Summer of 2020---The Civil Unrest Thread--Read OP Before Posting (in memory of George Floyd)

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

This whole interview is bonkers.

[visionary]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

9 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

How far are we going to take this little absurd mental exercise?  You see a person walking down the street with a baby.  And if the baby is being kidnapped, leaving them alone could do more harm than good, so you snatch the baby because the cop wouldn't know arriving at the scene that the person is the parent of the baby.  Is this type of "act first ask questions later" behavior really what you're gonna advocate for?

 

what does your scenario have to do with what happened? Sounds like a lot of word salad to me. 
 

is this one of those straw men?

[purbeast]

How relevant this is nearly 30 years later.

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

4 minutes ago, purbeast said:

How relevant this is nearly 30 years later.

and the episode where Will and Carlton got arrested for driving uncle Phil’s car around in a nice neighborhood. 
 

**also, this new mobile format for the forum is clean AF and silky smooth. Thanks to all that were involved in getting this rolled out. I love it.**

[PokerPacker]

34 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

and the episode where Will and Carlton got arrested for driving uncle Phil’s car around in a nice neighborhood.

Now my memory may be off, but I thought they were driving the car of a friend of his.  One of those "drive my car from here to there" deals.

Edited September 1, 2020 by PokerPacker

[TheDoyler23]

5 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

Now my memory may be off, but I thought they were driving the car of a friend of his.  One of those "drive my car from here to there" deals.

 

Yea, Uncle Phil's rich friend was taking them to some vacation spot via helicopter and Will and Carlton were driving his car to that spot. 

[bearrock]

3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

what does your scenario have to do with what happened? Sounds like a lot of word salad to me. 
 

is this one of those straw men?

 

Police does something that is clearly wrong given all the facts.  You excuse it by saying that police may not have had all the relevant facts.  Acting in such a drastic way without even attempting to gather all the facts is in and of itself a huge problem.

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Police does something that is clearly wrong given all the facts. 
 

 

clearly? How is it clearly wrong? Can you prove if they didn’t act the situation would turn out different?
 

Quote

 

You excuse it by saying that police may not have had all the relevant facts.  Acting in such a drastic way without even attempting to gather all the facts is in and of itself a huge problem.

 

 

So was the lady a doctor or no?

 

I don’t consider the actions in that video as drastic. I consider them completely reasonable given the situation.

 

The dude was shot in the chest. It was probably too late for him.  How about we focus our anger about this incident on the guy that shot him?

Edited September 1, 2020 by CousinsCowgirl84

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[LD0506]

 

[bearrock]

48 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

clearly? How is it clearly wrong? Can you prove if they didn’t act the situation would turn out different?


 

 

A person with a first aid kit was attempting to help a person with a gunshot wound.  Except for a some weird hypothetical where a random passerby is intervening to muck things up, how is it a better solution to leave the gunshot victim unhelped until the paramedics arrive?  

 

And I can't prove she could've saved the victim nor can you prove that she couldn't have.  That has no bearing on the morality of this incident.

Quote

So was the lady a doctor or no?

 

I don't know anything more than she was a volunteer street medic.  Apparently some are doctors and nurses who volunteer and get additional training in responding to street situations.  Some are also just lay people who receive training in first aid and CPR.

 

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I don’t consider the actions in that video as drastic. I consider them completely reasonable given the situation.

 

 

 

Other than the potential that the person is unqualified to administer first aid, what do you believes justifies the police stopping someone from administering first aid to a person in obvious need of one?

 

Quote

The dude was shot in the chest. It was probably too late for him.  How about we focus our anger about this incident on the guy that shot him?

 

First, no one knows whether first aid would've helped because the police prevented one from being given.  Second, if the first aid would've been futile, what exactly was the impetus for the police stopping it in the first place?  Third, I feel like I have to say this for the millionth time in 2020: You can walk and chew gum at the same time.  We are not debating the shooter's action because there is zero debate about whether that was right or wrong.  And the existence of one major wrong doesn't prevent discussion of other wrongs either.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

Now my memory may be off, but I thought they were driving the car of a friend of his.  One of those "drive my car from here to there" deals.

That’s right, I forgot they were meeting Uncle Phil’s friend and were driving his car 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

how is it a better solution to leave the gunshot victim unhelped until the paramedics arrive?  
 

 

Eh, better? I said reasonable.

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

what do you believes justifies the police stopping someone from administering first aid to a person in obvious need of one?

 

well, as I said, the police would have no idea the qualifications of the person in question, and they (the police) are certainly trained in first aid.

 

[visionary]

 

[bearrock]

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Eh, better? I said reasonable.

 

well, as I said, the police would have no idea the qualifications of the person in question, and they (the police) are certainly trained in first aid.

 

 

Well, if a medic is better trained and equipped to provide superior first aid than a police officer, then stopping the medic so that the police officer can provide the first aid (which I didn't see evidence of one of the officers doing that, but admittedly the video gets a bit obstructed at that point) is not only a worse solution, it is an unreasonable solution.  

 

If police took steps to ascertain the medic's qualifications or looked at what the medic was doing before deciding to get her away from the victim and kicking away her first aid kit, the theory may have more credence.  That clearly wasn't what happened on that video.

 

Again, a cynical police officer may expect the worst and take steps to verify whether there's credible suspicion of the worst case scenario.  But act first, ask questions later, is the wrong approach.

 

So next time somebody has a heart attack on the street.  A well meaning doctor goes and tries to administers CPR (or even more invasive emergency procedure in case of things like obstructed airway or collapsed lung).  You're gonna be okay with the police officer preventing the doctor from administering such life saving measures because the police just can't be sure that the person claiming to have medical training really does have one?  What would you like?  A fingerprint background check to come back before recognizing the person as qualified?  Should we just ban good Samaritan interventions altogether?  You never know when a random fake medic will pop in to do harm to people having medical emergencies in public. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

Well, if a medic is better trained and equipped to provide superior first aid than a police officer, then stopping the medic so that the police officer can provide the first aid 

 

sure, but there is no evidence that the medic was better trained.

 

 

Quote

 

So next time somebody has a heart attack on the street.  A well meaning doctor goes and tries to administers CPR (or even more invasive emergency procedure in case of things like obstructed airway or collapsed lung).  You're gonna be okay with the police officer preventing the doctor from administering such life saving measures because the police just can't be sure that the person claiming to have medical training really does have one? 
 

 

What would you like?  A fingerprint background check to come back before recognizing the person as qualified?  Should we just ban good Samaritan interventions altogether?  You never know when a random fake medic will pop in to do harm to people having medical emergencies in public. 

this is a ridiculous take on what happened, I’m sorry. There is a difference between a Good Samaritan helping someone on a quiet street and someone contaminating a crime scene where someone has been shot during violent protests.

Edited September 1, 2020 by CousinsCowgirl84

[China]

D.C. Has Been ‘Destroyed By Rioters,’ Claims Someone Who Clearly Hasn’t Looked Out Their Window

 

Our nation’s capital is practically a barren wasteland, at least according to a few viral social media posts that befuddled Washingtonians, who saw a very different reality when they looked out their windows.

 

One of these tweets came from a man who currently identifies himself on Twitter as Robert Sagraw, who described a “creepy vibe in DC right now” and a city largely “destroyed by rioters.” According to the post, Washingtonians have to “whistle past the boarded up windows” to pretend everything is normal during these dark times. Worse yet, he says, people are afraid to point it out or oppose the destruction.

 

The man appeared to double down on the alleged chaos in the city the next day. “Sirens and helicopters in DC for the past few hours,” he dispatched on Sunday. He didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. His Twitter bio describes him as a “small businessman.” He appears to have changed his last name on Twitter to Sagraw from Wargas after the tweet picked up steam. Robert Wargas is listed as a journalist for conservative outlets like PJ Media and the Catholic Herald.

 

His post quickly gained thousands of skeptical replies. It clearly struck a nerve with D.C. residents, who were quick to point out how discordant the alarming message was with the scene outside their front doors.

 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[tshile]

Went and looked up the bel air video. Used to watch that show religiously. Immediately remembered the general scene from the meme. 

 

at first I read the meme and thought “damn... they were trying to tell us something”

 

and then I watched the video.

 

 

The producers set it to a laugh track. 🙁

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[bearrock]

58 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

sure, but there is no evidence that the medic was better trained.

 

 

this is a ridiculous take on what happened, I’m sorry. There is a difference between a Good Samaritan helping someone on a quiet street and someone contaminating a crime scene where someone has been shot during violent protests.

 

Again, the police officer has no evidence to conclude one way or the other and the officer didn't take any steps to ascertain any relevant information.  The officer saw someone with the word medic on the back and a first aid kit.  It should at least create a reasonable possibility in the officer's mind that the medic is better trained and equipped to deal with the medical emergency (and again, do you see the officer moving the medic away and administering first aid in that video?  Cause I don't.  And if the officer's primary concern was that he or she would be better able to provide first aid, that should be the first thing we see the officer doing.).

 

And if you really think that preservation of the crime scene and/or evidence takes higher priority over trying to save the gunshot victim's life, that's a different problem altogether.  

 

[purbeast]

Seriously... WTF....

 

 

[visionary]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

17 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Again, the police officer has no evidence to conclude one way or the other and the officer didn't take any steps to ascertain any relevant information. 

 

The police officer doesn’t need to in order for his actions to be reasonable...

 

Police officers are trained to render 1st aid and has the authority to move people back from a crime scene and are better suited to obtain emergency services when they are needed than the public at large.

 

Personally I don’t see the need for outrage in this case, but you do you...

 

[visionary]