What Offer Would Change Your Mind on Trading Down???

[CommanderInTheRye]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Why would Detroit swap with us if we are giving no indication we need a QB?  

 

We are giving every indication that we are willing to consider trading with another team which would mean that Tua wouldn't be there for them at the third pick. 

 

 

Only reason I can think of is to make sure no one swaps with us, but even moving up one spot wont be cheap because how high up we both are.  

 

Exactly, if the rumors that they have been shopping Stafford are true the last thing they want is to trade him and have no qb option worth taking that early. Up until this week they probably assumed, as have most of us, that the first two picks were Burrow and Young leaving Tua their for the taking. Now everything’s up in the air.

 

Should be exciting to see how it all plays out.

 

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

No, you stay and take Chase.

[FrFan]

I would be fine with at least an RG3 trade package. Imagine our scouting staff repeating last year success with all these picks !

[KDawg]

Only way I trade down is if Young goes 1. If he goes one, it’s deciding if Tua/Burrow is worth more than multiple picks. And for this team, right now, I’d take the picks.

[ClaytoAli]

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

strong rumors out of Detroit that Stafford will be traded.....that means the Lions will be in the market for a QB....Tua? 

This would be the optimal situation for us.....and yes, I would consider trading out of 2 given the right offer.

not true!

At the Senior Bowl, Lions GM Bob Quinn told Alex Marvez and Gil Brandt on SiriusXM NFL radio, he plans to ride Stafford once more and isn't worried about the back injury lingering into 2020. 

 

"I feel great about Matthew," Quinn said. "He's going to come back strong when we're ready to go for next year." 

Stafford is under contract in Detroit for the next three seasons with a salary cap figure of $21.3 million in 2020, $33 million in 2021, and $26 million in 2021. 
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098214/article/lions-gm-comfortable-with-matthew-stafford-returning

[cakmoney61]

So far 68 people have voted with 48 people willing to trade out of the #2 spot and losing Chase Young.  I'm a little surprised by that.  I am willing to trade down as long as I can still get Young.  As it stands, I'm not willing to lose a player that could help turn the front 4 into the 49ers' front four.

 

I get it.  More bites at the apple with high draft choices increase the chances of hitting on these picks.  An infusion of great young talent in multiple areas can quickly transform a team into a playoff contender for years.  I'm not sure how the Redskins could pass on Burrow if he falls to them.  What if they make a trade losing out on a future hall of famer in Young or Burrow and end up drafting a bunch of JAGs?  The draft is such a crap shoot!!!!!😱

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, cakmoney61 said:

So far 68 people have voted with 48 people willing to trade out of the #2 spot and losing Chase Young.  I'm a little surprised by that.  I am willing to trade down as long as I can still get Young.  As it stands, I'm not willing to lose a player that could help turn the front 4 into the 49ers' front four.

 

I get it.  More bites at the apple with high draft choices increase the chances of hitting on these picks.  An infusion of great young talent in multiple areas can quickly transform a team into a playoff contender for years.  I'm not sure how the Redskins could pass on Burrow if he falls to them.  What if they make a trade losing out on a future hall of famer in Young or Burrow and end up drafting a bunch of JAGs?  The draft is such a crap shoot!!!!!😱

 

Well, it all comes down to the FO and coaches having a solid plan in place before the phone rings. You can't just trade Young for picks and then wonder what the hell to use 'em on, you'd need to know specifically which players you'd target with them and do the homework to be as absolutely sure as possible that they are not gonna be jags.

 

In years past I would have just said draft Young, don't even pick up the phone, in fact pull the phone cord out of the wall, because I had little faith in how that draft capital might be spent. Now it seems like we not only have a talented, adept group doing the scouting/drafting, we have added the subtraction of Allen, and thru him other interfering influences. 

 

No matter what, whichever way they do decide to go I am thinkin' I am going to be ok with their choice. It's hard for me to believe that I have rediscovered some hope for this team in such a short time, but there it is. I'm riding that faith until I hit the pavement.

[ggarriso]

It really depends how much you trust this structure for scouting and college evaluation.  Assuming Burrow goes to CIN (if he doesnt you take him without any hesitation) a RG3 type trade of multiple firsts (and second(s)) over a pass rusher is a no brainer from a pure statistical value standpoint.  That said, you have to have a talent evaluation team in place who can actually land on some or most of those picks.  If your eval is trash then the team should probably just make the safe lower value move (in this hypothetical scenario) and take Young

[evmiii]

I think the only way this is even feasible is if the Bengals take Chase Young first.  In this case Chase is NOT available and we then we start the Burrow lottery.  Best offer wins.  Teams can't trust Detroit and know they have to get in front of Miami.  If Chase is on the board at #2 I can't foresee an offer that would be worthy of not drafting him.

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, ClaytoAli said:

not true!

At the Senior Bowl, Lions GM Bob Quinn told Alex Marvez and Gil Brandt on SiriusXM NFL radio, he plans to ride Stafford once more and isn't worried about the back injury lingering into 2020. 

 

"I feel great about Matthew," Quinn said. "He's going to come back strong when we're ready to go for next year." 

Stafford is under contract in Detroit for the next three seasons with a salary cap figure of $21.3 million in 2020, $33 million in 2021, and $26 million in 2021. 
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098214/article/lions-gm-comfortable-with-matthew-stafford-returning

I hear ya, but I only reported what I read last night that the Lions may be interested in shopping Stafford....maybe they're posturing trying to entice a trade up for Tua from someone? 

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I hear ya, but I only reported what I read last night that the Lions may be interested in shopping Stafford....maybe they're posturing trying to entice a trade up for Tua from someone? 

 

This cannot be anything but a smoke screen. They would have $32M in dead Cap due to his signing bonus on his recent contract. Can;t get away from that. Lions are more stuck with Stafford than we are with Alex Smith - we at least have a small chance to unload his contract. 

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This cannot be anything but a smoke screen. They would have $32M in dead Cap due to his signing bonus on his recent contract. Can;t get away from that. Lions are more stuck with Stafford than we are with Alex Smith - we at least have a small chance to unload his contract. 

I think there could be interested teams that would entertain trading for Stafford...Tampa, Chargers, New England? If Detroit wants out of that contract he may even come cheap as far as what a team would have to give up.

[goskins10]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

I think there could be interested teams that would entertain trading for Stafford...Tampa, Chargers, New England? If Detroit wants out of that contract he may even come cheap as far as what a team would have to give up.

 

I think you may have missed my point - it's not the contract which is pretty light. The signing bonus has already been paid so it doesn't matter what they give them. They will have $32M hit their CAP as dead CAP no matter what they do. Maybe they can get someone to take part of that CAP - but I just really don't see anyone wanting an injured average QB for that much money. 

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think you may have missed my point - it's not the contract which is pretty light. The signing bonus has already been paid so it doesn't matter what they give them. They will have $32M hit their CAP as dead CAP no matter what they do. Maybe they can get someone to take part of that CAP - but I just really don't see anyone wanting an injured average QB for that much money. 

I agree....I will say this though, I think when teams get up into the top 5 in the draft the natural thought is to look hard at the available QB's. Stafford has been in Detroit for a long time now, 11 years, and the Lions have been mostly bad. I've heard it many times from GM's that when you draft that high, you take the QB because of their longevity and the fact that teams don't often get shots to draft franchise caliber QB's. Here's a question, how bad would his cap hit really be when you have Tua on a rookie contract? Suck up the cap hit for a year and groom Tua in 2020 with an eye towards cap freedom down the road. Just a thought. Patricia has to be feeling some heat in Detroit, maybe he'd rather go with someone else than what he knows in Stafford? 

As you know, teams do crazy things, especially historically bad teams. Hell, the Browns drafted Johnny Manziel because a homeless guy told their owner to draft him. Who knows how some of these teams think? I see your point though. 

[Est.1974]

Young going number #1 would at least take the ‘fear’ out of moving back and passing over on that so called generational talent. 
 

It a massive call we’ve got me make though if an offer for the #2 pick is made and Young is sat there.

 

We have the potential to net 3 or 4 significant acquisitions/upgrades in free agency while also having say 4 picks in the top 66 of the draft.....

[goskins10]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

I agree....I will say this though, I think when teams get up into the top 5 in the draft the natural thought is to look hard at the available QB's. Stafford has been in Detroit for a long time now, 11 years, and the Lions have been mostly bad. I've heard it many times from GM's that when you draft that high, you take the QB because of their longevity and the fact that teams don't often get shots to draft franchise caliber QB's. Here's a question, how bad would his cap hit really be when you have Tua on a rookie contract? Suck up the cap hit for a year and groom Tua in 2020 with an eye towards cap freedom down the road. Just a thought. Patricia has to be feeling some heat in Detroit, maybe he'd rather go with someone else than what he knows in Stafford? 

As you know, teams do crazy things, especially historically bad teams. Hell, the Browns drafted Johnny Manziel because a homeless guy told their owner to draft him. Who knows how some of these teams think? I see your point though. 

 

I think this is two different conversations. I totally agree with the idea they might take Tua at 5 - and honestly they probably should unless they like Herbert better. I just don't think they will get a trade offer for Stafford. 

 

It would be smart for them to take his replacement now. That would be an ideal situation for Tua also. He could sit behind Stafford at least one year maybe two. So I think them trying to shop Stafford is smoke but the idea they might take Tua is real. 

 

The problem is I have to believe Patricia is on the hot seat going into next year. So using that #5 pick for a QB as a future investment is probably not on his radar. 

 

Having said all that, I also agree with you that teams do crazy things when the draft comes. This really could be an exciting draft on draft day. Lot's of opportunities for trades. 

[NoVaSkins21]

Unless someone is willing to mortgage their future like New Orleans did in '99 with Ricky Williams trade, there's no way to move out of #2.  Even then, there's the risk of a team like the Vagiants taking Young at #4.  There's no way I want to see Young in the division for any other teams but the Skins

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

So far 68 people have voted with 48 people willing to trade out of the #2 spot and losing Chase Young.  I'm a little surprised by that.  I am willing to trade down as long as I can still get Young.  As it stands, I'm not willing to lose a player that could help turn the front 4 into the 49ers' front four.

 

I get it.  More bites at the apple with high draft choices increase the chances of hitting on these picks.  An infusion of great young talent in multiple areas can quickly transform a team into a playoff contender for years.  I'm not sure how the Redskins could pass on Burrow if he falls to them.  What if they make a trade losing out on a future hall of famer in Young or Burrow and end up drafting a bunch of JAGs?  The draft is such a crap shoot!!!!!😱

 

Using the "draft is such a crap shoot" may be the worst argument for NOT trading down. That it's a crap shoot is exactly why you trade down. I know there are many that are ready to anoint CY the next LT and put him in the HOF as an absolute can't miss talent - which is exactly what you are implying above. I disagree strongly with your characterization that anyone past CY will be "JAG".  If we drop say 3 to 5 spots we could still easily get an elite player, especially as QBs rise on the board as they always do. I would not be surprised if Herbert went top 10 or 15, or maybe Eason. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like CY too. His potential is great. But his chances of busting out are still close to 50% just like everyone else. So if the goal is take the least risk of getting players that will contribute then you likely trade down. 

 

The best argument I have seen for NOT trading down is CY has the best chance to be an elite player something we are truly lacking. That makes sense. 

 

In the end, unless they really do something stupid, we should like whatever they do. 

 

 

Edit: Let me add - the other good reason is to double down on the Dline. We have a good Dline already with some decent depth. But most teams that have great Dlines, continue to double down and use resources to make sure they stay dominant. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

11 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Sounds like you didn’t watch those last two games

No reason to lie and this is what I saw. Against Wisc, 4 tackles and ZERO SACKS. Against Clemson, 1 tackle and ZERO SACKS. That is against college tackles. Think he will do better against the Cowboys, lol. Does this look like the player you want with the second pick in the draft? That translates to, you have your pick of every college player in the country except 1 QB and you pass on them and take a guy with 5 tackles and zero sacks in his last 2 games when he should be giving his best to showcase himself.

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

No reason to lie and this is what I saw. Against Wisc, 4 tackles and ZERO SACKS. Against Clemson, 1 tackle and ZERO SACKS. That is against college tackles. Think he will do better against the Cowboys, lol. Does this look like the player you want with the second pick in the draft? That translates to, you have your pick of every college player in the country except 1 QB and you pass on them and take a guy with 5 tackles and zero sacks in his last 2 games when he should be giving his best to showcase himself.

 

This has been addressed many times in other threads, and has been addressed by people outside of ES as well (sports analysts, etc). If you think Chase having zero sacks against Clemson means he did nothing then you either didn't watch the game or you don't understand football. Chase had a massive impact against Clemson. It's been broken down and explained. Not only did Clemson basically alter their entire offensive scheme to account for him, but they were also doubling him all over the place. And Chase still had something like 8 QB pressures IIRC and hit Lawrence multiple times. 

 

This argument is bad and old so I probably shouldn't have even addressed it, but it just irks me so much.

[ClaytoAli]

I could see us do a three team deal with Miami and Detroit. We would still get CY and a second round pick.

 

Miami (5 and 26 or 39)  = Skins (2)

Detroit (3)  = Skins (5) & Miami (18)

 

Skins (2) = Detroit (3) & Miami (26 or 39)

[mistertim]

BTW I voted "Only if we still get Chase Young". If Miami called and said "I'll give you my 3 1sts this year, my 2nd and 3rd this year, and my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd next year" I'd certainly listen. But to me that's just such a far fetched trade for a team to offer to that I didn't really consider it as realistic. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

36 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This has been addressed many times in other threads, and has been addressed by people outside of ES as well (sports analysts, etc). If you think Chase having zero sacks against Clemson means he did nothing then you either didn't watch the game or you don't understand football. Chase had a massive impact against Clemson. It's been broken down and explained. Not only did Clemson basically alter their entire offensive scheme to account for him, but they were also doubling him all over the place. And Chase still had something like 8 QB pressures IIRC and hit Lawrence multiple times. 

 

This argument is bad and old so I probably shouldn't have even addressed it, but it just irks me so much.

You are right of course. I lied about watching the last 2 games he played and I know nothing about football.

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

No reason to lie and this is what I saw. Against Wisc, 4 tackles and ZERO SACKS. Against Clemson, 1 tackle and ZERO SACKS. That is against college tackles. Think he will do better against the Cowboys, lol. Does this look like the player you want with the second pick in the draft? That translates to, you have your pick of every college player in the country except 1 QB and you pass on them and take a guy with 5 tackles and zero sacks in his last 2 games when he should be giving his best to showcase himself.

The Cowboys are gonna double or triple him on nearly every down? Maybe stop looking at college football reference and start watching film analysis.

 

3 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

You are right of course. I lied about watching the last 2 games he played and I know nothing about football.

Exactly

[skinfan2k]

So my reason for not wanting to get Chase is we are put too many resources towards the offensive line.  I want Isiah Simmons who could anchor our LB for the next decade.