The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[Peregrine]

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

The guy saying to put a SS at FS because he played CB I'd assume. It's a bad idea and I don't understand the logic of playing someone out of position and creating an obvious hole in the back of our defense. 

 

There are a bunch of great FS candidates in FA this year too. Why create an incredible defense that has nobody on the back end of it? It's dumb.

So then its dumb when an NFL coach plays a Guard at Tackle, or a LT at RT?

 

Because those are two different positions.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Apparently you see “his coverage isn’t top end and his speed isn’t quite where you want it to be” and equate that to him being too slow.

 

I also think you missed the part saying that if a guy falls to us in the draft I’d take him. 
 

Which is exactly what you just said, given that you know we can’t pay a FS/MLB and QB top end cash. So where is our difference in addressing the position?

 

All I’m saying is that we aren’t in dire straits because Curl CAN play there. And probably adequately enough to help the defense. I’m not saying the position is set. Hence my comment about drafting Paris, Holland or Cisco if they fall.

I'd draft it. I wanted to trade for Fitz before he went to the steelers. I put a ton of weight on the position and I'm sick of watching SSs and old CBs get plugged in and fail. 

 

Just because you say that Curl can play there, doesn't mean it's good. You've never seen it, nobody has. That holds as much weight as saying that you can play it.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd draft it. I wanted to trade for Fitz before he went to the steelers. I put a ton of weight on the position and I'm sick of watching SSs and old CBs get plugged in and fail. 

 

Just because you say that Curl can play there, doesn't mean it's good. You've never seen it, nobody has. That holds as much weight as saying that you can play it.

The same can be said for literally any conversation we have here about bringing guys in. It’s an opinion. You don’t agree. Cool.

 

I think he’d be fine there. For the reasons I listed. *shrug*
 

Not ideal, but Collins is going to play so it’s the best way to get him on the field on a regular basis for now and it would probably be an improvement. Long term he is not the FS.

[Commander_N_Chief]

Too much to quote in regards to everything being said.  I also believe Collins will be on the field, but I look to him making a move to MIKE.  It would adequately kill two birds with one stone.  I'm not sure if Collins would go for it since that's what ultimately ended up being the reason he got out of NY.  They asked him to transition over there and he basically told them to pound sand and entered FA.  Not sure he has that same kind of energy since he's under contract?

 

Either way FS is a need but I'm with KB on this, I'm not as worried about it as I was last year.  If one happens to fall to us in the 3rd, I'd absolutely snatch them up.  If not, I'm not worried about that on our defense.  Our biggest need on D are linebackers that can play out wide or blanket the faster TEs in the league.

 

I'm not really excited for pick 19 in the draft, no one(unless someone drops) has really excited me with their value there.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

he is not the FS.

Agreed. Stop pretending he is please.

[skinny21]

I’d love to add a quality FS.  For me though, this defense has proven it can be a top unit without a good starter there.  If we had an ILB (or two) that could seriously limit opponents ground games, this becomes a complete unit (even though FS would be the weak link).  Related to that, if we don’t re-sign Darby (or find a quality replacement), we’re putting more pressure on the FS and therefore taking away some of the advantage our pass rush brings.  FS then becomes more important in that context.

 

I’m more concerned about adding a quality receiver opposite McLaurin, a slot receiver, oline, corner, TE and OLB depth, ILB(s), and a qb.  FS to me is probably a little above adding another back.  Don’t get me wrong though, they are both still needs.

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

So then its dumb when an NFL coach plays a Guard at Tackle, or a LT at RT?

 

Because those are two different positions.

Lol not the same thing. Also are you talking about obviously planning to play someone totally out of position on purpose going into the next season or moving a guy because of injury in season or a situation like Sherff that you know is not going to be a tackle moving to guard?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Agreed. Stop pretending he is please.

Taking my posts out of context is a fun exercise. 
 

Congrats on making it look like I said something I didn’t, though.

[CapsSkins]

Does Collins have the lateral speed to play LB? He could put on 10 lbs and be big enough, but LB is a very different position than SS.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Taking my posts out of context is a fun exercise. 
 

Congrats on making it look like I said something I didn’t, though.

Curl is not the answer at FS.

 

FS is a major hole. 

 

The other 10 guys can cover it up, but it's a hole. Especially if Darby leaves.

 

Sorry I can't get behind the "just throw anyone from the backfield in the hole" mantra that's plagued us for decades. 

[KDawg]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

Does Collins have the lateral speed to play LB? He could put on 10 lbs and be big enough, but LB is a very different position than SS.

I wouldn’t want him in the box. But in the 4-2 nickel look he could be an edge rusher or around a slot receiver and play the curl/flat zone and play the run. Which he’s been doing anyways as the SS.

 

Problem is Curl is better at it. But they’re going to play Collins regardless. 

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Curl is not the answer at FS.

 

FS is a major hole. 

 

The other 10 guys can cover it up, but it's a hole. Especially if Darby leaves.

 

Sorry I can't get behind the "just throw anyone from the backfield in the hole" mantra that's plagued us for decades. 

That’s not what I’m saying and I explained my stance. You don’t like it and that’s fine. But let’s not try to change what I say because you don’t agree. I said what I said.

 

I am fine addressing the position but I don’t believe major resources need to be put into it. A 3rd would be a good spot to get an upgrade if they are the best player available to us, or close, it makes sense to me. Otherwise, I do think Curl can play there. Not as a “throw him in for the sake of it” but as a “he can do it and be an upgrade”.

[CapsSkins]

Collins also isn't particularly tradeable this year. Oh well. These are good problems to have.

 

My guess is Jack will try to have as many packages w/ Curl and Collins both on the field as possible. FS I'd draft a guy in the later rounds and if they don't develop fast enough, we have Everett and Reaves this year. Reality is I'm thinking 1) QB, 2) Pass-catcher, 3) LB and everything else is in "Nice to Have" territory.

[Ball Security]

Is Collins out of his walking boot yet?  There’s no guarantee that he’ll be ready to go at the beginning of next season.

[Koolblue13]

Personally I'd double down on our current strength, build the offense through the draft and let it develop. 

 

Allen is probably our starter, Heineke and a rookie from outside the first, sign Mosley and Simmons or Winfield or Mayes or someone, resign darby, draft Harris or another bruiser in the draft and a WR. 

 

Having a glut at SS is great and I'm sure JDR can come up with some really fast packages between the 4 of those guys, but FS is a need.

[Est.1974]

I wonder if we approach Collins about a restructure. His salary for 2021 could guarantee through injury, but there is no way he sticks around after that on his deal. Especially now with the play of Curl. Could he be swayed to stick around medium term on less money. Then again, is he really that good????

 

FS - we took a swing on Sean Davis, so recognition of the need is there. It still is. Could we pay 10-12mil p/y to Marcus Maye or Marcus Williams? Not much else about unless you go all in on the top available player. Doubtful.

 

might have to take a flyer on a mid rounder. dangerous tactic though.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I wonder if we approach Collins about a restructure. His salary for 2021 could guarantee through injury, but there is no way he sticks around after that on his deal. Especially now with the play of Curl. Could he be swayed to stick around medium term on less money. Then again, is he really that good????

 

FS - we took a swing on Sean Davis, so recognition of the need is there. It still is. Could we pay 10-12mil p/y to Marcus Maye or Marcus Williams? Not much else about unless you go all in on the top available player. Doubtful.

 

might have to take a flyer on a mid rounder. dangerous tactic though.

Who knows. He's always viewed himself as a homer because of ST. We're building something special and if he knows that and wants to be a part of it, maybe he will. He's super talented and I have to believe that JDR can figure out a way to keep both of them on the field.

 

10mil on Maye would be great IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

please let David hit FA!  😀

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

please let David hit FA!  😀

 

 

 

I would love to sign him. Apart from Dak hitting FA, he's the guy I want the most on this team. Dude has been as solid as a rock since 2012 and would be our best LBer. 

[method man]

Here’s a thought exercise: if you can get Okudah for #19, would you do it? He had a disaster of a rookie year under Patricia but was one of the best CB prospects over the past 10 years before that. If you can make it work with him, you have a potentially elite CB on a peanuts salary for the next 3 years because the Lions would eat his bonus. I personally believe in our coaches

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, method man said:

Here’s a thought exercise: if you can get Okudah for #19, would you do it? He had a disaster of a rookie year under Patricia but was one of the best CB prospects over the past 10 years before that. If you can make it work with him, you have a potentially elite CB on a peanuts salary for the next 3 years because the Lions would eat his bonus. I personally believe in our coaches

 Not before we see what’s at 19

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I wonder if we approach Collins about a restructure. His salary for 2021 could guarantee through injury, but there is no way he sticks around after that on his deal. Especially now with the play of Curl. Could he be swayed to stick around medium term on less money. Then again, is he really that good????

 

FS - we took a swing on Sean Davis, so recognition of the need is there. It still is. Could we pay 10-12mil p/y to Marcus Maye or Marcus Williams? Not much else about unless you go all in on the top available player. Doubtful.

 

might have to take a flyer on a mid rounder. dangerous tactic though.

I’d be happy to spend on a quality FS... but I have some caveats.  1.  I’d prioritize re-signing Scherff and Darby over paying for a FA FS.  Obviously that could always bite us in the butt if they (Scherff/Darby) miss significant time, but I’d rather keep what’s working and reward guys that have proven themselves for us.  2.  If signing a FS (along with our re-signings) doesn’t impact our chances of retaining our dlinemen/McLaurin/etc. down the road.  3.  If we’re still able to sign a quality ILB.

 

The bottom line for me is I don’t want to get too cute trying make roster moves.  We could let Darby walk and hope to find our version of Darby in FA, or we could let Scherff walk and hope to find another Sweitzer.  Big risk to mess around with what worked so well for us though...  I’d hate to see the D take a step back because teams pick on our right corner, or the run game/pass pro suffer because we don’t find a quality G replacement.  If that means we only have a draft pick to compete with Bostic at ILB, or a rook to compete with Reaves/Everett... so be it.  

 

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a time to fall back on your pipeline and let certain guys walk in FA (including good players), but we don’t really have anyone remotely proven at corner or G ATM.  Keep drafting and filling the back end of the roster with rooks for now and hopefully we’ll have that luxury in the near future.  Speaking of which, I hope we draft a back and TE to try to take over for McKissick/Thomas in 2022.

[method man]

50 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’d be happy to spend on a quality FS... but I have some caveats.  1.  I’d prioritize re-signing Scherff and Darby over paying for a FA FS.  Obviously that could always bite us in the butt if they (Scherff/Darby) miss significant time, but I’d rather keep what’s working and reward guys that have proven themselves for us.  2.  If signing a FS (along with our re-signings) doesn’t impact our chances of retaining our dlinemen/McLaurin/etc. down the road.  3.  If we’re still able to sign a quality ILB.

 

The bottom line for me is I don’t want to get too cute trying make roster moves.  We could let Darby walk and hope to find our version of Darby in FA, or we could let Scherff walk and hope to find another Sweitzer.  Big risk to mess around with what worked so well for us though...  I’d hate to see the D take a step back because teams pick on our right corner, or the run game/pass pro suffer because we don’t find a quality G replacement.  If that means we only have a draft pick to compete with Bostic at ILB, or a rook to compete with Reaves/Everett... so be it.  

 

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a time to fall back on your pipeline and let certain guys walk in FA (including good players), but we don’t really have anyone remotely proven at corner or G ATM.  Keep drafting and filling the back end of the roster with rooks for now and hopefully we’ll have that luxury in the near future.  Speaking of which, I hope we draft a back and TE to try to take over for McKissick/Thomas in 2022.

Scherff is a beast but I don’t like the thought of signing him (unless on another 1 yr franchise tender) because he misses at least a few games every single season. Plus I don’t like paying $15m/yr for a guard. I feel good about Charles filling that spot and, if you want insurance, you can go sign another Schweitzer or draft a guard in late Day 2/early Day 3. 

I also wouldn’t go overboard with paying a FS. Everett has proven he is at least solid in that spot and is an enforcer who makes receivers think twice about going over the middle (I don’t think Curl is necessarily a big hitter)

 

If you get a vet QB, I think you realistically have the cap room for 1, maybe 2, splurge signings given all the guys we have to resign or extend. I’d save that capital for ILB and/or WR

 

 

[Warhead36]

Other then Thomas Davis who was basically just brought here to be a player-coach, we nailed this FA class. Holy crap.

[Anselmheifer]

9 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I’d love to add a quality FS.  For me though, this defense has proven it can be a top unit without a good starter there.  If we had an ILB (or two) that could seriously limit opponents ground games, this becomes a complete unit (even though FS would be the weak link).  

We could really use some pieces to help us limit the impact of these mobile QB's as well. A sideline to sideline LB with good instincts and pursuit speed would be a big boon here. 

6 hours ago, method man said:

Here’s a thought exercise: if you can get Okudah for #19, would you do it? He had a disaster of a rookie year under Patricia but was one of the best CB prospects over the past 10 years before that. If you can make it work with him, you have a potentially elite CB on a peanuts salary for the next 3 years because the Lions would eat his bonus. I personally believe in our coaches

 

Yes. In a hot second. But I don't think Detroit does that deal. You don't trade the #3 pick overall, for the 19th pick, 1 year after a season limited by injuries. 

[Koolblue13]

I'd say our 3 largest priorities in FA are QB, MLB, WR, FS in that order. I think we spend big on 2 of them and I don't think it's QB or WR.