FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[NickyJ]

Just now, ggarriso said:

 

Not to derail the DH thread, but would we be legitimately looking at the greatest comeback in sports history?

 

Depending on whether "best QB on the Redskins roster" is equal to "better than mediocre", it could be.

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, London Kev said:

 

I'm probably falling into your trap, but I think he's the first one (the bad one).

 

9 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I kind of want to mix and match A and B for Haskins.  But leaning towards B.

 

You got me for who the other is.  Which draft class is the other from?

The two seem pretty similar, right? I will tell you that player B is Dwayne Haskins. 

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Why do you keep saying this?  How the heck would Rivera sign Cam with Dan asking him to try to give it a ride this season with Haskins?

 

Very easily.  You sign him with the knowledge that Haskins is very likely not going to work out, as you've said over and over again as it relates to Rivera's opinion on Haskins coming in.

 

Then you tell Dan we have a great option to win now with if Haskins doesn't work out.  Dan gets a win-win out of it.

 

Cam didn't have any FA interest until very late in the process.  It's not unlikely he knew he would have to prove himself with any organization he signed with, and I'm sure he would have welcomed a reunion with Rivera.

 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll see if I can recall when this was discussed and by which beat guy but I recall some conversation about it at the time centering on Ron knows Cam is not riding the bench and Cam's personality would quickly overshadow Haskins or something like that.

 

 Worrying about Haskins' ego is the stupidest thing you could do if you know there's a strong possibility you could pull him after 4 weeks.

 

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So all the beat guys are making stuff up just for kicks?    Hearsay?  

 

We don't know who is saying what, and for what purpose.  We don't know how Rivera feels about the agent's tweets.  This is all speculation that is pointless to use in regards to diving how Rivera feels about Haskins.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Very easily.  You sign him with the knowledge that Haskins is very likely not going to work out, as you've said over and over again as it relates to Rivera's opinion on Haskins coming in.

 

Then you tell Dan we have a great option to win now with if Haskins doesn't work out.  Dan gets a win-win out of it.

 

Cam didn't have any FA interest until very late in the process.  It's not unlikely he knew he would have to prove himself with any organization he signed with, and I'm sure he would have welcomed a reunion with Rivera.

 

 

 Worrying about Haskins' ego is the stupidest thing you could do if you know there's a strong possibility you could pull him after 4 weeks.

 

 

We don't know who is saying what, and for what purpose.  We don't know how Rivera feels about the agent's tweets.  This is all speculation that is pointless to use in regards to diving how Rivera feels about Haskins.

Do we know Cam had no interest from anyone? Sounds like you’re doing some of your own speculating. 
 

Also, if Cam is signed, Haskins isn’t playing. 
 

Also also, he didn’t think the team had a chance to win now, so why would he try to win now prior to the discovery that Dallas is a defensive nightmare and Philly is a MASH unit?

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, megared said:

 

My point is if you know the narrative has undertones and biases attached to it, and you don't identify with those views...then why repeat them?  His play objectively said he wasn't a good QB.  Why slander the guy's character on his way out of the door?  

 

There's many reasons why he failed.  Keying on what you have read to be other's perceptions of someone else's attitude, isn't steeped in facts.  It's like 3rd order conjecture.  It's a representation of how you feel about him, personally that the first reason you think he failed was his attitude.

 

 

 

There you go again, making unfair assumptions that it's personal.  That simply is not the case for most of us.  You claimed he should be able to act like any other 23 year old, another poster pointed out how this does not apply to 23 year old professional quarterbacks.  You really didn't address this.

 

Instead of charging others with not liking him personally and this has clouded their evaluation suppose you explain to us why you are so married to him and continue to blame others for his failure?  

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Do we know Cam had no interest from anyone? Sounds like you’re doing some of your own speculating.

 

Judging by the lack of reports of teams expressing interest and his long delay before signing with anyone, I don't know how much more sure we can get.

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Also, if Cam is signed, Haskins isn’t playing. 

 

And why is that?  Haskins can still get his token 4 weeks, and Cam can take over.  If Cam can be "benched" for Allen, he can wait a few games for Haskins to fail before being handed the reigns here.  And even if we started Cam right away, Haskins' still benefits from his time on the bench to learn the playbook and we would get more in a trade for him than we currently have any chance of getting.  Not to mention, Haskins would have likely started at some point regardless, given Cam's injury history.

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Also also, he didn’t think the team had a chance to win now, so why would he try to win now prior to the discovery that Dallas is a defensive nightmare and Philly is a MASH unit?

 

As I said, this division has been a dumpster-fire for a long time, and was especially so last year.  It didn't take a genius to predict the division would be up for grabs this year.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Judging by the lack of reports of teams expressing interest and his long delay before signing with anyone, I don't know how much more sure we can get.

 

 

And why is that?  Haskins can still get his token 4 weeks, and Cam can take over.  If Cam can be "benched" for Allen, he can wait a few games for Haskins to fail before being handed the reigns here.  And even if we started Cam right away, Haskins' still benefits from his time on the bench to learn the playbook and we would get more in a trade for him than we currently have any chance of getting.  Not to mention, Haskins would have likely started at some point regardless, given Cam's injury history.

 

 

As I said, this division has been a dumpster-fire for a long time, and was especially so last year.  It didn't take a genius to predict the division would be up for grabs this year.

I always enjoy when someone jumps on someone for speculating and then does the same. For the record, I think the interest in him was low... just proving a point. You are all over everyone who doesn’t “know”, even with reasonable thought processes, but you do the same on a regular basis. Food for thought. 
 

Second paragraph: Because Cam is much better than Haskins and Haskins has no business starting over him. Oh, and no one would believe Haskins beat him out in camp. 
 

Third paragraph: Where’s your prediction? Honestly asking.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

 

Not to derail the DH thread, but would we be legitimately looking at the greatest comeback in sports history?

 

 

Maybe.  It's a Hollywood story for sure.  

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, KDawg said:

I always enjoy when someone jumps on someone for speculating and then does the same. For the record, I think the interest in him was low... just proving a point. You are all over everyone who doesn’t “know”, even with reasonable thought processes, but you do the same on a regular basis. Food for thought. 

 

There's a difference in speculating how a person feels about a tweet versus a person looking at the lack of reports around the league of any interest in Cam at the beginning of FA, when we know he's a big name and reports would be flying from Schefter, Rap, etc. if any interest was shown, and saying there was no evidence of interest.

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Second paragraph: Because Cam is much better than Haskins and Haskins has no business starting over him. Oh, and no one would believe Haskins beat him out in camp. 

 

And?  The buck stops with Rivera.  He can handle the season and the roster however he wants, no matter how idiotic... clearly.

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Third paragraph: Where’s your prediction? Honestly asking.

 

Was there an NFCE prediction thread I missed?

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Very easily.  You sign him with the knowledge that Haskins is very likely not going to work out, as you've said over and over again as it relates to Rivera's opinion on Haskins coming in.

 

Then you tell Dan we have a great option to win now with if Haskins doesn't work out.  Dan gets a win-win out of it.

 

Cam didn't have any FA interest until very late in the process.  It's not unlikely he knew he would have to prove himself with any organization he signed with, and I'm sure he would have welcomed a reunion with Rivera.

 

 

Rivera is a standup guy maybe he genuinely wanted to give Haskins a real shot.   Maybe Newton didn't want to come here in this type of situation.  Maybe he mentioned it to Dan and he said no.  How do you know you got the facts on this?

 

 

21 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

We don't know who is saying what, and for what purpose.  We don't know how Rivera feels about the agent's tweets.  This is all speculation that is pointless to use in regards to diving how Rivera feels about Haskins.

 

OK to add to the "hearsay"

 

I just listened to Les Carpenter on 106.7.  He said that from the people he spoke to over there -- Haskins' work ethic did improve in the off season but once he was named the starter it dissapated.    And they were "perplexed that he was blowing his opportunity" 

[Est.1974]

Rivera specifically cited the need for him to fairly evaluate Haskins as being a significant factor in not signing Cam. Rivera still drooled over Cam in the offseason and I bet he is livid with both himself and Haskins for this current scenario. 
 

Cam has stated his time in NE is purely business. Don’t think he relocated his family out there. On the grounds Haskins appears as far away as ever from being staring material, Cam has to be a very realistic option in 2021.

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

There's a difference in speculating how a person feels about a tweet versus a person looking at the lack of reports around the league of any interest in Cam at the beginning of FA, when we know he's a big name and reports would be flying from Schefter, Rap, etc. if any interest was shown, and saying there was no evidence of interest.

 

 

And?  The buck stops with Rivera.  He can handle the season and the roster however he wants, no matter how idiotic... clearly.

 

 

Was there an NFCE prediction thread I missed?

1. No difference at all. Speculation is speculation. 
 

2. Sure. And you’d be doing the same song and dance if Cam was signed and Dwayne never played. Except claiming Dwayne is definitely better and is being held back. Now we’ve seen he doesn’t have it and that doesn’t sit right with a certain contingent, so that contingent is curious why he ever started and didn’t sit behind Cam. It’s predictable. 
 

3. Nothing stopped you from making one. But maybe my memory is off, but I seem to remember you thinking we wouldn’t be good. But I freely admit my memory may be deceiving me.

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rivera is a standup guy maybe he genuinely wanted to give Haskins a real shot.   Maybe Newton didn't want to come here in this type of situation.  Maynbe he mentioned it to Dan and he said no.  How do you know you got the facts on this?

 

So 4 weeks is a "real shot"?  Lol.

 

Also, Rivera was asked multiple times about signing Cam and he made it clear he wouldn't do it - based on that, it doesn't seem as if Cam had any say.

 

I never said I had the facts.  Just that I believe Rivera's inconsistency so far has been a threat to both the team's short-term and long-term success.

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK to add to the "hearsay"

 

I just listened to Les Carpenter on 106.7.  He said that from the people he spoke to over there -- Haskins' work ethic did improve in the off season but once he was named the starter it dissapated.    And they were "perplexed that he was blowing his opportunity" 

 

The hearsay I was referring to was Rivera's feelings about the tweet from the agent.

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

1. No difference at all. Speculation is speculation. 

 

False.

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

2. Sure. And you’d be doing the same song and dance if Cam was signed and Dwayne never played. Except claiming Dwayne is definitely better and is being held back. Now we’ve seen he doesn’t have it and that doesn’t sit right with a certain contingent, so that contingent is curious why he ever started and didn’t sit behind Cam. It’s predictable. 

 

False.

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

3. Nothing stopped you from making one. But maybe my memory is off, but I seem to remember you thinking we wouldn’t be good. But I freely admit my memory may be deceiving me.

 

I did think we wouldn't be good.  I also didn't think our division would be good.  One does not negate the other.  And if we had Cam as starting QB, I likely would have predicted a 1st or 2nd place finish, knowing how bad the rest of our division is.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So 4 weeks is a "real shot"?  Lol.

 

Also, Rivera was asked multiple times about signing Cam and he made it clear he wouldn't do it - based on that, it doesn't seem as if Cam had any say.

 

I never said I had the facts.  Just that I believe Rivera's inconsistency so far has been a threat to both the team's short-term and long-term success.

 

 

The hearsay I was referring to was Rivera's feelings about the tweet from the agent.

 

False.

 

 

False.

 

 

I did think we wouldn't be good.  I also didn't think our division would be good.  One does not negate the other.  And if we had Cam as starting QB, I likely would have predicted a 1st or 2nd place finish, knowing how bad the rest of our division is.

1. It’s not but we’ll just leave that in the atmosphere.

 

2. Again, not false. But it’s in the wind.

 

3. You’re telling me that you thought Dallas especially was going to be this bad? Okay. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, KDawg said:

1. It’s not but we’ll just leave that in the atmosphere.

 

It is, but I'm done with this pointless discussion.

 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

2. Again, not false. But it’s in the wind.

 

It is, but I'm done with this pointless discussion.

 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

3. You’re telling me that you thought Dallas especially was going to be this bad? Okay. 

 

Yes, and... I'm done with this pointless discussion.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So 4 weeks is a "real shot"?  Lol.

 

 

As I mentioned before the benching Shanny said when you bench a dude its mostly about what you see in practice.    Turner himself referred to practice, too. Lol.

 

And like I said if you have a predisposition that a player might not have it (which I don't know if they do or don't) the leash would be shorter.

 

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I never said I had the facts.  Just that I believe Rivera's inconsistency so far has been a threat to both the team's short-term and long-term success.

 

His "inconsistency" to me would be only if we thought he wasn't using an excuse to bench Haskins as opposed to telling people the real reason.  Coaches rarely blast players they bench, they tend to find a nice excuse for it.  The reasoning tends to come out later.  But we've been through this.  Obviously you don't believe this.  So lets stop spinning our wheels on it.

 

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

The hearsay I was referring to was Rivera's feelings about the tweet from the agent.

 

OK so you accept the stories about his work ethic?  Because you didn't comment on it.

 

That was my main point in that mix not the agent's comment.  As for the agent comment, I thought Rivera's sarcastic comment about Kyle Allen will have the same unfair shake -- gives a strong hint that he didn't love it.  But who knows.  The work ethic stuff we've heard from everyone who covers the team last year.  As for this year, looks like its creeping up again. 

[SoCalSkins]

Cam is 31 and has looked fantastic before he got covid. A 32 year old former MVP who had a 15-1 record with our current head coach is a pretty decent long term answer in my opinion. If you are thinking past 3 years in the modern NFL you are thinking too much. I would be on board with than in a heartbeat.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As I mentioned before the benching Shanny said when you bench a dude its mostly about what you see in practice.    Turner himself referred to practice, too. Lol.

 

And like I said if you have a predisposition that a player might not have it (which I don't know if they do or don't) the leash would be shorter.

 

You appear to love quote the beat writers when it suits you, but if I recall correctly, the beat writers were higher on Dwayne than they were Allen during the practice sessions open to the media.  If Shanny is correct about why he was benched, Haskins must have turned into Allen Iverson's less talented alter ego in record time.

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

His "inconsistency" to me would be only if we thought he wasn't using an excuse to bench Haskins as opposed to telling people the real reason.  Coaches rarely blast players they bench, they tend to find a nice excuse for it.  The reasoning tends to come out later.  But we've been through this.  Obviously you don't believe this.  So lets stop spinning our wheels on it.

 

Agreed.

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK so you accept the stories about his work ethic?  Because you didn't comment on it.

 

That was my main point in that mix not the agent's comment.  As for the agent comment, I thought Rivera's sarcastic comment about Kyle Allen will have the same unfair shake -- gives a strong hint that he didn't love it.  But who knows.  The work ethic stuff we've heard from everyone who covers the team last year.  As for this year, looks like its creeping up again. 

 

I have no idea about how much truth there is to the work ethic stories.  All I know is that these things tend to leak out when a team is not performing well, and I could see the piling on coming from a mile away.

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

Cam is 31 and has looked fantastic before he got covid. A 32 year old former MVP who had a 15-1 record with our current head coach is a pretty decent long term answer in my opinion. If you are thinking past 3 years in the modern NFL you are thinking too much. I would be on board with than in a heartbeat.

 

Yes, that would have been much more preferable than the situation we're currently in.

[SoCalSkins]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yes, that would have been much more preferable than the situation we're currently in.

I don’t think he could have signed Cam this year. Ron had to give Haskins a legit shot to appease Dan. Plus Cam probably won’t want to be a on a team where a 1st round pick is waiting in the wings. 
 

Now it’s a completely different situation. I doubt Bellichick breaks the bank on Cam and highly doubt he uses the franchise tag on him. So in all likelihood he will be a unrestricted free agent. He can walk in as undisputed starter in a system he’s excelled in with coaches he knows along with a pretty good D in a weak division. That’s the most logical scenario in my mind as of now but a lot can change between now and March. 
 

 

[GOATFrerotte]

I'm pretty sure Ron went in to this season thinking Haskins would develop enough to give him more than 4 games. Circumstances have changed and whether it's off the field, on the field, or both he's not comfortable with Haskins. This whole thought process that he was looking to bench him before the season even started is speculation. Some people keep glossing over the fact he was statistically the worst passer in the nfl. That's hard to work with as a coach. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

That’s the most logical scenario in my mind as of now but a lot can change between now and March. 

 

We're likely to be in a situation next year where we don't have a high enough draft pick to take a great QB prospect, so we may as well go with Cam if the Patriots don't re-sign him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Stepping back and looking at it, removing emotion...

 

You guys are hilarious.  Nowhere else would a 1-3 football team with a first round bust QB be discussed ad nauseam for this long.  The speculation here is over the top.

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Stepping back and looking at it, removing emotion...

 

You guys are hilarious.  Nowhere else would a 1-3 football team with a first round bust QB be discussed ad nauseam for this long.  The speculation here is over the top.

 

I would postulate that all of my opinions and speculations are fact and anyone who disagrees is stupid. And probably ugly too. 

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We're likely to be in a situation next year where we don't have a high enough draft pick to take a great QB prospect, so we may as well go with Cam if the Patriots don't re-sign him.

This the worst the NFC East he ever been since going to a 4 team format. With Cam we are presumptive favorites.  I don’t see how you add a first round QB in 2021 if you can sign Cam instead.  The #1 on a Redwolves jersey gonna look great!

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

You appear to love quote the beat writers when it suits you, but if I recall correctly, the beat writers were higher on Dwayne than they were Allen during the practice sessions open to the media.  If Shanny is correct about why he was benched, Haskins must have turned into Allen Iverson's less talented alter ego in record time.

 

 

Suggesting I quote beat wrtters when it suits me -- ridiculous.  I post as much stuff as anyone on the board, postive, negative, or anything in between.  If I am arguing a specific point, yes I back it up with what I got.  

 

The beat guys aren't QB experts but to play along some of them said Haskins was up and down in camp.  Some liked him.   Yeah the Redskins Talk guys said Allen didn't look hot.  But you got me where I am advocating for Kyle Allen?  

 

Carpenter's point though was once Haskins was named the starter he fell back into some habits they didn't like.

 

25 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I have no idea about how much truth there is to the work ethic stories.  All I know is that these things tend to leak out when a team is not performing well, and I could see the piling on coming from a mile away.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like you feel that may be true but just as likely may not be true?