mistertim Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: He can say that, but house to send Sargent in arms to get people, Bush 2 did it. So then its do the Fed LE follow an order that is against the law with their own careers on the line. True, at that point it would probably be up to those LE people as to whether they follow through and if so how far they're willing to go. Either way I think it's a moot point. As I said, Pelosi doesn't have the spine to do it. None of the Dem leadership does. They'll just send strongly worded letters of disapproval, then take it to the courts, where it will sit and sit and sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 There's no way the WH or the DoJ will comply with the House. They simply don't think they have to and the House has already shown this to be exactly the case. This impeachment inquiry/process is setting the stage for a complete undressing of the House of Representatives and in the long run, Congress. Honestly there's really nothing the House can do. All of their "powers of control" depend on another branch and quite frankly, Trump holds all the cards in the other branches. He's done it. He's taken over the government. The House democrats stand literally against the Executive and Judicial branches AND the Senate. They're screwed. I'm proud of them for FINALLY taking some action but it's way too little and way too late. Their only chance was to impeach immediately after Helsinki. At least at that point there was no Bill Barr and the Supreme Court wasn't yet stacked with Trumpers. I pray... PRAY that I'm wrong... but to me it just looks like we're stuck with Donald J. Trump until he dies. He's got "F you" power now. Oh- and tragically, this idea to "just say no" to congressional subpoena was started under Obama when Eric Holder refused and his DoJ backed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, mistertim said: True, at that point it would probably be up to those LE people as to whether they follow through and if so how far they're willing to go. Either way I think it's a moot point. As I said, Pelosi doesn't have the spine to do it. None of the Dem leadership does. They'll just send strongly worded letters of disapproval, then take it to the courts, where it will sit and sit and sit. We'll have to see. If turtle is saying he has no choice but allow trial, this showing that we are coming close to a line some wont cross, even him. Up until this point we didnt think Pelosi had spine to get to this point, Trump is pushing everyone into making a choice where inaction isnt one of them. If anything this is the ultimate test of the constitution and the forward thinking the founders tried to build in to protect against someone like this. I fully expect books to get pulled off the shelf and dust blown off them like some Indiana Jones flick in every rule that can be put on the table to deal with this. If Trump is going to look for every legal hole possible, the proper response if find every legal way possible to stop him. I want to see what a co-equal branch kf government actually looks like. I'm starting to get the feeling even turtle knows there are some things more important then winning. That doesnt mean I expect anything less then a party line vote in the senate trial, but he gave green light to a house vote. And I dont believe every GOP member in the senate would want a constitution crisis walking into an election year. If a party line vote was set in stone, McConnell wouldnt of wanted the whistleblower account released to congress as well, the cracks are real because the stakes are now starting them in the face. Situation in the ground is changing as we speak if 49% of the country supports impeachment now, which is what Pelosi wanted before even considering impeachment, she started inquiry before we crossed 50%, which is inevitable now at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: If turtle is saying he has no choice but allow trial, this showing that we are coming close to a line some wont cross, even him. Up until this point we didnt think Pelosi had spine to get to this point, Trump is pushing everyone into making a choice where inaction isnt one of them. He's playing opossum because he knows they won't convict. "Sure, we'll hold a trial. We have to." This means nothing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, Chachie said: He's playing opossum because he knows they won't convict. "Sure, we'll hold a trial. We have to." This means nothing to him. That's very different from violating the constitution because he wants to protect Trump. He knows he cant do that legally and deciding not to try, that's a bigger deal then is being made considering how much the executive branch is violating the constitution and daring the other two branches of government to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: That's very different from violating the constitution because he wants to protect Trump. He knows he cant do that legally and deciding not to try, that's a bigger deal then is being made considering how much the executive branch is violating the constitution and daring the other two branches of government to do something about it. Daring half of ONE branch, you mean. The Senate and the Judicial are in his pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chachie said: Daring half of ONE branch, you mean. The Senate and the Judicial are in his pocket. I'll give you that the court is stacked in his favor, but my point is there is a line hes careening towards that not everyone is willing to cross with him. I really believe he needs more support then he thinks he has, because I'm sure some are thinking about what precedent this would set if a liberal version of Trump ever showed up. I remember that coming up about what if a liberal president started reapproriating funds from congress for climate change saying it was a threat to the country. I mean technically thats true, but is that the way we really want to do things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 We may have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 That peach emoji is code for ass and is what my wife sends me when she's letting me know it's on when I get home. I don't know about impeachment anymore but I am hella turned on... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'll give you that the court is stacked in his favor, but my point is there is a line hes careening towards that not everyone is willing to cross with him. I really believe he needs more support then he thinks he has, because I'm sure some are thinking about what precedent this would set if a liberal version of Trump ever showed up. I remember that coming up about what if a liberal president started reapproriating funds from congress for climate change saying it was a threat to the country. I mean technically thats true, but is that the way we really want to do things? That would require free and fair elections.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'll give you that the court is stacked in his favor, but my point is there is a line hes careening towards that not everyone is willing to cross with him. I really believe he needs more support then he thinks he has, because I'm sure some are thinking about what precedent this would set if a liberal version of Trump ever showed up. I see those people as having already walked up to that line many, many times in the last 3 years... and tip-toed back from it. He's got dirt on them all or they'd have already gone "patriot" on his a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said: We may have to. Ya know, if hinted at this before, but biggest hope if the Dems beat Trump is to close as many constitutional loopholes as we can. The founding fathers did what they could with what they had, but they weren't perfect and neither is the constitution. Theres absolutely been demagogues from the left in other countries, I'm not convinced it can never happen here. And I'm not going to be cool with it just because I'm a liberal, it's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chachie said: I see those people as having already walked up to that line many, many times in the last 3 years... and tip-toed back from it. He's got dirt on them all or they'd have already gone "patriot" on his a$$. Very true, but the whole world is waiting to see if its finally crossed. This is bigger then "wanting my team to win", this is crucial point in human history with democracy in full retreat around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I agree with Hawley they might as well hold the vote now, clear as day he should be impeached, but we all know that hus friends will let him off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Of course the GOP would want a vote for impeachment now, the sooner, the better for them. The longer the inquiry plays out, the more information is going to come out. What we have been hearing in the past week is likely the very tip of the iceberg. Now it is a matter of getting officials to comply with subpoenas and/or finding out what the consequences of not complying are. For example what is one of their main talking points right now, "this is all based on hearsay" Well that is exactly why they aren't voting for impeachment right now, because they likely want to hear from the whistleblower and..........FURTHER INVESTIGATE his claims, and you go up the chain of command to get corroboration on his testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Three years, for three years now, I've been saying "this is the one". This is the crime that gets him, this is the scandal, this is the coverup, etc. Finally, I think this is the actual one. Every other "incident", had some type of plausible deniability, confusion, misdirection and whatnot. However, this Ukraine thing seems pretty black and white, it even seems to go pretty high up the food chain. If there are tapes (Lordy, let there be tapes), well just put a bow on the damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I had a literal outburst of laughter reading the headline: "Trump wants to interview the whistleblower" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 So Lindsey obviously will get caught up in this. His appearances lately are very Guliani like. I just wonder what it is they have on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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