Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Garapolo looked awful today and he hasn’t looked good all year. I think they’re going to get looking for a new QB sooner rather than later. The defense is very good, they were gashed in the first drive and basically shut everything down from there. Thats about all you can glean from this game in these conditions. I think Kyle is a good coach, but that’s more based on years of evidence rather than this game. Agree with all of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 @goskins10 it’s pretty clear Keenum is hurt. He can’t push off the leg and he has a shoulder injury. Callahan, and probably Bruce/Dan, just are not going to let Colt on the field. And haskins is not ready. So... you make the best of what you’be got. I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Actually if we had the #1 pick, and a coach could get complete control, that would be very enticing... Again, it depends on the coach. If we could somehow land a coach who had full control, was fresh and innovative, and knew how to design his system around the players he had then yes Tua would be a great fit. Like, for example, if Lincoln Riley were to come here...that pairing would be potentially super exciting. But there's about a 1% chance of us getting a coach like that. Even if Riley comes into the NFL I read that he's told people he would never take a job with the Redskins. No up and coming, heavily desired, innovative coaches are going to come here as long as we have this FO and their awful reputation. This place is a cesspool up top and the entire league knows it. My guess is we're either going to run with Callahan next year when nobody else wants the job, or find some retread who just wants a big pay day. In that case, Tua would be pointless here IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 6 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Side note: Really need to see Haskins after the bye. Let him play. Keenum is garbage. Colt not any better. Let Haskins play and se what you have. Is there enough potential or are you looking QB early next draft. It seemed (and still does) to me as if Callahan is prepping Haskins to start after the bye--making Colt 3rd string (not sure how much of that is injury) and making Haskins Keenum's backup, giving him reps with the starters, giving him ALL the reps with the starters when Case is taking a vet day off practice, saying he thinks DH being on the sidelines is good experience, etc...unless Case just started knocking it out of the park, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the plan all along. Callahan isn't really trying to save his job so nothing to worry about losing, and could have even discussed the plan with Bruce and Dan for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Gutty performance by the team. Positives: Played 60 minutes. While there was some plays made on them on D and some missed opportunities on Off, but it was not due to just being lazy or unprepared. SF just has better players. But they were out there competing the entire game. Good to see. Defense played with he most intensity as we have seen all yea.r The weather helped them some, but I do not think it would have been a blow out in good weather like others. The D was legit making plays against a very good and well coached offense. So call it what it is - they played more inspired. They did commit to the run - not entirely a good thing the way it played out. But will deal with the other in a minute. They did stay committed and in general it wasn't horrible. That first drive was very good despite how it ended. Nice start. Negatives: Commitment to the run to a fault - they never took advantage of the early success. Here is the reality check - 65 yds on 10 carries for 6/5 yds/carry on the first drive. 72 yds on 29 carries for 2.48 yds/carry the rest of the game. So the commitment to rush was not exactly a huge success after that first drive. Penalties - so much for being more disciplined. It is clear the opponent led to the fewer penalties. Now i am really curious how the 49ers made no mistakes but that is for a different thread. This team will need more than a few practices and some new players to stop these stupid penalties. It really hurts when you try to play a really consirvative style offense. You can't afford to make mistakes. Coaches being scared - there is being conservative and there is what we saw. They have some success on the ground early and they needed to take advantage of that. And I am not saying start tossing it all over the place. But a few of those first downs or 2nd and 6 or less they could have tired to get down field but nothing. Today was a small step forward - not enough to proclaim success for Bill C but enough to give it some more time. Incremental success. My initial thoughts are more that some players are glad Jay is gone more than any impact Bill C is having but it was a much better effort than I thought it would be. Minn will be a huge test. Could be a good opportunity. Side note: Really need to see Haskins after the bye. Let him play. Keenum is garbage. Colt not any better. Let Haskins play and se what you have. Is there enough potential or are you looking QB early next draft. Thanks for the run-down man. I'm at a total disadvantage on this one as I saw little of the game but I did get the sense from the back end I did get in for that they'd given everything and gone toe-to-toe with a far more talented team for the full duration. Your synopsis just added to that. Baby steps. Lot of pride at least to be taken from that. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Yeah a lot of pride in being shutout and putting up 77 yards passing! /s Thank god for Red Zone so I didn't have to watch this trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Garapolo looked awful today and he hasn’t looked good all year. I think they’re going to get looking for a new QB sooner rather than later. The defense is very good, they were gashed in the first drive and basically shut everything down from there. Thats about all you can glean from this game in these conditions. I think Kyle is a good coach, but that’s more based on years of evidence rather than this game. Paying Jimmy G was unwise. He stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: @goskins10 it’s pretty clear Keenum is hurt. He can’t push off the leg and he has a shoulder injury. Callahan, and probably Bruce/Dan, just are not going to let Colt on the field. And haskins is not ready. So... you make the best of what you’be got. I guess. If he is hurt then he should not play - period. And this idea Haskins is not ready - no better way to get him ready than to play him. People wanting to baby th guy. Either he is capable or he is not. Let's find out - now. The team is 1 - 6, who cares about Ws now. Time to see who will help you win. Had they won this game, Ok, maybe I see it. But Keenum was total **** to day - and if he is injured then shame on them for playing him. The best of what you got is the 15th pick of the 1st rd that you need to find out if he can play NFL football. No better way to find out than to play him. Stop molly coddling these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: No up and coming, heavily desired, innovative coaches are going to come here as long as we have this FO and their awful reputation. This place is a cesspool up top and the entire league knows it. That’s why I said total control. This means, by default, no Bruce. Dan is Dan. It I have faith in Dan’s ability to convince somebody to give it a go with enough money and authority if he wants to. Because he’s done it in the past. And not that long ago, really. He got Shanahan, who was a good get in 2010. That’s 1 coach ago. The key is Bruce. Dan would have to fire Bruce and give complete control to whoever AND have the #1 pick which they could use on Tua AND be willing to part ways with Haskins. The chances of all of these things happening are the same as the chances of getting invited to Jennifer Laurence’s wedding. But it’s possible... (well, not anymore, but you get the drift) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said: That’s why I said total control. This means, by default, no Bruce. Dan is Dan. It I have faith in Dan’s ability to convince somebody to give it a go with enough money and authority if he wants to. Because he’s done it in the past. And not that long ago, really. He got Shanahan, who was a good get in 2010. That’s 1 coach ago. The key is Bruce. Dan would have to fire Bruce and give complete control to whoever AND have the #1 pick which they could use on Tua AND be willing to part ways with Haskins. The chances of all of these things happening are the same as the chances of getting invited to Jennifer Laurence’s wedding. But it’s possible... (well, not anymore, but you get the drift) Dammit man. For a second I thought you were saying I had a chance to go to JLaw's wedding. Be careful, for goodness sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 True, I don't think the coach would necessarily care that much about Dan as long as it was in his contract that he had total control over the football side of things. But absolutely nobody decent is going to come here as long as Bruce is within 20 miles of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Califan007 said: It seemed (and still does) to me as if Callahan is prepping Haskins to start after the bye--making Colt 3rd string (not sure how much of that is injury) and making Haskins Keenum's backup, giving him reps with the starters, giving him ALL the reps with the starters when Case is taking a vet day off practice, saying he thinks DH being on the sidelines is good experience, etc...unless Case just started knocking it out of the park, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the plan all along. Callahan isn't really trying to save his job so nothing to worry about losing, and could have even discussed the plan with Bruce and Dan for all we know. This is my hope. Or after the Minn game. That is a long week. And clearly we can all agree regardless of why, Case is not knocking it out of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Califan007 said: It seemed (and still does) to me as if Callahan is prepping Haskins to start after the bye--making Colt 3rd string (not sure how much of that is injury) and making Haskins Keenum's backup, giving him reps with the starters, giving him ALL the reps with the starters when Case is taking a vet day off practice, saying he thinks DH being on the sidelines is good experience, etc...unless Case just started knocking it out of the park, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the plan all along. Callahan isn't really trying to save his job so nothing to worry about losing, and could have even discussed the plan with Bruce and Dan for all we know. Additionally, our whole run-heavy ambition is almost prepping the team for the rook. Cause when he comes in, the best thing he can get is PA deep shots and rollouts with scramble chances. And that fits his game perfectly. You could hold off on it until the Jets/bye week. But I’m not opposed to getting him some work in Buffalo either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So commitment to the run worked extremely well. They averaged 4 yards per rush for just over 100 yards rushing in the game. They attempted 11 passes. 2 or 3 of them were shovels to Simms. Commitment to the run was a recipe for success. /sarcasm This is why a lot of posters said you just couldn’t read into anything from the Dolphins. I'll watch when I get home, but theres no way this play action can work if you cant pass 18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: The key is Bruce. Dan would have to fire Bruce and give complete control to whoever AND have the #1 pick which they could use on Tua AND be willing to part ways with Haskins. Giving up on Haskins this early and drafting Tua might be final straw for me. Theyd waste him, too, without a plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: iving up on Haskins this early and drafting Tua might be final straw for me. Theyd waste him, too, without a plan If the new guy had the option for Tua AND wanted him AND thought he was potentially a generational talent, then it’s a no-brained. Just like what the cards did with Rosen. 12 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Additionally, our whole run-heavy ambition is almost prepping the team for the rook. Cause when he comes in, the best thing he can get is PA deep shots and rollouts with scramble chances. And that fits his game perfectly. You could hold off on it until the Jets/bye week. But I’m not opposed to getting him some work in Buffalo either. I like the buffalo option because you have 12 days to prepare for it and a bye week after it with a full game tape. Just makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 If Keenum is injured, Haskins or McCoy HAS to start. It's criminal to put an injured QB out there, especially when he isn't the key to winning your games. Today, I've got nothing on Callahan because the whole field was a cesspool to begin with. Keeping Keenum out there while he's injured, though, that does not reflect well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, mistertim said: True, I don't think the coach would necessarily care that much about Dan as long as it was in his contract that he had total control over the football side of things. But absolutely nobody decent is going to come here as long as Bruce is within 20 miles of the building. Yeah, that’s definitely true. Even when he gave full control to Marty and then fired him after one season, he has to pay Marty like 10 million dollars to go away. In 2000 dollars. I think Marty had something like $3-4 mil/year deal for 4 years. So let’s say Dan says “I’ll give you total control. Bruce is gone. Heres’s 5 years at $6 mil/year. Even Riley might reverse his opinion. Remember, Marty said he would never work for Dan. And then Dan showed him the money and power, and he did. Worst case, you get fired and walk away with $30 million. Its in the Dan playbook. He’s done it 3 times: Marty, Gibbs, Shanahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: If the new guy had the option for Tua AND wanted him AND thought he was potentially a generational talent, then it’s a no-brained. Just like what the cards did with Rosen. This is on the assumption the new coach knows what they are doing or the Cards are right on Murry. That pock should be traded down, we already have a QB for someone to come in and day that's bot my guy. I dont care, new coaches inherit QBs all the time. It's way too early to call the bust card, we knew he was a project, why wont we act like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: If the new guy had the option for Tua AND wanted him AND thought he was potentially a generational talent, then it’s a no-brained. Just like what the cards did with Rosen. I like the buffalo option because you have 12 days to prepare for it and a bye week after it with a full game tape. Just makes sense to me. Can we use that time to get Martin/Piersbacher up to speed? Cause Haskins deserves better than what Scherff/Moses are giving Keenum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I'm okay with trading down too but look at what Murray has done with Arizona. If you have a shot at a franchise QB you take it. But I want to see more of Haskins first. Just a bit of action of one game isn't enough to decide one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Can we use that time to get Martin/Piersbacher up to speed? Cause Haskins deserves better than what Scherff/Moses are giving Keenum. Yeah I’m not sure what’s going on with Scherff. He hasn’t been playing well. Flowers has been a really really good surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: This is on the assumption the new coach knows what they are doing or the Cards are right on Murry. That pock should be traded down, we already have a QB for someone to come in and day that's bot my guy. I dont care, new coaches inherit QBs all the time. It's way too early to call the bust card, we knew he was a project, why wont we act like it? The only way I'd be up for taking Tua if we had the #1 pick is if: 1) Haskins started the rest of the season and just stunk the joint up and, more importantly, didn't really show any improvement at all. 2) We got rid of Bruce and were able to hire a hot shot up and coming innovative coach who would be able to use Tua's talents and build around them and who would have total control over the football and personnel side of things. I don't see either of those happening, and the likelihood of us having the #1 pick is very very slim now so it probably doesn't matter anyway. And I know this may be considered blasphemy but I'm still not 100% sold on Tua being any sort of generational talent. He's obviously a very good prospect with some impressive stats but the guy has one of the most absolutely STACKED teams around him I've ever seen. He's got an excellent OL and is throwing to two soon to be 1st round WRs...quite likely both in the top 15 with one being top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I'm okay with trading down too but look at what Murray has done with Arizona. If you have a shot at a franchise QB you take it. But I want to see more of Haskins first. Just a bit of action of one game isn't enough to decide one way or another. Yes, seeing what Haskins has on very important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles mannley Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Holy **** this has nothing to do with the thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, charles mannley said: Holy **** this has nothing to do with the thread title. Threads always have tangents and then get back on topic. What's the problem? If you have something to say on the topic, post it and that will do the job as people react. 35 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: This is on the assumption the new coach knows what they are doing or the Cards are right on Murry. That pock should be traded down, we already have a QB for someone to come in and day that's bot my guy. I dont care, new coaches inherit QBs all the time. It's way too early to call the bust card, we knew he was a project, why wont we act like it? It doesn't matter. If the HC you hire thinks a top QB prospect is his guy more than Haskins, you just go with it and call it spilled milk. It's the right thing to do rather than restricting the pool of potential coaches down to those who will buy in, or lie and say they've bought in, on Haskins. It doesn't matter if the Cardinals end up getting it wrong with Murray (he clearly already looks better imo), the process was good if that's who Kingsbury wanted, and Kingsbury was the guy they thought could take them to the SB eventually. Yes, it would be a waste. Yes, it would not necessarily be a true commentary on what Haskins is capable of. But it doesn't matter because in the long run, good process leads to good results. And hiring a coach just because he says he likes Haskins is not good process, regardless of how Haskins turns out. None of this even requires Haskins to be a bust. If he flashes big time the rest of the season I bet he becomes one of the reasons certain candidates actually want to take the job--but we'll have to see how he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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