Cooked Crack Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Quote Christiane C. didn’t think anything of it when her 10-year-old daughter and a friend uploaded a video of themselves playing in a backyard pool. “The video is innocent, it’s not a big deal,” said Christiane, who lives in a Rio de Janeiro suburb. A few days later, her daughter shared exciting news: The video had thousands of views. Before long, it had ticked up to 400,000 — a staggering number for a video of a child in a two-piece bathing suit with her friend. Quote YouTube’s automated recommendation system — which drives most of the platform’s billions of views by suggesting what users should watch next — had begun showing the video to users who watched other videos of prepubescent, partially clothed children, a team of researchers has found. YouTube had curated the videos from across its archives, at times plucking out the otherwise innocuous home movies of unwitting families, the researchers say. In many cases, its algorithm referred users to the videos after they watched sexually themed content Quote The video of Christiane’s daughter was promoted by YouTube’s systems months after the company was alerted that it had a pedophile problem. In February, Wired and other news outlets reported that predators were using the comment section of YouTube videos with children to guide other pedophiles. That month, calling the problem “deeply concerning,” YouTube disabled comments on many videos with children in them. But the recommendation system, which remains in place, has gathered dozens of such videos into a new and easily viewable repository, and pushed them out to a vast audience. Quote But YouTube has not put in place the one change that researchers say would prevent this from happening again: turning off its recommendation system on videos of children, though the platform can identify such videos automatically. The company said that because recommendations are the biggest traffic driver, removing them would hurt “creators” who rely on those clicks. It did say it would limit recommendations on videos that it deems as putting children at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Release the list of to leo’s... so they can track the IPs... So much for googles “Don’t be evil” motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 This is technology working against us. The algorithm doesn't have morals, its not coded for that. I blame youtube for allowing it to happen, I don't believe they didn't forsee this or had no way of knowing it was going on. It's google, jr, in regards to search requests and people keeping track of them and trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Release the list of to leo’s... so they can track the IPs... So much for googles “Don’t be evil” motto. This is completely impractical. Release a list of 400,000 users who watched a video to the police? What exactly are the police supposed to do with that? Track every single one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, mistertim said: This is completely impractical. Release a list of 400,000 users who watched a video to the police? What exactly are the police supposed to do with that? Track every single one of them? I imagine there is some automation to the process, or, at least could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, mistertim said: This is completely impractical. Release a list of 400,000 users who watched a video to the police? What exactly are the police supposed to do with that? Track every single one of them? YouTube should say today who it has confirmed consistent traffic of watching kids in limited clothing if the algorithm can tell them, that should go to the authorities to ask if it links with any of their suspects and pending investigations, offer it at least. Put out they are watching for it and will release any suspicious behavior to the authorities. This is something that was being abused, YouTube has the ability to confirm the abusers. YouTube has the power as a platform to not allow itself as a conduit for softcore child porn and let that be clear. No, you don't have the right to surf our platform all day looking at half naked kids, that was never the intent that is not what it's for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I imagine there is some automation to the process, or, at least could be. On the YouTube/Google end, sure. But not on the police end. YouTube could find ways to alter it's AI/ML algorithms to try and track users who watched a bunch of these videos and correlate it with their other habits. But even if they did collect that and gave a huge ass list to the police, the policed don't have the man power to work all of that and they certainly don't have an army full of coders to write programs to track and correlate. I know IT people who have done contract work for police departments and even the rich ass counties have antiquated or ****ty systems. Also, how much can the police actually do with the info that YouTube gave them? That isn't a rhetorical question...I'm really curious. Old guys watching videos online of kids in bathing suits is disgusting and creepy as **** but is it enough for the police to get a warrant for something? It seems like a weird grey area where there isn't anything technically illegal being done but everyone knows what's really going on. Pretty ****ed up situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 My initial instinct is that we shouldn’t shape our society around the behavior of sickos. I worry that we’re drowning our kids in fear. They’re targeted for political reasons, where they are told society is essentially evil and the world is about to end, and that it’s on them to fix it. They imagine dying in a school shooting, despite it being extremely unlikely. They’re denied the ability to play, as kids have done since time immemorial, because the media convinced parents that kidnappers lurk behind every bush and in every shadowed place. Fear is poison and kids are getting too much of it. Each single issue is perfectly justifiable, but cumulatively, it’s too much. Now we’re going to tell them that they can’t take pictures at the pool because some sick **** might consider it sexual? Or that YouTube won’t promote their videos because sick adults like to watch kids? That’s going to feel punitive to them, and add another fear to the pile we heap upon their shoulders. We have to find a better way to handle things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I just don't think minors (or at least pre-high school) should be on the internet (their pictures, videos, etc.). No problem with them using the internet, but don't think they should be "visible" on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, Destino said: We have to find a better way to handle things like this. Fear is as American as apple pie. Kids are going to find out how real the world is anyway, many of them have more access to the creepy stuff on the web then we did when we were younger. We've desensitized an entire generation of kids into thinking Fortinite is not a shooting game and school shootings are normal. The world has changed for them and their future, they know it, begging us to do something about it. Banning videos isn't the fix, putting the resources towards the things all the fear is about can be done, that's the other way. Feds had the PRISM program, they can handle that much data if local police districts can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Vilandil Tasardur said: I just don't think minors (or at least pre-high school) should be on the internet (their pictures, videos, etc.). No problem with them using the internet, but don't think they should be "visible" on it. Enforcing this would be a bad idea and wouldn't be any easier then trying to figure out what to limit what they can post. I would be fine banning sexually explicit content of themselves if they are underage, go so far as to ban teenagers twerking on youtube and facebook. Sometimes there's "why not?", and then there's "why aren't you already doing it?" Either you are or are not condoning the behavior, have to pick one, youtube was condoning the behavior in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Destino said: My initial instinct is that we shouldn’t shape our society around the behavior of sickos. I worry that we’re drowning our kids in fear. They’re targeted for political reasons, where they are told society is essentially evil and the world is about to end, and that it’s on them to fix it. They imagine dying in a school shooting, despite it being extremely unlikely. They’re denied the ability to play, as kids have done since time immemorial, because the media convinced parents that kidnappers lurk behind every bush and in every shadowed place. The article says most of the videos are drawn from Latin America and Eastern Europe. I'm guessing the fear over here got people making videos private or ignoring the YouTube all together. 8 hours ago, mistertim said: Also, how much can the police actually do with the info that YouTube gave them? That isn't a rhetorical question...I'm really curious. Old guys watching videos online of kids in bathing suits is disgusting and creepy as **** but is it enough for the police to get a warrant for something? It seems like a weird grey area where there isn't anything technically illegal being done but everyone knows what's really going on. Pretty ****ed up situation. Can't imagine you'll be able to get a warrant on someone watching something that's legal and supposed to be nonsexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Isn't this as simple as requiring an adult opt-in for videos to show up on recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 So Youtube straight up said that they know they could reduce the amount of recommendations that put children at risk....buuut that would also hurt revenue so its not going to happen. The technology is not the problem here. 1 minute ago, bearrock said: Isn't this as simple as requiring an adult opt-in for videos to show up on recommendations? Hurts revenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Why is a 10 year old posting videos on YT anyways? I'm not saying these pedo's are doing anything okay, but there is a bit of responsibility of the parents for letting a 10 year old post videos in bathing suits online. God damnit I hate social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, bearrock said: Isn't this as simple as requiring an adult opt-in for videos to show up on recommendations? you can control recommendations now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 35 minutes ago, purbeast said: Why is a 10 year old posting videos on YT anyways? I'm not saying these pedo's are doing anything okay, but there is a bit of responsibility of the parents for letting a 10 year old post videos in bathing suits online. God damnit I hate social media. That was my first thought, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 26 minutes ago, twa said: you can control recommendations now Can you control whether your video shows up on other people's recommendations? If so, it seems like primary responsibility falls on the parents. (Although YouTube could do their part by requiring opt-in instead of opt out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I would argue that a lot of parents are not tech savvy. I think I'm not ignorant about tech and I never considered the possibility of a pedophile network using YouTube to find videos. Now that someone put it out there—I'm thinking yeah, that makes sense. In a "space" where there are billions of videos how would "my kids" playing in the yard in their bathing suits even be served up to pedophiles? Frankly, it's not the first thing I'm thinking of. I'm thinking oh grandma can now see this and share it with her friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 people post and grant access to their vids and pics all the time w/o thinking who has access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Release the list of to leo’s... so they can track the IPs... So much for googles “Don’t be evil” motto. Google gave that up long ago. I seem to recall a new CEO laughing at it, but that could have been figurative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Lots of things making me squeamish about this topic. (And not just creepy guys trolling for kid bathing suit pictures.) But some of the solutions being proposed, too. We're tracking about having YouTube contacting law enforcement to go check on people for watching legal videos, which YouTube pointed them at? Maybe an idea: Give the person posting a video the option of "Do not recommend this video". Now Grandma can go to my YouTube page and see the grandkids at the pool, but Youtube won't be pointing thousands of complete strangers at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Just now, Larry said: Maybe an idea: Give the person posting a video the option of "Do not recommend this video". Now Grandma can go to my YouTube page and see the grandkids at the pool, but Youtube won't be pointing thousands of complete strangers at it. There already is an option for unlisted videos that only people with direct links can watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Larry said: Maybe an idea: Give the person posting a video the option of "Do not recommend this video". Now Grandma can go to my YouTube page and see the grandkids at the pool, but Youtube won't be pointing thousands of complete strangers at it. 1 hour ago, PokerPacker said: There already is an option for unlisted videos that only people with direct links can watch. Yeah, just checked and on the page uploading a video, you have options ranging from public, unlisted, and private. The default is public and I assume that many people never even notice that option, but the option is there. I think in this scenario, the ultimate responsibility falls on the parents, but YouTube could implement easy changes to avoid attention grabbing headlines in places like the NYT (the article is quite poor in my opinion. At minimum, they need to discuss good practices for parents to follow when posting videos online). When videos with children are identified, make the video private by default and send message to the uploader saying that they have the option of affirmatively making the video public. Those messages should explain the potential ramifications of making the video public and perhaps give the uploader an option to make the video public, but not be subject to recommendations. For content creators who operate commercial channels, they can have the option of having them affirmatively opt in to making all their videos public by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 My daughter is 7 and wants a youtube channel. She watches videos of other kids opening toys, playing with toys, playing video games etc etc......personally I have no idea why she finds that stuff entertaining, but I assume because it's kids doing the videos? My main objection to creating a page for her isn't her age, it's that she really has no idea how to really make a video other than click record on the camera app....the videos would be a mess and I have no time or patience to edit them for her. Stories like the OP is what has me hesitant to throw her into that ring just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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