Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Dolphins

[KDawg]

Going to do this a little different... Going to be mostly short takes. I'll expand in the comments later if people want:

 

Winning - Always nice to get a win. Forget draft position here, though, this win was hollow. If the Redskins weren't a terrible football team, no one here would be satisfied with this win. The players wouldn't be satisfied, the coaches wouldn't be satisfied and the front office wouldn't be satisfied. It was an ugly, ugly win. But it was a win, and it's always nice not to go down in history as the worst team ever. Obviously, there are other issues that stem from the win, but I'm not a believer in "tanking" (in the sense of players and coaches losing on purpose, because, quite frankly, if that happens they shouldn't be coaching football).

 

Bill Callahan - Literally the exact same as Jay Gruden. Clock management was poor. Half time adjustments were null. There was one shining difference, though, and it was making sure Adrian Peterson was fed the ball over and over again. Granted, Miami has the worst run defense in football. But you have to take advantage of an opponent's weakness, and I'm a big fan of smash mouth football. I just don't think head coach is or was the problem with this football team, but it's not exactly turning it around either.

 

Terry McLaurin - The guy is an absolute stud. Nothing more to say.

 

Adrian Peterson - Still some gas left.

 

Montez Sweat - Showed up today. That pass knock down on the screen early in the game was a fantastic play. It looks like he's getting good at reading screen and getting in position to make plays. 

 

Landon Collins - Heartbeat of the defense. All over the field. 

 

Greg Manusky - What goes on in the second half of games? I'll need to deep dive into this some more, but the defense goes from being aggressive in the first half of this game to sitting back and letting Fitzmagic pick the team apart.

 

Josh Rosen - Not our guy, but holy cow. Arizona made a great move in moving on from him. They saw their rookie QB wasn't the answer, had the top pick in the draft, and they made a move. And it was a major positive swing for them. They got beat up for it, but they made the right call. 

 

Case Keenum - I'm not sure what happened to Keenum and the offense that we saw in week 1 until now. They weren't juggernauts by any stretch, but they looked competent. McLaurin gives them hope at all times, but it seems like Case is a guy who's confidence rides with the last game and ebbs and flows throughout the season. He's probably the Skins best quarterback right now, but he needs to be better.

 

Miami going for 2 - I don't criticize the move. Your team is oh-fer. You may not be in position to win another game. Don't put the game in the hands of the coin toss. Go for it. Best case? Well, there's two best cases... 1) You win despite the front office. 2) You lose and keep draft position. But that play call... that was... something?

 

Injuries - They keep piling up. And some people will be glad that the talent level is taking a hit as it helps with draft position. Others will be in between where they aren't angry about it because of the draft position and others will be upset because it hurts our chances to win football games. But this, again, is one of the biggest problems with this roster. The team is NOT void of talent. But it's certainly lacking healthy talent across the board in key roles. Some blame the training staff. I'm not one of those people. I think the problem stems from scouting, and thus the general manager of the football team and their personnel decisions. 

 

Josh Norman - The cushion is interesting. It's almost like he's afraid he's going to get beat and he's playing with no confidence. Norman is a guy who operates on swagger. When he has it he's a force. When he doesn't he's... not. 

 

Quinton Dunbar - He's getting healthy and it's awesome. Dunbar is a guy who I thought was derailed by injuries, but he's showing that he's got some ability still. He's exciting and one of the better young players on the roster and a tremendous building block moving forward. 

 

Allen/Payne/Ion - I like our interior defensive line (I include Ion in that group). They are hard nosed, aggressive, old school ass kickers.

 

Perspective - This win was a start for the team. But it was an ugly and hollow start. They'll need to be much better to hang with the teams remaining on the schedule. 

 

Studs:

 

Terry McLaurin - ***

Quiton Dunbar - **

Adrian Peterson - *

 

Duds:

 

Bruce Allen -

Josh Norman -

Greg Manusky -

 

Season Totals:

Terry McLaurin - 11x*

Tress Way - 7x*

Daron Payne - 3x*

Steven Simms - 2x*

Inside LBs - 2x*

Paul Richardson - 2x*

Adrian Peterson - 1x*

Vernon Davis, Keenum, fans who left - 1x*

Quinton Dunbar - 1x  (secondary as a whole was 3 :(, his individual performance vs. Miami pushes him away from that)

Injuries - 2x 

Nicholson - 2x  

Right Side of OL/Callahan - 3x

Secondary as a whole minus Collins)- 3x

Josh Norman - 6x

Greg Manusky - 7x

Jay Gruden -8x

Bruce Allen -13x

 

 

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I actually noticed a big change in Callahan/ O'Connel to Gruden in a couple of facets that are imperative for building on Coach. 

 

But I'm still looking back over some figures to highlight the swing further. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

I actually noticed a big change in Callahan/ O'Connel to Gruden in a couple of facets that are imperative for building on Coach. 

 

But I'm still looking back over some figures to highlight the swing further. 

 

Hail. 

I didn’t. I saw extremely poor clock management. That was something that jumped out. That sequence when they let the clock go from 52 seconds to 15 seconds at the end of the first half was abysmal. 
 

Throwing the ball before the two minute warning and giving the Dolphins what amounted to another timeout was abysmal. 
 

Gruden made similar errors in clock management. Everyone jumped on him for it. Callahan doesn’t get a pass because he ran the football more.

 

Im not saying Callahan can’t help turn things from awful to bad but not all-time bad levels. I’m not saying his approach can’t make a difference to the franchise. I’m just calling a spade a spade here. We criticize one we need to criticize the other.

[Mr. Sinister]

Really is boggling my mind just how good Terry is. If he was in the AFC he'd be looking at a Pro Bowl bid

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I didn’t. I saw extremely poor clock management. That was something that jumped out. That sequence when they let the clock go from 52 seconds to 15 seconds at the end of the first half was abysmal. 
 

Throwing the ball before the two minute warning and giving the Dolphins what amounted to another timeout was abysmal. 
 

Gruden made similar errors in clock management. Everyone jumped on him for it. Callahan doesn’t get a pass because he ran the football more.

 

Im not saying Callahan can’t help turn things from awful to bad but not all-time bad levels. I’m not saying his approach can’t make a difference to the franchise. I’m just calling a spade a spade here. We criticize one we need to criticize the other.

 

As Sheehan is talking about on air right now, sitting on a time out right before half, when they were close to mid field, bizarre.    I wasn't counting the plays so maybe its a false impression on my end but watching the game it seemed like count Callahan in the school of run on first down. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As Sheehan is talking about on air right now, sitting on a time out right before half, when they were close to mid field, bizarre.    I wasn't counting the plays so maybe its a false impression on my end but watching the game it seemed like count Callahan in the school of run on first down. 

1

 

Which has lead to WAY shorter/ more manageable third downs. Something we've been foreign to this year. 

 

The next development is improving on converting those. 

 

Hail. 

[bakedtater1]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Really is boggling my mind just how good Terry is. If he was in the AFC he'd be looking at a Pro Bowl bid

Though I despise the pro bowl these days..terrymthegem will be the only skin there this year 

[fearlessNelms]

The D actually looked good for 3 quarters while getting steady pressure on the QB, guys swarming to the ball and getting some big int's. Whether that was more a function of playing the Dolphins and Josh Rosen just being terrible or our D playing well is up for debate. I say that because once Fitzpatrick came in at the start of the 4th quarter, our D looked like it's old self while giving up two 4th quarter TD's and nearly blowing a game we were in complete control of when Rosen was playing QB.

My feeling is that if Fitzpatrick started the game or even came in a bit sooner, the result would've been different and we'd be 0-6 right now. But I digress and will gladly take the win.

 

One other thought, this Paul Richardson is terrible and I've seen enough of him. You would think with McLaurin's emergence as a top WR, that it would benefit Richardson and he would be getting a lot of targets. That's not happening, not at all! I think the dude is lazy and his route running is awful. He appears to be very soft, as every time he gets hit he looks like he wants out of the game. And his body language just wreaks of "I don't give a hoot, just give me my money". I seriously question the guys effort out there and you can chalk him up as another horrible free agent signing.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I hated the end of half decisions.  The coaches just gave up trying and wanted to go into the locker room, they were content with the lead.  67 seconds and a timeout left.  When that happened it felt like the coaches either didn't care, or lacked any kind of confidence in the offense.

 

They actually huddled and drained clock.  Really?  Come on, Rosen isn't moving the ball, who cares if he gets it back.  Their inaction angered me.

 

Rosen is who the analysts and film watchers said he was.  Rosen is not who the internet hype and media thought he was.  That guy is a bust.  Miami spent a 2nd rounder to figure that out and I can't blame them for that.  I still remember months of everyone assuming we were going to trade #15 overall for Rosen.

 

We don't have a lot of talent on offense.  Scary Terry is the best and it's not even close for a second best.  It's hard to judge o-line while you're watching the game, but they seem "ok".

 

Sprinkle is slowly developing, he seems like he could be a solid piece of a future team.  Didn't watch the new TE Hentges or whatever his name is.

 

Trey Quinn doesn't have quite enough speed, size, or moves to separate from man.  We need some QB audibles when they identify zone to let him work against that.  That's where his bread and butter is at the moment.

 

I think WR blocking has improved a bit.  Harmon helps there, but right now that's about it for his contribution.  He's the new Niles Paul.  He SHOULD be a big slot for us, someone who can downblock on run plays surprisingly well.  He's not talented enough to be an X or Y receiver.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Which has lead to WAY shorter/ more manageable third downs. Something we've been foreign to this year. 

 

The next development is improving on converting those. 

 

Hail. 

 

The runs on first down is something he has in common with Jay.   My two main criticisms of Jay's play calling were the predictable runs on first down and poor clock management -- alas Callahan seemed to be in the same school on those fronts so I was agreeing with Kdwag's   point.

 

I am not trying to dampen you digging Callahan.  I hope you end up right.  😀  If right means playoffs but not if it means 5-11 and out of the running for an elite player like Chase Young..   It was a "meh" debut for me.  didn't love it.  didn't hate it.  I agree with much of what Brewer said here below.  Having said that, it's just one game so I think everyone needs time.     And I don't think Callahan has a great roster to work with to say the least. 

 

If I had to sum up what i liked about his play calling (O'Connell), too.  It would be just really one thing, Adrian Peterson.  Love Peterson.  It was very 2018.  I am typically not a run over pass kind of guy but considering how awful Keenum has looked -- I don't think they have a choice.  Keenum was awful against the worst defense in the NFL who was missing their best corner to boot.   I genuinely thought they could steam roll a team like the Dolphins but the fact it was a nip and tuck game made me realize we aren't very good.   And I don't put that on Callahan. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-redskins-beat-the-dolphins-but-there-are-no-winners-here/2019/10/13/8e76befe-edf5-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html

MIAMI GARDENS, Fla. — Good news (or something like that): The Washington Redskins are not the worst team in the NFL. To be exact, they are one point and two yards better than the Miami Dolphins. They remain bad and quite hazardous to your eyes, but as long as the Dolphins reside in tank mode, they are blocked from reaching the bottom of despair.

 

I’m not sure whether it qualifies as comforting to realize, in nail-gnawing victory, that you’re even closer to absolute misery than imagined. The Dolphins, who have traded away their best players over the past six weeks, aren’t really trying to win. Consider them effortlessly terrible. The Redskins, on the other hand, exerted themselves quite a bit in losing their first five games. Consider them diligently terrible. It’s hard to know which is better (or worse): To execute a ****amamie losing plan, or to stumble into hopelessness?

 

Decide for yourself. But in a 17-16 victory Sunday, Washington survived the humiliation of falling to an opponent that probably would have shed tears during the postgame prayer circle if it had won. To end a week that started with the firing of Coach Jay Gruden, Washington improved to 1-5 in this lost season. Miami, which hadn’t come within 20 points of victory in its previous four games, actually improved its record, too. At 0-5, it plods on a long journey toward clinching the No. 1 pick in the 2020 draft.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Aside from running WAY more on first down yesterday, to far greater effect, with a FAR more balanced approach on second down off of that to the previous 5 games. 

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Aside from running WAY more on first down yesterday, to far greater effect, with a FAR more balanced approach on second down off of that to the previous 5 games. 

 

Hail. 

 

I haven't charted their plays but for me running even more than Jay did on first down isn't a bonus for me.  But saw online they had a phase where they were 2 for 11 on 3rd down.  So am guessing 2nd down was their sweet spot, then.  The Dolphins were giving up 175 yards on the ground, about 300 yards in the air and 40 points a game, previously  Their defense was historically bad.  The Redskins offense wasn't anything to write home about yesterday -- but I don't put that on Callahan I put it on Keenum. 

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Aside from running WAY more on first down yesterday, to far greater effect, with a FAR more balanced approach on second down off of that to the previous 5 games. 

 

Hail. 

I think you’re off base here.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/are-redskins-running-ball-too-much-first-down%3famp

 

that article is from last season...

 

But the Redskins have been a VERY run heavy team on first down. It was one of the biggest complaints people had with Gruden.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

 

This indicates they Skins fell off the pace a little this year, but their last game was in line with their last three this season. 
 

And running on first down more often against a poor rush defense is a no brainer. 
 

Callahan deserves some time to see if his plan to run more total attempts works, absolutely. But I don’t think he’s as different from Gruden as you do.

[skinsmarydu]

22 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Though I despise the pro bowl these days..terrymthegem will be the only skin there this year 

Don't forget Tress. (I laugh about it every year.)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think you’re off base here.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/are-redskins-running-ball-too-much-first-down%3famp

 

that article is from last season...

 

But the Redskins have been a VERY run heavy team on first down. It was one of the biggest complaints people had with Gruden.

 

This season. there was a BIG swing yesterday in both first and second down play calling. And the difference it made on third down manageability. Even if those weren't converted. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

This season. there was a BIG swing yesterday in both first and second down play calling. And the difference it made on third down manageability. Even if those weren't converted. 

 

Hail. 

I edited the above with another article.

 

If there was a swing I’d say it was on second down moreso than first. 
 

We’ll see. He deserves some time to see if he does do things dramatically different. That much I agree with. But playing Miami you almost have to run. Or pass. Or do whatever... as they have a historically awful D statistically.

[kingdaddy]

To your point about Rosen, we MUST find out about Haskins even at the expense of winning games. The Cardinals did it right and will benefit for years, possibly saving their franchise for a long, long time. If the Steelers can run out an undrafted rookie free agent to start then we should be able to get Dwayne ready enough to play too.

- I think Miami tanked that two point conversion on purpose. The play call was so bad and the execution even worse. 

- We should've signed Fitzmagic over trading for Keenum. Fitzmagic is a straight out gunslinger who may have been better for Dwayne to play behind than Keenum. Just a thought there.

- Moving forward, the defense needs to stay aggressive...what's the harm, we know that if we play it safe it's a slow death rather than a quick one.

- There are teams out there that need offensive line and secondary help. Why are we not selling vets? 

- I would play Sims Jr. in the slot more over Trey Quinn, just because of his speed. 

- PRich needs to be a salary cap cut this off-season. Play the kids over him. That was a terrible signing.

- If we're going to commit to running the ball, may as well be DH handing the ball off while putting a select group of passing plays in for him to master.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I edited the above with another article.

 

If there was a swing I’d say it was on second down moreso than first. 
 

We’ll see. He deserves some time to see if he does do things dramatically different. That much I agree with. But playing Miami you almost have to run. Or pass. Or do whatever... as they have a historically awful D statistically.

 

Aside from you only being able to play what's in front of you, and setting out trying to lay down a new identity for this ball club, let me run through the figures and I'll add weight to that. 

 

Hail. 

[veteranskinsfan]

For the first time ever I did not watch the game.  Enjoyed the outdoors and getting exercise and not being consumed by how badly this team plays and how

inconsistent the play is from quarter to quarter.  Bought a Washington Nationals baseball hat and watch the baseball playoff game to get my sports fix.

[SemperFi Skins]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 

- I think Miami tanked that two point conversion on purpose. The play call was so bad and the execution even worse. 

 

 

I said the exact same thing.... Ross made a call down to the field, no doubt in my mind.

[JSSkinz]

When healthy Dunny is a really solid option at CB 2, he was ranked very highly last year until he got the injury so with him its about staying healthy and if that can happpen then we have a solid guy going forward who is on the cheap, just need to add a stud CB1.

 

Allen had a solid performance and Collins played really well.  SDH also showed well on D.

 

Terry is nasty, too bad he dropped that one, he probably would have had a solid chance to score.

 

AP still looks as good as half the starting RB's in the league, I can't believe how hard he runs at his age with the pounding he has taken.

 

Keenum is awful, watching him is painful and I hope we can quickly wrap up a few more losses so we don't have to see him miss open WR's on those mid rage routes, let the rookie miss those, I can deal with that.

 

I thought we were more disciplined yesterday, we didn't seem to have those snowball moments where we do several dumb things in succession.

 

I'm not a fan of Trey Quinn after finally getting a chance to watch him play a few games.  He has no playmaking ability, his focus seems to be making sure he doesn't get hit.

 

[No Excuses]

The biggest disappointment in the game was Keenum not being picked off for six near the end of the game, on what I think was the first pass ever attempted in NFL history.
 

Most undeserving W of all time. Watching the Jets against the Cowboys and the Steelers 3rd string QB against the chargers.... we and the Dolphins are in a league of our own. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

This team is lucky that Fitzpatrick didn't start and play the whole game.  Had he played the whole game, I think we'd have lost.  As soon as he came in, they moved the ball rather effortlessly.  

 

Glad to see that the D did what it should have done against a terrible QB in Rosen.  And we were able to run it with AP effectively but given the opposition I'm not sure we should expect that from here on out.

 

Was happy to see a win, but like I said....Miami didn't start with their best option to win. 

 

EDIT:  McLaurin is the only reason to watch this team right now.  As much as I'm enjoying him, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop because...well, we just can't have nice things.

[RandyHolt]

If we want to win

 

Unleash the D over and over, don't go halves at a time of playing soft. Attack the QB.

Promote Harmon and demote PRich. He could probably stand to benefit from managed snaps anyways.  Groom the future. Get Cam some snaps.

Give Stevie Sims more of Quinn's reps in patterns that he cannot screw up. At minimum, let him return punts. 

It was nice to see OCKOC copy some of the misdirection deception fakes at the snap, that we see around the league now.  More of that. Before, it was a fake jet sweep or 2 a game.

 

 

 

 

[profusion]

I don't feel like I can evaluate the Skins after this one, since they were playing a JV squad. 

 

The fourth quarter was an embarrassment.

 

The win will buy Keenum one more week, but that should really be it. Let's see what the kid's got.