Trade up to draft Haskins???

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think you meant tanking not taking? 🙂  

 

I see no reason to ever tank. I hate that idea to be honest. Ok, it may lead us to permanent mediocrity but I just can't root for losing. So for me rolling with Colt just means not wasting resources on a QB when there are so many other parts of the team that need help, especially when you have over $20M tied up in a QB that cannot play - BTW - off topic i really think they should make it so people on IR do not count against the CAP. But I also hate gameday in-actives and think there should be a 62 man roster and still have 10 on the practice squad. All things the owners will never go for. Ok, enough of that rant. 

 

Pretty sure Peterson moves on. He can now go anywhere that needs a back and he can go to a team that has a chance of winning. That is not here. 

 

The rest - wow anyone guess at this point. This is the first season where I can honestly say I have no idea what they are going to do - other than I am pretty sure I am not going to like it. Not because of being predisposed to just not liking what they do - but because of the situation and how they operate, when I think of thier options how they seem to think, I do not like the answers I come up with.  

 

But maybe this time they will prove me wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

Ummm, no!...No, I meant to say "taking"...yeah....

 

 

(quietly goes back to fix his ****up lol...)

 

I agree with the rest of your post. Well except for Peterson moving on...he seems genuinely wanting to stay, talks about him and Guice training together, Skins were the only team that gave him a chance and the fanbase embraced him rather quickly.  He could end up on another team that benches him 3 games into the season or cuts/trades him...or maybe he won't match well with the coaches once the games start counting, as where Gruden seemed to legitimately show him respect. Plus he set several milestones and records this past year with the Redskins. Add in that he'll be 34 and I think he won't have too much of a problem choosing to stay here should we want him.

[OVCChairman]

17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is a fair point that I gave up on because of the reality of the situation.  Jay is the new Marvin Lewis and Bruce is the new Ernie Grunfield.  Neither are going anywhere.  Now what?

 

 

Then we use as many picks as we can to try and put as much talent on the field as we possibly can.  Talent can overcome a lot of shortcomings because at the end of the day execution is just as important as scheme.  it's still 11 on 11.  WE could call the same run play over and over (like Jay likes to do), and if all 9 players (not including our QB and RB) execute or block the way they're supposed to, the play will work more times than it doesn't.  The last thing that I want to do in that scenario is then trade away assets, whether it be picks or players.  

 

PERSONALLY, get as many talented players as you can and you hope enough of them make enough plays.  Marquise Brown stands out because he can take a slant and go the distance.  Any NFL caliber QB can throw a slant.  I stock the line as well... I dont care if we take 3 O-lineman in this draft and let them beat the crap out of eachother in camp.  Find the meanest, angriest O-lineman you can find.  

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Then we use as many picks as we can to try and put as much talent on the field as we possibly can.  Talent can overcome a lot of shortcomings because at the end of the day execution is just as important as scheme.  it's still 11 on 11.  WE could call the same run play over and over (like Jay likes to do), and if all 9 (not including our QB and RB) block the way they're supposed to, the play will work more times than it doesn't.  The last thing that I want to do in that scenario is then trade away assets, whether it be picks or players.  

 

PERSONALLY, get as many talented players as you can and you hope enough of them make enough plays.  Marquise Brown stands out because he can take a slant and go the distance.  Any NFL caliber QB can throw a slant.  I stock the line as well... I dont care if we take 3 O-lineman in this draft and let them beat the crap out of eachother in camp.  Find the meanest, angriest O-lineman you can find.  

 

You are thinking about this too logically, like Spock or some ****.  

 

I feel you, 110, but none of the execution will matter if its lead by a bad QB, we've seen that for years, we saw that last year with 4 different QBs.  I'm sorry, but nothing we do right will matter if we don't get a franchise QB.  Stocking up picks sounds good if I had faith we'd make the most of them, but we won't, so again, we need a QB to help make up for that.

 

This isn't a franchise poised to "turn it around" anytime soon, so we need a QB to help keep us relevant while we keep batting 500 on personell and front office moves.

 

I really enjoy having this convo with ya'll, but again, this is isnt' about what ya'll wish we would do, because quit frankly, we aren't going to do that.  This is a rediculous idea I can see us doing that I would support considering what would happen if we go into next season with another inept QB situation and worse the Giants getting a new Franchise QB to transition right out of Eli.  We're going to lose this area if we don't get desperate.

[DC9]

This may seem a little disengenious after his recent performance, but I've never really been sold on Tua.

 

He absolutely stinks of Tim Tebow with a better arm for me, right down to being left handed.

 

I REALLY like Haskins.  Like, really like him.

 

It would depend on the bounty but I voted yes.

 

I say that with the concern that we don't have the weapons at WR and TE and we still need to be able to get a LG in.  I would hope we would be able to do that with our 3rd for Cousins since we can't trade that, but I know next to nothing about interior depth in this draft.

 

If this is the dude that Smith likes, do it.

[OVCChairman]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You are thinking about this too logically, like Spock or some ****.  

 

I feel you, 110, but none of the execution will matter if its lead by a bad QB, we've seen that for years, we saw that last year with 4 different QBs.  I'm sorry, but nothing we do right will matter if we don't get a franchise QB.  Stocking up picks sounds good if I had faith we'd make the most of them, but we won't, so again, we need a QB to help make up for that.

 

This isn't a franchise poised to "turn it around" anytime soon, so we need a QB to help keep us relevant while we keep batting 500 on personell and front office moves.

 

I really enjoy having this convo with ya'll, but again, this is isnt' about what ya'll wish we would do, because quit frankly, we aren't going to do that.  This is a rediculous idea I can see us doing that I would support considering what would happen if we go into next season with another inept QB situation and worse the Giants getting a new Franchise QB to transition right out of Eli.  We're going to lose this area if we don't get desperate.

 

 

I actually dont agree.  I think were a lot closer than people think, because the head of the franchise seems so lost.  In fairness, you asked the question if this is what we should do, and I don't think it is.  I'm actually looking at it with the idea that Bruce and Jay are still here, and not falling back on the FIRE EVERYONE type feeling... even though I think it happens after next year, UNLESS we trade a lot to go up and get Haskins... just another piece of the spectacle for Bruce to sell to Dan as a 'positive move' for the franchise, thus convincing Dan to keep him around even longer.  Part of the reason I said "no" to going and getting him is because of that fact.  

 

We have a good core of players that a good HC and a couple key pieces breaking the right way, could make some noise.  No i'm not suggesting we could win a SB, but I think we could control this division for a couple more years at least.  Yes, I agree that a QB is one of those pieces, but I think a couple pieces this year, paired with one of the 1st round QBs in next years draft could put us into legit contention... If we have a new HC (obviously the 'right' guy) going into that season and the chances are even better.  

[Renegade7]

@OVCChairman most of our core is only good when they stay healthy and they don't.  It nullifies their potential, I started a thread about that before season started and second year in a row they've used that built in excuse to buy more time. 

 

Bruh, Jay isn't going anywhere anytime soon and neither is Bruce, we have to stop looking at what to do out of fear it will save their job, these guys are straight bulletproof right now.

[Forehead]

I'm going to vote no.  Now admittedly, my sample size is pretty small, I only watched two Ohio State games this season and they clearly weren't where Haskins looked his best.

 

The first was the Penn State game, naturally.  Haskins numbers look okay in that game, 22-39 for 270, 3 TD's and an Int, but the real story was how the game played out.  Prior to the game, some Penn State guys who had played against Haskins in high school talked about how he was weak mentally and didn't like being hit.  Why they chose to say it publicly, who knows.  However, they backed it up.  Penn State's defense knocked the snot out of him all game.  And what I saw from Haskins for the majority of the first three quarters was a guy who was running away, throwing off of his back foot, throwing floaters or immediate checkdowns/screens to avoid getting hit, and getting a lot of catch and run yardage.

 

However, Ohio State's defense was really, really good...and Penn State's offense didn't move the ball for the entire 3rd quarter.  By the 4th, the defense was exhausted and Haskins was able to throw a few TD passes and pull out the come from behind victory.  I will give him all the credit for hanging in there, taking a beating, and winning in the end, but what i saw for most of this game was a guy who I don't think will hold up well when professional players are hitting him constantly.  I have been far more impressed by what I saw with Tua, and this Trevor Lawrence kid.  Ignoring the throws he's making at age 19, what impressed me most about Lawrence was the way he stayed in the pocket and delivered passes knowing Alabama was going to drill him.  I did not see that from Haskins in the Penn State game.

 

The only other Ohio State game I caught was the one where they randomly got boat raced by Purdue.  The box score shows that Hasking threw for 470 yards but I don't remember him at all, I mostly remember Purdue's running back and that one slot receiver shredding the defense.

 

Haskins stats don't lie, but the TL:DR version is, I was not at all impressed with what I saw in my extremely limited sample size, and I would not spend any resources to move up for him.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

@OVCChairman most of our core is only good when they stay healthy and they don't.  It nullifies their potential, I started a thread about that before season started and second year in a row they've used that built in excuse to buy more time. 

 

Bruh, Jay isn't going anywhere anytime soon and neither is Bruce, we have to stop looking at what to do out of fear it will save their job, these guys are straight bulletproof right now.

 

 

I don't think they are though... Jay has 2 years left of on his deal, so this is generally the season that most organizations (I know we're not most organizations) make their decision to help avoid the 'lame duck' season of the final year of a coaches deal.  Now if we some how extend him this offseason, then we're in a whole different situation.  I think this is it though.  If he doesn't make the playoffs this year, regardless of excuses (UNLESS we go all in on Haskins) then I think hes gone.  I think Bruce goes with him because another down season is going to further display empty stadiums and embarrassing ESPN columns.  i don't think Dan can even stomach another season of that, and I don't think Bruce has the ability to change that without some blockbuster type move... And if Dan moves Bruce to the 'marketing' side of things and it continues on this trend.... 

[justice98]

58 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

Is this really a question?  A million times "NO".

 

1) He's not that good.

2) Skins are 53 players away from being a good team not 1.

3) He's a Giants fan.

 

The end.

 

Everybody's a fan of somebody.  Cant be out here disqualifying people because they were fans of a another team.  

[OVCChairman]

@Renegade7

 

BTW I've been screaming about firing Gruden, but more and more it makes more sense to keep him for the 2019 season because we have A LOT of factors working against us, that wont be as bad after next season... if nothing else because the Alex Smith situation will be a lot clearer regarding if he will return or not, and there likely won't be nearly as many HC vacancies (8) as their were this year.   That alone gives us a better shot at getting a higher caliber candidate. 

 

 

That's giving the Redskins a lot of credit for having some forethought which is probably not the best idea... but calling a spade a spade, why would anyone WANT to come here right now when there are all these other options out there with better situations. 

 

 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

@Renegade7

 

That's giving the Redskins a lot of credit for having some forethought which is probably not the best idea... but calling a spade a spade, why would anyone WANT to come here right now when there are all these other options out there with better situations. 

 

 

 

Ya,it's not that I disagree with your logic, I kept trying to say that at beginning of my OP. 

 

My problem (and I keep trying the come back to) is this front office isn't acting logically and everybody knows that except them, so this may be only way to make up for that.  Will Snyder eventually figure it out, I hope so, I believe so, but I'm directly witnessing the damage being done in the meantime and it frightens me.

 

We are running out of time.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya,it's not that I disagree with your logic, I kept trying to say that at beginning of my OP. 

 

My problem (and I keep trying the come back to) is this front office isn't acting logically, so this may be only way to make up for that.  Will Snyder eventually figure it out, I hope so, I believe so, but I'm directly witnessing the damage being done in the meantime and it frightens me.

 

We are running out of time.

 

 

It's possible, but I actually think it perpetuates the problem, because I do see the end in sight.  That might be irresponsible and not a reality, but I see it.  If there is one thing Dan has done since he's been here, it's always been that he pays attention to the stands on Sunday.  When it got bad with Cerrato, it got really bad and Dan finally moved on.  When it got bad with Shanny with the constant leaks and terrible news reports, the fans made it known and Dan moved on.  He drags his feet for his 'boys' but he's always been one for optics.  If we see another season where the stadium resembles a HS Freshman football game... He's going to have had enough.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

It's possible, but I actually think it perpetuates the problem, because I do see the end in sight.  That might be irresponsible and not a reality, but I see it.  If there is one thing Dan has done since he's been here, it's always been that he pays attention to the stands on Sunday.  When it got bad with Cerrato, it got really bad and Dan finally moved on.  When it got bad with Shanny with the constant leaks and terrible news reports, the fans made it known and Dan moved on.  He drags his feet for his 'boys' but he's always been one for optics.  If we see another season where the stadium resembles a HS Freshman football game... He's going to have had enough.

 

That's what bothers me most about this. Because up until this season I really believed you and agreed with you.  I will thought that eagles game would be enough, I didn't want to believe he needed an entire season of that in 2019 to get it, and if he does then we really are in trouble.

 

There's only so many places to go with my feelings on Snyder if 2019 looks like a worse version of 2018, which was a worse version of 2017, but still holds firm with his boys.  Which is what I predict will happen if we dont get them a QB, hell get suckered into the injury excuse again and Jay trying to get most out of it and buy them more time.

[HardcoreZorn]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

It's possible, but I actually think it perpetuates the problem, because I do see the end in sight.  That might be irresponsible and not a reality, but I see it.  If there is one thing Dan has done since he's been here, it's always been that he pays attention to the stands on Sunday.  When it got bad with Cerrato, it got really bad and Dan finally moved on.  When it got bad with Shanny with the constant leaks and terrible news reports, the fans made it known and Dan moved on.  He drags his feet for his 'boys' but he's always been one for optics.  If we see another season where the stadium resembles a HS Freshman football game... He's going to have had enough.

I think he's had enough already. For better or worse it's a tight lipped operation in Ashburn now, whereas it used to leak like a sieve. People used to complain about the leaks, now they complain about a lack of transparency.

 

But the one thing I do know is Snyder knows. And while Snyder is a dope, he does love this team. So zero doubt in my mind he knows and he feels it.

 

It's why I actually could see trading up for Haskins as a legitimate possibility. Or a trade for a star player. I would be shocked if we operate the way we have been the last couple of off-seasons, absolutely shocked.

 

If it were up to me? I'd make a big time hire at DC. I'd lure Rex out of retirement or kiss Gregg's ass until he came back. Or pry away a Kris Richard or other budding star in the coaching ranks but I'd prefer pedigree. I want no nonsense. I'd use 15 on a stud edge rusher/MLB/CB and then target a trade back up for Grier. But I could see the lure to trading up for a Haskins. Dan saw what Rg3 did in 2012 and I have no doubt there's a big itch to reignite the fan base.

[DJD2]

Pass unless he's a once in a generational type player, and I don't get that sense.

I think this draft you trade back, trade back, and trade back some more trying to get as much capital in 20 and 21

Assume you are rolling with Colt this year and if you get anything out of Smith it's a bonus.

 

Unfortunately the FO would never do this (because, you know, 1 player away) and most of the fan base probably couldn't stomach it.

 

If they are ever going to get out of the endless 6-10 / 9-7 cycle they have to just bite the bullet and take it to bare metal.

[bowhunter]

9 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

. I'd use 15 on a stud edge rusher/MLB/CB and then target a trade back up for Grier. But I could see the lure to trading up for a Haskins. Dan saw what Rg3 did in 2012 and I have no doubt there's a big itch to reignite the fan base.

With the great amount of early D talent in this years draft, That's what I would do as well. Maybe even trade down in the first with Oak at #24 and swap in exchange 2nd rounds (3rd pick in rd 2) Grab a Defensive playmaker and get Grier with the early 2nd. I'd much rather see that happen than selling the farm

[HardcoreZorn]

Just now, bowhunter said:

With the great amount of early D talent in this years draft, That's what I would do as well. Maybe even trade down in the first with Oak at #24 and swap in exchange 2nd rounds (3rd pick in rd 2) Grab a Defensive playmaker and get Grier with the early 2nd. I'd much rather see that happen than selling the farm

Yup, agreed. That would be the prudent thing to do IMO, but with how bad it's gotten is that going to get the fans to come out next year? Probably not, and we know Danny doesn't exude much patience lol.

 

But from what I've read on Grier, I really like and think he would be an excellent Gruden QB. Seems to me he excels at the intermediate and deep ball, can move around a little bit, has some moxie. Seems like a more talented Dalton.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Not that it matters but there was a time where Dwayne said he wanted to play for the Skins. Just throwing that out there because of the Giants comment.

 

 

Anyway, would I trade up for Dwayne? You bet I would.

 

Some of you have doubts he's a franchise QB. I understand...but vehemently disagree.

 

Not buying the "we have too many holes" argument.

 

Also not buying the "we'll tank and be in a better position to trade up next year" argument either.

 

 

 

And the REASON I don't buy that line of thinking is because it always seems to be "wait until next year" for some posters.

 

Imo, a lack of a stud QB is the biggest hole any team could possibly have.

 

And we've had a hole at the position for far too long.

 

Yeah, go get Dwayne.

 

 

 

[nonniey]

50 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

......

 

And the REASON I don't buy that line of thinking is because it always seems to be "wait until next year" for some posters.

 

Imo, a lack of a stud QB is the biggest hole any team could possibly have.

 

And we've had a hole at the position for far too long.

 

Yeah, go get Dwayne.

 

 

 

Maybe the reason for always having wait until next year posters is because the Redskins never do, and it hasn't worked. Waiting until next year would be a change.  The other term for that is planning/building for the future.

[KDawg]

28 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Not that it matters but there was a time where Dwayne said he wanted to play for the Skins. Just throwing that out there because of the Giants comment.

 

 

Anyway, would I trade up for Dwayne? You bet I would.

 

Some of you have doubts he's a franchise QB. I understand...but vehemently disagree.

 

Not buying the "we have too many holes" argument.

 

Also not buying the "we'll tank and be in a better position to trade up next year" argument either.

 

 

 

And the REASON I don't buy that line of thinking is because it always seems to be "wait until next year" for some posters.

 

Imo, a lack of a stud QB is the biggest hole any team could possibly have.

 

And we've had a hole at the position for far too long.

 

Yeah, go get Dwayne.

 

 

 

Or rather it's "wait until we're not doing something stupid and wind up with Jamarcus Russell".

[Riggo-toni]

Trading up for a QB when we have almost no OL to protect him is a disaster in the making. Trent was one of the few great decisions made by Shamahan, but father time is catching up quickly. I doubt he will stay healthy enough to play another full season again, and will likely retire in two years. Nsekhe is on the wrong side of 30, and the reason Moses fell to us in the draft were concerns about his durability. Scherff and Roullier are core players, but we need to lock down the left side of the OL. I'm not saying we draft the next Robert Gallery if a Big Ben is available, but let's not give away the farm to move up to draft Joey Harrington either.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The more I think about it, the more I think this isn't going down.  Could you imagine them doing another RG3 ransom deal (it would likely take that this time because they are moving up much more than in 2012, in 2012 they were moving from pick #4) and it fails?  They have enough problems as is.

 

Craig Hoffman who covers the team for 106.7 ironically asked the same question on the Junkies today, he said he doesn't have an inside info on this but his take knowing people there -- less than 10% chance they do something like this. 

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Riggo-toni said:

I'm not saying we draft the next Robert Gallery if a Big Ben is available, but let's not give away the farm to move up to draft Joey Harrington either.

 

 

that about sums it up. 

[Renegade7]

49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Or rather it's "wait until we're not doing something stupid and wind up with Jamarcus Russell".

 

This is paranoid logic, what indication do you have that Haskins is even a fraction of the POS that Russell was?

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Maybe the reason for always having wait until next year posters is because the Redskins never do, and it hasn't worked. Waiting until next year would be a change.  The other term for that is planning/building for the future.

 

Which we never do, so I don't get why 'next year' posters keep hoping they will.  I might of felt differently if Allen was let go, every year we wait to hope we do the right thing is another this franchise disintegrates.

[Est.1974]

I think we are more likely to blow a load more cap space on an over inflated contract for a 30+ year old vet. Retire Smith off, retain Colt, draft a day 3 guy.