2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Ruzious]

On 2/14/2021 at 6:31 AM, Koolblue13 said:

It really bugs me that we just aren't going to have a shot at Pits and he'll probably be an Eagle his entire career.

 

I have him going to the Giants.  If he somehow slips to 19, WFT's we have a celebration.  Just a tiny chance - but ya never know.  There are just enough WR's and pass-rushers and linemen that teams can get caught up with picking that it's possible - barely.    

[Skinsinparadise]

Going through some more mocks today, if the consensus is on the money, the before 19:

 

5 QBs

J. Chase

D. Smith

K.Pitts

P. Sewell

M. Parsons -- even with his baggage

R. Slater

P. Surtain

Paye 

So that's 13 players

 

Often before 19

Barmore

Rosseau

J. Waddle

C. Darrisaw

C. Farley

 

If so that's 18 going before 19.  And you almost always have a couple of surprises but lets say it goes that way, then you'd have a choice of...

J. Horrn

T. Jenkins

N. Harris

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Cosmi

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

So we have so many needs, is there any position we take with the first pick that would surprise you ? And/or upset you ?

I'm guessing of course DT and DE, by most people. But personally I would add CB to that, as well. Yes, we should draft a CB, but not with the first pick. (Unless we lose Darby in FA)

Edited February 15, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Burgundy Yoda]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Going through some more mocks today, if the consensus is on the money, the before 19:

 

5 QBs

J. Chase

D. Smith

K.Pitts

P. Sewell

M. Parsons -- even with his baggage

R. Slater

P. Surtain

Paye 

So that's 13 players

 

Often before 19

Barmore

Rosseau

J. Waddle

C. Darrisaw

C. Farley

 

If so that's 18 going before 19.  And you almost always have a couple of surprises but lets say it goes that way, then you'd have a choice of...

J. Horrn

T. Jenkins

N. Harris

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Cosmi

 

This draft is so rich at the OT spot. I will say that when Ron was with the Panthers they never once took a CB/S/OL/TE in the 1st round. I actually find the fact they never drafted an OL in the 1st during his tenure pretty astounding. 

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

So we have so many needs, is there any position we take with the first pick that would surprise you ? And/or upset you ?

I'm guessing of course DL and DE, by most people. But personally I would add CB to that, as well. Yes, we should draft a CB, but not with the first pick.

1st pick being a RB, C, DE, or DT will irritate me for sure. I wouldn't mind if we drafted depth along the DL later on though, keep the pipeline strong. Everything else is game and upgradable I think. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

's 18 going before 19.  And you almost always have a couple of surprises but lets say it goes that way, then you'd have a choice of...

J. Horrn

T. Jenkins

N. Harris

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Cosmi

 

 

There are always some surprises, but none of the guys you mention there interest me at this point. I would want to trade down and add capital this or next year.

 

Curious to see what happens with Trey Lance. After his R-Freshman year he went from "out of nowhere" to Zierlein, Matt Miller and others putting him down as a Top-5 pick QB. Of course he went on to not play this year, so he has one year of tape ... as a freshman playing at FCS NDSU.

 

I wonder if the "media draft gurus" fell for this guy but teams behind the scenes are scared off by the pure rawness. Someone will take a gamble, but could he be on of the players that free-falls down the board on draft day?

 

What if he fell to #19 and WFT opted to draft an OT or a CB instead?! How nuts would that be. But maybe real teams have R2 grades on him. Anyway, all that is to say, let's not discount him sliding. It might not happen, but if someone slides he makes the most sense.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

There are always some surprises, but none of the guys you mention there interest me at this point. I would want to trade down and add capital this or next year.

 

Curious to see what happens with Trey Lance. After his R-Freshman year he went from "out of nowhere" to Zierlein, Matt Miller and others putting him down as a Top-5 pick QB. Of course he went on to not play this year, so he has one year of tape ... as a freshman playing at FCS NDSU.

 

I wonder if the "media draft gurus" fell for this guy but teams behind the scenes are scared off by the pure rawness. Someone will take a gamble, but could he be on of the players that free-falls down the board on draft day?

 

What if he fell to #19 and WFT opted to draft an OT or a CB instead?! How nuts would that be. But maybe real teams have R2 grades on him. Anyway, all that is to say, let's not discount him sliding. It might not happen, but if someone slides he makes the most sense.

 

I think there are too many teams shopping for QBs for Lance to fall to 19.  Yeah its possible the mock draft types -- heck Lance is becoming hot as top 5 pick with some of them -- could be wrong. Will see.

 

Haskins would ironically be an example of a divide between mock drafters and personnel people.  If I recall it was Matt Miller and Zierlien who both said they heard personnel people weren't that high on Haskins and there is a divide between them and mock drafters.  But those stories leaked months before the draft.  Will see if similar stories leak about Lance.  I doubt it though.

 

Ironically the WFT supposed interest in Lance is being discussed on 106.7 right now.  Haynes who covers the team for a local TV station said a few days ago (I posed it on the Qb thread) said he heard from someone he trusts with the team that they like Lance.   So they are doubiling down on that story on air right now. 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

33 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

There are always some surprises, but none of the guys you mention there interest me at this point. I would want to trade down and add capital this or next year.

 

Agreed, If that's the range we're looking I'd prefer to trade down too. Jenkins and Horn would be the most disappointing for me personally if we were to chose. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Chump Bailey

[Darth Tater]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think there are too many teams shopping for QBs for Lance to fall to 19.  Yeah its possible the mock draft types -- heck Lance is becoming hot as top 5 pick with some of them -- could be wrong. Will see.

 

Haskins would ironically be an example of a divide between mock drafters and personnel people.  If I recall it was Matt Miller and Zierlien who both said they heard personnel people weren't that high on Haskins and there is a divide between them and mock drafters.  But those stories leaked months before the draft.  Will see if similar stories leak about Lance.  I doubt it though.

 

Ironically the WFT supposed interest in Lance is being discussed on 106.7 right now.  Haynes who covers the team for a local TV station said a few days ago (I posed it on the Qb thread) said he heard from someone he trusts with the team that they like Lance.   So they are doubiling down on that story on air right now. 

 

 

This actually makes me feel sorry for Lance. The best teams for him are drafting later than 19 except San Fran (a good destination but only if they keep Jimmy G.).  Lance would do best with a team with an aging QB star (or an injury prone one), real competition for the future starting job (thing about being a first round, you don't) and a coaching staff known for developing top QBs.

[Number 44]

6 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

This actually makes me feel sorry for Lance. The best teams for him are drafting later than 19 except San Fran (a good destination but only if they keep Jimmy G.).  Lance would do best with a team with an aging QB star (or an injury prone one), real competition for the future starting job (thing about being a first round, you don't) and a coaching staff known for developing top QBs.

Why not Atlanta or Carolina?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

26 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Why not Atlanta or Carolina?

 

Yeah, Carolina or Detroit make a ton of sense for him. Both have QBs they can rely on in 2021 and 2022 (Detroit at least). San Francisco with Garoppolo as well. Maybe even Minnesota with Kirk.

 

So that's 4 QB-needy teams ahead of us who make sense for Lance. Of course, feel free to include Atlanta, but I sense they'll either be picking Fields or Wilson, or (if someone trades up to 3 for either one), possibly considering Sewell at #4 over a project QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

New mock from a former scout working at the draft network. he has us trading up to #7 to take Lance

 

 

 

 

Some of the other picks

 

Pitts #2

Slater:  #10

M. Jones #15 (though he doesn't think he deserves to be taken that high)

Cosmi #21

Etienne #23

Darrisaw:  #24

Z. Collins #28

N. Harris #30

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

This draft is so rich at the OT spot. I will say that when Ron was with the Panthers they never once took a CB/S/OL/TE in the 1st round. I actually find the fact they never drafted an OL in the 1st during his tenure pretty astounding. 

1st pick being a RB, C, DE, or DT will irritate me for sure. I wouldn't mind if we drafted depth along the DL later on though, keep the pipeline strong. Everything else is game and upgradable I think. 

 

Tackle:  Even though I am not as enamored with Darrisaw as some, I'd like him at 19, good player IMO.  I like Cosmi, too.  Interesting that the scout in the mock I posted put Cosmi ahead of Darrisaw.  I wondered last week if I prefer Cosmi too but I got to rewatch Cosmi, its been a long time.  I haven't watched Teven Jenkins yet.   

 

WR:  I am not in favor of drafting one of them in the first.  I'd maybe consider Waddle though if he fell but depends on who else is there.

 

RB:  Sometimes my positions mirror someone on this thread closely before the draft.  Last year I recall my take on TE's, RBs and WRs were almost identical to @KDawg.  I haven't finished diving into those spots yet to do much comparisons with my takes with others.  But I'll get there.   This year, I know this much, I share to a tee with @stevemcqueen1's love for both N. Harris and Etienne.  I wouldn't hate either at this spot.   Normally I am not a draft a RB early kind of guy.   I agree with @stevemcqueen1that Etienne has some Dalvin Cook in him.  I was a huge Cook guy before that draft on this thread.  I noticed Etienne creeping into the first round more of late in mocks, not sure if that means anything.  I am more of a Harris guy if I had to pick one.

 

C-DE-DT:  I doubt they take one unless the idea is to move Dickerson to guard. 

 

LB:  I've liked Zaven Collins even before it caught fire on this thread.  So I'd be cool with it.   I watched Nick Bolton but its been a long time, I recall liking him but not loving him but it was just one game so I need to watch more.  Same point on Koramoah. 

 

I think Kyle Pitts is rock star level good.  As I keep repeating on this thread if some of the mocks are right and he falls to the teens, i'd trade up for him.  If I had to pick a guy in this draft that would be my guy.  

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Going through some more mocks today, if the consensus is on the money, the before 19:

 

5 QBs

J. Chase

D. Smith

K.Pitts

P. Sewell

M. Parsons -- even with his baggage

R. Slater

P. Surtain

Paye 

So that's 13 players

 

Often before 19

Barmore

Rosseau

J. Waddle

C. Darrisaw

C. Farley

 

If so that's 18 going before 19.  And you almost always have a couple of surprises but lets say it goes that way, then you'd have a choice of...

J. Horrn

T. Jenkins

N. Harris

Z. Collins

Koramoah

Cosmi

 

This happens you trade back 3-8 spots and take whoever is the best player on your board.

 

Which may well be Harris which I am not arguing with

Edited February 15, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

This happens you trade back 3-8 spots and take whoever is the best player on your board.

 

I agree.  i am totally cool with trading down.  Keim hit this idea in a couple of podcasts as to it being on the table.  And I saw some mock draft type guy (forgetting whom) was asked what team he thought would trade down, he mentioned three teams including ours.  I'd do it. 

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

New mock from a former scout working at the draft network. he has us trading up to #7 to take Lance

 

 

 

 

Some of the other picks

 

Pitts #2

Slater:  #10

M. Jones #15 (though he doesn't think he deserves to be taken that high)

Cosmi #21

Etienne #23

Darrisaw:  #24

Z. Collins #28

N. Harris #30

I traded up and got him at 12.  I also traded up and got Collins at 40.  Rounded it out with: 85 Tremble

124 Adebo CB

164 Robert Jones G

243 Jalen Camp WR

245 Herring EDGE

So I lost a third rounder in 21, a first in 22, a fifth in 22, and got an extra sixth in 22.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I traded up and got him at 12.  I also traded up and got Collins at 40.  Rounded it out with: 85 Tremble

 

 

That would be awesome, if only that could happen.. 😀

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This happens you trade back 3-8 spots and take whoever is the best player on your board.

 

Which may well be Harris which I am not arguing with

I'd be great with Harris too, but if Collins is there at 19 I can't imagine us not grabbing him. Possibly our biggest hole on a team coached by two big time LBers. If you can get a guy that's 260, fast and LOVES to play football, you just have to do it. I'd be disappointed if we passed.

[mhd24]

SteveMcqueen:

 

You might want to watch this

 

 

 

 

Pauline LOVES Rondale Moore.  

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd be great with Harris too, but if Collins is there at 19 I can't imagine us not grabbing him. Possibly our biggest hole on a team coached by two big time LBers. If you can get a guy that's 260, fast and LOVES to play football, you just have to do it. I'd be disappointed if we passed.

I’m hoping we plug one of those spots (or both) with a big FA signing and leave the draft to true BPA

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I’m hoping we plug one of those spots (or both) with a big FA signing and leave the draft to true BPA

If we sign David and Collins is on the board at 19, I'm running to the podium and giggling like a child.

 

Edit- Moehrig starts looking very good at 19 also if we have David.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Koolblue13

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If we sign David and Collins is on the board at 19, I'm running to the podium and giggling like a child.

 

Edit- Moehrig starts looking very good at 19 also if we have David.

Yes he does. Too many scenarios still for me to say I’d definitely draft so and so at any spot. 
 

Collins, Moehrig, Harris, Darrisaw, Cosmi are the ones I’m looking at of the guys that are possibly there.

Edited February 16, 2021 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Yes he does. Too many scenarios still for me to say I’d definitely draft so and so at any spot. 
 

Collins, Moehrig, Harris, Darrisaw, Cosmi are the ones I’m looking at of the guys that are possibly there.

True. It's just talk right now. If we sign David, then FS becomes much heavier in BPA consideration. Cosmi should be there in the second, but that's been steves guy for 2 years, so I'd be happy with him. 

 

So exciting. Of that list though, Collins is the clear BPA in my opinion with nothing else considered.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Of that list though, Collins is the clear BPA in my opinion with nothing else considered.

 

If mocks are any guide (and they might not be) Collins should be there at 19.  From what I saw, I think he's more of an outside LB than a MLB, I think more strong side even though he played mostly weak in college if I recall.  We need IMO both an outside and MLB anyway. 

 

With his size/speed, he'd be sick in if he lined up just behind  (bunched) Sweat or Young in obvious pass rush situations especially if he adds some pass rushing moves.  Right now he basically uses his athleticism on that front versus being a refined pass rusher.  You can keep him in nickel because he's so good against the pass.   He's clearly not one of these undersized linebackers who thrive in nickel but can be bulldozed at times by lineman in the run game.  He's a big dude who can rush the passer and cover. 

 

He needs to IMO improve as a run stopper albeit he's decent on that front, too.

 

PFF has him at 93.7 in coverage which is insane.  90.9 as a pass rusher.  66.3 against the run which is pedestrian and 13.3% missed tackles which is OK but not hot.  Nick Bolton for example, 79 against the run but 58.8 against the pass. Jabril Cox who is more about defending the pass than stopping the run (nickel type LB) with an 83.5 against the pass, 55 against the run, with the same 13.3% missed tackle rate as Collins.

 

 Not that PFF is the be all end all with scores but often it can match up fairly well. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If mocks are any guide (and they might not be) Collins should be there at 19.  From what I saw, I think he's more of an outside LB than a MLB, I think more strong side even though he played mostly weak in college if I recall.  We need IMO both an outside and MLB anyway. 

 

With his size/speed, he'd be sick in if he lined up just behind  (bunched) Sweat or Young in obvious pass rush situations especially if he adds some pass rushing moves.  Right now he basically uses his athleticism on that front versus being a refined pass rusher.  You can keep him in nickel because he's so good against the pass.   He's clearly not one of these undersized linebackers who thrive in nickel but can be bulldozed at times by lineman in the run game.  He's a big dude who can rush the passer and cover. 

 

He needs to IMO improve as a run stopper albeit he's decent on that front, too.

 

PFF has him at 93.7 in coverage which is insane.  90.9 as a pass rusher.  66.3 against the run which is pedestrian and 13.3% missed tackles which is OK but not hot.  Nick Bolton for example, 79 against the run but 58.8 against the pass. Jabril Cox who is more about defending the pass than stopping the run (nickel type LB) with an 83.5 against the pass, 55 against the run, with the same 13.3% missed tackle rate as Collins.

 

 Not that PFF is the be all end all with scores but often it can match up fairly well. 

 

 

Bolton is my 1B for a LBer because of his fit for us. I know he has a "slow" tag on him, but that dude just produces. 

 

At some point our offense is going to be firing on all cylinders and having a 260lbs LBer with a 93.7 grade against the pass is going to be incredibly handy. I also think the running lanes against us generally end up being huge holes. Our SSs are run stoppers as well. It's hard to know exactly the type of LBer we really need, with how bad they've been. 

 

It's not just the physical attributes that make me want Collins so much. It's the way his coach talks about him and about who he seems to be a teammate and player. Seems like the perfect fit. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bolton is my 1B for a LBer because of his fit for us. I know he has a "slow" tag on him, but that dude just produces. 

 

At some point our offense is going to be firing on all cylinders and having a 260lbs LBer with a 93.7 grade against the pass is going to be incredibly handy. I also think the running lanes against us generally end up being huge holes. Our SSs are run stoppers as well. It's hard to know exactly the type of LBer we really need, with how bad they've been. 

 

It's not just the physical attributes that make me want Collins so much. It's the way his coach talks about him and about who he seems to be a teammate and player. Seems like the perfect fit. 

 

I am cool with Collins, I believe i was the first one to post about him on the thread, and posted some of those articles.   So I am an easy sell.  I often have a player or two I zero in on wanting in a big way as to the first round pick.  I have multiple guys right now on that front so for me its not Collins or anyone else in a runaway.  Only dude right now in a runaway lead is on the off chance Pitts slips to the teens i want to trade up for him.  I think he's going to be distinctly special than any of the likely players landing at 19.  The dude is a freak.  

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/tulsa-lb-collins-a-small-town-player-with-big-time-talent/

“Unbelievable kid, unbelievable teammate, great leader,” Tulsa coach Philip Montgomery said after the Tulane game. “Why is that guy not in the running for the Heisman? Tell me someone that has affected more games than that guy. I mean, if we want to talk about the best football players in college football, in my opinion, he’s there.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise