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BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic

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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, tshile said:

Well, I believe ivermectin would be a potential treatment for covid whereas the vaccine is a preventive measure

 

I agree about the people. 
 

just thought it was interesting it could actually work, and no one is discussing that aspect at all. 

 

Don't take this personally, cause I don't mean it in a aggressive or passive aggressive way; but I think you are doing that thing where you feel you are the guy or one of the guys in the room taking this seriously because no one else is. Basically playing smart guy devils advocate. At least its coming off that way. 

 

And I don't see the point in doing that in this case. We have multiple very safe and free vaccinations for this problem. Had we all taken advantage of them, this would be over by now or at least noticeably better. As you say, this would, possibly, maybe work as a treatment. But you wont need this as a treatment with the vaccine, this I'm sure we can come to something close to an agreement on. Why, then, would we wait to treat a virus when we could inoculate ourselves against it and be done with it? 

 

Past that, this same petulance (not yours) that lead us to searching for an alternative in the first place, is the same exact thing that had people buying up hydroxy which, lest you forget was found to have possible serious side effects once studied. Imo time wasted trying to treat a virus we have efficient and free inoculation for is self defeating. And stupid. Thus I laugh at these fools. But past that, I already know these are not the kind of people I can have a conversation like this with, so why waste the brain cells? I can talk to you like this, not these twerps I'm laughing at. 

 

I do have a (serious) question though. Am I wrong in that just inoculating ourselves against this would be the most affective course of action, not giving air to treatments that may or may not exist yet? 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

@Llevron

yeah and that’s the problem for me at the moment. It’s hard, especially when I don’t know much about the field at all, to do what I’m trying to do here… 

 

I think there’s value for us in understanding that ivermectin is a legitimate drug for people that has legitimate purposes, that it isn’t just a cattle drug. That there is belief about its anti inflammatory effects, specifically in the lungs, could help with a severe covid infection. That what I just said is a hell of a lot more than “lol horse dewormer”. And if you don’t see value in understanding this, then maybe check out the other thread where it got to the point that people thought a doctor prescribing it (and a court enforcing it) to a severely ill covid patient that was not getting better after 19 (I think it was 19?) days of the more ‘standard’ treatment should have his medical license revoked  here

 

I also think there’s value, in dealing with the whole misinformation and antisocial element of our country, in being right in what you argue. He whole mocking and condescension thing doesn’t help, and I’m so frustrated with the current situation i join in the mockery and condescension as well (so it’s not like I’m riding on a high horse here), but it really doesn’t help when it appears you don’t understand what you’re talking about. 
 

and I posted it because up until 20 minutes or so before I posted it, I was solely on the “lol horse dewormer” train too. I thought it was interesting there was way more to it. I thought it was worth sharing. I thought most here were likely in the same boat as me, but was also concerned I was the only one that didn’t understand all this so I started with “I realize I may look silly here…”

 

and then asked if any of you had actually looked into it, or understood what ivermectin was. Or, if like me, you only knew the “lol horse dewormer” part. 
 

I was shocked to find the stuff on nih I found. Like I said in the original post - I assumed it was Q troll job. 
 

I thought there was a chance at a discussion about this aspect. About some of us learning something about it. And I was encouraged when the first reply actually added information, but that turned out to be the only one. The rest was just “shut up tshile lol horse dewormer”

 

im certainly not suggesting anyone take it over the other methods to protect us. I’m certainly not suggesting anyone take it at all. But - you can’t take the vaccine once you’re infected to help you, but maybe you can this - so that’s not even an argument to me. Of course I should think people should get vaccinated - but this isn’t a vaccine, it’s a potential treatment. The NIH doesn’t like the clinical trials done on ivermectin. I get it. I just thought there was a smarter conversation to have here. 
 

I don’t even think any of this changes my original opinion that we should make sure whoever wants to risk their life with horse dosed ivermectin has the opportunity to do so, because I’m tired of these people ****ing up my life and my family’s life. 
 

but I also think if you don’t know anything about ivermectin, maybe you should shut up and let the medical field worry about it. Isn’t that what we’ve been telling everyone else for 18 months? 
 

and ultimately I blame the news media for covering it like they have. I have lots of different news feeds. Most of which I consider pretty good at trying to give you correct information. None of this was there. I had to go looking myself. And I expected to find the typical search results you find when you look into conspiracy theories. But nope, first two results were NIH- 1 for their covid treatment site and one for a general study on it. 
 

🤷‍♂️ 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I do have a (serious) question though. Am I wrong in that just inoculating ourselves against this would be the most affective course of action, not giving air to treatments that may or may not exist yet? 

To this specifically:

my understanding is vaccination, social distancing, and masking are the known, effective, ways to mitigate this. And that presently nothing else is even close, much less better. 
 

but, none of those help after you’re infected. 
 

And while treatment for covid has progress leaps and bounds over the last 18 months (and my understanding is it was the USA medical community that contributed to much, if not all, of that progress), I also know that 18 months is not a super long time and that there are likely things we will know 5 years from now we didnt know now, that help. So I try to keep an open mind. 
 

Things like rolling patients over regularly is supposed to increase the odds of success with treatment. I imagine there’s a number of other tactics, and drug’s out there that will help that we just haven’t figured out yet.  
 

I also imagine that when we have a firm grip on this whole thing there’s going to be a list of things that we’re tried, or through to be effective, that we discover weren’t effective at all.

 

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think the media has any choice but to cover it as “lol horse dewormer” at this point.  You give folks an inch, they will take a mile.  If I’m media, I don’t want to give any credence to the drug with the limited information that’s available currently.

Not that I want to hear a dead horse (see what I did there) but just quickly:

I don’t think you’re factoring in the negative effects of someone discovering the information about ivermectin, only to have the rest of us completely discount (mostly because none of us even know anything about ivermectin) in the most mocking way possible. 
 

you’re destroying your own credibility when you do that. It’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about. And sure you could say they don’t trust us anyways so whatever - but then how exactly does it make sense that the way we handled this is right? You either care about your influence and credibility or you don’t. Dismissing this, the way we have, isn’t showing you care about your influence and credibility. 

Edited by tshile
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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted

@tshile Ima be honest with you (and again I don't mean this in a passive aggressive way), I think it sounds kinda arrogant of you to assume that just because you didn't know there was more to this story than lol horse, that the rest of us didn't. And that factored into the responses you initially got. Personally I am initially defensive whenever someone is telling me im wrong. Add in that extra air of superiority (again, I personally) tend to read into your posts, and I bet people were not very willing to admit to you had a point even if they thought you did. You tend to step on your own feet from my perspective on things like this more often than most. I don't say that as a negative btw I actually enjoy it and learn from it. But complaining about people taking you seriously and being condescending in your approach (note: condensation you said in the post above does NOT help) is (surprisingly) not helping you cut through the horse **** here.

 

Past that - there is no news to be made on ivermectin. Seriously, tell me what news originations should be saying about Ivermectin and Covid that the manufacturer of the drug isn't even touting? 

 

Quote

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

  • No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; 
  • No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and; 
  • A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

 

The only news to be had here IS lol horse. I know you dislike her news coverage, but watch this 8 min clip and tell me what else it is you would like to be covered. I really want to know. Because the news to me on this Ivermectin stuff is that people are literally poising themselves trying to prevent covid with it. So much. All over the country. That is news. That it could possibly maybe one day do something other than rid you of head lice is not news. Its conjecture at best.  

 

 

 

 

 

Two parts I wanted to specifically address. 

 

28 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 - but this isn’t a vaccine, it’s a potential treatment. The NIH doesn’t like the clinical trials done on ivermectin. I get it. I just thought there was a smarter conversation to have here. 

 

We have a treatment for COVID already, right? I'm referring to monoclonal antibodies. I am seriously asking though because I don't know much about it other than it exists and it works well enough that Biden and Desantis agree on it. So I don't see how its news worthy that another one may exist possibly one day when its not even close to confirmed through clinical trial yet. Thats not news to me. 

 

Also why are people trying to take it to prevent and not treat covid? Doesn't that kinda **** up the entire thing anyway LOL? 

 

28 minutes ago, tshile said:

but I also think if you don’t know anything about ivermectin, maybe you should shut up and let the medical field worry about it. Isn’t that what we’ve been telling everyone else for 18 months? 

 

What is the medical community saying about Ivermectin? Serious inquiry. 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Ima be honest with you (and again I don't mean this in a passive aggressive way), I think it sounds kinda arrogant of you to assume that just because you didn't know there was more to this story than lol horse, that the rest of us didn't. And that factored into the responses you initially got.

The rest of your post is either already answered (to the extent I can answer it, without doing more digging, which I’m not really interested in because a) none of you seem to care and b) I’d want more traction than random doctor in Texas first before putting more of my time into it), or a continuation of this part. 

 

but I don’t know what to tell you dude. 
 

i started the entire conversation with this:

“

Ok. I have a question. At the risk of looking really silly. 
 

have any of you looked into ivermectin? Or are you, like I was until earlier today, only really up to speed on on the “lol it’s horse de-wormer” tweet version of things?”

 

the rest of my posts were sharing some of the info I found, saying I don’t like that the media covered it the way it did (from what I saw), and that I think we (the non-crazy, not-antivaxxer group) should want to do better on a subject than we (myself included) did here. 

 

I don’t know how to be anymore sincere and genuine than admitting maybe I’m the only one that didn’t get it, and lumping myself into the group of people who didn’t get it. Which, I lumped myself into that group repeatedly in multiple posts. 
 

and while I originally thought I might get laughed at for being late to the party, there are plenty of posts/responses that show im not the only one.  In fact, I’ve only seen 1 poster in both threads post something that indicated (s)he did know this stuff. One. 

I can only type what I think. I can only try to be sincere and genuine. I can’t help it if I you choose to instead interpret all that as me being arrogant or something. 

Edited by tshile
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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, tshile said:

The rest of your post is either already answered (to the extent I can answer it, without doing more digging, which I’m not really interested in because a) none of you seem to care and b) I’d want more traction than random doctor in Texas first before putting more of my time into it), or a continuation of this part. 

 

You spent time on the wrong part, for real. I am way past my personal take on your style...I was just offering criticism, hoping it could be constructive. I knew I should have left that alone. My b. Consider it corrected. That was off base of me. 

 

But I am very interested on what you find news worthy about ivermectin that the rest of the world has missed besides the fact that its harming people who take the farm animal version of it. You sometimes teach me stuff. I'm inviting you to do it again. And admittedly its because I god honestly don't think there is much else. 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Did anyone else read about the DOJ looking into the mask bans republican governors are enacting  as a civil rights issue?  Seems like a mistake to me.

I thought the same thing. 
 

Im not exactly a civil rights guru… but it seems like overreach to push an agenda. And feel like overreach to push and agenda in this case gives credit to arguments like:

well the doe (I thought it was the department of education that put 5 states on notice not doj?!?) shouldn’t have the ability to enforce civil rights matters, as they clearly abuse it

 

and so, yeah, I kind of think it’s a mistake. And I don’t like it. 
 

but I’m open to someone who actually understands the objective/mission statement of a DOE department for investigating civil rights, explaining to me why this is actually a great example (that actually relates to civil rights, not just forcing the mask agenda (which I agree with))

 

all that said 90% of me is A-OK with doing whatever it takes to protect our children from dip**** politicians doing things like banning mask mandates. 
 

if I were king such lack of regard for children would be a stone-able offense. 

Just now, Llevron said:

I am way past my personal take on your style

Doesn’t really seem like it. See: recent pages in thread. 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Ok well this is the second time ill say im sorry and ask you to elaborate on what's news worthy in your opinion on ivermectin. 

Sorry. I literally only read that sentence and called it a day. 
 

I thought what ivermectin was, was news worthy. Cause until then, I only knew it as a horse dewormer that stupid people were taking. 
 

that’s literally it. 

@CousinsCowgirl84

yeah it was dept of education 

https://www.wlbt.com/2021/08/30/state-mask-bans-face-federal-civil-rights-inquiries/

 

which, side note, had no idea they had an office of civil rights to do such things. 

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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
Posted

are you two bucking for lead casting in a reboot of "the odd couple"?

 

not an old enough reference?

 

 

how about "the bickersons" ?

 

for the spike--that would be don ameche and frances langford 

 

championship!!

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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

are you two bucking for lead casting in a reboot of "the odd couple"?

 

not an old enough reference?

 

 

how about "the bickersons" ?

 

for the spike--that would be don ameche and frances langford 

 

championship!!

 

I dont know any of these references but I know when im being told to stop being a douche lol

 

Edit: I googled. I legit thought you made up the Bickersons. I am going away now. 

 

Edited by Llevron
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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I dont know any of these references but I know when im being told to stop being a douche lol

 

 

 

i had presumed, being the responsible lad you are, that you would promptly google them

 

 

when i was just a grasshopper waiting for my turn outside the temple, i used to listen to comedy albums from the 50's/60's and that continued for a long time

 

i once had an enormous comedy album collection from the 50's to the 80's...inc. live marx bros, live lenny bruce and live woody allen standup way before he michael jackson'ed himself out of my affection...rowan and martin with guest star don rickles live in las vegas

 

but i digress---pandemics are serious business---don't take horse pills fellow kids!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

are you two bucking for lead casting in a reboot of "the odd couple"?

I’m a strange bird 

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I googled. I legit thought you made up the Bickersons. I am going away now. 

I just don’t have it in me to figure out what all that meant 

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

i once had an enormous comedy album collection from the 50's to the 80's...inc. live marx bros, live lenny bruce and live woody allen standup way before he michael jackson'ed himself out of my affection...rowan and martin with guest star don rickles live in las vegas


Bill Cosby. 

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China

China

Posted
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Posted

Marine Corporal Discharged over Refusal to Wear a Mask

 

Marine Cpl. Whitney McHaffie refused to comply with a mask mandate and doesn't want to be vaccinated against COVID-19.

 

A month after the Defense Department's mask mandate for unvaccinated troops went into effect, she was booted from the military, possibly making her the first service member to be forced out of the service for violating COVID-related rules.

 

McHaffie, who served at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, North Carolina, went viral on social media after appearing in a video with Josh Mandel, a former Ohio state treasurer who is currently in his second run for the Senate. The video, in which she tells her story of being swiftly booted from the Corps for disobeying the mask mandate, had more than 400,000 views as of Tuesday morning.

 

Vaccines are now mandatory for troops, but were not at the time of McHaffie's discharge.An indoor mask mandate for unvaccinated troops was in effect at the time.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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