. I think the best part for us, is the versatility of the 3. I was including Payne in the 5. All of them are going to eat this year. Our defense should be much better, which is impressive. The sack number should soar for everyone, with an offense that's going to score a lot. 

 

This is 6 years old, so may have changed, but 21 teams have had a trio of 10+ sack guys. There's never been a team with 4 DD sack guys on it. Young and Sweat should be locks. Maybe Ioannidis and Collins could be also.

 

https://sportsmenublog.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/a-history-of-a-trio-of-pass-rushers-part-ii-the-repeaters/

Edited July 7, 2021 by Koolblue13

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[Vanguard]

I guess I might be wrong.  But I’ve always felt Ioannidis was our best interior lineman, followed by Payne, and then Allen last.  I just feel like Matt Ioannidis and Payne flash a lot more than Allen.  Allen is the best locker room guy of the three, but I feel like we have enough good character, and locker room payers now.  That’s just me though.

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I guess I might be wrong.  But I’ve always felt Ioannidis was our best interior lineman, followed by Payne, and then Allen last.  I just feel like Matt Ioannidis and Payne flash a lot more than Allen.  Allen is the best locker room guy of the three, but I feel like we have enough good character, and locker room payers now.  That’s just me though.

Ion is the best pass rusher of the three. Allen is the most consistent and technically sound. Payne is the most explosive and seems like is always the guy that comes up with the big 3rd/4th and 1 stops. Honestly all three compliment each other really well.

 

If you combine them you'd have Aaron Donald lolol.

[XxSpearheadxX]

There have only been a handful of times I can think of where a defense had two DE that could rush the passer in such a physically dominant way. Both of their ceilings are so much higher tham their current skill also. Our DTs are nothing to sneeze at also. If things work out and we get good coverage from our LBers on thr short stuff (which is where Jamin Davis comes in) our pash rush could be unstoppable. 

 

There were SO many times last year than a half second more and it would have been a sack, so so so many but opposing QBs who weren't terrible just abused us on quick hitters and draw plays. That will get better, I trust they have all worked and grown so much this past offseason. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[Burgundy Yoda]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Warhead36 said:

What idiot had Aaron Donald at 4? LMAO

 

I think Allen could be on that list but its debatable between him and guys like Jarrett and Tuitt.

Allen's 2 sack season is killing him. He had 6 sacks and 8 sacks the year before, one more season above 5 sacks would have done it. He had so many "almost sacks", if he had gotten a few of them he'd be on the list. He has been consistently one of the league leading DTs in tackles, and is up there in pressures. 

 

The entire DL being more athletic than him limits his numbers I think, you put him on another team and he's probably that 6-8 sack a year guy still. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Dark Acre]

Charles Mann and Dexter Manley.  Us old-timers know what it feels like to have 2 unstoppable DE's.

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Charles Mann and Dexter Manley.  Us old-timers know what it feels like to have 2 unstoppable DE's.

I mean yeah that dline was amazing (albeit I was very young) , but I think Sweats ceiling is higher than Charles Mann

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:07 PM, Warhead36 said:

What idiot had Aaron Donald at 4? LMAO

 

I think Allen could be on that list but its debatable between him and guys like Jarrett and Tuitt.

 

I don't agree with it, but I think that person was super over-weighting age when considering it.  Trying to avoid any decline in their 2021 projections.  A decline for Aaron Donald could still arguably be #1.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I remember cooley talking about Chase and just saying he's the kind of guy who you go to your coach on the sideline and say "Coach we can't block him like that." It has to be a morally crushing thing. He had moments of that last year but really he is on the verge of really forcing offenses to completely alter game plans even in ways that they know are going to make them less effective, but they have no choice. 

 

Then if swest keeps getting better he is just a tier below chase, but a freak in his own right and very strong against the run. 

 

All 4 of our DTs aren't playing to their full potential either. They are getting there and are already top level DTs.  Don't mind me I'm just homering off all over the place here. 

[LD0506]

The best thing that could happen for the D line is the secondary being better, like maybe adding a fast LB a or maybe a top corner etc., etc. (Oh yeah! we did) I think we're going to see a much more powerful attack up front this year because there won't be these squishy soft holes in the flat for QBs to dump into at the last second.