2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[drowland]

15 minutes ago, Blanka said:

The tell for me is when the trade up first happened Schefter believed it was for Mac.

His relationship with the Shanahan’s made me believe that wasn’t just a guess but an educated one. 

 

Remember when the WFT acquired John Beck way back when and Kyle told the story how he banged on the table lobbying for the Texans to draft Beck in the 1st round when Kyle was their OC?  And now Kyle has Lance working out with John Beck.  Such a weird connection.  Beck was training Wilson and Fields too so he might have told Kyle Fields isn't the right fit.  The 49ers future might be in the hands of John Beck lol.

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'm not a fan of trading back at this point in our rebuild. I dont think we lack overall depth on our roster, we lack blue chip talent. If the board falls terribly for us then fine, but that most likely means nobody will trade up for us either. If we're looking at the options and thinking "welp... this sucks" other teams are probably thinking the same thing. 

 

Take the best talent available. The 2008 draft where we picked 3 busts in the 2nd round when we decided to trade back with Atlanta is an example of how badly wrong things can go when you trade back sometimes. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This year is janky.  The best two defensive players are Parsons and Farley and they typify the extreme risk of this class.  That's why I'm begging for safety this year and just trusting in BPA and picking one of those two top running backs (and I think they are a clear step above Javonte).  Buy Amazon and Netflix as you said, and go makes some money.  On top of that, I've peeked ahead to the 2022 class and there aren't any RBs of similar ability and accomplishment to Etienne/Harris.  You just don't get Seniors like these two kids very often any more.  This is buying low on an oasis of value at the position in the middle of a drought.

 

BTW if players are stocks, then Mac Jones is Gamestop 🤣

 

lol.  Mac has some inflated price Gamestop in him but Gamestop somewhat came back to earth.  To me in reality he's more like a Home Depot stock wise, steady/strong safe but not that exciting but you'll make money over time. But yeah he's being treated like a FAANG stock.

 

I think Harris/Etienne/Williams are a clear peg over the next tier in this draft.  I think the next two are Michael Carter and Sermon but they are a clear peg or two below the top group.   Then I like K. Hill, Herbert but they to me are multiple pegs below.  Hill in particular is growing on me.    I don't like the depth of RB in this draft.  WR on the other hand has insane depth -- I got so many guys I like at that spot its nuts. 

 

So even though I pick up most people on this thread are hostile to picking a RB.  I am definitely not one of those who is opposed to it.  In fact, if they took Najee Harris that might be the pick that would get me the most jazzed.  I suspect its not happening.  Keim though of late has stressed RB is on their plate and also said he has no idea where in the draft.  So heck you never know?

[Going Commando]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

The Jets are in on Wilson. They won't screw around. 

 

That's probably smart.  But Wilson isn't so dominant that I wouldn't try and exploit my competitor's mistake in being so publicly married to a player when they're picking directly behind me.  Plus I've got extra picks in my pocket because of the Jamal Adams trade and that dumbass haul I held Carolina up for.

 

Let's say I wrench #3 and a player from SF for #2 and they turn around a pick Wilson.  OK I'll take Fields.

[drowland]

3 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm not a fan of trading back at this point in our rebuild. I dont think we lack overall depth on our roster, we lack blue chip talent. If the board falls terribly for us then fine, but that most likely means nobody will trade up for us either. If we're looking at the options and thinking "welp... this sucks" other teams are probably thinking the same thing. 

 

Take the best talent available. The 2008 draft where we picked 3 busts in the 2nd round when we decided to trade back with Atlanta is when trading back can go severely wrong. 

 

Vinny just picked the wrong dudes.  Jordy Nelson, DJax, Eddie Royal, Calais Campbell were all sitting their in the 2nd rd.  

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm not a fan of trading back at this point in our rebuild. I dont think we lack overall depth on our roster, we lack blue chip talent. If the board falls terribly for us then fine, but that most likely means nobody will trade up for us either. If we're looking at the options and thinking "welp... this sucks" other teams are probably thinking the same thing. 

 

Take the best talent available. The 2008 draft where we picked 3 busts in the 2nd round when we decided to trade back with Atlanta is an example of how badly wrong things can go when you trade back sometimes. 

I agree. I'm one of the few anti trade down people. Well, not so much anti trade down, but just don't want to pass up on blue chippers. Just having a bunch of picks doesn't guarantee anything. Would anyone trade Chase Young for another 1st and say 2nd from last year's draft? I mean without the benefit of hindsight?

 

It sounds good in theory but I'd rather have one dollar than four quarters.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That's probably smart.  But Wilson isn't so dominant that I wouldn't try and exploit my competitor's mistake in being so publicly married to a player when they're picking directly behind me.  Plus I've got extra picks in my pocket because of the Jamal Adams trade and that dumbass haul I held Carolina up for.

 

Let's say I wrench #3 and a player from SF for #2 and they turn around a pick Wilson.  OK I'll take Fields.

Unless you're getting a Deebo or Kinlaw then I don't see it happening.

[Skinsinparadise]

Laconfora just on also said he's heard they have interest in Moehrig.  If they've wanted that out there as a smokescreen because they are targeting another player, they did a masterful job.  😀  If its true, they've had a hard time keeping a lid on that one.  

 

The beat guys have suggested Moehrig in a trade down.  Laconfora (and he's not the only one) doesn't seem 100% convinced that he isn't gone before 19.  Laconfora also mentioned tackle depending on who is there.  He said he heard 4-5 O lineman could be gone before the pick.  He also mentioned corner.  Keim threw corner out recently too.  That's a position I didn't think would be hot early on but it seems possible.

[RWJ]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rapoport saying 49ers trying to get a consensus in the building about the pick.    Only consensus apparently is not to take Fields. 

 

 

 

Not taking Fields raise red flags to me.  It should with others as well.  

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Laconfora just on also said he's heard they have interest in Moehrig.  If they've wanted that out there as a smokescreen because they are targeting another player, they did a masterful job.  😀  If its true, they've had a hard time keeping a lid on that one.  

 

The beat guys have suggested Moehrig in a trade down.  Laconfora (and he's not the only one) doesn't seem 100% convinced isn't gone before 19.  Laconfora also mentioned tackle depending on who is there.  He said he heard 4-5 O lineman could be gone before the pick.  He also mentioned corner.  Keim throw corner out recently too.  That's a position I didn't think would be hot early on but it seems possible now.

JLC, yawn.  Not directed at you, SIP.  Sorry. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Not taking Fields raise red flags to me.  It should with others as well.  

 

I don't make much of it.  Rapoport said they don't dislike Fields but see the other guys as better fits.  Supposedly NE among other teams are hot for Fields.  Belichick is no dummy. 

[Ruzious]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Harris/Etienne/Williams are a clear peg over the next tier in this draft.  I think the next two are Michael Carter and Sermon but they are a clear peg or two below the top group.   Then I like K. Hill, Herbert but they to me are multiple pegs below.  Hill in particular is growing on me.    I don't like the depth of RB in this draft.  WR on the other hand has insane depth -- I got so many guys I like at that spot its nuts. 

 

I think they trade down several spots in the 1st round, and use whatever they get in that trade to move up in the second round to grab whoever's left from Harris/Etienne/Williams.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Not taking Fields raise red flags to me.  It should with others as well.  

JLC, yawn.  Not directed at you, SIP.  Sorry. 

 

Yeah i know you think he knows nothing about nothing.  But he's the dude that nailed the Haskins rumor first before that draft.  Also nailed the Trent wants out rumor first.   He mentioned the WFT's interest in Ryan Anderson before the draft.  He gets some right.  I don't discard everything he says like you seem to. 😀

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah i know you think he knows nothing about nothing.  But he's the dude that nailed the Haskins rumor first before that draft.  Also nailed the Trent wants out rumor first.   He mentioned the WFT's interest in Ryan Anderson before the draft.  He gets some right.  I don't discard everything he says like you seem to. 😀

We're good.

[method man]

I wouldn't be mad at all about Moehrig. It's just that with Cisco, Richie Grant and others, there is good value on waiting until round 2 if that is a need you'd want to fill

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Right now, I want us to stand down and take the players I've mentioned at #19.  We shall see.  

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, RWJ said:

We're good.

 

 Not that Laconfora is gospel.  But he's been right on occasion where I can't dismiss everything he says.  I know when he was with the WP, he wasn't liked, he crapped on the FO a lot at the time.  In retrospect, I am not sure he was wrong to do that but in real time I remember people hated that here.  He's no Schefter or Breer or Garafalo.  But sometimes he gets some stuff right.

 

Sticking with JLC, here's his take on some of the spots going in this draft. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-2021-breaking-down-likely-first-round-picks-at-each-position-reveals-locks-and-uncertainties/

Quarterback (5.5) 

We know five of them are going for sure and quite likely all within the first 10 picks. I am not buying that Justin Fields has some precipitous fall. We could well see the first four selections all being QBs. The question is, does someone get into the very back end of the first round for Davis Mills or Kellen Mond? It happens with considerable frequency. My hunch is no, but then again, the lack of impact depth at positions like pass rusher make me wonder.

Running back (1.5)

I continue to get the sense that Najee Harris is going in the first round, most likely to Miami at 18. Could another running back follow? It's not impossible, with North Carolina's Javonte Williams getting some buzz. Not many teams are likely to consider it, though the Steelers could.

Offensive line (5.5)

There are two players worthy of top 10 consideration in Penei Sewell (Oregon) and Rashawn Slater (Northwestern). The Vikings and Chargers have done a ton of work on this group as well, and Christian Darrisaw (Virginia Tech) and Alijah Vera-Tucker (USC) could go in that order at 13 and 14. Teven Jenkins (Oklahoma State) is the next tackle up, and I would consider him a lock for the first round. And at least one of the Alabama duo of Landon Dickerson or Alex Weatherwood or Oklahoma's Creed Humphrey could hear their name called Thursday as well. My hunch is at least six go.

 

Tight end (1.5)

Kyle Pitts may be the best prospect in this entire draft, regardless of position … And very well could be the only tight end to go Thursday.

Here's where you can purchase officially licensed NFL Draft hats and other NFL merchandise, some at 65% off.

Receiver (5.5)

There are three who are going in the top half of the first round (Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle and DeVonta Smith) and then things get interesting. Rashod Bateman of Minnesota will go Thursday, but some late medical rumblings about Terrace Marshall, Jr. may see him slide a bit. His agent, Vincent Taylor, told me there is nothing beyond normal football wear and tear on the big and explosive wideout. Kadarius Toney's size is an issue for some, and Elijah Moore is getting buzz, too, with Mississippi receivers having great immediate success in the NFL recently.

Cornerback (6.5)

This is another position with two blue chip prospects who will go in the first 10 or so picks (Patrick Surtain II and Jaycee Horn), and then a more murky second and third tier. Injury concerns with Caleb Farley (Virginia Tech) will likely see him slide. Georgia corners Eric Stokes and Tyson Campbell are hot and I could definitely see a run on corners starting in the teens and going into the 20s.

Safety (1.5)

I am convinced TCU's Trevon Moehrig is going in the first round and I hear a lot of people I trust linking him to the Raiders. That would make a lot of sense. Could one or two more follow? Richie Grant from UCF probably has the best shot, but this is not a high end overflowing with ballhawks.

 

EDGE (5.5)

Good luck sorting this out. Teams are struggling with this group and some may opt to simply address it on Day Two, trying to hit a double instead of a HR. Kwity Paye (Michigan) and Azeez Ojulari (Georgia) will very likely be the first to go. And then out of Jaelan Phillips (Miami), Greg Rousseau (Miami), Jayson Oweh (Penn State), Joseph Ossai (Texas), Joe Tryon (Washington) and Carlos Basham Jr. (Wake Forrest) I guess three more go in some sort of order but I would be throwing darts at this point trying to pin it down. More work to go sorting this out between now and Thursday.

Defensive tackle (.5)

Just not a lot here that is getting people excited. I do believe Alabama's Christian Barmore will go on Thursday (if the Giants trade down I could see them coming away with him with a big need at nose tackle right now). Levi Onwuzurike from Washington is another name to watch, but I could see runs on other positions keeping these numbers down on the first night.

Linebacker (5.5)

This group has been quietly getting a lot of love from front offices and could fill the gaps where defensive linemen and edge rushers are lacking. Speedy playmakers who can make plays in space are all the rage. Micah Parsons (Penn State) could go top 10 despite character issues. Arizona is among the teams that covet Zaven Collins (Tulsa). Jamin Davis (Kentucky) is a lock to go Day One based on what I am hearing, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (Notre Dame) may be moving to safety but he's a LB for these purposes, and as we told you a few weeks ago, teams believe Pete Werner (Ohio State) is going to go a heck of lot higher than where Mock Draft Nation is projecting, and maybe even into the mid-20s of this draft.

 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Said it before and I’ll say it again:

 

I love Cox 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 Not that Laconfora is gospel.  But he's been right on occasion where I can't dismiss everything he says.  I know when he was with the WP, he wasn't liked, he crapped on the FO a lot at the time.  In retrospect, I am not sure he was wrong to do that but in real time I remember people hated that here.  He's no Schefter or Breer or Garafalo.  But sometimes he gets some stuff right.

 

Sticking with JLC, here's his take on some of the spots going in this draft. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-2021-breaking-down-likely-first-round-picks-at-each-position-reveals-locks-and-uncertainties/

Quarterback (5.5) 

We know five of them are going for sure and quite likely all within the first 10 picks. I am not buying that Justin Fields has some precipitous fall. We could well see the first four selections all being QBs. The question is, does someone get into the very back end of the first round for Davis Mills or Kellen Mond? It happens with considerable frequency. My hunch is no, but then again, the lack of impact depth at positions like pass rusher make me wonder.

Running back (1.5)

I continue to get the sense that Najee Harris is going in the first round, most likely to Miami at 18. Could another running back follow? It's not impossible, with North Carolina's Javonte Williams getting some buzz. Not many teams are likely to consider it, though the Steelers could.

Offensive line (5.5)

There are two players worthy of top 10 consideration in Penei Sewell (Oregon) and Rashawn Slater (Northwestern). The Vikings and Chargers have done a ton of work on this group as well, and Christian Darrisaw (Virginia Tech) and Alijah Vera-Tucker (USC) could go in that order at 13 and 14. Teven Jenkins (Oklahoma State) is the next tackle up, and I would consider him a lock for the first round. And at least one of the Alabama duo of Landon Dickerson or Alex Weatherwood or Oklahoma's Creed Humphrey could hear their name called Thursday as well. My hunch is at least six go.

 

Tight end (1.5)

Kyle Pitts may be the best prospect in this entire draft, regardless of position … And very well could be the only tight end to go Thursday.

Here's where you can purchase officially licensed NFL Draft hats and other NFL merchandise, some at 65% off.

Receiver (5.5)

There are three who are going in the top half of the first round (Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle and DeVonta Smith) and then things get interesting. Rashod Bateman of Minnesota will go Thursday, but some late medical rumblings about Terrace Marshall, Jr. may see him slide a bit. His agent, Vincent Taylor, told me there is nothing beyond normal football wear and tear on the big and explosive wideout. Kadarius Toney's size is an issue for some, and Elijah Moore is getting buzz, too, with Mississippi receivers having great immediate success in the NFL recently.

Cornerback (6.5)

This is another position with two blue chip prospects who will go in the first 10 or so picks (Patrick Surtain II and Jaycee Horn), and then a more murky second and third tier. Injury concerns with Caleb Farley (Virginia Tech) will likely see him slide. Georgia corners Eric Stokes and Tyson Campbell are hot and I could definitely see a run on corners starting in the teens and going into the 20s.

Safety (1.5)

I am convinced TCU's Trevon Moehrig is going in the first round and I hear a lot of people I trust linking him to the Raiders. That would make a lot of sense. Could one or two more follow? Richie Grant from UCF probably has the best shot, but this is not a high end overflowing with ballhawks.

 

EDGE (5.5)

Good luck sorting this out. Teams are struggling with this group and some may opt to simply address it on Day Two, trying to hit a double instead of a HR. Kwity Paye (Michigan) and Azeez Ojulari (Georgia) will very likely be the first to go. And then out of Jaelan Phillips (Miami), Greg Rousseau (Miami), Jayson Oweh (Penn State), Joseph Ossai (Texas), Joe Tryon (Washington) and Carlos Basham Jr. (Wake Forrest) I guess three more go in some sort of order but I would be throwing darts at this point trying to pin it down. More work to go sorting this out between now and Thursday.

Defensive tackle (.5)

Just not a lot here that is getting people excited. I do believe Alabama's Christian Barmore will go on Thursday (if the Giants trade down I could see them coming away with him with a big need at nose tackle right now). Levi Onwuzurike from Washington is another name to watch, but I could see runs on other positions keeping these numbers down on the first night.

Linebacker (5.5)

This group has been quietly getting a lot of love from front offices and could fill the gaps where defensive linemen and edge rushers are lacking. Speedy playmakers who can make plays in space are all the rage. Micah Parsons (Penn State) could go top 10 despite character issues. Arizona is among the teams that covet Zaven Collins (Tulsa). Jamin Davis (Kentucky) is a lock to go Day One based on what I am hearing, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (Notre Dame) may be moving to safety but he's a LB for these purposes, and as we told you a few weeks ago, teams believe Pete Werner (Ohio State) is going to go a heck of lot higher than where Mock Draft Nation is projecting, and maybe even into the mid-20s of this draft.

 

 

 

That's cool.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Said it before and I’ll say it again:

 

I love Cox 

 

I like him.  I'd take Werner over him though since IMO he's more well rounded.   My favorite 3rd-4th round type is Barnes. 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He said he heard 4-5 O lineman could be gone before the pick.  He also mentioned corner.  Keim throw corner out recently too.  That's a position I didn't think would be hot early on but it seems possible now.

 

I think 4 will be gone too.  All indications are that there is a top four in the class (Sewell, Slater, AVT, Darrisaw) and then a shelf before the next group, and we're on the wrong side of that shelf.  The consensus seems to be that the OL you take at 19 won't be meaningfully better than the OL you take at 32.  I no longer think Darrisaw will drop to us.

 

I  think we kind of tipped our interest in a premium player at corner when it came out that we interviewed Newsome and Samuel (and now we know we've interviewed Farley a lot).  Those are first and second round guys, so an early corner has been on the table for us, and I think it's really clear that it's not just man corners like we thought after we signed William Jackson.  We're looking at guys who are multiple and can play both cover 1 and cover 3 at a high level.  You're not getting the really good, versatile corners later in the class, I think it needs to be a Rolls Royce player in round one or two, unless we get really lucky. 

 

We've got enough quality at CB that it's not so easy to upgrade who we have, but not so much quality that it can't be done with some of the best players in this class.

 

I think Newsome is in play for us if he is there at 19.  I think Farley probably is too.  And I think Asante Samuel Jr is the favorite at 51 if he's there and we don't draft a corner at 19.

 

I'm on record as being bearish on Farley because of his bad back, but I love the player.  If we get him, I'll hold my breath and hope for the best because he's such a stud.  And he doesn't have character problems like Parsons so far as I know.  He's an alpha ballhawking DB and him roaming around in zone coverages behind this pressure front is a recipe for dominance.

 

I'm a yes vote on Newsome and Samuel and a yes vote on Farley if we can trade down or if it turns out his back injury really isn't serious and he'll be ready to go for training camp.  I'm also a yes vote on both Horn and Surtain.  The wildcards for me are Tyson Campbell and Eric Stokes.  These dudes have world class speed and I actually liked Stokes's film.  I know you like Schwartz, I'll reiterate that Tyson Campbell ran track with him in H.S. and was not that much slower than him in the 100 meters.  I think I'm a yes vote on Stokes at 51 and I'm not totally sure about Campbell at 51 but kind of lean yes.  But I also think I like Samuel better than both and would prefer him at 51 if granted the choice.

 

Jackson Carman is the other monster gamble I'm interested in making like Farley, particularly if we play it safe in rounds one and two.  I haven't heard anything about the nature or seriousness of his back injury, but if he is ready to go for camp, he sticks out like a sore thumb in round three as providing value for our scheme.

 

If we wanted to go crazy on the risk, we could draft Farley in rd 1, Carman in rd 3, and Trey Smith in rd 4.  The range of outcomes there are either a no-doubter grand slam of a class where you add three or four dominant starters or a complete wash where you come away with nothing.

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Said it before and I’ll say it again:

 

I love Cox 

Not that there's anything wrong with that , lol

 

 

i wish he were a little better against the run.

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That's where he becomes tempting to me.  If his back is shot, I can still salvage a good draft if I get him in the second.  If I spend 19 on him, there is way too big of a chance I get a one or zero player class from this draft, and that would be a huge set back in the rebuild.

He also opted out last year ...that along with the back concerns raise red flags to me.  I don't necessarily fault him for opting out but its pause for concern when looking to take him at 19.

[PartyPosse]

I love this time of the season when a good 140 players are absolutely assuredly going in the first round according to experts.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think 4 will be gone too.  All indications are that there is a top four in the class (Sewell, Slater, AVT, Darrisaw) and then a shelf before the next group, and we're on the wrong side of that shelf.  The consensus seems to be that the OL you take at 19 won't be meaningfully better than the OL you take at 32.  I no longer think Darrisaw will drop to us.

 

I  think we kind of tipped our interest in a premium player at corner when it came out that we interviewed Newsome and Samuel (and now we know we've interviewed Farley a lot).  Those are first and second round guys, so an early corner has been on the table for us, and I think it's really clear that it's not just man corners like we thought after we signed William Jackson.  We're looking at guys who are multiple and can play both cover 1 and cover 3 at a high level.  You're not getting the really good, versatile corners later in the class, I think it needs to be a Rolls Royce player in round one or two, unless we get really lucky. 

 

We've got enough quality at CB that it's not so easy to upgrade who we have, but not so much quality that it can't be done with some of the best players in this class.

 

I think Newsome is in play for us if he is there at 19.  I think Farley probably is too.  And I think Asante Samuel Jr is the favorite at 51 if he's there and we don't draft a corner at 19.

.

 

I'd add Keim mentioning they like the Georgia corners.  So that has us adding Stokes, Campbell to the mix of the others you mentioned.  If you add all of them up we are tied to more top end corners than any other position.  

 

Between that and their supposed interest in Koramoah and Cox and Moehrig and Cisco, etc.  It gives the vibe that they really wanted to shut down the opponent's passing game.

 

2 things hit me about that.

 

A.  The defense for its strengths gave up one of the highest numbers of big plays in the passing game in the league

 

B.  I recall reading an article after the playoff game where Brady after studying the WFT defense his conclusion was the secondary could be had.  He just needed protection but if he got that he thought he can pick apart their secondary.  Tampa gave him that protection and he indeed picked them apart.

 

So it feels like they want to put a stop to this.