What Offer Would Change Your Mind on Trading Down???

[bakedtater1]

14 hours ago, Birdlives said:

The thing about trading down isn’t just that you’re giving up on getting Young, it’s that you’re possibly giving him to the Giants. If he’s what people believe he is, you get to deal with him twice a year for the next ten. Not good.

I'd be ok with chase going to the giants..Michael Strahan was a thorn in our side for years but fun to watch...no it wasnt fun seeing him sack our qb but I loved the redskins giants rivalry in the 80's(yes I know Strahan wasnt around in the 80's)...ya win some ya lose some..to me that's ok with the giants..its the other two teams I despise.

[Renegade7]

From chart in OP some picks of interest, hoping someone gun checks me to make sure the numbers are right concerning point value of the draft picks that might be involved in a trade down:

 

2  WAS    2600

 

5  MIA    1700

18  MIA    900

26  MIA    700

39  MIA    510

56  MIA    340

 

3  DET    2200    

35  DET    550      

[DazedSkinsfan]

My two cents for the penny its worth is I think we should just stay put and draft Young at #2.  Now if Cincinnati takes him,  then I would love to see us work out a deal and grab a load of picks but I don't see that happening.  If Chase lives up to the hype then he makes your defense instantly better. 

 

Now what I would love to see is us somehow getting a 2nd round pick. If Trent comes back I'm not sure how but as deep as this class is in CB and WR talent it sucks not having a pick in the 2nd.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

From chart in OP some picks of interest, hoping someone gun checks me to make sure the numbers are right concerning point value of the draft picks that might be involved in a trade down:

 

2  WAS    2600

 

5  MIA    1700

18  MIA    900

26  MIA    700

39  MIA    510

56  MIA    340

 

3  DET    2200    

35  DET    550      

 

 

This year i think you cant really use these because Young and Tua are both 1.1 caliber.  The no. 2 pick is more valuable this year than most years.

[Captain James]

This is so tough. If only we could see the future and know how much of an impact Del Rio himself will have on our current defense. If a new coach and scheme already improves the D quite a bit (assuming we already have a lot of talent), then adding that 1 elite player could really put them over the top. However, if changing our coach and scheme reveals to us that maybe our current talent isn't even that amazing, then of course an influx of multiple picks would be my choice.

 

Since we cannot see the future, I think I'm straight up fine with whichever route they go.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

This year i think you cant really use these because Young and Tua are both 1.1 caliber.  The no. 2 pick is more valuable this year than most years.

 

You have to use these as a starting point, this is not the first draft with players "worth more then their pick value".

 

Edit: if anything you are making the case for how we could convince the Dolphins to give up all three 1st instead of two 1st and second to come close to equal value.  If the Dolphins offer us three first round picks for Chase Young, is one potential all-pro worth more then three potential pro bowlers? Theres no way I can say yes if the all-pro isnt a QB, which is what the Dolphins would be trading for.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Captain James said:

This is so tough. If only we could see the future and know how much of an impact Del Rio himself will have on our current defense. If a new coach and scheme already improves the D quite a bit (assuming we already have a lot of talent), then adding that 1 elite player could really put them over the top. However, if changing our coach and scheme reveals to us that maybe our current talent isn't even that amazing, then of course an influx of multiple picks would be my choice.

 

Since we cannot see the future, I think I'm straight up fine with whichever route they go.

 

This is a solid point and glad you brought it up.  We are hoping the two 1st round defensive linemen we already have are jus underachieving.  We really dont know how good this defense could be with the line jus playing to its potential with Sweat and Kerrigan finally allowed to focus on pressure instead of coverage. 

 

What we do know is a lot went wrong last year and we didnt have the talent to make up for it, not even close.  Jus as would be suspected of a 3-13 team, there holes up and down the roster that even a better coaching staff can do so much to hide.  One of my biggest fears is we try to focus in getting pressure with our dline but our secondary is still so bad people jus quick slant us to death, or linebackers so bad we get screened to death as well.

[Renegade7]

23 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I hear ya, but I only reported what I read last night that the Lions may be interested in shopping Stafford....maybe they're posturing trying to entice a trade up for Tua from someone? 

 

Had to think about this, it really is not in their interest to admit to this in anyway shape or form.  One, it'll freak out Miami who has more resources then they can match.  Two it would kill Staffords trade value, what is really going on with his back that the Lions are trying to trade up type questions start to go around, if they havent already.  Lions are in a lose-lose situation, they have to deny and have conversations in person in dark alleys and **** to have a prayer of being able to trade up.

[OVCChairman]

58 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You have to use these as a starting point, this is not the first draft with players "worth more then their pick value".

 

Edit: if anything you are making the case for how we could convince the Dolphins to give up all three 1st instead of two 1st and second to come close to equal value.  If the Dolphins offer us three first round picks for Chase Young, is one potential all-pro worth more then three potential pro bowlers? Theres no way I can say yes if the all-pro isnt a QB, which is what the Dolphins would be trading for.

 

 

Ive been saying for 3 weeks that were in a valuable position and i would be very happy getting 3 first round picks including no. 5.

 

I know that table is there and its a bit of a guideline, but there are so many variables that... youre right.. it can only really be a starting point.  

 

[Renegade7]

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility...three team trades have happened before. But I also go back to another point that I made (which isn't necessarily directly germane to what you're saying here, so not necessarily directed at you), which is that I think people may be underestimating how much worry teams will have with Tua's injury and his injury history. To me, that would make Miami giving up a haul to go up to #2 a bit unlikely. 

 

If Tua didn't have that awful injury at the end of the season it would be different. I still think Cincy may very well go Burrow #1, because Burrow really just looked that damn good this season. But then we'd be in a much better spot to be able to figure out some way to do a 3 way deal where we'd get an extra pick or two and still get Chase. 

 

Valid point on Tua injury history, and I was going to ask how often NFL three team trades even happen.

 

Then I have to ask where Hibbert fits into this? From what I'm reading he went off in the Senior Bowl, and NFL teams have a bad habit of dissassotiating pick value from player value when it involves a QB.  Teams reach for QBs all the time in desperation.

 

Its entirely possible if Hibbert vaults due to the combine that a conversation about Miami trading up with us happens, then we get enough resources from them being desperate that we can overpay a little to then swap with Detroit to get back ahead of the Giants to still draft Young.  We'd need Miami's three first rounders to have the ammo, but dont see us having to overpay because Detroit knows neither us or the Giants will take QB.

 

We could take the #5 and #18 we get from Miami and package with our third for Detroits #3 and their second rounder.  That's one impossible scenario we could trade down and still get Chase Young, but that's a lot of work to ask if it's worth it for us to go through all that to give up our third to get a second rounder instead.  Having said that, it's a high enough second that wed then have three picks in the top 35 and Chase Young. I'd say it's worth a shot to try and get it all done at the same time.

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Redskins get:

Patrick Mahomes
2020 1st, 2nd, 5th

2021 1st

2022 1st

 

Chiefs get:

2020 1st, 6th and Andy Reid gets to writhe his pasty white naked flab all over Dan Snyder’s mamma.

[Renegade7]

[kingdaddy]

Miami would have to offer 3 firsts and one of their 2nd round picks and I would do it. 4 upgrade guys to me is worth more than one potential superstar for many reasons including injuries, off the field stuff, other intangibles.....And, we could trade back with one or even two of Miami's picks and accumulate even more picks. What if we landed a pass rusher, safety, LB and WR with those 4 picks? Maybe in trade backs we grab a TE or offensive lineman.

Our scouting dept. will have to determine how good this draft really is.

Young looks like he'll be great, maybe a hall of famer, but 4 high picks could be too much to pass up if they're all projected to be potential pro bowl type players.

[Commander Adama]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:24 PM, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

With Detroit, an amicable trade if we still get Young.

 

This would be fantastic

[RWJ]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:24 PM, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

With Detroit, an amicable trade if we still get Young.

 

The only trade that makes any sense, 74.   If the Lions want to move on from Stafford, then a written agreement would have to be drawn up between the Skins and Lions before the trade went down they move up to #2 overall nab the kid from Alabama and we follow behind at #3 overall and get Young along with their 2nd round pick.  

[bakedtater1]

Haven't we fans always said trade down acquire more picks build through the draft?...I'm just trying to prepare my self for the scenario... what I truly believe will happen is the skins will stay put and take chase young...but anything can happen...I'd be ecstatic to see a trade with miami where we get there 1,5 1,18 a 2nd rounder and a 2nd rounder for next year...pick bpa at 5 and 18 and the best tight end available in the 2nd round...I'm not all bright and all with the tangebiles and such of the draft sooo if we would acquire more by making that trade, please feel me in.

[lavar1156]

It's starting to seem like we could be offered a haul for the #2 pick. And unless we want Tua I'm not sure how we will be able to turn it down.

[dyst]

There are no sure bets but you don’t trade for the sake of trading just to get more picks. Chase may suck but got to take that risk.

[lavar1156]

38 minutes ago, dyst said:

There are no sure bets but you don’t trade for the sake of trading just to get more picks. Chase may suck but got to take that risk.

 

There are offers that would be provide greater value than just Chase Young. 

 

[dyst]

3 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

 

There are offers that would be provide greater value than just Chase Young. 

 

Yes but only if they live up to their potential. We can say the same about Chase I guess.
 

As an example, I’d rather have Michael Jordan then Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter and Paul Pierce. 

 

But id trading Jordan means I get Kobe, Lebron and Durrant, then yes might have to make that trade.

[skinny21]

I know this doesn’t mean much, but just to throw it out there...

 

Looking back over the past 20 years, the closes comps to picks 5, 18, and 26 by the ‘Skins would be:

 

5.  Sean Taylor and Brandon Scherff

17.  Johnathon Allen

and

26.  Montez Sweat

 

Next closest changes things a bit (to be fair)

 

4.  Trent Williams

6.  Laron Landry - 6th)
16.  Kerrigan

25.  Jason Campbell

[abdcskins]

Dolphins can probably get Tua at #5 anyway.  I doubt they trade up.  Unless the Lions are ready to move on from Stafford, which they aren't.  Giants have Daniel Jones.

 

In this hypothetical situation, I'd be okay with three first rounders.

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, dyst said:

Yes but only if they live up to their potential. We can say the same about Chase I guess.
 

As an example, I’d rather have Michael Jordan then Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter and Paul Pierce. 

 

But id trading Jordan means I get Kobe, Lebron and Durrant, then yes might have to make that trade.

 

Again, this isnt basketball.  I get your analogy, but NFL isnt as star driven as NBA is.  That's because NFL teams typically have more then twice as many players on the court/field as NBA players at any given moment.  Besides, all the players you mentioned (save maybe McGrady) are going to HOF.  Jordan is the best player in basketball history, what has Chase done to deserve that analogy.  Great player likely, but potentially best ever? Nope.

[dyst]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Again, this isnt basketball.  I get your analogy, but NFL isnt as star driven as NBA is.  That's because NFL teams typically have more then twice as many players on the court/field as NBA players at any given moment.  Besides, all the players you mentioned (save maybe McGrady) are going to HOF.  Jordan is the best player in basketball history, what has Chase done to deserve that analogy.  Great player likely, but potentially best ever? Nope.

It will be hindsight when it is all settled. We have no idea what Chase will become, nor do we have any idea what kind of players trading back will net us either. It didn’t work for the Rams, or Browns more recently and would have been better if they just took best player available IMO (though those teams sucked as an organization at that time, which has a lot to do with it, then again, so do we).

 

If we trade back and net Okudah, Simmons and a Tackle who all turn out to be the equivalent of Dion Sanders, Lawrence Taylor and Johnathan Ogden then yes would have been a mistake drafting Chase Young, even if Chase Young ends up being Reggie White. But if we end up with Johnathan Allen, Deron Payne and Brandon Scheriff quality players....I’d be annoyed that we passed up on Reggie White and even worse if the players we draft are more like Doctson, Cravens and Fuller type of guys.

More picks usually means more chances to draft quality players so I get the point.

[cakmoney61]

33 minutes ago, dyst said:

It will be hindsight when it is all settled. We have no idea what Chase will become, nor do we have any idea what kind of players trading back will net us either. It didn’t work for the Rams, or Browns more recently and would have been better if they just took best player available IMO (though those teams sucked as an organization at that time, which has a lot to do with it, then again, so do we).

 

If we trade back and net Okudah, Simmons and a Tackle who all turn out to be the equivalent of Dion Sanders, Lawrence Taylor and Johnathan Ogden then yes would have been a mistake drafting Chase Young, even if Chase Young ends up being Reggie White. But if we end up with Johnathan Allen, Deron Payne and Brandon Scheriff quality players....I’d be annoyed that we passed up on Reggie White and even worse if the players we draft are more like Doctson, Cravens and Fuller type of guys.

More picks usually means more chances to draft quality players so I get the point.

 

How talented these young men may or may not be at the NFL level is not the only concern.  How great they really want to be is also an issue.  You want people with Kobe Bryant's (may he rest in peace) insatiable drive to be great, which is one of the reasons why they do interviews and research these players work habits and the like. 

 

How many HOF level talented players didn't even have an average career in their chosen profession?  How many players over the years stopped developing and learning as soon as they got their first big contract?

 

So it's not just talent that you have to try to predict in the future.  It's character (see Antonio Brown) and their desire to be great (see Tom Brady).  I don't envy those who have to figure all of this out.