FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[skinsmania123]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Haskins best course of action is to let others speak for him and continue to improve behind the scenes without saying much.

 

He'll get criticized regardless, but coming off of his "the league messed up" stuff, he may be better off not saying a whole lot.

 

But he feels the need to defend himself, so hey, what are ya gonna do?

I was just thinking the same thing. I am glad someone else was thinking it.  He already said too much when he came into the league.  Hopefully he gets some good advice and just works to get ready to start some games.  

[Skin'emAlive]

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

That's fine. I just wish he'd pride himself more on his footwork and mechanics. Being able to read a defense does nothing if you can't deliver the ball consistently. 

 

IMO footwork and mechanics arent as important in the modern NFL as the ability to read a defense, accuracy, awareness, mobility, and quick release. Guys like Mahomes and Rodgers have rewritten the book on how to control the game with this skill set.

 

Quote

"You throw the football from the ground up. You want your feet in a positive position. You want to transfer power from the ground, to your hips, to your shoulders, to your release point. It's something that you have to work on. It's not natural. It's not exactly the guru type of throwing that we've seen from some of these guys who've been teaching quarterbacks over the years," Rodgers told STACK. "But there's a few of us in the league who are pretty efficient at it. It involves harnessing your power and off-setting your arm as much as possible."

 

I dont think we need Haskins to have both feet set all the time necessarily, as Rodgers most certainly does not (although it would certainly improve accuracy). But he makes a good point in that you need to harness the power from lower body to throwing arm. Back-foot passes from Aaron usually seem to go where he wants it.

 

Haskins is ready to start, but the team is not ready for him to start. The plan is for 2020 and not to jeopardize that. Trent Williams needs to be moved before the trade deadline so we can set up a team around Haskins going forward in 2020.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

IMO footwork and mechanics arent as important in the modern NFL as the ability to read a defense, accuracy, awareness, mobility, and quick release. Guys like Mahomes and Rodgers have rewritten the book on how to control the game with this skill set.

 

 

I dont think we need Haskins to have both feet set all the time necessarily, as Rodgers most certainly does not (although it would certainly improve accuracy). But he makes a good point in that you need to harness the power from lower body to throwing arm. Back-foot passes from Aaron usually seem to go where he wants it.

Citing 2 elite quarterbacks with different skill-sets doesn’t really bode well for your argument here.  It’s rather evident that Dwayne is not those guys.  That doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t be good but I’ve never gathered the impression he’s going to be shaking and moving like those guys.  Probably the best example for Dwayne is more Big Ben, who like most guys, struggles when mechanics are off.

[Skin'emAlive]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Citing 2 elite quarterbacks with different skill-sets doesn’t really bode well for your argument here.  It’s rather evident that Dwayne is not those guys.  That doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t be good but I’ve never gathered the impression he’s going to be shaking and moving like those guys.  Probably the best example for Dwayne is more Big Ben, who like most guys, struggles when mechanics are off.

 

I didnt feel like going through a gamut of qbs. But Big Ben is another good example. Bad mechanics be damned, he still put up 5000 yards last year. If anything, they failed last year more due to huge offensive losses (Bell/Brown), a terrible defense, a career worse season from Chris Boswell (65% accuracy compared to 100% this year), and gutsy 4th down conversions that didnt workout. The point was more that you dont necessarily need to have perfect mechanics anymore to have success as a qb. But you do need to have the ability to read a defense and accuracy, and the ability to buy time.

 

I guess my point was that imo its ok to pride yourself more in vision than mechanics in the modern nfl.

[Llevron]

He’s gotta learn the NFL is a game and the media is a different one. They don’t ask you because they want to hear from you they ask you because they want something to talk about. Give it to them and they will use it. 

 

They did did the same thing to Griffin. Kirk understood he had no friends in the media (accept most of the radio stations here) 

[volsmet]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:43 AM, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Everyone was ready to name Baker Mayfield the next Brett Favre. How's he doing this year?

 

Point is we won't know until he plays. 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 Kirk understood he had no friends in the media (accept most of the radio stations here) 

 

Kirk's career defining moment came after he criticized the media ("you like that") for calling him out for what was: Mediocre. 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Hoffman sounds foolish, imo.

 

*

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

IMO footwork and mechanics arent as important in the modern NFL as the ability to read a defense, accuracy, awareness, mobility, and quick release. Guys like Mahomes and Rodgers have rewritten the book on how to control the game with this skill set.

 

Mahomes & Rodgers are anomalies with 1 combined SB win.

 

 

[volsmet]

54 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

I didnt feel like going through a gamut of qbs. But Big Ben is another good example. Bad mechanics be damned, he still put up 5000 yards last year. If anything, they failed last year more due to huge offensive losses (Bell/Brown), a terrible defense, a career worse season from Chris Boswell (65% accuracy compared to 100% this year), and gutsy 4th down conversions that didnt workout. The point was more that you dont necessarily need to have perfect mechanics anymore to have success as a qb. But you do need to have the ability to read a defense and accuracy, and the ability to buy time.

 

I guess my point was that imo its ok to pride yourself more in vision than mechanics in the modern nfl.

Ben has more than 1 int per start over the last 4 years, even with elite offensive weapons & a great Ol. 

 

8 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Kirk's career defining moment came after he criticized the media ("you like that") for calling him out for what was: Mediocre. 

Good thing Tampa dropped the int he threw their way in the end. What a goofball.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Hoffman sounds foolish, imo.

 

*

Mahomes & Rodgers are anomalies with 1 combined SB win.

 

 

 

Hoffman explained  on the radio that he was thinking Haskins was downplaying his need to keep working to improve on that front. But he said on air his bad for misinterpreting him.

[wit33]

33 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Hoffman sounds foolish, imo.

Right. Who’s the adult in this situation? 

[Skin'emAlive]

17 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Mahomes & Rodgers are anomalies with 1 combined SB win.

 

 

The 1 superbowl win is more due to his inability to stay on the field ( among some other poor coaching and FO decisions). This is exactly why im adamant about keeping Haskins on the bench until we have adequate protection at the OL and TE positions.

 

(https://sportsinjurypredictor.com)

 

Aaron Rodgers Injury History:

 

Chance of Injury in 2019: 38%
Chance of Injury per Game: 2.9%
Projected Games missed for 2019: 0.5
Durability: 8

Dec 30, 2018   Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers departed in the 2nd quarter and never returned. Sep 9, 2018   Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Rodgers was carted off but later returned vs. Chicago. He dealt with a sprain and a bone bruise for most of the season. Oct 15, 2017   Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers returned for 1 game before sitting out the final 2 weeks. Dec 11, 2016   Leg Calf Strain Rodgers' injury wasn't considered serious. Dec 21, 2014   Leg Calf Tear Rodgers reportedly had a "slight" tear in his calf. Nov 4, 2013   Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers' injury forced him to miss the next 7 games. Dec 12, 2010   Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers missed 1 game with his 2nd concussion of 2010. Oct 10, 2010   Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers didn't miss a game following his Week 5 concussion. Nov 19, 2006   Pedal Foot Fracture Rodgers was placed on IR after suffering a foot fracture.

Ben Roethlisberger Injury History:

 

 

Chance of Injury in 2019: 41.5%
Chance of Injury per Game: 3.3%
Projected Games missed for 2019: 0.6
Durability: 18

 

Dec 9, 2018		Chest Rib Fracture	Roethlisberger didn't miss any games, despite dealing with cracked ribs.
Oct 16, 2016		Knee Meniscus Tear	Big Ben missed just 1 game following surgery.
Jan 9, 2016		Shoulder A/C Joint Sprain	Roethlisberger had an AC sprain with torn ligaments in his throwing shoulder, yet he missed 0 games.
Nov 29, 2015		Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Roethlisberger was concussed late in the 4th quarter. He suited up the following week.
Nov 8, 2015		Pedal Foot Sprain	Big Ben sprained his left foot but returned to play the following week.
Sep 27, 2015		Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2	Roethlisberger took a sack at an awkward angle and had to be carted off the field.
Sep 29, 2013		Hand Finger Dislocation	In Week 4, Big Ben dislocated his right index finger but continued playing.
Nov 12, 2012		Chest Rib Separation	Roethlisberger separated his throwing shoulder and dislocated a rib vs. Kansas City.
Nov 12, 2012		Shoulder S/C Joint Separation	Big Ben dislocated a joint in his shoulder against the Chiefs, causing him to miss the next three weeks.
Aug 4, 2012		Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Ben sprained an ankle when an offensive lineman stepped on him.
Dec 8, 2011		Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Roethlisberger sprained his left ankle around halftime against the Browns in Week 14 but returned for the second half.
Nov 13, 2011		Hand Thumb Fracture	Roethlisberger didn't miss a snap in Week 10 action vs. the Bengals.
Oct 2, 2011		Pedal Foot Sprain	In Week 4 against the Texans, Roethlisberger suffered a foot sprain but played through it.
Dec 5, 2010		Head Nose Fracture	Big Ben didn't miss a snap despite his injury.
Nov 28, 2010		Pedal Foot Fracture	What was first thought of as a sprain turned out to be a foot fracture for Big Ben. He played the following week and didn't miss any game time.
Nov 22, 2009		Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Roethlisberger missed 1 game with his concussion.
Aug 20, 2009		Pedal Achilles Pull Grade 1	Big Ben suffered a pulled achilles against the Bengals in the preseason and missed Week 1 as a result.
Oct 22, 2006		Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Ben took a nasty helmet to helmet hit from Chauncey Davis.

 

 

Tom Brady injury history:

 

Chance of Injury in 2019: 22.5%
Chance of Injury per Game: 1.6%
Projected Games missed for 2019: 0.1
Durability: 19

 

 

Jan 17, 2018		Hand Lacerated	Brady suffered a lacerated right (throwing) hand in practice on the Wednesday leading up to the AFC Championship. He required stitches but was able to play on Sunday.
Oct 10, 2014		Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1	Brady rolled his ankle in a practice but wasn't forced to miss any games due to it.
Sep 4, 2014		Leg Calf Strain	Brady missed with a calf injury but was ready for the season opener.
Nov 7, 2010		Pedal Foot Fracture	Brady reportedly played much or all of the 2010 season with a stress fracture in his foot. The injury might have dated back as far as 2008. He had surgery in January 2011.
Sep 7, 2008		Knee ACL Tear Grade 3	Brady tore his left ACL and MCL in the 1st quarter of Week 1, had surgery and missed the rest of the season.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Right. Who’s the adult in this situation? 

 

Oddly enough if I recall Hoffman is super young himself, if I recall in his 20s. I respect him for backing off and retracting, most media types double down when cornered.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

IMO footwork and mechanics arent as important in the modern NFL as the ability to read a defense, accuracy, awareness, mobility, and quick release. Guys like Mahomes and Rodgers have rewritten the book on how to control the game with this skill set.

 

 

It's true that a QB doesn't have to have classic textbook mechanics and footwork to be very successful in the NFL today. And you're correct in that nowadays the position is going more towards playmakers who can make those crazy throws and may have somewhat unorthodox mechanics. However, what they do have is a very solid base that they build upon. I don't mean base as in their stance...I mean base set of consistent mechanics and footwork. One of Dwayne's biggest issues is his inconsistency in his footwork and mechanics. With that mechanical inconsistency comes very inconsistent accuracy which we've seen. 

 

I think about it like a musician who has a great ear and taught himself how to play an instrument, but never learned much or any music theory. For many years he's been playing in garage bands with a bunch of other less naturally talented musicians and he sounds awesome in that environment because of his natural musical ability. However, once he goes to move up from being a garage band player to a professional studio musician he can't cut it because he doesn't have that fundamental music theory base that he can then improvise on top of. As a result he's consistently off key and can't follow the modes and progressions correctly. Sometimes he'll get himself in the right key/mode and will absolutely kill a solo, but just as often he sounds lost.

 

[wit33]

Was watching some Marino highlights and thought of him before as a comparison to Haskins, and even more so now. They both appear to be “arm throwers”, don’t engage the core or legs as much as some others. It’s interesting, they both have that awkward type athleticism when on the move with Haskins being a step and half faster maybe. 
 

Thoughts?

[volsmet]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It's true that a QB doesn't have to have classic textbook mechanics and footwork to be very successful in the NFL today. And you're correct in that nowadays the position is going more towards playmakers who can make those crazy throws and may have somewhat unorthodox mechanics. However, what they do have is a very solid base that they build upon. I don't mean base as in their stance...I mean base set of consistent mechanics and footwork. One of Dwayne's biggest issues is his inconsistency in his footwork and mechanics. With that mechanical inconsistency comes very inconsistent accuracy which we've seen. 

 

I think about it like a musician who has a great ear and taught himself how to play an instrument, but never learned much or any music theory. For many years he's been playing in garage bands with a bunch of other less naturally talented musicians and he sounds awesome in that environment because of his natural musical ability. However, once he goes to move up from being a garage band player to a professional studio musician he can't cut it because he doesn't have that fundamental music theory base that he can then improvise on top of. As a result he's consistently off key and can't follow the modes and progressions correctly. Sometimes he'll get himself in the right key/mode and will absolutely kill a solo, but just as often he sounds lost.

 

I think what gets lost in the conversation about mechanics is the fact that mechanical issues are what causes DH to miss. You can throw the ball any way you like if the variance in outcomes is limited, but they’re not with DH. Mechanics help narrow the range of outcomes. Haskins can make spectacular throws with an awkward platform but his more wild throws are typically a result of things he can address with his feet/hips/etc.

 

 

 

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Was watching some Marino highlights and thought of him before as a comparison to Haskins, and even more so now. They both appear to be “arm throwers”, don’t engage the core or legs as much as some others. It’s interesting, they both have that awkward type athleticism when on the move with Haskins being a step and half faster maybe. 
 

Thoughts?

Marino’s release defied physics. The release, back & hips have similarities to DH, particularly throwing wide to right they both create momentum uniquely to get the ball out quickly.

 

 

[volsmet]

 

[ggarriso]

Another week another incident where "Simba" (lol) makes a stupid comment showing his ass for everyone to see, what a "joke"..  Never seen someone so entitled when all he has done is thrown picks to 4th stringers and one of the worst defenses in the league.  Still calling the bust, and i'll be back to own if if it turns out differently

 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

12 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

<garbage text>

 

... and i'll be back to own if if it turns out differently

 

 

 

No you wont

[Skin'emAlive]

Now im not saying that great mechanics are unnecessary. Im saying that if their was a hierarchy of skillsets for the modern NFL, Vision, Mobility, Quick Release, and ability to read a defense quickly are much higher. Mechanics take a back seat to them as if you can read the play, know which guy is open, and have the ability to get the pass off, you have a real shot at having success. You can have success in the NFL with those traits, and over time the mechanics can be worked out. Conversely, you can either read a defense, or you cant. There really isnt an in-between.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Now im not saying that great mechanics are unnecessary. Im saying that if their was a hierarchy of skillsets for the modern NFL, Vision, Mobility, Quick Release, and ability to read a defense quickly are much higher. Mechanics take a back seat to them as if you can read the play, know which guy is open, and have the ability to get the pass off, you have a real shot at having success. You can have success in the NFL with those traits, and over time the mechanics can be worked out. Conversely, you can either read a defense, or you cant. There really isnt an in-between.

 

Mechanics can absolutely be improved. But the problem with your statement is that, while it's true that ability to read a defense, knowing which guy is open, having good vision, etc are all very important things, none of them matter if the ball doesn't get there consistently. If a QB reads a defense perfectly, sees the whole field, and quickly finds the open receiver but then throws an errant pass then none of that stuff makes a difference since it wasn't a catch. That's the issues with DH's mechanics...it causes very inconsistent accuracy. This is what @volsmethas been saying over and over as well: he needs to improve his fundamental mechanics and footwork to narrow the variance of his throws or he's going to keep making the occasional spectacular throw followed by multiple off target ones. 

[SoCalSkins]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

Was watching some Marino highlights and thought of him before as a comparison to Haskins, and even more so now. They both appear to be “arm throwers”, don’t engage the core or legs as much as some others. It’s interesting, they both have that awkward type athleticism when on the move with Haskins being a step and half faster maybe. 
 

Thoughts?

  
Marino is arguably the greatest QB ever. You are seriously comparing the dude who threw 3 picks in his first half of football to Marino who started as a rookie with a 12-4 record in an era when rookies never started? Haskins equivalent at this point is Ryan Leaf. And that’s being generous. There was legitimate debate to pick Leaf over Peyton Manning. 
 

Haskins is a bust. His attitude is garbage and if another coach is forced to make him the starter we will end up with Zorn 2.0. Let’s pretend McLaurin was the first round pick and move on. Dwayne is a complete bust. We can pretend we need more time to get to that conclusion but we don’t. It’s a sunk cost at this point. Let’s not make it worse by pretending.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

Can someone tell me the question that was asked? Finlay says someone asked DH about the "reports that he might not be ready for NFL action"...was that how it was asked? I can't quite make it out other than something at the end like "How do you process that" or something.

[desertbeagle85]

5 hours ago, ggarriso said:

Another week another incident where "Simba" (lol) makes a stupid comment showing his ass for everyone to see, what a "joke"..  Never seen someone so entitled when all he has done is thrown picks to 4th stringers and one of the worst defenses in the league.  Still calling the bust, and i'll be back to own if if it turns out differently

 

 

 

No you won't you'll hide like everyone else calling him a bust after 2 quarters of NFL action.

 

I think some of you forget he's 22 years old. Baker Mayfield says stupid **** every week and people have been all over his balls for the last year. Even though the guy has been trash all year.