What Offer Would Change Your Mind on Trading Down???

[Malapropismic Depository]

This poll option is absolutely positively impossible :

 

" Only if you can convince me of an impossible scenario where we can still get Chase Young, good luck "

[cakmoney61]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Using the "draft is such a crap shoot" may be the worst argument for NOT trading down. That it's a crap shoot is exactly why you trade down. I know there are many that are ready to anoint CY the next LT and put him in the HOF as an absolute can't miss talent - which is exactly what you are implying above. I disagree strongly with your characterization that anyone past CY will be "JAG".  If we drop say 3 to 5 spots we could still easily get an elite player, especially as QBs rise on the board as they always do. I would not be surprised if Herbert went top 10 or 15, or maybe Eason. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like CY too. His potential is great. But his chances of busting out are still close to 50% just like everyone else. So if the goal is take the least risk of getting players that will contribute then you likely trade down. 

 

The best argument I have seen for NOT trading down is CY has the best chance to be an elite player something we are truly lacking. That makes sense. 

 

In the end, unless they really do something stupid, we should like whatever they do. 

 

 

Edit: Let me add - the other good reason is to double down on the Dline. We have a good Dline already with some decent depth. But most teams that have great Dlines, continue to double down and use resources to make sure they stay dominant. 

 

I think you misread my post.  I am not arguing for CY at all.  I simply gave my preference in the first paragraph and why.  My second paragraph simply states the difficulty of trying to figure out who will be great and who will be a JAG.  I don't envy whoever is/are making that decision, because they will get crushed if they make the wrong choice.  This fan base is desperate for a winner.

[Renegade7]

38 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

 

 

Exactly

 

He was being sarcastic.

 

Yall need to chill, I specificly requested everyone be respectful to others even if yall disagree.

 

I'm not interested in this thread turning into a ****show, save that for other threads, that's why I posted the pick valuation chart in OP and still waiting for posters to use it in their conversations. 

 

If I have to post the comparison value of the Dolphins three 1st rounders versus our #2 myself after i finish cleaning and studying today, I will.

 

20 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

This poll option is absolutely positively impossible :

 

" Only if you can convince me of an impossible scenario where we can still get Chase Young, good luck "

 

If Detroit gets rid of Stafford then swaps with us giving us a second rounder and not falling below the giants, no its not. Incredibly improbable, but closest I've seen so far to not impossible.

 

Edit: thinking about it, they dont have to get rid of Stafford yet, they jus need to get his replacement while they are drafting this high.  Having said that, they could be serious about committing to Stafford then lie to us so they can get Chase Young leaving us with minutes to figure out what to do next.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He was being sarcastic.

 

Yall need to chill, I specificly requested everyone be respectful to others even if yall disagree.

 

I'm not interested in this thread turning into a ****show, save that for other threads, that's why I posted the pick valuation chart in OP and still waiting for posters to use it in their conversations.  If I have to post the comparison value of the Dolphins three 1st rounders versus our #2 myself after i finish cleaning and studying today, I will.

 

Sorry, but it just irks me when people repeat objectively wrong information and using it as a justification for their opinion. 

 

As far as Stafford, why would the Lions trade a good, proven, and non-injury prone QB (before last season he'd played something like 140 consecutive games), and then spend draft picks to move up for a rookie QB with an injury history who also happens to still be rehabbing from a devastating one? Stafford isn't elite but he's definitely good, and while he isn't exactly a spring chicken he's only 31. The Lions have way bigger problems than QB. Their defense was one of the worst in the league last year and they need to fill multiple spots to upgrade it. 

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sorry, but it just irks me when people repeat objectively wrong information and using it as a justification for their opinion. 

 

As far as Stafford, why would the Lions trade a good, proven, and non-injury prone QB (before last season he'd played something like 140 consecutive games), and then spend draft picks to move up for a rookie QB with an injury history who also happens to still be rehabbing from a devastating one? Stafford isn't elite but he's definitely good, and while he isn't exactly a spring chicken he's only 31. The Lions have way bigger problems than QB. Their defense was one of the worst in the league last year and they need to fill multiple spots to upgrade it. 

 

Then why are you quoting me on the Dolphins in your attempts to kill the discussion on the Lions? Stafford has fractures on his spin that they couldnt do surgery on and a built in out after next season in his contract, I can see where the rumors came from.

 

There is nothing objectively wrong about this, if Detroit isnt at least weighing their options on what's best for the franchise, they arent earning their paychecks, that's their job.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2864085-report-matthew-stafford-maniacal-about-2019-injury-return-may-be-shut-down

 

It doesnt matter how old he is or previous injury history if he has a spine injury they cant do surgery on to fix.  That changes things, at least it should.

[Darth Tater]

At this time given what I think of Young?  If Cincinnati takes Young or trades their pick to someone who takes Young.  Now if someone comes back from the future (and I believe their time travel claim)...

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Then why are you quoting me on the Dolphins in your attempts to kill the discussion on the Lions? Stafford has fractures on his spin that they couldnt do surgery on and a built in out after next season in his contract, I can see where the rumors came from.

 

There is nothing objectively wrong about this, if Detroit isnt at least weighing their options on what's best for the franchise, they arent earning their paychecks, that's their job.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2864085-report-matthew-stafford-maniacal-about-2019-injury-return-may-be-shut-down

 

It doesnt matter how old he is or previous injury history if he has a spine injury they cant do surgery on to fix.  That changes things, at least it should.

 

I was talking about "Objectively wrong" as far as someone repeating the "Chase had zero sacks against Clemson so he was a non-factor" argument. 

 

3 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

At this time given what I think of Young?  If Cincinnati takes Young or trades their pick to someone who takes Young.  Now if someone comes back from the future (and I believe their time travel claim)...

 

I mean...let's be honest, is this even anything close to a realistic thing? Cincy is taking Burrow. It's their ideal situation. They can finally let Dalton, who is the definition of mediocrity, go for zero cap hit while simultaneously being in a position to draft the best QB in a draft...one who just had one of the best college seasons in history. 

 

I think the chances of Cincy not taking Burrow are about 1,000,000 to 1 against. 

[Birdlives]

The thing about trading down isn’t just that you’re giving up on getting Young, it’s that you’re possibly giving him to the Giants. If he’s what people believe he is, you get to deal with him twice a year for the next ten. Not good.

[Stormy]

If the Redskins could come out of a trade still having a top 5-6 pick, and with 3-4 picks in the top 60, I think you’d have to consider it. Use the following hypothetical players from a trade back... 

 

Okudah - potential superstar shutdown CB1

 

Thomas - immediate starting LT

 

Kmet - starting TE with star potential

 

Are we better with Chase Young at DE, and not another pick until the 3rd, or with Okudah, Thomas, and someone like Kmet/Higgins? As much as I’d love to have Chase Young, I think this is the type of trade that could give the team an influx of young, instant star power, at numerous positions of need.
 

I would think the team would seriously consider such an offer. This would have to be conditioned on trading with a team that still has a top 5-6 pick, as I think that still ensures us a pick of the top tier talent before the sizable drop off after Okudah/Simmons. 

[Darth Tater]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I mean...let's be honest, is this even anything close to a realistic thing? Cincy is taking Burrow. It's their ideal situation. They can finally let Dalton, who is the definition of mediocrity, go for zero cap hit while simultaneously being in a position to draft the best QB in a draft...one who just had one of the best college seasons in history. 

 

I think the chances of Cincy not taking Burrow are about 1,000,000 to 1 against. 

Ideal from Mike Browns view could very well be to load up on high draft choices (like Miami's firsts this year plus their number 1 next year). Very cheap way to get Cicny gear sold till about 2022. Of course, Burrows also is a local guy on top of being ultra-talented, so also cheap to market guy  Will agree if they stay at home with the pick, Burrows is the choice.

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I was talking about "Objectively wrong" as far as someone repeating the "Chase had zero sacks against Clemson so he was a non-factor" argument. 

 

 

Gotcha, and I agree, so even though I try to make clear im not in the "Chase or nothing" camp, there are too many people that evaluate players like him for a living saying hed a no brainer for me to ignore that.

 

Thing is, I've heard this before, and they admit even they are wrong sometime, in context of my opinion of what I believe is best for the franchise. Emphasis "opinion".

 

I'm trying to meet folks halfway here, I looked for stats in LT's last college game, the best i could find was he was rendered "irrelevant" and lost as well.  That doesnt mean anything other then i couldnt use that point to corroborate the point you and i are tired of seeing about Chase in his last two games.  I cant say the guy people are comparing him to dominated his last college game and won, because he didnt.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

The thing about trading down isn’t just that you’re giving up on getting Young, it’s that you’re possibly giving him to the Giants. If he’s what people believe he is, you get to deal with him twice a year for the next ten. Not good.

 

i think there's almost no chance that the Lions would pass on Chase Young. One of the biggest deficiencies in their defense is their pass rush. If it wasn't worst in the league it was close. They'll squeal with delight if we somehow passed on him by trading down. I don't think there's any possibility of Chase getting out of the top 3. 

[ClaytoAli]

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

i think there's almost no chance that the Lions would pass on Chase Young. One of the biggest deficiencies in their defense is their pass rush. If it wasn't worst in the league it was close. They'll squeal with delight if we somehow passed on him by trading down. I don't think there's any possibility of Chase getting out of the top 3. 

That is why a three team trade with Miami where the Lions get 5th pick and 26th pick would work. We could get one of Miami’s second rounders and the 3rd pick. Miami would get the 2nd pick overall.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, cakmoney61 said:

 

I think you misread my post.  I am not arguing for CY at all.  I simply gave my preference in the first paragraph and why.  My second paragraph simply states the difficulty of trying to figure out who will be great and who will be a JAG.  I don't envy whoever is/are making that decision, because they will get crushed if they make the wrong choice.  This fan base is desperate for a winner.

 

I appreciate the clarification with honestly I am not sure how else to read "I am willing to trade down as long I can still get Young. As it stands, I'm not willing to lose a player that could help turn the front 4 into the 49ers' front four." other than you want Young. 

 

You may not have meant it this way but the second paragraph reads that only those first two guys have HOF potential where the rest are most likely JAGs. Fair enough on the clarification. 

 

Based on the above - if I understand correctly - you see it as a damned if you do, damned if you don't and from a fan standpoint you are probably right. Sure, either move will bring scrutiny. But the positives far outweigh the negatives for me. If I am RR, I love the position i am in. You either get a huge haul (I am not trading for even - sorry other teams, that's not how those top picks work) or you take the player who is probably the best player coming out of this draft.

 

 

[OVCChairman]

44 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

That is why a three team trade with Miami where the Lions get 5th pick and 26th pick would work. We could get one of Miami’s second rounders and the 3rd pick. Miami would get the 2nd pick overall.

 

 

I dont think its out of the realm that Detroit looks at Tua and feels like they cant pass up.  If Miami catches wind of that and starts sniffing around no. 2, Detroit may say screw it and call us with a package.  

[Brother Redskin]

I'm hoping we get C.Young and he is an awesome force for years to come.  However I remember when we drafted the next LT with Lavar Arrington and he was not really all that.  If we had traded back in that draft and taken Brian Urlacher and had additional picks we would have been better off.  My hopes are high but only time will truly tell.

[ClaytoAli]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I dont think its out of the realm that Detroit looks at Tua and feels like they cant pass up.  If Miami catches wind of that and starts sniffing around no. 2, Detroit may say screw it and call us with a package.  

Detroit is punting till 2021 on a QB.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, ClaytoAli said:

That is why a three team trade with Miami where the Lions get 5th pick and 26th pick would work. We could get one of Miami’s second rounders and the 3rd pick. Miami would get the 2nd pick overall.

 

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility...three team trades have happened before. But I also go back to another point that I made (which isn't necessarily directly germane to what you're saying here, so not necessarily directed at you), which is that I think people may be underestimating how much worry teams will have with Tua's injury and his injury history. To me, that would make Miami giving up a haul to go up to #2 a bit unlikely. 

 

If Tua didn't have that awful injury at the end of the season it would be different. I still think Cincy may very well go Burrow #1, because Burrow really just looked that damn good this season. But then we'd be in a much better spot to be able to figure out some way to do a 3 way deal where we'd get an extra pick or two and still get Chase. 

[cakmoney61]

11 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I appreciate the clarification with honestly I am not sure how else to read "I am willing to trade down as long I can still get Young. As it stands, I'm not willing to lose a player that could help turn the front 4 into the 49ers' front four." other than you want Young. 

 

You may not have meant it this way but the second paragraph reads that only those first two guys have HOF potential where the rest are most likely JAGs. Fair enough on the clarification. 

 

Based on the above - if I understand correctly - you see it as a damned if you do, damned if you don't and from a fan standpoint you are probably right. Sure, either move will bring scrutiny. But the positives far outweigh the negatives for me. If I am RR, I love the position i am in. You either get a huge haul (I am not trading for even - sorry other teams, that's not how those top picks work) or you take the player who is probably the best player coming out of this draft.

 

 

You are making my original post a lot more intense and close-minded than I ever intended it to be.  I am not an expert by any stretch.🙂  I simply stated what I chose and why and that I was surprised so many chose one of the three trade the #2 pick and lose CY options.  It's my opinion--my druthers.  Nothing more nothing less.  

 

Also, I didn't say that Young and Burrow were HOF players and everyone else were JAGs.  How could I possibly know how any of these young men will turn out?  I asked a hypothetical question.  With all due respect, you misunderstood what I wrote.

 

I am prepared to support whatever decision(s) they make.  I just hope it's the right ones, because I honestly don't know what they should do because I don't know the future.  Like you, I also love the position they are in.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said:

Detroit is punting till 2021 on a QB.

 

 

Which is why Tua makes sense... 

[Gibbit]

How many picks can we get if we made a thirty two team trade....don't ****ing tell me we don't have enough phones

[joeken24]

Cincinnati Bengals (2-14)
Washington Redskins (3-13)
Detroit Lions (3-12-1)
New York Giants (4-12)

 

Giants swap with Bengals, pick Chase Young. Bengals take Burrow or Tua 4th pick overall. The  Redskins better keep a close eye on this ****.

[HTTRDynasty]

14 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Giants swap with Bengals, pick Chase Young. 

Redskins trade the 2nd overall pick to the Dolphins, Panthers, or Chargers for a haul. Bengals miss out on Burrow. Their GM is fired and never allowed to work in the NFL again. 
 

That was a fun thought experiment. 

[OVCChairman]

 

Stafford is making $30mil in 2020, then $56 mil over the final 3 years of the deal, so thats 80 mil over the next 4 years  If they release him AFTER 2020 that $56 mil drops to $13 mil.

 

GB just played in the NFC Championship game, Minn has 1 more year to make a run, and Chicago is.. chicago.  Detroit is not in a position to win with stafford, and drafting tua, then spending that $42 mil elsewhere could put them in a good position in 3 years when that division opens up

[Est.1974]

12 hours ago, Stormy said:

 

If the Redskins could come out of a trade still having a top 5-6 pick, and with 3-4 picks in the top 60, I think you’d have to consider it.

I posted something similar. We could have say 4 picks in the top #66 having already added 3 quality starters in free agency. But that is a tough call if Chase Young really is as advertised..