Hypothetical- Cincy throws a curveball and take Chase. Would you take Joe Burrow?

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd usually be 100% with you. OL is my top priority every single season. But the OL class doesn't intrigue me as much this season. And I think next year may be decent of OL (though, obviously, that remains to be seen.

 

I see a quarterback, an edge, an OLB and a corner who are monsters at the top of this draft.

 

I think the OLB is a generational talent. The DE is on par with the other "generational" talents. The quarterback looks like he'll be a good player and the corner looks like he'd be a top 16 corner in the league in the very near future.

 

The tackles look... okay? In comparison...

 

The picks/fat boys don’t have to necessarily be in this years draft.

 

Also, DE falls under the umbrella of “fat boys”.

[KDawg]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

 

The picks/fat boys don’t have to necessarily be in this years draft.

 

Also, DE falls under the umbrella of “fat boys”.

 

Your vision of DEs is dated, brother

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

 

Do you have a current NFL comp in mind? Is he Luck? Manning? Favre? Marino? 

 

Eh.

 

Luck? Maybe? He doesn't have the history behind him. So not a great comp. Not Manning, he's not as savvy. Not Favre. Not a gunslinger. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the comp thing, because players are so different. And if I named a guy that didn't pan out or whatever people would get the wrong idea.

[Riggo-toni]

Given how many holes we have on the roster, it would be ideal if we were able to trade down, get a franchise LT and a high quality DB. Going rate for the #2 pick seems to be 2 firsts and a third.

 

If there are no takers, then yes. Rookie contracts are cheap - cheaper than a high quality backup. Most likely one of the two QBs is going to be a bust, and the franchise goes nowhere without a franchise QB.

[checmate21]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

To be upfront, I am NOT sold on Haskins. At all. I like his improvements. After the end of the season I felt like he had a shot. About three weeks prior I was ready to throw in the towel with how bad he was. 6 excellent quarters do not completely change my feelings on him. But I am absolutely okay with them sticking with Haskins if they feel he has the goods. Their team. Their groceries.

 

I agree on your Turner point. His offensive style helps Haskins. 

 

But he has some pro style elements, too, which fit a guy like Burrow. And Burrow can hit the throws Haskins can.

 

 

 

 

So answer me this..how relief appearances with a coach that didn't like you from the start and some starts that was not great by a long shot overrule them 6 excellent quarters as you put it with somebody that believed in him?

 

I feel Ron and Turner like Haskins, just go challenge him a bit so he'll continue to work and not think the job is his, not a problem with that at all 

[Tsailand]

37 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

Trade Haskins for a low-first or high-second to someone, if at all possible

 

Who?  31 other teams, 31 other GMs.  Who trades even a 3rd round pick for him at this point?

[ntotoro]

Just now, Tsailand said:

 

Who?  31 other teams, 31 other GMs.  Who trades even a 3rd round pick for him at this point?

 

I don't know. Thankfully that's not my job... 😂

 

Pats could be looking for a QB, not that I think the Hoodie would take a chance on Haskins.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Your vision of DEs is dated, brother

 

Eh.

 

Luck? Maybe? He doesn't have the history behind him. So not a great comp. Not Manning, he's not as savvy. Not Favre. Not a gunslinger. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the comp thing, because players are so different. And if I named a guy that didn't pan out or whatever people would get the wrong idea.

 

I hear you...I was just curious. So he's got the physical tools but isn't quite as savvy/cerebral as someone like Manning. 

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, checmate21 said:

 

 

So answer me this..how relief appearances with a coach that didn't like you from the start and some starts that was not great by a long shot overrule them 6 excellent quarters as you put it with somebody that believed in him?

 

I feel Ron and Turner like Haskins, just go challenge him a bit so he'll continue to work and not think the job is his, not a problem with that at all 

 

The problem was that all the bad in those relief appearances matched the negative that we (I say we but smart people) already knew he had from scouting. Everything they thought would be a problem for him was. Thats bad.

 

But at the same time, the inverse (reverse? opposite? whatever) happened. All of the good things began to show up in the end, too. 

 

 

So you cant really be sold on him. Too small a sample. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I wouldn’t take Burrow. I’d take the haul of picks and fill the roster. I think Haskins can get the job done.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, checmate21 said:

 

 

So answer me this..how relief appearances with a coach that didn't like you from the start and some starts that was not great by a long shot overrule them 6 excellent quarters as you put it with somebody that believed in him?

 

I feel Ron and Turner like Haskins, just go challenge him a bit so he'll continue to work and not think the job is his, not a problem with that at all 

 

if you put all of your stock in statistics, they don't do anything.

 

If you put some stock in watching a quarterback prospect mechanically, and even if you only account for the Callahan/KOC starts, he wasn't overwhelming in any positive sense. Sloppy arm angles, spotty footwork, jumping throws.

 

All of which did improve. But in six quarters we can't know if it was circumstantial or permanence. He didn't always make every throw sloppy in the early going. 

 

There's also a SIGNIFICANT concern on his maturity and leadership. And that's the biggest factor for me in my assessment in Haskins. If that is better, I think he's got a good shot. He has the physical tools. If he matures mentally I would be willing to put stock on the fact his physical skills will follow.

 

That is the rub. Right there. For me.

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Who?  31 other teams, 31 other GMs.  Who trades even a 3rd round pick for him at this point?

 

The tape on him is not nearly that negative man. And desperate teams come calling every year. You can get a second for him today if you wanted. 

[London Kev]

In that scenario I would try to trade down a little way and gain some extra picks.  If we couldn't get a really good deal, then take Burrows and reassess the situation in TC. We could always trade Burrows/Haskins after deciding on which one we want to keep.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Let’s pretend they decide to go for Chase Young. Highly unlikely but still.  Would you take Joe Burrow?

Nope. 

 

I'm trading the pick for a haul....and if I can't I'm selecting Okudah/Jeudy.

[clskinsfan]

36 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

No.

 

He's a one year guy, yes. But watch his mechanics. His reads. His throw chart. They are very different than Haskins. Burrow plays a pro style. He also played more than one year.

 

Haskins played one year in a YAC offense. 

 

For the record:

 

2018: 219/379, 2894 yards, 16 TD, 5 INT

2019: 371/478, 5208 yards, 55 TD, 6 INT

 

So he's not a one year guy. Last season wasn't great. And not top of the draft worthy. But it wasn't a bad year.

 

And he's different than the Timmy Chang's of the world when you watch the style of offense he plays in.

 

I'm not sure he's an all-time great player kind of candidate. But he's far different as a prospect than Haskins.

 

Haskins has a far better arm than Burrow. But I agree with you that Burrow isnt a one year guy. And Burrow's athleticism is way better than Haskins. They are two very different QB's.

[rumplestilskin]

59 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Thanks for the breakdown. I don't pay much attention to college, outside of just watching over my shoulder on Saturdays. It's interesting to hear about the difference in fundamentals and mechanics. 

 

Do you have a current NFL comp in mind? Is he Luck? Manning? Favre? Marino? 

Another thing about Burrow is he is far more mobile than Haskins which IMO is a must. However,  Dwayne did prove he is better than once thought, he is only average at that. Then there is the maturity question about Haskins. Both are things to consider as Burrow is known for his maturity. One thing for sure they need to do is even if they don't plan on Joe, they should covet him publicly. That would do two things: light a fire under DH butt and make our trade down bounty greater. It's Ron's team now and I am sure he already knows if Haskins is part of the plan or not. If he isn't this scenario would be a dream come true for a new coach.

[ntotoro]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

 

Haskins has a far better arm than Burrow. But I agree with you that Burrow isnt a one year guy. And Burrow's athleticism is way better than Haskins. They are two very different QB's.

 

Jeff George also had a great arm.

[Tsailand]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You can get a second for him today if you wanted. 

 

Which current NFL team would really give a second for him?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Haskins has a far better arm than Burrow. But I agree with you that Burrow isnt a one year guy. And Burrow's athleticism is way better than Haskins. They are two very different QB's.

 

It's easiest to demonstrate when I use an arbitrary number system... so.. I'm going to use one... 

 

Arm Power:

Haskins: 96

Burrow: 90

 

Accuracy (short/intermediate):

Haskins: 80

Burrow: 87

 

Mobility:

Haskins: 65

Burrow: 80

 

Accuracy (deep):

Haskins: 85

Burrow: 85

 

Mechanics:

Haskins: 70

Burrow: 90

 

Pro Style Experience:

Haskins: 45

Burrow: 88

 

Maturity:

Haskins: 55

Burrow: 85

[checmate21]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

So you cant really be sold on him. Too small a sample. 

 

 

Like you said the reverse happen...BUT the good happen towards the end of the year, so that what makes me keep going that he's can be good, now if it was the other way around, I may feel what y'all saying on Burrow.

 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

if you put all of your stock in statistics, they don't do anything.

 

If you put some stock in watching a quarterback prospect mechanically, and even if you only account for the Callahan/KOC starts, he wasn't overwhelming in any positive sense. Sloppy arm angles, spotty footwork, jumping throws.

 

All of which did improve. But in six quarters we can't know if it was circumstantial or permanence. He didn't always make every throw sloppy in the early going. 

 

There's also a SIGNIFICANT concern on his maturity and leadership. And that's the biggest factor for me in my assessment in Haskins. If that is better, I think he's got a good shot. He has the physical tools. If he matures mentally I would be willing to put stock on the fact his physical skills will follow.

 

That is the rub. Right there. For me.

them qualities you just named off..I live in KC, you just describe Maholmes witht he spotty footwork,sloppy arm angles and jump throws, now I'm i'm not comparing him to Maholmes, by a long shot, but that's what he does.

 

maturity will come with age. We just have to wait and see how he progress with the new crew. 

[KDawg]

Just now, checmate21 said:

 

 

them qualities you just named off..I live in KC, you just describe Maholmes witht he spotty footwork,sloppy arm angles and jump throws, now I'm i'm not comparing him to Maholmes, by a long shot, but that's what he does.

 

maturity will come with age. We just have to wait and see how he progress with the new crew. 

 

Not quite Mahomes. Mahomes changes arm angles based on need. Haskins arm angles are based on habits.

 

Being able to play unconventionally is different than unconventionalism being ingrained in your physical skills. Watch Mahomes on a standard drop back and you see he's much more mechanically sound than that. He's just... a different breed.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Jeff George also had a great arm.

I dont really get your point. Jeff George had some great seasons as a starting QB. His problem was he is a head case. We have seen nothing from Haskins to believe that is the case with him. 

[ntotoro]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

I dont really get your point. Jeff George had some great seasons as a starting QB. His problem was he is a head case. We have seen nothing from Haskins to believe that is the case with him. 

 

Haskins has displayed more than a bit immaturity and signs of his give-a-**** being occasionally busted. They're similar in that regard.

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Which current NFL team would really give a second for him?

 

So if ima be 100% honest I would say any QB needy team right now would probably take a flyer on the guy if they cant pick up someone better in the draft. Colts, Bengals, Lions, maybe Browns, MAYBE the Vikes.....you get my point. Philthy could be playoff ready next season and Wentz goes down for the season again. I bet you could get them to buy. Lots of options. 

 

The truth is I havent looked so into other teams situations that I cant tell you who he really makes sense for and who he doesnt. And unless you have, your argument must be that hes just SO BAD that no one would want him. And my argument is simply that, that is false and under the right circumstances....a team that needs an arm and thinks they could be ready to compete, would be open to a trade for a second for a young player with hella talent. 

 

If you really wanna dive deep into why you think Haskins sucks just at me in his thread this doesnt need to be another one. Ill come argue with you if thats really want you want. But if you just wanna say hes bad over and over im not interested. 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's easiest to demonstrate when I use an arbitrary number system... so.. I'm going to use one... 

 

Arm Power:

Haskins: 96

Burrow: 90

Sorry man, but this is just not true. There’s a reason Urban Meyer told Burrow he “threw like a girl”. This dude’s arm strength is in the low 70’s. 
 

He’s a great prospect though. His play style reminds me of Romo at his peak. Still, there’s no way I waste a pick on him when we have a promising young QB already who has all the raw talent in the world; just needs a good QB coach to develop his mechanics and footwork, which it looks like we’ll have. Apparently Rattay wasn’t all that highly thought of within the building last year, and Gruden all but ignored Haskins. I want to see what he can do with a staff that’s dedicated to molding the raw clay we were lucky enough to have fall in our laps last year. 

[Smurf3]

I would be willing to bet that Rivera considers Haskins to be an insurance policy in that part of his "hiring" was probably an agreement to stick with Haskins for at least the 2020 season. So if that doesn't work out Rivera can say that he simply had to play the hand he was dealt. Then they can go QB hunting for 2021 and have another year of grace. Great deal for Rivera, bad deal for the Redskins and Redskins' fans. What else is new? Maybe they could trade Haskins for Sonny Jurgenson. Only way out that I can see. Same ol' same ol". Rivera gone in 2 years.