Anselmheifer Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said: I wouldn't personally start him Day 1... His footwork needs some major improvement. He had a ton of talent to work with at OSU and in a terrible QB draft class he's been overvalued. Murray, would start day 1 in the NFL. well that sure is an appropriate response... considering my response was to someone comparing him to Cam Newton... You want an accurate comparison to fit your agenda.... Dwayne Haskins = Mitchell Trubisky without as much wheels.... Sorry. Wasn't so much aimed at you. Every single person I've seen has done the same thing. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mitch-trubisky-1.html Mitch Trubisky wasn't nearly the prospect that Haskins is. Haskins is definitely less mobile. He's just a much better passer. It took Mitch trubisky multiple years to still never post a season like Haskins did this year. Also, just for the record, I am not saying that Haskins is a future all pro or HOF player, and I think I can sometimes evaluate NFL talent, but not necessarily at QB, which I think is harder. I guess I am just saying that a lot of people tend to dismiss him out of hand without a lot of analysis. I haven't seen anyone knock him as a prospect and then talk about his footwork, his release, his ability to read a defense, sense a pass rush, distribute the ball to open players, push the ball downfield. The only logical criticisms I've hear are that he has a small sample size, which is true, but also true of Murray, and that it would cost too much to go get him, which could also be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red and the Black Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Sure, why not. I don't even know who Haskins is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: Sorry. Wasn't so much aimed at you. Every single person I've seen has done the same thing. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mitch-trubisky-1.html Mitch Trubisky wasn't nearly the prospect that Haskins is. Haskins is definitely less mobile. He's just a much better passer. It took Mitch trubisky multiple years to still never post a season like Haskins did this year. Also, just for the record, I am not saying that Haskins is a future all pro or HOF player, and I think I can sometimes evaluate NFL talent, but not necessarily at QB, which I think is harder. I guess I am just saying that a lot of people tend to dismiss him out of hand without a lot of analysis. I haven't seen anyone knock him as a prospect and then talk about his footwork, his release, his ability to read a defense, sense a pass rush, distribute the ball to open players, push the ball downfield. The only logical criticisms I've hear are that he has a small sample size, which is true, but also true of Murray, and that it would cost too much to go get him, which could also be true. I think this link seemed to be race baiting in my opinion. If you're referring to me I compared him to Newton and Andrew Luck prior to your post. The link had nothing to do with the various posts just preceding it and was a stretch to bring into the argument, if it didn't refer to Semper Fi or me. I like the kid because what I see is a great football player that was groomed to be a pure QB from a young age. Sorry you felt that link had to be brought into the conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: I think this link seemed to be race baiting in my opinion. If you're referring to me I compared him to Newton and Andrew Luck prior to your post. The link had nothing to do with the various posts just preceding it and was a stretch to bring into the argument, if it didn't refer to Semper Fi or me. I like the kid because what I see is a great football player that was groomed to be a pure QB from a young age. Sorry you felt that link had to be brought into the conversation It's in literally every thread, and if you don't see it, you don't want to see it. I wasn't pointing fingers at any particular forum member. Just the global propensity of people to compare black QB's to other black QB's, white secondary players to other white secondary players etc. I think it also speaks to shallow analysis of a player. Also, I don't see the Andrew luck/Cam Newton comparison. He good size and arm strength like those players, is smart and can read a defense, although Luck is in a different class from most prospects in those regards. He is not in any way mobile like those guys. Haskins can move a little, but for the most part, he looks a little lumbering to me. That would be my main criticism of him as a prospect. He's never going to be slippery in the pocket like an Aaron Rogers or Tony Romo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: It's in literally every thread, and if you don't see it, you don't want to see it. I wasn't pointing fingers at any particular forum member. Just the global propensity of people to compare black QB's to other black QB's, white secondary players to other white secondary players etc. I think it also speaks to shallow analysis of a player. Also, I don't see the Andrew luck/Cam Newton comparison. He good size and arm strength like those players, is smart and can read a defense, although Luck is in a different class from most prospects in those regards. He is not in any way mobile like those guys. Haskins can move a little, but for the most part, he looks a little lumbering to me. That would be my main criticism of him as a prospect. He's never going to be slippery in the pocket like an Aaron Rogers or Tony Romo. Again, the idea that 'people don't want to see it' can be taken as being insensitive to some societal phenomena. I am not and frankly do take offense to it. That's fine if you were not referring to me. I think that it is within good reason to analyze a players history and how they were used in high school and college. Race may be a part of that and it should be discussed without fear of being 'blind' to a societal ill. Depending on the situation (or sport for that matter) a player will be compared to others with similar traits and even races. That doesn't mean a 'black QB' debate has to be reopened and there is absolute shallowness to the conversation. Haskins single handedly changed OSU offensive philosophy with his ability to throw the ball and read the defense. That is a transformational player. He very well should be able to do that in the NFL and I would make him my #1 overall for that reason. His pocket mobility is what got my attention, show me some film where you don't agree. Let alone the fact that he is easily comparable to some of the ball throwers in his contemporary class. That is icing on the cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'm not a fan of constantly seeing black QBs labled as mobile QBs even if a person knows nothing about them. At same time, please be careful with that convo as it could very well belong in the tailgate with the reasons why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Even though I'm against pulling off another trade to move up and giving up future first round picks. Whatever happens, I'll pull for this team until the day they no longer exist or I no longer exist. Even if that means giving up picks to draft Haskins. I will not like it, I do not support the idea and I'm sure I'd **** about it, especially if it didn't work out. But at the end of the day, what the team decides to do is out of my control and everyone else's, regardless of what side of the fence you're on in this topic. And at the end of the day, we all just want to win too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: Again, the idea that 'people don't want to see it' can be taken as being insensitive to some societal phenomena. I am not and frankly do take offense to it. That's fine if you were not referring to me. I think that it is within good reason to analyze a players history and how they were used in high school and college. Race may be a part of that and it should be discussed without fear of being 'blind' to a societal ill. Depending on the situation (or sport for that matter) a player will be compared to others with similar traits and even races. That doesn't mean a 'black QB' debate has to be reopened and there is absolute shallowness to the conversation. Haskins single handedly changed OSU offensive philosophy with his ability to throw the ball and read the defense. That is a transformational player. He very well should be able to do that in the NFL and I would make him my #1 overall for that reason. His pocket mobility is what got my attention, show me some film where you don't agree. Let alone the fact that he is easily comparable to some of the ball throwers in his contemporary class. That is icing on the cake I should have left it alone. I’ve literally never had a political discussion on any forum, ever, and don’t really have a desire to do so, especially in today’s climate. I wasn’t singling you, or anyone out. I was pointing out that I have found the analysis of Haskins on the board to be lazy, again, not yours in particular, but this thread in particular. I just did a bad job of making the point. I posted the Onion article because I thought it was funny. I still think it’s funny. And, to be clear, I agree with your assessment of Haskins. His ability to read a defense and deliver the ball transformed Ohio State. He is very much a classic pocket passer, and other than sample size, my one worry is that he might not be quite as slippery as desirable within the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: I should have left it alone. I’ve literally never had a political discussion on any forum, ever, and don’t really have a desire to do so, especially in today’s climate. I wasn’t singling you, or anyone out. I was pointing out that I have found the analysis of Haskins on the board to be lazy, again, not yours in particular, but this thread in particular. I just did a bad job of making the point. I posted the Onion article because I thought it was funny. I still think it’s funny. And, to be clear, I agree with your assessment of Haskins. His ability to read a defense and deliver the ball transformed Ohio State. He is very much a classic pocket passer, and other than sample size, my one worry is that he might not be quite as slippery as desirable within the pocket. I understand, and I hesitate to discuss hot topics on the internet as well. I also understand where the message was coming from. I think we both agree Haskins can be special and thats the point of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 How do these threads always wind up on race? Anyways, Murray strikes me as a higher ceiling, lower floor prospect. Haskins seems to be more of a steady prospect. His ceiling probably isn't as high as Kyler Murray, but I don't think he has the same chance to bomb out like Murray does, either. Murray reminds me of Russell Wilson. Smaller QB (although Wilson is a bit bigger), mobile, playmaker. I don't think he's ever going to wow you with stat lines, but he could be the guy that moves a team down field on his back. Haskins really does remind me of more of a pocket passer. Not un-athletic, obviously. I kind of like the Andrew Luck comparison as far as style goes. I don't think he's anywhere near the same talent as Luck. But that's the kind of player I view him as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 i'm closing this temporarily becuase once again we have people deciding they have a good reason to violate the the no discussion of politics or religion in the stadium rule. Haven't decided on bans for them in this case yet, but am going to make a sticky post on the matter becuase this keeps happening even with long time members who know better. It will reopen soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 reading back, i see the last few pages are full of so much rule violating crap to spend time editing it all out for this particular topic that it will just remain closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 fwiw a member had pm'ed me saying that when i closed this thread he'd been making a long post in a reply box addressing recent points made in it and lost his work right when the thread was closed i commiserated with him and told him to use it to start a new thread on haskins, because that would be ok for anyone to do but he didn't feel like redoing the work (i don't blame him)---so anyone who thinks haskins as an individual is worth his own thread at this time and wants to develop a new OP with a little fresh meat in it maybe, it is indeed ok---i just wasn't going to edit out a bunch of <leaving out castigations here> posts cuz i get tired of that bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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