Huffpo: Explosive UFO Report In NYT Mentions 'Off-World Vehicles Not Made On This Earth'

[Jabbyrwock]

48 minutes ago, kfrankie said:

Wow lot of nut jobs in this thread eh?? 😂

 

At least one.

[China]

Is Maryland a UFO hotspot? Locals have reported nearly 2,000 bizarre sightings in the sky since 1995

 

Maryland could be a UFO hotspot, as nearly 2,000 sightings of bizarre objects in the sky have been reported since the mid-1990s.

 

Residents of the eighth-smallest state have reported a 'flat bottom black triangle' with green lights, 'a classic flying saucer,' and an oval-shaped craft that 'stayed stationary for about a minute and a half.'

 

Reports of the phenomenon have been collected in a database that shows that the first recorded sighting in Maryland dates back to May 15, 1946 — but wasn't reported until June 2017.

 

More modern sightings, like the glowing 'orbs' witnessed above Ocean City this past April, now get reported to the database within a matter of days.

 

'My daughter and I looked up and saw 'four orbs' moving in a circular motion, then come back to the middle, then spread back out,' the witness from Ocean City, who works in the defense sector, wrote to the UFO database. 

 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[justice98]

I highly recommend David Grusch's interview on Joe Rogan's podcast that just dropped last night.  

 

Key moments:

 

- Discussed 300 foot triangle following a TS-SCI cleared DOD professional all the way to a secured facility at dawn. The triangle was dark, had a purplish glow to it (plasma he said) and distinct lights. The triangle was around 1000 feet above the person’s car and it caused some kind of radiation damage to the persons paint. The affected person did not disclose this event for 5 years.

 

- Discussed how he got access to a lot of the information - via a highly ranked official with impeccable credentials that told him he needed to know that there are already efforts to reverse engineer not of this earth materials. And because David was part of the UAP task force, it was imperative that he knew.

 

- When he finally got in touch with the gatekeepers, the gatekeepers pretty much told them to **** off. And closed their doors. This resulted in David conducting more research, documenting anecdotes, and testimonials and submitting them to the IG.

 

- David provided around 12 hours of testimony to the congressional staffers, and the lawyers to both the house and the Senate. He went full, open kimono as he says, within the time that was given to him.

 

- He mentioned the 1933 case where the pope and the Vatican were involved, but says that, or hence, that, earlier cases that he simply is not allowed to discuss at this point in time. There were no bodies recovered from the crash. The vehicle was lenticular, but broke apart after impact, and there was only that traditional bell shaped object left. The Italian contacted the Germans to determine if this was some kind of German aviation experiment. The Germans came down to Italy, took a look at the Kraft and told them that it was definitely not theirs. Craft size = 20x10 feet.

Around 1944 or 1945, the United States Government was aware of this crash, and proceeded to recover the craft after the end of the war.

 

- A lot of the findings across this 90 year program have led to innovations specific to the national security space. Not necessarily a replication of the technology, but more of an inspiration resulting in human innovation.

 

- Double digit craft retrievals. David knows of the specific number, but is not allowed to disclose it. The reason why is because our adversaries are watching I’m listening to everything that we do or say, hence the discretion.

 

- He says that we have a constitutional oversight issue because these programs have not been reporting to Congress as they should have in appropriate ways.

David met with Harry Reed two years before the senator passed away. By then Harry Reid was a civilian and not an elected official. He met with Harry to determine how much Harry knew. Curious about the $21 million allocation. Reid told him he knew we had UFO material, tried to get access and was denied by DOD. This confirmed David’s beliefs.

 

- Harry Reid told him, just like he told the New Yorker during an interview years ago, that Lockheed Martin is the Government Contractor that had UAP material. Lockheed Martin wanted to digest itself from such material onto a specific military base. CIA also involved. 1950s recovery material. The $21 million that were allocated were to be given to Bigelow Aerospace so they could build a secure facility in Las Vegas to house and analyze these materials. David has seen all associated docs and PowerPoints detailing this. The CIA killed the project on the money was used for other things.

 

- He says that Lockheed Martin is not the issue here. Lockie Martin complained about how compartmentalized this reverse engineering program was and how they were not able to bring in the necessary engineering talent to do their work.

 

- He then talks about people that he’s close friends with over his 14 year career that work in the reverse engineering program and how they are extremely frustrated because all of the work is highly compartmentalized and therefore one engineer cannot discuss his work with an engineer, that’s in the cubicle next to him.

 

- David shares that as he was reviewing all AATIP documents he found adversarial counterintelligence about the United States Government that talked about America’s reverse engineering program. David then went to the agency that had acquired this adversarial intelligence, and requested more on behalf of Congress. Initially, that agency said sure, but after a two month Silence they came back with a very aggressive attitude and pretty much told him to go **** himself to never come back to them asking about this stuff.

 

- The United States is aware of other countries, recovery and reverse engineering efforts. But David did not disclose who those nations are. He did say that it’s not hard to guess who it is.

 

- David then begins talking about Chuck Schumer‘s amendment that is supposed to establish a disclosure process between 2024 and 2030. The Senate has approved it. The house is fighting it as they say that AARO already does some of that work. Which is “****ing ridiculous”. The chair of the house until committee. Mike Turner is the one blocking it and David mentions Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Read between the lines. Mike Rogers also blocking it.

 

- He recognizes the support that he has received from Tim Burchett, which is the complete opposite of what he has received from Mike and Mike. And he makes that pretty clear. He also mentions how Mike Turner has been considered the most corrupt elected official, and Congress for a while. And he also mentions his top donors which we all already know who they are.

 

- He says that we are not alone and with 100% certainty, but that the old guard is trying to keep the truth away from the American people. But he says that the toothpaste is already out of the tube and it’s simply too late in his opinion for them to restrict the truth.

 

- Joe asks him what these nonhuman entities are. David begins his response by saying that they are extra terrestrial per all of his sources. But Schumer amendment used NHI term to catch everything.

 

- On two occasions Individuals of unknown origin explained to Grusch and his wife they could “touch” them at any time (clearly alluding to violence)

 

- Grusch stated other publicly well known officials got similar threats at the same time he did

 

- Atomic energy act of 1954 is the origin to all NHI information being classified

Edited November 22, 2023 by justice98

[mistertim]

If they are biological extraterrestrials (I'm just playing with this by assuming the above is true) then there are probably a handful of possibilities:

 

1) They have FTL travel

2) They're from a star system very close to us, and have been checking us out for a while (but would still need to have VERY fast ships as even the closest exoplanet to us, Proxima Centauri b, is over 4 light years away).

3) They're not from a star system very close to us, but are part of a civilization that has no real roots anymore and expanded across the galaxy over thousands or millions of years.

 

Without FTL travel the options are super limited, especially with biological species, unless they've engineered their lifespans to be millennia long.

[Corcaigh]

As usual, extraordinary claims by Grusch or anyone else require extraordinary evidence. And the claims (hearsay involving someone’s third cousin) are lacking specifics you could evaluate. 

 

If they actually have material a lab could diagnose the material in less than an hour. It doesn’t require a $21M lab to analyze the component elements in a material.

 

And with all the radar and astronomy (that can detect asteroids less that 5 feet in diameter) etc we still have no solid data.

[justice98]

22 minutes ago, Corcaigh said:

As usual, extraordinary claims by Grusch or anyone else require extraordinary evidence. And the claims (hearsay involving someone’s third cousin) are lacking specifics you could evaluate. 

 

If they actually have material a lab could diagnose the material in less than an hour. It doesn’t require a $21M lab to analyze the component elements in a material.

 

And with all the radar and astronomy (that can detect asteroids less that 5 feet in diameter) etc we still have no solid data.

 

They lack specifics to yahoos like us.  He has provided all the specifics: names, dates, places, corroborating witnesses, etc to the IG and Congress.  It's just all classified and we're not allowed to see it.  These weren't random people he was talking to.  These were 3 star generals and heads of agencies and people directly involved in some cases as part of an official inquiry.  

 

He's not providing the specifics publicly you say he lacks because he's prohibited from doing so, not because he chooses not to or doesnt have them.  And if there are specifics he doesn't have or if he's giving his opinion, he says that. 

 

These guys like Reid and Schumer werent chasing this because there's nothing there.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by justice98

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

They lack specifics to yahoos like us.  He has provided all the specifics, names, dates, places, corroborating witnesses, etc to the IG and Congress.  It's just all classified and we're not allowed to see it.  He's not providing the specifics publicly you say he lacks because he's prohibited from doing so, not because he chooses not to or doesnt have them.  And if there are specifics he doesn't have or if he's giving his opinion, he says that. 

 

We've heard this exact same sort of song and dance before, though. "I totally have evidence, I just can't show it to you"

 

I totally have a girlfriend who is a famous model and actress. But I can't tell you who it is and you can't meet her because of her public profile. But a couple of people I know have met her and totally say she's real, but you can't talk to them either, for the same reasons.

[Corcaigh]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

 

I totally have a girlfriend who is a famous model and actress. But I can't tell you who it is and you can't meet her because of her public profile. But a couple of people I know have met her and totally say she's real, but you can't talk to them either, for the same reasons.

You’re a total liar. She’s my girlfriend.

 

And LOL at the Pope, Reid and Schumer being name dropped as though they would add credibility.

 

Better to have the National Inquirer on the case - the best investigative reporting on the planet

[RansomthePasserby]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

We've heard this exact same sort of song and dance before, though. "I totally have evidence, I just can't show it to you"

 

I totally have a girlfriend who is a famous model and actress. But I can't tell you who it is and you can't meet her because of her public profile. But a couple of people I know have met her and totally say she's real, but you can't talk to them either, for the same reasons.

But did you testify to congress under oath that you have a famous model actress girlfriend?

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, RansomthePasserby said:

But did you testify to congress under oath that you have a famous model actress girlfriend?

 

Yes, totally. But it was made to some Congressional staffers and lawyers who I won't identify and there are no public records available so you can't see it or hear it. But it happened, bro. Scout's honor.

[justice98]

43 minutes ago, mistertim said:

If they are biological extraterrestrials (I'm just playing with this by assuming the above is true) then there are probably a handful of possibilities:

 

1) They have FTL travel

2) They're from a star system very close to us, and have been checking us out for a while (but would still need to have VERY fast ships as even the closest exoplanet to us, Proxima Centauri b, is over 4 light years away).

3) They're not from a star system very close to us, but are part of a civilization that has no real roots anymore and expanded across the galaxy over thousands or millions of years.

 

Without FTL travel the options are super limited, especially with biological species, unless they've engineered their lifespans to be millennia long.

 

The options aren't limited, they're infinite really. They're limited by our primitive understanding of science.  In the scheme of things, we dont know anything about anything. There's a little we know, a lot we THINK we know, and a ton we dont know.  If they using wormholes or interdimensional travel or some other theoretical concept, speed is irrelevant.  

[RansomthePasserby]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Yes, totally. But it was made to some Congressional staffers and lawyers who I won't identify and there are no public records available so you can't see it or hear it. But it happened, bro. Scout's honor.

Gotcha, the thing is Grusch’s testimony to congress is recorded for anyone to watch. If he’s lying he goes to prison, I think that adds a little more weight to his claims than claims by others in the past. 

[mistertim]

Just now, RansomthePasserby said:

Gotcha, the thing is Grusch’s testimony to congress is recorded for anyone to watch. If he’s lying he goes to prison, I think that adds a little more weight to his claims than claims by others in the past. 

 

But what specific and falsifiable facts has he provided? If he hasn't provided something that can easily be shown to be false, then he won't go to prison.

[justice98]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

We've heard this exact same sort of song and dance before, though. "I totally have evidence, I just can't show it to you"

 

I totally have a girlfriend who is a famous model and actress. But I can't tell you who it is and you can't meet her because of her public profile. But a couple of people I know have met her and totally say she's real, but you can't talk to them either, for the same reasons.

 

This is an absurd analogy.

 

You're missing the point.  Because you personally dont have it doesn't invalidate it.  If your position is, unless you can personally see it, it doesn't exist, I don't know what to tell you. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by justice98

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

This is an absurd comparison.

 

You're missing the point.  Because you personally dont have it doesn't invalidate it.  If your position is, unless you can personally see it, it doesn't exist, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

Who has it? There's zero hard evidence. It's all second and third hand "oh, I talked to a guy who's seen it"

 

It might exist. But unless someone can provide more than third hand anecdotal evidence I'm certainly not going to assume that it's real.

Edited November 22, 2023 by mistertim

[RansomthePasserby]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

But what specific and falsifiable facts has he provided? If he hasn't provided something that can easily be shown to be false, then he won't go to prison.

Totally agree, they should give him the clearance to show what he has to those who can see them. It would be good for others to verify what he has even if the facts aren’t displayed publicly. 

[justice98]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Who has it? There's zero hard evidence. It's all second and third hand "oh, I talked to a guy who's seen it"

 

It might exist. But unless someone can provide more than third hand anecdotal evidence I'm certainly not going to assume that it's real.

 

Ths ICIG, for one, that reviewd his whistleblower complaint and deemed the information to be credible.  Grusch testified under oath. He went through the official whistleblower process and checks like everyone else. Rubio has said they had first hand witnesses come in and talk to them, ie, not somebody's third cousin.  Defense contractors, like Lockheed, Battelle, Bigelow Aerospace, etc al, have some material in question.

 

And to that last point, Grusch ( and others) have explained that contractors are upset because they cant give the material to people.  This is a topic that's been out there about how scientific discovery is being hindered by the over classification.  You cant being in who you need to research.  In a perfect world, everything would be open and in the public domain and we'd all benefit.  But if you're a private conttrctor in possession of otherworldly material, you cant read in whoever you feel like.  At least if you're getting government money.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Ths ICIG, for one, that reviewd his whistleblower complaint and deemed the information to be credible.  Grusch testified under oath. He went through the official whistleblower process and checks like everyone else. Rubio has said they had first hand witnesses come in and talk to them, ie, not somebody's third cousin.  Defense contractors, like Lockheed, Battelle, Bigelow Aerospace, etc al, have some material in question.

 

And to that last point, Grusch ( and others) have explained that contractors are upset because they cant give the material to people.  This is a topic that's been out there about how scientific discovery is being hindered by the over classification.  You cant being in who you need to research.  In a perfect world, everything would be open and in the public domain and we'd all benefit.  But if you're a private conttrctor in possession of otherworldly material, you cant read in whoever you feel like.  At least if you're getting government money.

 

Again, what specific facts did he give them other than second and third hand anecdotal evidence? Rubio said he had first hand witnesses come in. Who? What happened? Why haven't those people testified? If Lockheed and others have those materials then they should be brought in to testify and subpoenaed.

 

Everything Grusch has said, thus far, has been unfalsifiable. That's why it's like UFO claims in the past. 

 

That doesn't automatically mean it's false, but as @Corcaighsaid, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're going to claim there's some huge conspiracy involving extraterrestrial aliens, the US government, and the Vatican (lol) then you better come with more than "I know a guy who knows a guy"

 

Until we get actual hard evidence, I'm not going to simply assume that this time it's real.

[mistertim]

57 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

The options aren't limited, they're infinite really. They're limited by our primitive understanding of science.  In the scheme of things, we dont know anything about anything. There's a little we know, a lot we THINK we know, and a ton we dont know.  If they using wormholes or interdimensional travel or some other theoretical concept, speed is irrelevant.  

 

As far as this goes, I put FTL as option 1. That would include wormholes. Unless the aliens aren't from this universe then they're going to have to contend with relativity, which is an incredibly well proven scientific theory and is baked into the fabric of spacetime.

 

Either they've found a way past relativity or they haven't. If they have, then all bets are off. If they haven't, then that puts the kibosh in the idea of aliens gallivanting around the universe and making pit stops at random places whenever they see fit.

Edited November 22, 2023 by mistertim

[PeterMP]

Some of it just seems odd.  He can say that we have double digit crafts, but he can't say how many?  How does that really make any sense?

[Fergasun]

Or.  This guy can make money by embellishing what is out there and people who know that its all BS can't come out and stop him.  Because they don't have the right clearance levels.

 

If what he is saying is true, to the level he claims, than leak it and dare them to put you in jail or kill you. "Toothpaste is out of the tube...".  

 

Did he list what specific advances were made as a result of this material?  

[justice98]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Again, what specific facts did he give them other than second and third hand anecdotal evidence? Rubio said he had first hand witnesses come in. Who? What happened? Why haven't those people testified? If Lockheed and others have those materials then they should be brought in to testify and subpoenaed.

 

Everything Grusch has said, thus far, has been unfalsifiable. That's why it's like UFO claims in the past. 

 

That doesn't automatically mean it's false, but as @Corcaighsaid, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're going to claim there's some huge conspiracy involving extraterrestrial aliens, the US government, and the Vatican (lol) then you better come with more than "I know a guy who knows a guy"

 

Until we get actual hard evidence, I'm not going to simply assume that this time it's real.

 

Obviously, these are specific questions none of us can answer. But it's no different than any other thing that goes through these channels.  Not like it's posted on the website.  

 

As far as Rubio, we can only go on what he's chosen to say: 

 

 

I'd say the reason these people havent testified is more complex than you're making it.  First, you cant just subpoena people cuz you feel like it.  The chair of the committee has to establish a select committee that has that power.  And Rep. Burchett and others have indicated the chair of their committee doesn't really want to authorize that.  There's basically competing factions within the House on this.  

 

And then, as Rubio mentioned, these people got jobs and families and other things to worry about.  Grusch has talked about reprisals for going public, which was in his whistleblower complaint. He basically gave up his career for this. 

 

 

 

[LD0506]

Some of y'all got this as a tattoo dintya?

 

 

[mistertim]

Yeah I really don't think my position of "I'll believe in a massive conspiracy involving extraterrestrials, UFOs, the US government, and the Vatican when I see some actual evidence for it" is all that controversial.

[RansomthePasserby]

38 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I really don't think my position of "I'll believe in a massive conspiracy involving extraterrestrials, UFOs, the US government, and the Vatican when I see some actual evidence for it" is all that controversial.

Your position is not controversial, it makes sense with the information we currently have. I think there’s a gradient to the likelihood that some of the claims being made are true, and the extremes of completely dismissing them or 100% believing in them are both wrong. 

 

Five years ago I would have said there is almost no chance that UFOs/UAPs are some other life form visiting us from some other planet/dimension/etc. Just based on what we’ve learned over the past few years I think there is greater weight/likelihood of it being true, and I would put the likelihood at a 5%-10% chance. Still unlikely, but the increase from <1% to 5%-10% over a couple years feels huge.