mistertim Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, scstand said: Duh! why do you think so many of us are scratching our heads as to why he checked it down after 2 seconds even after coaching staff told him this ball needed to be endzone or proximity. another example of refusing coaching and doing it his way.....QB needs to extend this play period and give your guy a chance. he had terry breaking into a small open window behind his check down if he extends play and gives it a chance. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious if we have any All-22 that shows Terry open? And let's also be honest here...if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs in the end zone and it was picked off we'd have been howling even louder than when he checked it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Pretty sure Lock ranks right around where Haskins does this season in PFF grade, and was worse last year. Really, all that would have given us was our extra 2nd round pick back this year, but having Fitz probably would have prevented us from finishing poorly enough to draft Chase Young this year. We likely would have ended up with either Andrew Thomas or Isaiah Simmons. I prefer the path we took. I'm not saying Lock/Fitz was/wasn't the right move. It was what I was thinking at the time. Despite his poor college accuracy, I liked the years of experience, the great arm and the mobility. I also felt he was hurt by a lack of weapons his final year. If you were to put a poll up, I guarantee most people on this board would trade Haskins for Lock straight up if they could. Would it mean missing out on Chase? Maybe but we may not be looking for the next QB solution in 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, mistertim said: I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious if we have any All-22 that shows Terry open? And let's also be honest here...if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs in the end zone and it was picked off we'd have been howling even louder than when he checked it down. SIP posted it probably 650's page count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Years and years ago, back before 2600 baud modems (although not like decades before), I was in college and junior year I took macroeconomics 101 (econ major track 101). I thought I knew the stuff so well I rarely came to class (though one of those times I wrote a song). First midterm = C+. Yeah, I was looking at going the Kurt Warner route (pre-football), you know, stockroom at Piggly Wiggly). Seriously. I was in my junior year in college and I'd still not come close to what I was capable of. I sat myself down and said, ok, let's start with the big picture and then break it down to see if I can grok the essence of what's going on. I did. It wasn't memorizing formulas; it was getting to understand the reason for the formulas, what they were supposed to accomplish, etc. The light bulb went on and stayed on. My handwriting (i.e., mechanics) remained shoddy, but I had mastered the subject and I could overcome my limitations well enough to win the final exam. This is what needs to happen to Haskins. Then I transferred to a new team with a new system which I didn't master because of my extracurriculars, but I eked out enough wins to retire from college and move on to my second career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, mistertim said: I found Rivera's rationale somewhat odd as well. I'm curious if the All-22 shows anyone even open in the end zone. If not, would RR have been happier if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs into the end zone and possibly been intercepted? I guess it wouldn't really have mattered given the outcome of the play anyway. There's been mention that Haskins had a goal of not throwing INTs. Not sure if it was a directive from coaches. Seems like the directive on the 4th down play was to just chuck it into the endzone with Balt's zone D camped out on the goal line. If it was the coaches that told him to protect the ball (and had him set the goal of no turnovers), they literally put him in a no win situation. Sensai Ron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, method man said: If you were to put a poll up, I guarantee most people on this board would trade Haskins for Lock straight up if they could. Would it mean missing out on Chase? Maybe but we may not be looking for the next QB solution in 2021 Which shows most fans just want the shiny new object. Lock has been a worse QB than Haskins, surrounded by better weapons. It's sad that most would probably do that trade, and we'd be in a worse position in a franchise for it, especially if it meant losing out on Chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, mistertim said: Why are we using a W-L record for a QB instead of his stats? Why can't we admit that Brees wasn't a good QB for his first couple of years starting AND that it's also not necessarily likely that him turning it around means Haskins will? His first two seasons starting Brees had a 59% completion rate, about a 72 QB rating, and 28 TDs to 31 INTs. And he arguably regressed noticeably from his first to second year starting. He wasn't the worst QB in the NFL but he was average to poor. Then in his 3rd year the light seemingly came on and he hasn't looked back since. Again, admitting that Brees wasn't very good his first two seasons starting doesn't somehow mean that Haskins will turn out like Brees. I seriously doubt he will, unfortunately. IMO I just don't think he has that internal drive that great QBs like Brees have to be great and to work incredibly hard to do so. I watched Brees early in his career. He was orders of magnitude better than Haskins with the eye test. Haskins is trash period. A lot of prospects are. He will never amount to anything. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 This is a frustrating situation because my eyes tell me after 24 years of watching football that Haskins isn't good enough, that he isn't particularly good at all. But I also agree that he's not been placed in a position to succeed and probably got the hook too quickly considering the low stakes of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, Bacon said: This is a frustrating situation because my eyes tell me after 24 years of watching football that Haskins isn't good enough, that he isn't particularly good at all. But I also agree that he's not been placed in a position to succeed and probably got the hook too quickly considering the low stakes of the season. I think it's likely that it's both. Haskins isn't good enough (or, more to the point, he has all the talent necessary, but not that maniacal internal drive and work ethic that most great NFL QBs have) AND that he also has been in a bad situation to succeed from the get-go. If you add those two together, it's probably not going to end well unfortunately. A guy in a bad situation who doesn't have that super crazy internal drive to succeed and be great is almost certain to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, mistertim said: I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious if we have any All-22 that shows Terry open? And let's also be honest here...if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs in the end zone and it was picked off we'd have been howling even louder than when he checked it down. I was wrong, its on page 616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, mistertim said: And let's also be honest here...if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs in the end zone and it was picked off we'd have been howling even louder than when he checked it down. Disagree on this. The only option is to put it in the end zone for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: He was 6-1 in his first 7 starts. He regressed after that a bit and went back and forth with Doug Flutie starting. No one can legitimately compare Haskins to Brees if you want any semblance of credibility. The level of absurdity is mind boggling. Conveniently you only put up his W/L in his first few years in San Diego without presenting any other numbers because they don’t back your argument but anyways...You might want to unboggle your mind is if you interpreted a comparison between Haskins and Brees in my post. I wonder if there were any Saints fans saying Brees was a bust the second he signed. Or is it the second he landed taking the cost of gasing up the plane into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said: You might want to unboggle your mind is if you interpreted a comparison between Haskins and Brees in my post. I wonder if there were any Saints fans saying Brees was a bust the second he signed. Or is it the second he landed taking the cost of gasing up the plane into account? He was a Pro Bowl player the year before. Questions about his shoulder but nothing more. My mind is perfectly fine. You are the one now literally comparing Saints Drew Brees to Haskins. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, megared said: If it was the coaches that told him to protect the ball (and had him set the goal of no turnovers), they literally put him in a no win situation. Sensai Ron... How is turning it over on downs 'protecting the ball'? C'mon man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Disagree on this. The only option is to put it in the end zone for better or worse. Where could he have gone? The only two receivers near the endzone inexplicably (or by design) are running to the same spot, with like 5 defenders in the immediate area. Receiver on the left is bracketed by two defenders. The only place he could've gone and followed Ron's directions had like zero chance of success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, scstand said: I was wrong, its on page 616 I mean...I'd need to watch the full replay but just from that screenshot I see 2 receivers in the end zone surrounded by 5 defenders. I think that play was almost a no-win situation. We only have 1 real receiving threat and the Ravens knew by the down and distance that we had no choice but to try for the end zone so they just sat on it. So sure, he could have just slung it in there in between all those guys and hoped Terry made a play, but it's still a **** situation. 3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Disagree on this. The only option is to put it in the end zone for better or worse. I agree that in theory it's better to shoot for the end zone. But you know as well as I do that in the game day thread people would have absolutely blasted Haskins for making a reckless and stupid throw if it had been intercepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Jared Goff is the 4th highest rated QB this season, per PFF. Letting KOC get away could possibly be Rivera's biggest misstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, mistertim said: I mean...I'd need to watch the full replay but just from that screenshot I see 2 receivers in the end zone surrounded by 5 defenders. I think that play was almost a no-win situation. We only have 1 real receiving threat and the Ravens knew by the down and distance that we had no choice but to try for the end zone so they just sat on it. So sure, he could have just slung it in there in between all those guys and hoped Terry made a play, but it's still a **** situation. Is Rivera a Star Trek fan? Maybe it was his Kobayashi Maru? I think the main issue is Haskins immediately goes to the check down that has next to no chance of succeeding (about the only way is if all 6 defenders ran into each other and fell over). He have that play no chance to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: He was a Pro Bowl player the year before. Questions about his shoulder but nothing more. My mind is perfectly fine. You are the one now literally comparing Saints Drew Brees to Haskins. Wow. Meanwhile on earth my post simply reads Brees wasn’t great in his first few years in San Diego before Rivers was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, HTTRDynasty said: Jared Goff is the 4th highest rated QB this season, per PFF. Letting KOC get away could possibly be Rivera's biggest misstep. By the way, Goff ranked 34th out of 34 in his rookie year. Another example of a QB who started off terribly, but improved in a franchise committed to their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Is Rivera a Star Trek fan? Maybe it was his Kobayashi Maru? I think the main issue is Haskins immediately goes to the check down that has next to no chance of succeeding (about the only way is if all 6 defenders ran into each other and fell over). He have that play no chance to succeed. So what you're saying is Haskins should have rigged it by secretly tying all of the defenders' shoelaces together before the snap. That would have been EPIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 so it looks like Terry is the one right on the line right? I see two Ravens in between him and Haskins who maybe could have jumped it and two close behind him. I don't consider him open at all I agree with Cooley about this being a dumbass play to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, mistertim said: So what you're saying is Haskins should have rigged it by secretly tying all of the defenders' shoelaces together before the snap. That would have been EPIC. That's the type of out-of-the-box thinking we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, mistertim said: I found Rivera's rationale somewhat odd as well. I'm curious if the All-22 shows anyone even open in the end zone. If not, would RR have been happier if Haskins had just thrown it up for grabs into the end zone and possibly been intercepted? I guess it wouldn't really have mattered given the outcome of the play anyway. Why do I even need to know this, you know? Keep that stuff in house. Not how you handle player related stuff, especially at the QB spot. Very ego driven type behavior to me, which is potentially terrifying, due to the immense power he has. Some definite confirmation bias going on for me, due to being worried when the hire was made about how Ron would manage great power in an organization. It takes a supremely unique and talent individual to balance all that successfully and not get in his own way. No conclusions will be made, but as I did with Haskins, I’m leaning negative in regards to Ron at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, mistertim said: I mean...I'd need to watch the full replay but just from that screenshot I see 2 receivers in the end zone surrounded by 5 defenders. I think that play was almost a no-win situation. We only have 1 real receiving threat and the Ravens knew by the down and distance that we had no choice but to try for the end zone so they just sat on it. So sure, he could have just slung it in there in between all those guys and hoped Terry made a play, but it's still a **** situation. I agree that in theory it's better to shoot for the end zone. But you know as well as I do that in the game day thread people would have absolutely blasted Haskins for making a reckless and stupid throw if it had been intercepted. Terry is breaking across behind the defender eyeing check down, dwayne needs to extend this play, heck ifg he slides left he has a small window to throw with a little air to terry breaking across and behind to front corner of endzone. heck he could even extend this out to his right by scrambling but we know he never scrambles right, he always goes left for some strange reason. Either way he needs to extend this play, seize the moment and throw it with intensions of scoring. if its picked who cares we give them ball at 25 versus the 8 or there abouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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