A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[NoVaSkins21]

I really hope that Kyle Smith still has a place in this organization either as the GM or under whoever the GM is in some capacity.  This team needs continuity in the worst way.

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[Riggo#44]

Here is the thing we have to remember: Kyle knows EXACTLY what's going on. Rivera is upfront and honest. Gone are the days where Kendall Fuller gets traded and no one tells him.

[XxSpearheadxX]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Gone are the days where Kendall Fuller gets traded and no one tells him.

Those were dark times.

[HigSkin]

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by HigSkin

[HigSkin]

15 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Here is the thing we have to remember: Kyle knows EXACTLY what's going on. Rivera is upfront and honest. Gone are the days where Kendall Fuller gets traded and no one tells him.

 

Ref  Kyle Smith

 

 

[ananoman]

3 hours ago, -JB- said:

Kyle Smith has been with Washington for years correct?  So we can’t give him all the credit for the past two successful drafts can we?

Kyle Smith has been with the organization for a decade.  BUT, he wasn't promoted to director of college scouting, where he would have a major influence on the draft selection, until June 2017 (according to Wikipedia).  So yeah, he deserves much of the credit for the past several successful drafts.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Ref  Kyle Smith

 

My hopes are that Kyle Smith finishes his business career with the WFT.  A true gem this team is fortunate to have and if they let him go we will see another McVay take place with a potential GM vs. a HC.  

[TSO]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

If it's Schoen or Cowden then it's basically a guarantee that at some point Kyle will leave. If it's Hurney, then it's very possible they're grooming Kyle to take over in a few years. 

Hmmm... that’s an interesting way of looking at it.
 

I don’t know if we have anything to go off of at this point other than our gut feelings and what occurs around the league with these type of things. 
 

My hope is that we hire Cowden and/or Schoen (I like Rick Smith and I like the Vikings no. 2 guy Paton, too, though I think the Broncos have pretty much nabbed the latter already), and somehow manage to keep Kyle in his current role. Kyle’s current title is pretty much what no. 2 personnel guys have, anyway, so he wouldn’t be getting demoted or anything. And if reports are true that he’s not getting any offers that would make him a legit GM, then I could totally see him staying regardless. 
 

But, yeah, I can see something like what you posit happening. That a hire like Hurney is only to groom Kyle into that role because Hurney would be one of the few to accept that reality. I don’t think Cowden or Schoen would come here to basically be a placeholder for a few years. 
 

Still, I’d rather not have to hope that happens. Let’s just hire a friggin qualified GM for the first time during Snyder’s tenure. It’s crazy that it’s NEVER happened. Just once let’s get a guy who has been a significant part of a successful scouting/resource management operation for a significant amount of time and hasn’t been out of the league for years after having failed at their previous stint.
 

Just once! 

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Hmmm... that’s an interesting way of looking at it.
 

I don’t know if we have anything to go off of at this point other than our gut feelings and what occurs around the league with these type of things. 
 

My hope is that we hire Cowden and/or Schoen (I like Rick Smith and I like the Vikings no. 2 guy Paton, too, though I think the Broncos have pretty much nabbed the latter already), and somehow manage to keep Kyle in his current role. Kyle’s current title is pretty much what no. 2 personnel guys have, anyway, so he wouldn’t be getting demoted or anything. And if reports are true that he’s not getting any offers that would make him a legit GM, then I could totally see him staying regardless. 
 

But, yeah, I can see something like what you posit happening. That a hire like Hurney is only to groom Kyle into that role because Hurney would be one of the few to accept that reality. I don’t think Cowden or Schoen would come here to basically be a placeholder for a few years. 
 

Still, I’d rather not have to hope that happens. Let’s just hire a friggin qualified GM for the first time during Snyder’s tenure. It’s crazy that it’s NEVER happened. Just once let’s get a guy who has been a significant part of a successful scouting/resource management operation for a significant amount of time and hasn’t been out of the league for years after having failed at their previous stint.
 

Just once! 

 

Haha yeah I don't think Kyle would leave immediately - in fact he might even get promoted to Assistant GM. Or he might leave immediately for an AGM role elsewhere. But if you hire a Schoen or Cowden it's because that's your guy for the long term, meaning eventually Kyle will leave for the GM role somewhere else. Unless you end up firing Scoen or Cowden, which means things haven't gone well so that's a bad case scenario.

 

Anyway, I'm mostly zen about the whole thing bc this is one of those areas where we as fans have the least visibility. That's not to say it isn't important or that we won't screw it up, but I feel like fans don't have the data to develop real opinions about who's good or not. So I'm mostly just along for the ride and hoping for the best.  

[TSO]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

Anyway, I'm mostly zen about the whole thing bc this is one of those areas where we as fans have the least visibility. That's not to say it isn't important or that we won't screw it up, but I feel like fans don't have the data to develop real opinions about who's good or not. So I'm mostly just along for the ride and hoping for the best.  

I love that you said this. At least you understand how limited we are about all this stuff and you’re not acting like it’s meaningless because of that. I blame the media for that mostly, but I digress.

 

 If one wants to dig deep and research it, there is enough out there to understand it at a high enough level. Not necessarily in terms of who is a good hire or not, but just to get an understanding of sound organizational principles and hiring processes. It’s hard though. You can find more about who was the assistant offensive line coach in 2003 with a quick google search before you can find anything about the scouting department and its executives. I’ve been pulling my hair out for years trying to detail it as much as I can on here next to no avail, lol. 
 

But to keep it simple, if you want to know how NOT to go about these hires, just look at how Snyder has went about it his entire tenure. For God’s sake, his top personnel executives, if it’s not the coach himself which almost never works, have both been guys that no one wanted, were out of the league at the time he hired them, and had failed at their previous stint (Vinny and Bruce). 
 

And those guys would last a friggin decade. Insanity. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[CapsSkins]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

I love that you said this. At least you understand how limited we are about all this stuff and you’re not acting like it’s meaningless because of that. I blame the media for that mostly, but I digress.

 

 If one wants to dig deep and research it, there is enough out there to understand it at a high enough level. Not necessarily in terms of who is a good hire or not, but just to get an understanding of sound organizational principles and hiring processes. It’s hard though. You can find more about who was the assistant offensive line coach in 2003 with a quick google search before you can find anything about the scouting department and its executives. I’ve been pulling my hair out for years trying to detail it as much as I can on here next to no avail, lol. 
 

But to keep it simple, if you want to know how NOT to go about these hires, just look at how Snyder has went about it his entire tenure. For God’s sake, his top personnel executives, if it’s not the coach himself which almost never works, have both been guys that no one wanted, were out of the league at the time he hired them, and had failed at their previous stint (Vinny and Bruce). 
 

And those guys would last a friggin decade. Insanity. 🤦🏽‍♂️

 

Oh yeah, the processes here have been ass-backwards. From that standpoint, it seems we're bound for an upgrade - Rivera leading an interview process w/ several candidates and ultimately hiring one he feels good about. That in of itself will be an improvement.

 

But I just know people here will take the media narrative and run with it even though we have no real clue what constitutes a good hire. My big lesson for this was the Caps after Leonsis finally fired George McPhee, who was a really bad GM. Despite some highly-touted names in the national media, Leonsis ultimately promoted the Assistant GM Brian MacLellan who had been serving as the interim GM. At first, many fans and I were super frustrated. "More of the same" we figured. But in reality, MacLellan was the complete opposite of McPhee and aggressively pursued roster improvements that directly led to our Stanley Cup Championship team in 2018. In retrospect, we realized Mac had probably learned from McPhee's failures and knew what to fix. The lesson is that you never know who's going to be the right guy. You could hire someone from a winning program who's bad, or someone from a bad program who's great. Maybe letting Kyle Smith walk is the worst decision in the world. But maybe Martin Mayhew would have the same scouting philosophy. We just don't know.   

 

I will give Ron a fairly long leash, though, and generally give him the benefit of the doubt. Same w/ the QB process. If it's his guy, I'll go along for the ride and hope for the best.

Edited January 13, 2021 by CapsSkins

[Est.1974]

It’s very encouraging that Rivera is looking to bolster the front office structure. Must say I’m fairly open minded to what we do in this area, I take it as a initial major positive that we are quickly doing something though.  

[TSO]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

The lesson is that you never know who's going to be the right guy. You could hire someone from a winning program who's bad, or someone from a bad program who's great. Maybe letting Kyle Smith walk is the worst decision in the world. But maybe Martin Mayhew would have the same scouting philosophy. We just don't know.   

I agree with this in essence, but I will say that there are ways to go about this that succeed more than others. So while we don’t know in the end, the process does matter. And that’s not just about good programs versus bad programs but a lot of other factors. One of those factors, for instance, is certainly based on the players they were in charge of acquiring or had a significant role in acquiring; that isn’t useless information (though even that needs to be contextualized to a degree and isn’t as simple as saying x amount of players succeeded and y amount of players failed). So one can understand the hesitation with someone like Mayhew, for instance. But, yeah, they shouldn’t just be automatically written off. 

 

Like you said, the fact that Ron is actually running these interviews (or at least we hope that’s the case, we’ve seen this before only to find out Snyder was much more involved than we initially were told) and, as I’ve recently mentioned, the fact that he is looking to upgrade the Front Office and isn’t just satisfied with the status quo are HUGE positives that are different than what has occurred at any other time during Snyder’s tenure. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

My best guess based on what others have said about Rivera is the dude that interviews the best gets the job and its between Mayhew and Cowden. Rivera seems like the type of guy who is stricken by who comes off the best prepared.  Hurney I keep hearing is likely an assistant if he comes versus the main guy.  I think Kyle stays for now unless he gets an offer.  I wouldn't be shocked if SF pursues him ironically if we hire Mayhew.  The Shannys love Kyle. 

 

I hope Dan stays out of it.  He's obviously Mr. Nostalgia so alumni would have the edge.  I have mixed feelings about when Dan consults with Joe Gibbs.  Gibbs also is Mr. Nostalgia.  I recall Gibbs was a huge Vinny guy.  And it wouldn't surprise me if he liked Bruce.   And in turn he was a part of why both lasted so long if its true that Dan still consults with Dan from time to time.  Gibbs is so good hearted that I suspect he's easily fooled by skilled brown nosers like those two. 

 

But I'll give Gibbs props for helping convince Rivera that WFT is a good bet and he could work with Dan and vice versa. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My best guess based on what others have said about Rivera is the dude that interviews the best gets the job and its between Mayhew and Cowden. Rivera seems like the type of guy who is stricken by who comes off the best prepared.  Hurney I keep hearing is likely an assistant if he comes versus the main guy.  I think Kyle stays for now unless he gets an offer.  I wouldn't be shocked if SF oursues him ironically if we hire Mayhew.

 

I hope Dan stays out of it.  He's obviously Mr. Nostalgia so alumni would have the edge.  I have mixed feelings about when Dan consults with Joe Gibbs.  Gibbs also is Mr. Nonstalgia.  But I'll give Gibbs props for helping convince Rivera that WFT is a good bet and he could work with Dan and vice versa. 

I don't like the fact of Smith leaving and am not a Mayhew fan but if Cowden is the pick then I guess we all have to live with it.  It's RR's show. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to JP Finlay, he said he thinks the GM search will go fast.

 

He's not sure how it will go down with Kyle but he knows that internally they aren't giving full credit to Kyle for the last FA crop but it was a collabrative effort.  Supposedly it was his TE coach who clamored for Logan Thomas and Scott Turner for McKissic for example. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to JP Finlay, he said he thinks the GM search will go fast.

 

He's not sure how it will go down with Kyle but he knows that internally they aren't giving full credit to Kyle for the last FA crop but it was a collabrative effort.  Supposedly it was his TE coach who clamored for Logan Thomas and Scott Turner for McKissic for example. 

Yes and those are the finer details as fans we don’t ever hear about at the time. Sounds like we’ll be hiring before the next day or two is out.

[Busch1724]

The thing that gets me about Mayhew is the Detroit tenure as GM. It wasn't great obviously but everyone there fails. So granted it's Detroit but as I looked up his tenure there, they did get to the playoffs twice. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

I’m ok with mayhew but I definitely want to interview Schoen.  He learned behind one of the best GMs. He knows what it means to go from the basement getting g kicked around to the alpha. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, hail2skins said:

No kidding. I agree that the Eagles have cap issues right now, but I've been on the board 20 years and remember the countless times people have said "(insert NFC East team) is going to be in a world of hurt and the Skins are gonna dominate!!"  We probably had this conversation in 2015 after the Skins beat the Eagles to win the division and Philly fired Chip Kelly. Two seasons later, they are hoisting the Lombardi............

Yeah, the chest puffing is kind of funny because this team hasn't ever sustained even modest success like they had this past year or in 2015 when they've won a down division. The closest they came was going 8-7-1 in 2016. 

 

Maybe this is the year it's all different, but if history tells us anything, the Redskins will drop back down or stick in the 6-8 win range while one or more division rivals will get to 10+ wins in 2021. 

[veteranskinsfan]

If we let Kyle go and he ends up with the 49ers I will be super upset.  Maybe they can just pay him more money to stay.  But ultimately I am sure his goal is to be a

General Manager just like his dad.  Very frustrating why we are taking him for granted.

[RWJ]

I have read some WFT beat reporters, forget who on twitters saying Hurney could be brought in as a Senior non GM and Cowden as GM.  Take it as a grain of salt for now.

[boston skins fan]

23 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I have read some WFT beat reporters, forget who on twitters saying Hurney could be brought in as a Senior non GM and Cowden as GM.  Take it as a grain of salt for now.

 

Been doing some research on Cowden.  Seems like he could be a good get.  credited as on of the architects of the Panthers team that went to the super bowl in 15 and as one of the major architects in the current Titans FO that has a solid team.  He looks to be kyle smith with more experience.

 

Would not be upset with him.  Hurney as a senior assistant to help out cowden.  Cowden as gm and Smith as AGM working and learning under Cowden would be a fantastic structure.

[Riggo#44]

15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Yeah, the chest puffing is kind of funny because this team hasn't ever sustained even modest success like they had this past year or in 2015 when they've won a down division. The closest they came was going 8-7-1 in 2016. 

 

Maybe this is the year it's all different, but if history tells us anything, the Redskins will drop back down or stick in the 6-8 win range while one or more division rivals will get to 10+ wins in 2021. 

 

A couple of things here. Jay Gruden never won more than 9 games--his defenses never ranked higher than 17th--and that was the year we started getting gashed by terrible running games (like 27th ATL running for 150-something) and Mansucky had no answer. He routinely hired (either he or Allen, both are gone so...) awful coordinators. He got to mediocre, but terrible defenses always held those teams back. After years of terrible coordinators, Rivera has one of the best staffs in the league on both sides of the ball. He made the most of the defense this year, FINALLY. We have holes so a 6-8 win team is not out of the question--but it will be a more legitimate 6-8 win team, if that makes sense. We started to see it against Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Tampa. We challenged and played with better teams, while beating the teams we should...except the ****ing Giants. 

53 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

If we let Kyle go and he ends up with the 49ers I will be super upset.  Maybe they can just pay him more money to stay.  But ultimately I am sure his goal is to be a

General Manager just like his dad.  Very frustrating why we are taking him for granted.

 

Are we? This isn't Allen's front office where people are told what's going on two weeks after the fact. I am almost sure he knows what's going on, what his role is, and what is path here is. No one has contacted Smith for a vacancy--so that should tell you something there.