Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Anselmheifer]

20 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

The hit rate on this list is not all that high. Though I suppose that depends on your definition of a hit rate.

 

Chris Long was a very good DE, but no where near the 6th best prospect on the EDGE.

 

Ansah at 10, Solomon Thomas, Clelin Ferrell, Dante Fowler really shouldn't be there.

 

Goes to show that the guys who rate prospects are often right (Peppers, Miller, Mack) and often wrong and these "generational" grades given to players shouldn't be taken as gospel. 

 

 

literally none of the guys you mention that bombed were labeled generational. It’s a false equivalency. The last edge guy that I can remember being called generational is Julius Peppers. Can you find a link calling any highly selected edge rusher that bombed, “generational”?

https://scarletandgame.com/2017/03/18/ohio-state-football-another-star-making/

 

Not super interesting, but there is a video in the above link showing Chase benching 345 as a skinny high schooler. I wonder how much stronger he is now. 
 

As a side note, it wouldn’t surprise me if Young’s workout numbers aren’t as high as people expect. You can’t find them online anywhere. Usually for these athletic freaks, there is something online stating that they had a fast time measured in the 40, or have an amazing vertical, or bench/deadlift/squat numbers. For Chase there is nothing. And his 40 wasn’t that fast coming out of HS. 

 

[KDawg]

If you’re a top 15 edge prospect, that’s pretty generational, isn’t it?

 

This is good. Helps to define terms.

[redskinss]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If you’re a top 15 edge prospect, that’s pretty generational, isn’t it?

 

This is good. Helps to define terms.

I would disagree,  a generational talent is someone who only comes around once in a generation, meaning 15 to 20 years. 

There are top 15 edge prospects every year. 

A generational prospect is someone who you think has a reasonable chance to be the next Bruce Smith or reggie white.

It gets tossed around way too much but since we have no idea how these guys talent will translate we do it all the time with college superstars. 

But that list had the benefit of Hindsight and to call almost all of them generational would be ridiculous 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I agree. Which is why it’s off putting to see it touted as one of the qualities we’ve seen develop. It seems made up. We haven’t seen that yet, in part because of his situation, in part because of mistakes he made due to his maturing process.

 

He has a Rocket, has shown he is willing to look in the mirror and improve, has seemingly matured, reports say he studied more and got more involved as the season went on, and he seems to learn from his mistakes on field and off quickly. We’ve seen that. We can talk about it.

 

But we haven’t really seen the leadership stuff yet. 
 

Again, as he grows more comfortable that may be a quality that shows up. But it remains to be seen.

 

I disagree about leadership. The highlighted are in fact signs of leadership. Taking accountability for your own actions is the first step.  Guys respond to leadership by example. I am not saying he is a finished product in any way. But I do think it's fair to say he started to shows some signs of leadership as the season went on and he was given more of a chance. 

 

Again he has a long way to go but to say we have not seen any improvement in his leadership I believe is not accurate. 

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If you’re a top 15 edge prospect, that’s pretty generational, isn’t it?

 

This is good. Helps to define terms.

 

Not at all generational. A generational talent has to marry rare enough production and athletic traits to come around probably once every 5-10 years. I use 10. I listened to a PFF video where they said that they use 5 years. The Dante Fowlers of the world are taken high because they look pretty good and there is a ton of value in pass rushers. They get pulled up the draft board. Julius Peppers, Julio Jones, Sean Taylor, Megatron, would be examples of generational prospects. Myles Garrett wouldn't. He had elite size and measurables and good but not great production. IMHO. 

[skinny21]

In football terms, I consider ‘generational’ as roughly every 10 years.  

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I would disagree,  a generational talent is someone who only comes around once in a generation, meaning 15 to 20 years. 

There are top 15 edge prospects every year

yeah I’d say this too. 
 

15-20 years if you want to use the term generational.

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I would disagree,  a generational talent is someone who only comes around once in a generation, meaning 15 to 20 years. 

There are top 15 edge prospects every year. 

A generational prospect is someone who you think has a reasonable chance to be the next Bruce Smith or reggie white.

It gets tossed around way too much but since we have no idea how these guys talent will translate we do it all the time with college superstars. 

But that list had the benefit of Hindsight and to call almost all of them generational would be ridiculous 

 

Wikipedia: A generation is "all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively." It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children of their own".^[1] In kinship terminology, it is a structural term designating the parent-child relationship. It is also known as biogenesis, reproduction, or procreation in the biological sciences."

 

By this definition, we've seen one pass rusher that is generational between 1990-2020.

 

I also don't think you understood my point about that being a top 15... those guys weren't all drafted the same year. I wasn't saying the top guys in a single class makes you generational... that doesn't change the impact of your point, but I figured I'd clarify

 

24 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I disagree about leadership. The highlighted are in fact signs of leadership. Taking accountability for your own actions is the first step.  Guys respond to leadership by example. I am not saying he is a finished product in any way. But I do think it's fair to say he started to shows some signs of leadership as the season went on and he was given more of a chance. 

 

Again he has a long way to go but to say we have not seen any improvement in his leadership I believe is not accurate. 

 

We're all entitled to that

 

I don't find the opinion that he's showing any leadership ability as accurate. Tomato, to-ma-toe. Maturing doesn't make you a leader.

 

Again, I'm not saying he can't be. I just don't think he was at the stage last season to really show any of that. *shrug*

 

14 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Not at all generational. A generational talent has to marry rare enough production and athletic traits to come around probably once every 5-10 years. I use 10. I listened to a PFF video where they said that they use 5 years. The Dante Fowlers of the world are taken high because they look pretty good and there is a ton of value in pass rushers. They get pulled up the draft board. Julius Peppers, Julio Jones, Sean Taylor, Megatron, would be examples of generational prospects. Myles Garrett wouldn't. He had elite size and measurables and good but not great production. IMHO. 

 

Are we using production as an argument then? Because that validates the non sense about his "numbers" against Clemson. 

 

Sometimes I play Devil's Advocate on purpose to get people thinking about things because the stuff you guys say makes me think. 

 

Defining terms is arduous and tedious and often not feasible. But production can mean a lot of things. Career? Against top 25 opponents? Game to game?

 

(I'm pretty close to agreement with you on what generational is, other than the amount of years... I actually think the term generational is silly... but if I were to use it the way others do, I think my views fit with yours)

[goskins10]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:50 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, I agree. If we’re talking about general consensus EDGE grades as prospects (for players picked in the top 10) I’d have it:

 

1. Julius Peppers

2. Chase Young

3. Von Miller (there were questions about his size and run defense)

4. Myles Garrett

5. Jadaveon Clowney

6. Chris Long

7. Nick Bosa

8. Joey Bosa

9. Khalil Mack

10. Ezekiel Ansah

11. Josh Allen

12. Bradley Chubb

13. Dante Fowler

14. Solomon Thomas

15. Clelin Ferrell

 

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few. 

 

I believe while all those were considered best in the draft class or close to it, if I remember only a few were touted as generational players: 

 

Peppers

Now Young

Garrett

Clowney

 

The rest were expected to be really good but i do not remember anything close to generational. 

In Clelin's case he was a bottom 1st rd talent for almost everyone except for Oakland who for some reason thought he should go #4. 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by goskins10

[Warhead36]

Peppers, Miller, and Clowney are the only three that as prospects were as highly rated as Young is now. Maybe the Bosas. And, ding ding, they've all panned out.

[redskinss]

Is semi or bi decadonal a word?

 

Let's go with that and call it a day.

Edited January 28, 2020 by redskinss

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Is semi or bi decadonal a word?

 

Let's go with that and call it a day.

 

I'm in. Let's change the culture.

[Anselmheifer]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Are we using production as an argument then? Because that validates the non sense about his "numbers" against Clemson. 

 

That's just a silly argument. Yes. Of course you use production. Both across a college career and their peak production. It's not universal, but generally speaking, pass rushing production translates to the NFL. It's a talent that is based on more than just measurable athletic traits. Every pass rusher has down games. Almost none have a season where they get a sack in every game. Secondarily, Chase WAS super productive in that Clemson game. He had 10 pressures and 4 QB hits. 

Chase had a better statistical season in terms of pressure rate than any collegiate prospect since PFF started analyzing prospects. And if you go by sack production, he produced more than Clowney, Myles Garrett, Josh Allen in his 1st 3 years, etc etc etc. 

 

We should have known about Clowney. He's been an impact defender, but a ton of that impact is against the run. He isn't a generational pass rusher. He looked stiff and then produced only 3 sacks as a senior. Can you picture Chase getting 3 sacks in a college season, no matter the effort level? I literally struggle to picture Chase playing a college season after this year and not posting at least one 3 sack game. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jadeveon-clowney-1.html

[wit33]

It’s always great for a player to have freakish athletic ability and it be coupled with production. Not that it’s everything, but it’s comforting to know Young was the leading “sack getter” this past season and not just a freak with above average to good production. 
 

Imagine having to convince yourself how great Chase Young is after a 3 sack junior season like that of Clowney when entering the draft (he did have 13 as a Sophomore). Not attempting to make this one example an end-all-be-all point, but maybe it’s not coincidence that Clowney has not produced great to elite sack numbers in any NFL season. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by wit33

[HTTRDynasty]

48 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I believe while all those were considered best in the draft class or close to it, if I remember only a few were touted as generational players: 

 

Peppers

Now Young

Garrett

Clowney

 

The rest were expected to be really good but i do not remember anything close to generational. 

In Clelin's case he was a bottom 1st rd talent for almost everyone except for Oakland who for some reason thought he should go #4. 

 

 

When did I ever say they were generational?  Maybe I missed something, but why are people assuming that about my post?  I was just ranking the EDGE prospects drafted in the top 10 over the past couple decades.

[Anselmheifer]

39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s always great for a player to freakish athletic ability coupled with production. Not that it’s everything, but it’s comforting to know Young was the leading “sack getter” this past season and not just a freak with above average to good production. 
 

Imagine having to convince yourself how great Chase Young is after a 3 sack junior season like that of Clowney when entering the draft (he did have 13 as a Sophomore). Not attempting to make this one example an end-all-be-all point, but maybe it’s not coincidence that Clowney has not produced great to elite sack numbers in any NFL season. 

 

In general, adequately sized guys that produce a ton of sacks in college also produce in the NFL, whether or not they are truly elite athletes. It's a little like basketball. Some guys can just play, and in rushing the passer there is so much hand use, etc that can't be adequately measured. The poster child for this is probably still Terrell Suggs. 

 

A lack of production is worrisome. Sometimes these guys with elite speed traits, but without good production, eventually, "get it" and explode for a while, but they usually aren't the guys that produce at a high level for a decade. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

When did I ever say they were generational?  Maybe I missed something, but why are people assuming that about my post?  I was just ranking the EDGE prospects drafted in the top 10 over the past couple decades.

 

That appeared to be the conversation. If it wasn't the fair enough. But why did you list them if not to make that argument? Honest question. 

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

That appeared to be the conversation. If it wasn't the fair enough. But why did you list them if not to make that argument? Honest question. 

 

How so?  When was the word "generational" mentioned before my reply and especially in the post I replied to?

 

I listed them to show how Young compares to the other top pass rushers over the past two decades.

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

How so?  When was the word "generational" mentioned before my reply and especially in the post I replied to?

 

I listed them to show how Young compares to the other top pass rushers over the past two decades.

 

 

It was part of the conversation going backwards. if you did not say that then fine. Let's move on. I was adding my thoughts to the overall conversation which after you posted that led to discussing of generational talent. 

 

Better to end here. I withdrawal from the conversation. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

It was part of the conversation going backwards. if you did not say that then fine. Let's move on. I was adding my thoughts to the overall conversation which after you posted that led to discussing of generational talent. 

 

Better to end here. I withdrawal from the conversation. 

 

Yeah, I'm still confused because I just went back and looked at the last few pages and didn't see that "conversation" before my post.  Just saw one comment posted from over two days before I did that no one responded to.

 

Anyway, it really doesn't matter.  Though hopefully this clears up my intentions for anyone else that may respond to my post.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think Washington is in an incredibly good situation," King said. "Either they get a generational pass rusher, or they end up getting three ones out of it."

 

 

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/peter-king-redskins-could-remake-their-franchise-trading-no-2-pick

Edited January 28, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[bakedtater1]

I mentioned something about it already..miami wanting Tua that bad we drop back to 5 and get there 18,1 a 1st next year and a 2nd this year

[Skinsinparadise]

This point from Strahan to me applies to our team, too IMO.  From what I've heard, Chase Young beyond being a great player is also a boisterous locker room guy -- extroverted, outgoing.

 

I've watched a couple of Redskins camps, and its not hard to see we got some really quiet dudes on defense.  I know the media likes to tout Jonathan Allen because he gives them an occasional angry style sound bite but watching him in camp he struck me as a quiet dude who mostly keeps to himself and certainly is not vocal.  Ditto Payne, Kerrigan, Ioannidis.

 

Holcomb, Hamilton, etc quiet dudes.

 

I don't think it was an accident that the last time we had a good defense, Fletcher was in the mix.  Fletcher would rally the troops.  I don't know if Young is a rally the troops guy but I think if he's a dominant player, his play will be contagious.  And I do think that defense could use a dog type and an outgoing-extrovert to liven up that unit. 

 

 

 

“Defense is where I struggle, because there are times I’m watching, and I’m going, Wow, this is pretty bad. We don’t have a playmaker, per se, on defense, and that’s been a little disheartening. Where’s the guy who inspires everybody to play better?

“Front-office wise, I don’t know what their plan is. I mean, we got rid of Jackrabbit, traded Snacks, got rid of Odell Beckham Jr. We got rid of a lot of guys who were opinionated, but you’ve got to have a soul to your team. Can’t have a bunch of nice guys and win. It doesn’t work. We need to find some dogs.”

 

 

Chase Young growing into leadership role at Ohio State, coaches and teammates say

 

 

With Young having NFL potential — pretty high potential, mind you — his skills are more than enough to warrant him as one of the leaders on Ohio State’s defense. But in Columbus, there’s a bit of a standard when it comes to being a leader — one that Young has now embraced.

“The guys like him,” Ryan Day said, according to the Miami Herald. “He has a happy-go-lucky personality. I see more seriousness now. I think he knows this is his time to step up and be a leader.”

Young has led by example in his first two seasons with the Buckeyes. Last season, he tallied 9.5 sacks and 14.5 tackles for loss, more than doubling his totals from his freshman campaign. Now, with an even bigger role, more is expected from the talented defensive end.

His attitude off the field are beginning to match his actions on it. Linebacker Pete Werner says Young has become a guy who fires up his teammates each and every week.

 

“He’s awesome,” Werner said. “He gets me pumped up. As far as taking a leadership role he’s made big steps. He’s that guy now on the team that everybody is going to learn from.”

 

https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/chase-young-growing-into-leadership-role-at-ohio-state-coaches-and-teammates-say/

Edited January 28, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

19 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I mentioned something about it already..miami wanting Tua that bad we drop back to 5 and get there 18,1 a 1st next year and a 2nd this year

 

Only if they think Detroit is taking Tua. Most mocks have Det going D at #3. They are locked into Stafford for the next few years.  As for Tua, I know they say he will come back 100% from his injury but that is still a very high level of uncertainty. He may be physically Ok but can he play at the same level? 

 

I guess they could trade up to keep someone else from doing it. I like our position. We should have our choice of offers - and staying put and taking Young is also a great option. 

 

Whatever the do, this draft will go a long way to showing us were these guys heads are at. 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

SIP, I agree that this defense could use a tone setter. It's a shame. I think DJ Swearinger could have been that guy. I initially thought the 'Skins were the problem, but DJ appears to be a cancer disproportionate to his talent. He played on 3 teams this year. 

I think Young could be a vocal presence on our defense, but I really think that in an ideal world, teams have one of those guys at all 3 levels. Part of what I love about Chase is that he isn't just a finesse speed rusher. He arrives at the QB and the RB with malice. Heads snap back when he hits QB's from behind. He drives through running backs. Watch the play where he's the second guy to hit Trevor Lawrence and Lawrence is so slow to get up. Teams are really going to fear Chase Young, not just for the sacks and fumbles, but for the physicality.