FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[ntotoro]

If he really did stiff Lombardi not once, but twice...

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

And this is what Josh Allen looked like his last two years, before becoming the 4th leading MVP candidate this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good for Josh Allen to improve, but we're talking about Dwayne Haskins here

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

And this is what Josh Allen looked like his last two years, before becoming the 4th leading MVP candidate this year.

 

 

It doesn’t take long for someone to use Josh Allen as a totally poor example. Happens a few times a week. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

And this is what Josh Allen looked like his last two years, before becoming the 4th leading MVP candidate this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So because Josh Allen is lighting it up, that means Haskins will?  

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I watched the whole video, obviously. 
 

I agree with his entire analysis, to be honest. 
 

Guy knows football.

 

And, by the way, I know you never read full posts but... I’ve been on the give him more time wagon all season long, despite my opinion his play was poor. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that I believe his play, though poor, would allow him for more playing time.

 

What that doesn’t account for, though, is his maturity missteps. And his inability to listen to the coaches. His disrespect towards veterans. His social media presence, including his agent’s.

 

Rivera made a decision based on what he has seen from inside the building. You don’t like it. Therefore you are posting every opinion against it, rooted in reason, objective analysis or otherwise. 
 

It seems to me that you are a fan of Dwayne Haskins and not the WFT. That’s cool. I wish you the best when he arrives on another team. The guy deserves a true reset to his career. Hope he, and you, get the chance, Mufasa.

 

Ahhh, so you ignore my point, as always.  I posted a quote from a very respected former personnel man in the media, and you dismissed it since it came from me.  Then you posted O'Sullivan's video as a counter-argument.  I point out O'Sullivan didn't even have a strong preference for Haskins' getting benched, and you turn to personal attacks questioning my fanhood.  Can't say I'm surprised.

 

You've been riding my jock all year.  You seem to be the one with the obsession, not me.

 

[Est.1974]

That’s one ugly highlight, I mean lowlight, real. 
 

McKissic and Gibson must be thrilled we’ve made the change. Some pile of yardage missed out through 4 games on far from difficult plays/passes.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Daniel Jeremiah is in perfect position to evaluate what Haskins does during games.

 

He has absolutely no first hand knowledge of what Haskins is doing during the week; how early he comes to work, his understanding of the playbook, his resistance or openness to change, how he gets along with his teammates, his relationship with his coaches, and a thousand other things that are relevant to his long term success.

 

The decision to bench Dwayne surely factored in his on field results but it was more about what he does during the week.

[GOATFrerotte]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

That’s one ugly highlight, I mean lowlight, real. 
 

McKissic and Gibson must be thrilled we’ve made the change. Some pile of yardage missed out through 4 games on far from difficult plays/passes.

 

Oh for sure, they're going to be thrilled, and the receivers are going to be thrilled to have a qb that can actually extend a play. Allen just has to limit turnovers, otherwise I have no doubt he can make the throws to move the team. 

[Est.1974]

Just now, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

The decision to bench Dwayne surely factored in his on field results but it was more about what he does during the week.

or more like what he doesn’t do during the week.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yeah. I know. Crazy. A former NFL QB versus a former front office guy. One with evidence that they’ve watched the team/Haskins. One without. I’m way out on the ledge here.

 

The media type opinions on Haskins are so all over the place.  That to me all of that stuff is a wash.  Not that it matters.

 

 Kiper in his podcast last year, talked Haskins as a bust.  Some of the PFF guys (including recently) said his numbers indicates bust, one dude likes him there.  I posted the scouts take of Haskins from McGinn's report last year.  Some scouts liked him, some didn't -- more actually didn't.  I recall the draft geek report (I think it was Miller?) who said he discovered the media types were much higher on Haskins then personnel people he spoke to.  Banner said asking around many teams had a third round grade.  Lombardi said he wasn't high on him and others he talked to, ditto.  Then you got Casserly, Orlovsky, Brooks, Reddick who loved him.  Cooley didn't think much of him.  We can go on and on.  

 

My point is if we want to find personnel people, ex-Qbs, media talking heads on Haskins we can find any opinion under the sun.  Great.  Bust. "Meh'.  Not that different witth Daniel Jones, there is no consensus because IMO his talent doesn't jump off the page in such a heavy handed way where most are going to agree.

 

So if people want to find media types to back their views on Haskins pro or con, they can find whatever material they want.

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/02/film-room-scouting-report-dwayne-haskins-ohio-state

 

COACH: Todd Haley
Former Head Coach, Kansas City Chiefs; Offensive Coordinator, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals

Strengths: Size, short accuracy, quick release, quick passing game, level of competition, protects the ball.

Weaknesses: Deep accuracy, don’t see many NFL throws, one-year starter, doesn’t see coverage, all shotgun, average athlete, can’t extend plays, minus runner, below-average drops/footwork

Player Comp: Jacoby Brissett.

Ideal landing spot: A west coast offense—progression passing game

Can he be a starter in 2019?: I would bet against him starting early. He had arguably best offensive line in college football, and a good supporting cast with a proven system. I believe the jump to the NFL will be a big one for him and he will be game manager-type early. I just didn’t see enough NFL throws on tape. And so much success was created by the system. He has shown the baseline skill set to be a successful one-year starter in college against a high level of competition, he shows very good short accuracy and the ability to be a progression passer. However he lacks downfield accuracy on tape and I don’t see him make many NFL throws. So it will take time and development.

 

QUARTERBACK: Bruce Gradkowski
Former Quarterback, Pittsburgh Steelers, Cincinnati Bengals, Oakland Raiders, Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Strengths: He looks the part and by all accounts has great leadership qualities. He has a presence about him when you pop on the film. Big, strong frame that can stand in the pocket and take hits. Haskins does a good job getting the ball to where it should go. He understands the game and you can see the command he has of the offense on the field. Accurate on short and intermediate throws and demonstrates a strong, powerful arm.

Weaknesses: He doesn’t have a ton of experience. This doesn’t mean he won’t be successful but it’s something coaches should think about if they are looking for a day one starter. Haskins could do a better job on following through. He uses all arm when he throws—it will benefit him to learn how to use his legs, rhythm, and timing to elevate his throwing power and accuracy. He looks heavy-footed in the pocket. If the pocket is clean, he can make all the throws necessary, but I worry about his accuracy when the pocket starts to collapse on him. I also lack confidence in his escapability when things break down. He is able to get through his progressions but seems to be a little late at times. He has a tendency to wait and make sure he sees the receiver open rather than anticipate the open window. I’ve watched too many instances of his deep ball hanging in the air and receivers waiting on the football. His delivery seems to change at times and isn’t consistent.

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Good for Josh Allen to improve, but we're talking about Dwayne Haskins here

 

Yup.  Just like Josh Allen was being talked about last year.  But Allen had more than 4 games to learn his system and make his footwork tie to his eyes instinctually.  Much longer than Haskins.

 

If you'll recall, it took Haskins time for his accuracy to adjust in the previous system as well, but once he became comfortable at the end of the year, his accuracy dramatically improved.  We'll never know if that would have happened this year as well.

[Daniel.redskins]

Josh Allen can scramble and has pocket awareness.  People who post his rookie stats always leave off his rushing numbers. 

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yup.  Just like Josh Allen was being talked about last year.  But Allen had more than 4 games to learn his system and make his footwork tie to his eyes instinctually.  Much longer than Haskins.

 

If you'll recall, it took Haskins time for his accuracy to adjust in the previous system as well, but once he became comfortable at the end of the year, his accuracy dramatically improved.  We'll never know if that would have happened this year as well.

 

Based on your logic, every qb if given a chance will turn out like josh allen.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Ahhh, so you ignore my point, as always.  I posted a quote from a very respected former personnel man in the media, and you dismissed it since it came from me.  Then you posted O'Sullivan's video as a counter-argument.  I point out O'Sullivan didn't even have a strong preference for Haskins' getting benched, and you turn to personal attacks questioning my fanhood.  Can't say I'm surprised.

 

You've been riding my jock all year.  You seem to be the one with the obsession, not me

I haven’t dismissed any point. I think your point is bad, as I pointed out to you. He is respected, and I respect him. I don’t think he is in a position to make an evaluation on Haskins. If he sends out a film breakdown and offers his analysis, I’d be more inclined to listen. It shows he has watched and still supports his decision.

 

I addressed your counter argument to the O’Sullivan analysis in full, to be clear. I stated that I also believed Haskins should probably have gotten more time, so the fact that I still agree with O’Sullivan shouldn’t be surprising or shocking to anyone. 
 

I added the aspect of the maturity issues vs. on-field stuff to try to give you some perspective as to why it’s possible that Ron Rivera, a respected coach and former player in the league, may have benched Haskins despite the fact that his play was probably not bad enough to bench him outright. 
 

My comment about the Haskins stuff was an observation based on your posts and your unwillingness to see any perspective that is not your own. 
 

I find it odd that you’re wearing a jock while typing here, but to each their own.

[HTTRDynasty]

Feeling like Jon Snow on this forum.

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Based on your logic, every qb if given a chance will turn out like josh allen.

 

Not at all.  But the raw talents drafted in the 1st round should at least be given a long enough leash to find out if they will or not.  Josh Allen had two full seasons worth of starts before this year.  Haskins hasn't even had one.

 

 

 

[scstand]

27 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

If this is true (and I do not put a lot of weight on 106.7's "analysis," especially coming from Dip**** and Douchey), this is a bad look.

 

if this is true, no wonder they de-pants him.

[ntotoro]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Feeling like Jon Snow on this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all.  But the raw talents drafted in the 1st round should at least be given a long enough leash to find out if they will or not.  Josh Allen had two full seasons worth of starts before this year.  Haskins hasn't even had one.

 

Except no one can understand why you're so in it for Haskins. It makes no sense LOL!

 

He was drafted in the first round, but shouldn't have been. It was a Clown Snyder pick. No other team had him rated that high. It could really well maybe might possibly be that he's so raw, he needs to sit and watch.. or maybe he just won't get it. I think even we as fans have seen him acting like a child throwing a tantrum, sitting on the bench away from Case Keenum last year, moping this year, bragging about meaningless stats in a loss, not fully accepting responsibility. The dude doesn't have "it," but thinks he does.

 

He needs to sit not only for the betterment of the team, but maybe even in order to better be able to evaluate other players.

[GOATFrerotte]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Not at all.  But the raw talents drafted in the 1st round should at least be given a long enough leash to find out if they will or not.  Josh Allen had two full seasons worth of starts before this year.  Haskins hasn't even had one.

 

 

 

 

As pointed out by many people here. Josh Allen is a dual threat qb that. He had a combined 29 tds last year. So he obviously had the ability to make plays. Haskins has two coaching staffs that have questioned his ability to even understand and run their offense. There's a better chance Haskins turns out like Jamarcus Russell than josh allen. Ron's seen enough. 

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I haven’t dismissed any point. I think your point is bad, as I pointed out to you. He is respected, and I respect him. I don’t think he is in a position to make an evaluation on Haskins. If he sends out a film breakdown and offers his analysis, I’d be more inclined to listen. It shows he has watched and still supports his decision.

 

I addressed your counter argument to the O’Sullivan analysis in full, to be clear. I stated that I also believed Haskins should probably have gotten more time, so the fact that I still agree with O’Sullivan shouldn’t be surprising or shocking to anyone. 
 

I added the aspect of the maturity issues vs. on-field stuff to try to give you some perspective as to why it’s possible that Ron Rivera, a respected coach and former player in the league, may have benched Haskins despite the fact that his play was probably not bad enough to bench him outright. 
 

My comment about the Haskins stuff was an observation based on your posts and your unwillingness to see any perspective that is not your own. 
 

I find it odd that you’re wearing a jock while typing here, but to each their own.

 

I think you've conveniently missed all my posts the past year and a half where I criticized Haskins for his footwork, accuracy, and immaturity.  The difference is, I don't think those are reasons to give up on your raw, 1st round QB who is learning his 3rd system in his second year, in which he was largely robbed of an offseason due to COVID.

 

As Jeremiah said, and I said ad nauseam over this week, it's very very shortsighted. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Based on your logic, every qb if given a chance will turn out like josh allen.

 

Yeah or Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman or whatever other QB started off poorly and went on to be great.

 

Each QB is different. But one of the things those guys all tend to have had was a natural relentless work ethic and deeply held drive to be great. By pretty much all accounts I've read, Josh Allen also has an extremely good work ethic and has been pretty relentless in doing everything he can to get better (without having to be poked and prodded into it).

 

Obviously none of us are around Haskins or have been in meetings and practices, but there have been multiple accounts that that type of relentless ingrained desire and work ethic aren't something he has naturally. 

 

Which, if true, is unfortunate and frustrating because of how much natural talent he has.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

As pointed out by many people here. Josh Allen is a dual threat qb

 

All the more reason to give Haskins more time, as pocket QBs usually take much longer to develop, but they tend to have a much longer career once they do fully develop.

[CommanderInTheRye]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The media type opinions on Haskins are so all over the place.  That to me all of that stuff is a wash.  Not that it matters.

 

 Kiper in his podcast last year, talked Haskins as a bust.  Some of the PFF guys (including recently) said his numbers indicates bust, one dude likes him there.  I posted the scouts take of Haskins from McGinn's report last year.  Some scouts liked him, some didn't -- more actually didn't.  I recall the draft geek report (I think it was Miller?) who said he discovered the media types were much higher on Haskins then personnel people he spoke to.  Banner said asking around many teams had a third round grade.  Lombardi said he wasn't high on him and others he talked to, ditto.  Then you got Casserly, Orlovsky, Brooks, Reddick who loved him.  Cooley didn't think much of him.  We can go on and on.  

 

My point is if we want to find personnel people, ex-Qbs, media talking heads on Haskins we can find any opinion under the sun.  Great.  Bust. "Meh'.  Not that different witth Daniel Jones, there is no consensus because IMO his talent doesn't jump off the page in such a heavy handed way where most are going to agree.

 

So if people want to find media types to back their views on Haskins pro or con, they can find whatever material they want.

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/02/film-room-scouting-report-dwayne-haskins-ohio-state

 

COACH: Todd Haley
Former Head Coach, Kansas City Chiefs; Offensive Coordinator, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals

Strengths: Size, short accuracy, quick release, quick passing game, level of competition, protects the ball.

Weaknesses: Deep accuracy, don’t see many NFL throws, one-year starter, doesn’t see coverage, all shotgun, average athlete, can’t extend plays, minus runner, below-average drops/footwork

Player Comp: Jacoby Brissett.

Ideal landing spot: A west coast offense—progression passing game

Can he be a starter in 2019?: I would bet against him starting early. He had arguably best offensive line in college football, and a good supporting cast with a proven system. I believe the jump to the NFL will be a big one for him and he will be game manager-type early. I just didn’t see enough NFL throws on tape. And so much success was created by the system. He has shown the baseline skill set to be a successful one-year starter in college against a high level of competition, he shows very good short accuracy and the ability to be a progression passer. However he lacks downfield accuracy on tape and I don’t see him make many NFL throws. So it will take time and development.

 

QUARTERBACK: Bruce Gradkowski
Former Quarterback, Pittsburgh Steelers, Cincinnati Bengals, Oakland Raiders, Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Strengths: He looks the part and by all accounts has great leadership qualities. He has a presence about him when you pop on the film. Big, strong frame that can stand in the pocket and take hits. Haskins does a good job getting the ball to where it should go. He understands the game and you can see the command he has of the offense on the field. Accurate on short and intermediate throws and demonstrates a strong, powerful arm.

Weaknesses: He doesn’t have a ton of experience. This doesn’t mean he won’t be successful but it’s something coaches should think about if they are looking for a day one starter. Haskins could do a better job on following through. He uses all arm when he throws—it will benefit him to learn how to use his legs, rhythm, and timing to elevate his throwing power and accuracy. He looks heavy-footed in the pocket. If the pocket is clean, he can make all the throws necessary, but I worry about his accuracy when the pocket starts to collapse on him. I also lack confidence in his escapability when things break down. He is able to get through his progressions but seems to be a little late at times. He has a tendency to wait and make sure he sees the receiver open rather than anticipate the open window. I’ve watched too many instances of his deep ball hanging in the air and receivers waiting on the football. His delivery seems to change at times and isn’t consistent.

 

 

 

Todd Haley's astute analysis of Dwayne's strengths and weaknesses could have been written today (with the exception of his recent regression in ball security). 

 

"

Strengths: Size, short accuracy, quick release, quick passing game, level of competition, protects the ball.

Weaknesses: Deep accuracy, don’t see many NFL throws, one-year starter, doesn’t see coverage, all shotgun, average athlete, can’t extend plays, minus runner, below-average drops/footwork

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I think you've conveniently missed all my posts the past year and a half where I criticized Haskins for his footwork, accuracy, and immaturity.  The difference is, I don't think those are reasons to give up on your raw, 1st round QB who is learning his 3rd system in his second year, in which he was largely robbed of an offseason due to COVID.

 

As Jeremiah said, and I said ad nauseam over this week, it's very very shortsighted. 

I think we’re getting somewhere now with this discussion. I now understand your issue as it pertains to the benching...

 

But let’s operate in a hypothetical here: If the rest of the team was souring on Haskins locker room antics, and the locker room was frustrated with Haskins play AND overall way of carrying himself, would benching him be okay?

 

I understand you believe a lot of this is hearsay, so I’m not asking you this as if it absolutely happened (I think it did, but that is conjecture). 
 

If he was dividing the locker room, is benching him okay? And how would you feel about Rivera if he kept him as starter and he lost the rest of the locker room and things got much worse?

[profusion]

Rivera has just given Haskins a precious gift, and we'll see what he does with it. 

 

I've always gotten a whiff of entitlement from Haskins, and it's clear he's been the BMOC at every stop along the way. Until now.

 

If he wants to get back in uniform on Sundays, he's going to have to drop the attitude and start putting in the work. 

 

Successful quarterbacks get it all: the money, the TV gigs, the Brazilian model wives/girlfriends, etc. But they pay for that success by being the first in the facility every day and the last out. I have no doubt that Tom Brady has conditioned himself to believe that he's just one bad practice away from total failure. They're kind of extreme personalities, because they have to be.

 

If Haskins turns around his attitude and actually starts following Alex Smith's example, I wouldn't be shocked to see him on the field again this season. But it's up to him.

[GOATFrerotte]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

All the more reason to give Haskins more time, as pocket QBs usually take much longer to develop, but they tend to have a much longer career once they do fully develop.

 

Using one qb and ignoring all the other qbs that failed is just being blindly loyal and not being realistic. Ron is being realistic that Haskins isn't ready for the NFL game. Like I said, Allen might have been inaccruate last year but he made plays downfield and with his legs. Something Haskins hasn't shown the ability to do.