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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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2019 5th rounder, Darius Slayton, looks like he's going to have a future in the NFL.  I don't remember anything about him from scouting for the last draft.  Not sure what to consider for this.  His dominator rating is OK, but nothing special.  Maybe something to be said for being the best WR on your college team for more than a year and having a great athletic profile at the combine?

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1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

Hypothetically, say the draft order ends up being:

 

1). Cinci-

2). Skins-

3). NYG

4). Miami

5). Detroit

6). Cards

7). Jags

8). Atl

 

The Falcons need to win now and are always in search for stars.  Would you trade down from 2 to 8 in exchange for the Falcons. 2nd, 4th, and a 2021 1st rounder?

 

The draft then goes:

1). Cinci-Burrow

2). ATL (From skins)-Young

3). NYG-Jeudy

4). Miami-Tua

5). Lions-Okudah

6). Az-Thomas

7). Jags-Delpit

8). Skins-Simmons

 

 

 

I would do that in a heartbeat.

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@stevemcqueen1 How would you say Okudah compares to prior corners taken in the top 10 like Marshon Lattimore and Denzel Ward? Is he on their level or a step above/below?

 

Even though Moreau has stepped up in recent weeks, I still don't think we can count on the guy as a starter next year. On top of that, Dunbar is always hurt. CB is a need and an elite one would be a gamechanger for this D.

 

 

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I get trading down and don't necessarily oppose it.

 

But I also think we lack top end firepower.  Those once a draft kind of guys: Christian McCaffery, Nick Bosa, Aaron Donald types.  If Chase Young were there at two, I would take him. Yes you need to be solid through the middle of your roster, but you also need an uber freak star or two. Those type of guys make other guys better so there's a multiplying effect to having them.

Edited by Stadium-Armory
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8 hours ago, method man said:

@stevemcqueen1 How would you say Okudah compares to prior corners taken in the top 10 like Marshon Lattimore and Denzel Ward? Is he on their level or a step above/below?

 

Even though Moreau has stepped up in recent weeks, I still don't think we can count on the guy as a starter next year. On top of that, Dunbar is always hurt. CB is a need and an elite one would be a gamechanger for this D.

 

He compares well.  His man coverage and quickness and speed are as good as theirs.  There probably isn't a WR in college that can consistently beat him down the field.  He's a glove.  He's also a good leaper and has long arms.  Press, bail, and off man are all basically as good as you're going to get from a prospect.  His zone coverage is alright but the recognition on underneath stuff is slow to the point he seems to concede it.  The extreme click and close speed is there though, it's a matter of aggressiveness and playing more instinctive in zone.  He's a cautious player in style.

 

I'd say that kind of playmaking/ball skill is the one area he falls short of Ward and Lattimore.  He plays the man and isn't the ballhawk that they are.  But he will help outside of his area and he has a much better body than them and he is vastly more physical than Ward.  He can lay the lumber in run support and even play some deep safety.  He's not going to have trouble with all of the contact that comes with guarding physical outside receivers on an island.  And he doesn't have the chronic injury issues that have plagued Lattimore his whole football career.  For a team that wants to run a lot of man coverage, he is a no-brainer top five value.  Teams with more zone-centric schemes will put him lower, but he still offers high value to them too.  He'll go in the top ten.  He's one of the better cornerback prospects to come out in a while.

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7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The Giants really are straight up trash.

 

The odd thing about it is their last two drafts haven't been bad.   I think Chase Young is going to help give them a big jump.  They have one good pass rusher but nothing on the other side.  The middle of their D line is good, too.  their secondary though is shaky.   Their offense is terrible.  I am guessing Barkley's injury has hurt him because he's playing like just a guy. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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9 hours ago, CowboyKillerz said:

 

Interesting take... I dont think his routes are anywhere near as crisp as Terry.. But never heard anyone as down on that part of his game as you. Here in CO he is royalty, so i get he is over hyped locally. Ive watched and read some draft profiles and all point to good route running soft hands... Not the speed demon Djax is but has burst and breakaway speed. Kid is a threat at wr, qb (wild cat), rb, or kick returner to score at any moment. Opposite Terry or in the slot would be an upgrade over Quinn no doubt, Harmon, and does PRich still play football?

 

Ive marvelled over his games (in person) and haven't seen the guy you described. Any particular game? If you had said injury red flag... That i can agree with. He has been banged up all year and had surgery for labrum and toe I think... But when he plays he plays HARD AF. 

Kinda reminds me of Cordell Patterson but with better hands at wide out... And surely not as fast. But similar balance after contsct and extreme shiftyness.

 

Idk prolly just a local guy Im over hyping. Id be surprised to see him in the 2nd round much less the 3rd. 

 

Doubtful he will be a redskin tho, so that we can agree on

 

I get overhyped about players from certain areas too.  It's natural when you see more of them than other guys.  I think Laviska is going to end up going in the second round.  I don't think he'll  be a first round pick because of the lack of upside as an outside receiver due to the lack of verticality in his game.  That said, DJ Moore had some similar limitations and the Panthers took him towards the end of the first round.  My guess is he gets picked somewhere between 30-50.

 

His situation is reminiscent of AJ Brown's to me.  Brown was also overrated coming into last year as he was a consensus top ten pick in the early part of the season.  But as the process played out and his limitations were studied, he dropped and eventually went in a more appropriate range in the second round.  Laviska is a similar player to Brown.  Unorthodox athlete at the position who wins with strength, toughness, and shiftiness.  Laviska is a better runner after the catch, but Brown was a better route runner IMO.  Laviska is basically a big backfield runner and that style pretty much defines his strengths and weaknesses at the position.  He has rare YAC talent, but he also can't run high end routes and he isn't great at adjusting to throws down field and aggressively winning jump balls.  He's got a tell where he leans back and does a stutter step on his deep route breaks that makes him predictable for man covering deep.   On his outside breaks he tends to round those stems so he's running into the coverage and making it easy on them.  I just don't think he's super comfortable and confident in those parts of the passing game.  I'll try and make some gifs illustrating what I mean later on.

 

I think it's telling that Montez didn't look to him very often when he was in those parts of the field, and that Montez didn't treat him like a go-to receiver/pressure outlet.  He just wasn't getting open consistently enough on the outside.  Screen game and middle of the field is a different story.  He was much more comfortable operating in this area and showed a real knack for finding space in seams.  He likes the ball side breaks and he likes challenging linebackers and safeties in short spaces.  Combine this skill set with good quality as a blocker, both stalking and down blocking, and it's clear that Laviska's going to be a Big Slot in the NFL.  That lowers his draft value somewhat, but it's still and impactful and respectable role and guys like Keenan Allen and Tyler Boyd and JuJu Smith-Schuster have starred from it.  I like him for an outside zone running team in particular, where blocking in the slot has unusually high value.

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Been thinking about how TDN has Tylan Wallace ranked as a third round pick and Jacob Breeland in the fifth round and how their situations remind me of Bryce Love's.  Wallace is a first round talent pre-knee injury and Breeland is probably a second rounder before his leg injury.  We can probably take it for granted that we're not going to be good next year, thus do these kinds of injured star players who need a medical redshirt year not offer massive draft value to teams like us?  We can afford to wait on them.  Seems like one of the highest upside ways to use some of your middle round picks.

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@Panninho I think you're on to something with KJ Hill my friend.  These cut ups from his game against Minnesota last year are just awesome:

 

 

 

He's also a big part of the success of the outside zone running game that made Dobbins a star this season.

 

If we don't get someone good in round one or two, this is our guy.  Blue collar football-smart receiver like McLaurin.  Currently ranked #130 on TDN's big board, #201 on drafttek's big board, and not on CBS's big board (they don't go past 100).

 

Potential fourth round gem.

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17 hours ago, dyst said:

I would do that in a heartbeat.

 

I would only do that if someone took Chase Young at #1 overall. If you're at 2 and Young is at 2, you take him, period. The guy is going to be a superstar. Would you trade Aaron Donald, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, or Myles Garrett (pre taking his helmet to a guy's head) for a 2nd, 4th and future 1st? No thanks. A pass rusher like Chase Young could take our defense to a different level. Otherwise I'd be fine with trading down as I don't think there is any true "generational" talent outside of Young. 

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5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

@Panninho I think you're on to something with KJ Hill my friend.  These cut ups from his game against Minnesota last year are just awesome:

 

 

 

He's also a big part of the success of the outside zone running game that made Dobbins a star this season.

 

If we don't get someone good in round one or two, this is our guy.  Blue collar football-smart receiver like McLaurin.  Currently ranked #130 on TDN's big board, #201 on drafttek's big board, and not on CBS's big board (they don't go past 100).

 

Potential fourth round gem.

 

I don't have WR as a priority so to get a starter quality player at WR in the 4th round is probably the ideal draft outcome for me.

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9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He compares well.  His man coverage and quickness and speed are as good as theirs.  There probably isn't a WR in college that can consistently beat him down the field.  He's a glove.  He's also a good leaper and has long arms.  Press, bail, and off man are all basically as good as you're going to get from a prospect.  His zone coverage is alright but the recognition on underneath stuff is slow to the point he seems to concede it.  The extreme click and close speed is there though, it's a matter of aggressiveness and playing more instinctive in zone.  He's a cautious player in style.

 

I'd say that kind of playmaking/ball skill is the one area he falls short of Ward and Lattimore.  He plays the man and isn't the ballhawk that they are.  But he will help outside of his area and he has a much better body than them and he is vastly more physical than Ward.  He can lay the lumber in run support and even play some deep safety.  He's not going to have trouble with all of the contact that comes with guarding physical outside receivers on an island.  And he doesn't have the chronic injury issues that have plagued Lattimore his whole football career.  For a team that wants to run a lot of man coverage, he is a no-brainer top five value.  Teams with more zone-centric schemes will put him lower, but he still offers high value to them too.  He'll go in the top ten.  He's one of the better cornerback prospects to come out in a while.


Is it fair to say there is a very noticeable dropoff after him at the position? 
 

Given all the coverage busts over the past few years, I think this team should be playing man anyway. We have superior athletes at their position that don’t seem to be the most cerebral in guys like Montae and Fabian

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2 hours ago, method man said:


Is it fair to say there is a very noticeable dropoff after him at the position? 
 

 Given all the coverage busts over the past few years, I think this team should be playing man anyway. We have superior athletes at their position that don’t seem to be the most cerebral in guys like Montae and Fabian

 

I don't think the dropoff is that huge from him to the next group.  CJ Henderson and Kristian Fulton are really good and have flashed top ten ability at times.  Trevon Diggs can be dominant too.  I think all three are first round values.  And the second round corners look good too.  Shaun Wade has looked almost as good as Okudah in some of their games and he is very physical.  Jaylon Johnson is one of my favorite players in the class.  And depending on his injury recovery, Bryce Hall could be a strong option in the second round.  There are probably some other names that will end up in that range that I haven't evaluated yet.  I don't think the huge dropoff at corner will come until towards the end of the second round.  In an ideal world we would be able to get one or more of these kids, but I don't think we'll have the ammunition.

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Enough of the quarterbacks. What's the deepest position in this class?

McShay: I have 15 wide receivers ranked among my top 64 prospects. That's not normal. Over the past three drafts, there have been an average of 7.7 receivers taken in the first two rounds. We could blow that out of the water in 2020.

It all starts with Alabama's Jerry Jeudy, one of the best college route runners I've ever evaluated. He's going to be an immediate high-impact player in the NFL. Oklahoma's CeeDee Lamb is a star, too. Both are in the top 10 in my rankings. Two other Alabama pass-catchers -- Henry Ruggs III and DeVonta Smith -- along with LSU's Justin Jefferson, Clemson's Tee Higgins, Arizona State's Brandon Aiyuk and Colorado's Laviska Shenault Jr. are all among my top 32 players. This is a deep receiver class.

 

How high could Jeudy go in this draft?

Kiper: He could go as high as No. 3. You're talking about an elite prospect, but no receiver has gone No. 1 since Keyshawn Johnson in 1996 or No. 2 since Calvin Johnson in 2007. It just doesn't happen.

 

Who's the burner of this wide receiver class?

McShay: It's Ruggs, whom I'd put an early wager on to run the fastest 40-yard dash at the combine. We're talking speed in the 4.3s. He can improve as a route runner, but this dude is a nightmare matchup because of how quickly he chews up a cushion from opposing defensive backs.

 

Over/under: 2.5 offensive tackles in Round 1?

Kiper: Over. There were four first-round offensive tackles in the 2019 class (and eight in the top 41 picks), and it's a good class again. Georgia's Andrew Thomas is a lock -- he's the top tackle on my board and a technician in pass protection. Tristan Wirfs (Iowa) and Alex Leatherwood (Alabama) are also likely first-rounders. Next up are Josh Jones (Houston), Jedrick Wills Jr. (Alabama) and Matt Peart (UConn).

 

What about running backs: Over/under 1.5 in the first round?

McShay: That's a tough one, but I'll go with the over. And the explosive D'Andre Swift out of Georgia and tough-to-take-down J.K. Dobbins from Ohio State would be my picks. They both project to go in the late first round or early second round. Dobbins might be the top pass-catching back in the class, too -- he has 65 catches over the past three seasons.

Wisconsin's Jonathan Taylor could also be in the mix for the first round, but he's more likely a Day 2 talent. And while Clemson's Travis Etienne has the ability to make a cut and go, he's a tier below that trio.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/insider/story/_/id/28231316/30-big-questions-2020-nfl-draft-kiper-mcshay-preview

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As for trading the 2nd overall:

 

 Young is a potential heisman edge rusher, in demand from every team in the league. He’s a guarantee. Just as Bosa was a guarantee. That kind of talent can transform a defense. Atlanta’s 8th overall, a 2nd, 4th, and future 1st doesn’t cut it for me. 

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6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I would only do that if someone took Chase Young at #1 overall. If you're at 2 and Young is at 2, you take him, period. The guy is going to be a superstar. Would you trade Aaron Donald, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, or Myles Garrett (pre taking his helmet to a guy's head) for a 2nd, 4th and future 1st? No thanks. A pass rusher like Chase Young could take our defense to a different level. Otherwise I'd be fine with trading down as I don't think there is any true "generational" talent outside of Young. 

I agree with all you said but Rams, Raiders, Broncos struggle even with those guys except for when the team itself was strong. The Skins are so bad and need so much help that one guy wouldnt help that much. With that said, it would be hard to pass up elite players.

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14 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

@Panninho I think you're on to something with KJ Hill my friend.  These cut ups from his game against Minnesota last year are just awesome:

 

He's also a big part of the success of the outside zone running game that made Dobbins a star this season.

 

If we don't get someone good in round one or two, this is our guy.  Blue collar football-smart receiver like McLaurin.  Currently ranked #130 on TDN's big board, #201 on drafttek's big board, and not on CBS's big board (they don't go past 100).

 

Potential fourth round gem.

That's one of the few games I watched live last year. KJ Hill was incredible and open all game. It's a bit like Aaron Fuller who I also watched in one Washington game in 2018 where he had a very strong performance. Both returned for their senior year and then you hear almost nothing about them concerning the upcoming draft.

 

But thanks a lot for the insight, it's always highly appreciated. Would love to draft him in one of the later rounds.

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PFF on the receivers.  I throw in Reagor since he's been discussed some recently.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/insider/story/_/id/28169551/kiper-2020-nfl-draft-big-board-position-rankings-anybody-top-chase-young

1. Jerry Jeudy, Alabama

2019 stats: 101 targets, 71 receptions, 959 yards (487 YAC), 9 touchdowns, 14 broken tackles, 121.7 passer rating

2019 PFF grade: 83.2 overall, 83.8 receiving

 

Jeudy might not have quite the numbers he had a year ago, but he is a special prospect. Not many receivers around the country are fighting for targets with three other potential first-round receivers, so we'll give Jeudy a pass for only 959 yards this season. There isn't a single thing about the receiver position that Jeudy can't do at a high level. His route running is as good as it gets. His speed is such that last season he ran away from Ole Miss safety Zedrick Woods, who ran a 4.29 40-yard dash at the 2019 NFL combine. Jeudy has broken 30 tackles on 139 catches since the start of last season. It all adds up to a receiving weapon that can be deployed at any level of the field.

That's not to say there aren't some legit concerns with him as a prospect. Jeudy is an unknown against press coverage, having faced it only 62 times all season. The vast majority of routes in his career have come from the slot, which can often mean he's open via scheme and not necessarily beating a defender one-on-one. But we've seen more than enough of him leaving defensive backs in the dust over the past couple of seasons to be too worried.

Where he could be picked in the 2020 draft: The top three picks wouldn't be too high to take Jeudy. He's a special talent who won't leave the first half of Round 1.


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2. CeeDee Lamb, Oklahoma

2019 stats: 70 targets, 50 receptions, 1,033 yards (553 YAC), 14 touchdowns, 18 broken tackles, 147.3 passer rating

2019 PFF grade: 87.8 overall, 88.8 receiving

Even in a loaded receiver class, Lamb and Jeudy are still in a tier of their own. Lamb is the total package by any measure of receiver play. He has incredible ball skills, with only two drops on 52 catchable passes this season. The junior has arguably been the most electric player in the country after the catch, with 18 broken tackles and an 11.1 YAC average. While his 1,033 yards isn't eye-popping, Lamb's 3.81 yards per route is the highest in the class.

 

The only real knocks on Lamb are simply things we haven't quite seen him do. He has faced press coverage only 65 times this season and has only 38 contested-catch situations in his career (he has hauled in 19). He obviously plays in a favorable offense and conference for passing-game production, but that didn't stop teammate Marquise Brown, a first-round pick by the Ravens in 2019, from hitting the ground running in the NFL. If they were ranked in the same draft class, Lamb would be well ahead of Brown on our board. That's how highly we think of the Oklahoma star.

Where he could be picked in the 2020 draft: Lamb proved that he's second fiddle to no one this season. He's a true No. 1 who should be coveted by every team. No way he makes it past the top 15 picks.

 

6. Jalen Reagor, TCU

2019 stats: 89 targets, 43 receptions, 611 yards (141 YAC), 5 touchdowns, 5 broken tackles, 71.0 passer rating

2019 PFF grade: 69.1 overall, 66.9 receiving grade

No receiver in the country has suffered more from his situation the past couple of seasons than Reagor. It's not simply the shoddy quarterback play at TCU but also the offense around him. Defenses knew where Reagor was lining up snap after snap, as 653 of his 786 snaps last season came at right outside wide receiver. From there, TCU coaches made no effort to get the ball into their most dynamic playmaker's hands; Reagor was targeted on only 11 screens. In fact, 162 players in college football have seen more screen targets this year than Reagor. For a receiver who will almost surely run in the 4.3s and have a vertical jump around 40 inches, that's difficult to believe.

 

Reagor is yet another prospect who will have to let his 2018 tape do the talking. That season, he brought in 71 balls for 1,040 yards and nine scores. Even with one of the lowest-graded quarterbacks in the country, he put up legit numbers as a true sophomore. He didn't help himself this season with seven drops, but he has played bigger than his listed 5-foot-11, 195 pounds with 27 contested catches in his career.

Where he could be picked in the 2020 draft: Reagor's lack of production in 2019 could drop him into the second round. That'd be a steal for the team that gets him at that point.

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Haskins vs. Burrow would be odd for the simple fact they competed for the starting job after JT Barrett graduated at Ohio St. and Haskins won the job which is why Burrow transferred to LSU.   it would be a rematch.  That said, since the Bengals are going to likely take Burrow at 1 I don't think the skins will have that option.  Even if they had that option though, I would take Chase Young or Andrew Thomas before I took Burrow given Young's talent and the need at LT.

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On 12/10/2019 at 1:02 AM, Stadium-Armory said:

I get trading down and don't necessarily oppose it.

 

But I also think we lack top end firepower.  Those once a draft kind of guys: Christian McCaffery, Nick Bosa, Aaron Donald types.  If Chase Young were there at two, I would take him. Yes you need to be solid through the middle of your roster, but you also need an uber freak star or two. Those type of guys make other guys better so there's a multiplying effect to having them.

Young at 2 would be a no-brainer I think. But I think a dream scenario would be to swap 2 and 3. If we had 2 and say Miami at 3. I would drop from 2 to 3 and get Pittsburgh's 1st later in the draft. Let the Dolphins take Tua (assuming the medical check out), and take Young at 3. Or if you aren't really feeling Young (whcih I think would be dumb) you could probably leverage 3 to a team like Atlanta who may want to come up for Young. Then you could get their 2nd, 3rd and a 1st in 2021 ...

 

Then you'd be positioned with a Top 10 to take on an OT/ILB/CB/WR and a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd for other holes as BPA. Also the consideration of Trent getting us a late 1st or maybe a 2 and 3 to add to draft capital.

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26 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Young at 2 would be a no-brainer I think. But I think a dream scenario would be to swap 2 and 3. If we had 2 and say Miami at 3. I would drop from 2 to 3 and get Pittsburgh's 1st later in the draft. Let the Dolphins take Tua (assuming the medical check out), and take Young at 3. Or if you aren't really feeling Young (whcih I think would be dumb) you could probably leverage 3 to a team like Atlanta who may want to come up for Young. Then you could get their 2nd, 3rd and a 1st in 2021 ...

 

Then you'd be positioned with a Top 10 to take on an OT/ILB/CB/WR and a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd for other holes as BPA. Also the consideration of Trent getting us a late 1st or maybe a 2 and 3 to add to draft capital.

3 games left. The giants have to win 2 and we lose all three to get  #2. You all are discussing the best case draft scenario (which is a long shot) - Why not discuss worst case (we win 3 more games - also a long shot) - putting us in the 8-13 range for the draft. Or the two most likely scenarios we get #3 pick or win 1 more game and the pick is in the 4-6th range.

Edited by nonniey

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44 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Young at 2 would be a no-brainer I think. But I think a dream scenario would be to swap 2 and 3. If we had 2 and say Miami at 3. I would drop from 2 to 3 and get Pittsburgh's 1st later in the draft. Let the Dolphins take Tua (assuming the medical check out), and take Young at 3. Or if you aren't really feeling Young (whcih I think would be dumb) you could probably leverage 3 to a team like Atlanta who may want to come up for Young. Then you could get their 2nd, 3rd and a 1st in 2021 ...

 

Then you'd be positioned with a Top 10 to take on an OT/ILB/CB/WR and a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd for other holes as BPA. Also the consideration of Trent getting us a late 1st or maybe a 2 and 3 to add to draft capital.

 

The Dolphins wouldn't likely trade up with us simply because they would not expect us to take a QB.  They are not fools.  They know if we have the second pick we'll likely (and rightly IMO) take Chase Young.  Meaning whatever QB they would want at 2 would be available at 3.   Thus if they want a QB they are not going to trade up from 2 to 3 as they wouldn't gain anything.   The only reason they would trade up in my opinion is if they wanted Chase Young.

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