Trade up to draft Haskins???

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Trading up for a QB when we have almost no OL to protect him is a disaster in the making. Trent was one of the few great decisions made by Shamahan, but father time is catching up quickly. I doubt he will stay healthy enough to play another full season again, and will likely retire in two years. Nsekhe is on the wrong side of 30, and the reason Moses fell to us in the draft were concerns about his durability. Scherff and Roullier are core players, but we need to lock down the left side of the OL. I'm not saying we draft the next Robert Gallery if a Big Ben is available, but let's not give away the farm to move up to draft Joey Harrington either.

 

Can some of y'all do me a favor and just flat out say if you think this guy will be a bust?  Otherwise, stop saying this because it doesn't help the conversation at all.

 

Your point on oline is a valid one I've been saying for years, though I'll add that given we have at least 3 guys we can't trust to do their job (I'm almost ready to put Roullier in that category), them what we need is depth going into next season, backups that can hold their own and stay healthy themselves. 

 

The line when healthy is solid and another starter away from me being comfortable with a developing rookie QB behind it.  Worst case scenario is having to replace majority of the line, because we can't do that in one offseason and drawing this out is just going to do more damage them its worth.  I can't stress that enough.

[KDawg]

32 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is paranoid logic, what indication do you have that Haskins is even a fraction of the POS that Russell was?

 

 

 

What indication do you have that he isn't? (not speaking on the piece of crap part. But insert any QB that was a bust in that spot... Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, etc.)

 

He's a reach to mortgage other positions on, behind a shot OL, that has 1 year experience, and he's your first rounder for 2 years straight.

 

Has nothing to do with his talent level, in my opinion. But the big splash move is what helped get this franchise in this mess. If he's there around 10 I'd advocate finding a way to move up. But up into the top 5 is dangerous.

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Can some of y'all do me a favor and just flat out say if you think this guy will be a bust?  Otherwise, stop saying this because it doesn't help the conversation at all.

 

 

I already said if I thought he'd bust or not, and have given my reasons a few times for why I wouldn't trade up.

[Renegade7]

@KDawg i know stated your feeling on if he's a bust and look forward to actual x and o convo on this.  Had to deal with some expected initial reactons first.  I'll be back later today, but i wanted to wait for combine to start this thread so if have more to help my case, but Bruce and Jay coming back made me snap, real talk.

[PartyPosse]

No way anyone knows whether or not he'll be a bust. No one ever knows, certainly not the experts. But one thing is for sure, there's more of a chance he'll be one with the offensive weapons he'd be working with here.

[Forehead]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:00 PM, Renegade7 said:

@KDawg i know stated your feeling on if he's a bust and look forward to actual x and o convo on this.  Had to deal with some expected initial reactons first.  I'll be back later today, but i wanted to wait for combine to start this thread so if have more to help my case, but Bruce and Jay coming back made me snap, real talk.

 

Well, no one replied or quoted me, but I think Haskins will be a bust.  I thought I was pretty clear about it.

 

However, take my ability to evaluate QB's with a grain of salt.  I used my blue and white tinted glasses to talk myself into believing Christian Hackenberg would have a decent pro career, mainly because he did really well the one season he was in a pro style offense, and because he was willing to stand in and take hits.  I was clearly wrong there.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

When are WE going to suck enough a generational talent can just fall in our laps?! We always have good players, but when did we have THE guy(s)? I might have argued Portis, Moss and ST were the last time you could even say that.

 

I feel like every year one team in the NFCE does enough of a tank job they get to pick a GREAT player.

 

For us, we get a guard (hey, I love me some Scherff obviously).

[Otis Wonsley Posse]

I am all for getting Haskins. Waiting around on Smith’s leg or 2020 is a gamble as well.  Get your guy now if he grades out and lets move north 

[WelshSkinsFan]

No.

 

I like Haskins but I see 2 scenarios.

 

1.  Trade up for Haskins this year which will no doubt cost us multiple high picks in this draft as well as next year.  We may have the QB of the future but without the picks we gave up we cannot build a team around him and lest we forget we also have next to no cap room to improve the team in FA.  Our cap situation is likely to remain hellish until 2021 by which time Haskins will have had 2 years playing with JAGs and getting the snot beaten out of him and we will only just be in a position to start on the rest of the rebuild.  The cap issue is huge, all the teams riding rookies to the offseason have cap room to buy multiple all pro players thanks to saving on the QB contract but we won't have that for another 2 years thanks to the moronic Smith deal, thanks BA.

 

2. Wait to pick in 2020.  We can go BPA in the draft, get some good young talent in areas of need like OL or DB without giving anything up and get started on a real rebuild.  With youth and Colt at QB we probably win 5 or 6 games next year at best and are picking in the top 10 when there are likely to be at least 3 QBs as good as Haskins available.  We can probably stand pat or maybe just make a relatively small trade to get our guy and we are now just 1 year from being out of cap hell with good talent already picked up in 2019 and probably also in the later rounds in 2020.  We probably also have a new HC and, please god, a new GM and so the new QB gets to start in the offense we will be operating throughout his rookie deal rather than Haskins likely getting one year of Jay and then having to go back to square one in his second year.

 

I have been waiting over 25 years for this team to get back to what it was in my youth so I truly understand the impatience to find our franchise guy but whilst Haskins is good I do not see a generational talent that we have to have.  He is more Andy Dalton than Andrew Luck at this level and that is not worth the price.

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Pass. It'd cost way too much and I don't think his game will translate to the pros.

[sempre_victrix]

On 1/8/2019 at 8:54 PM, Renegade7 said:

*Disclaimer - There's more then one way to pull this off, so don't be a jerk about it.

 

Look, I know what you're thinking: this isn't the smartest use of resources.  We've done this before and it backfired.  We'd probably get hosed again, too.  This isn't a great QB draft.

 

There will be plenty more reasons that come up in this thread not to do this, many of them valid, many of them I agree with.  In principle, this is a bad idea.  But I'm going to tell you a couple reasons why we have to do this anyway and why its worth the risk.

 

The man threw for 50 Tds and 8 Ints this year, obliterated Michigan, and showed such pro-style tendencies that even Urban Meyer had to say "F it, lets treat him like a pro-style QB".  He is, he's ready, I'm not interested in the conversation of him only doing it for one year.  You want to know why?  Because nobody else is, and neither is the Giants.  

 

Listen to me, he's from New Jersey and already said he'd love to play for Big Blue.  If he ends up there with Barkley we are screwed for the forseable future having to deal with that, Dak/Elliot, and Philly just winning the Super Bowl.  I was at the last game of the season against Philly, somebody switched seats with their brother so I could sit next to a Redskins fan, at home.  Ya'll really think that's going to get better if Colt is the starter next year?  When we say stuff like "lets just suck and come at it the following year", are we really taking into account what is happening with this fan base right now and what's at risk here?  I live in the area, I went to a barbershop to get my haircut by someone else for first time in 7 years, and I might as well have gone to one in Dallas.  There wasn't even a Redskins sticker in there.  And its not just transients, people in there from the area grew up associating this franchise with pain.  Not winning, not trying hard, or respectability, but suffering and absolute embarrassment.  

 

If Snyder and Allen insist on doubling down on this delusional attempt to prove everyone wrong, the only way hide just how terrible this franchise is top to bottom is a young, star Franchise QB, period.  That's right, I would rather be the Colts that get knocked out in the first round all the time with a HOF QB and completely feel apart the one year he finally got hurt then go into next season just seeing what happens.  At least they won a Super Bowl and went to another one, this might not happen in my lifetime at the rate we are going. We know what will happen if we just surrender next year, this football team will turn into the Wizards.  A franchise that winning a couple playoff games here and there won't regenerate the fanbase, it will need a generational type run and multiple rings to do it, which lets face it, the way our front office is liking the smell of their own **** is about as likely Snyder selling the team.

 

I believe this guy is going to shock people at the combine and take over the #1 QB prospect spot, even if he isn't the greatest QB prospect we've ever seen.  That's not the point.  The point is the Giants have a higher draft pick then us (and so do the Jaguars) and either one of them could take him.  I don't care about a QB that could be a good one, we need a QB that could be a great one.  I'm going to say this whether ya'll like it or not, I would not of given Cousins that money, but I know damn well if it was him at QB instead of going through 4 other guys, we'd be in the playoffs right now.  The 2018 Redskins would be in the playoffs with Haskins starting 16 games.

 

I'll go further:  Our reputation is BEYOND f'd up right now.  Having a successful black QB in DC is just what this franchise needs right now.  I don't want to get too political, but right now we aren't helping matters in regards to race relations or examples of model characters.  I was at the Ohio State stadium talking to folks, this is exactly the kind of face of the franchise slash role model we need right now.  I would do the RG3 trade with the Giants this year in a heartbeat if I had to just to get him in Burgundy and Gold and make sure they didn't get him.  The only thing worse then the Giants getting him would be us trading up then Giants trading ahead of us.

 

Again, this is soooo much bigger then what's the right thing to do right now, what other franchises would do, what I'd like to do in Madden Franchise mode.  Unless we want to see this franchise sink into an abyss it might never climb out of, this may be our last chance, right here, right now.  Take it, if it fails, well... that just means we were doomed anyway.  Go down swinging, you want to die on your knees or your feet?

 

While I understand your frustration, and I certainly respect your right to suggest such a move, I hope you'll also respect my right to respond when I say the following:

 

WTF are you talking about? 

Are you crazy?  (I guess being a Redskins fan kind of answers that question)

Do you not see the smoking ruins of this team, which is partially the result of spending 3 firsts and a second for RG3?

 

We need more picks, not less.  We're already in cap hell due to the Alex Smith contract (for a player that may never play again) and we have way too many holes to fill if we have any thought of ever building a competitive team again.  We have decent coaches leaving, while the ****ty ones are staying.  How is killing our future going to attract good coaches to this team, especially with the circus of a FO?

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

39 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

How is killing our future going to attract good coaches to this team, especially with the circus of a FO?

 

 

The front office is enough to keep good coaches away, regardless of the roster. 

 

If you want to save the franchise with the way this FO operates, it needs a franchise QB and needs one now.  None if those picks will matter if what happens in the Philly game becomes the norm, and has been mentioned, wed likely have to trade up anyway. 

 

Yes, I'm cocco cocco for cocoa puffs, but you know what else is crazy?  Staying the course with a waterfall right in front of us.  You can avoid a waterfall but you can't swim back up it.

[Anselmheifer]

31 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

 

WTF are you talking about? 

Are you crazy?  (I guess being a Redskins fan kind of answers that question)

Do you not see the smoking ruins of this team, which is partially the result of spending 3 firsts and a second for RG3?

 

 

 

 

This is partially faulty thinking. We were largely kept from making up for the loss of those picks in free agency because we were docked 18 million dollars in salary cap space in 2012 and 2013 because of the way we candled our contracts in an uncapped year.  Regardless, since we did receive a 1st round pick in exchange for our three 1sts and a 2nd, we essentially lost the opportunity to make two more 1st round picks and a 2nd in that trade. Especially with our 2nd round miss rate, would our current team really look a ton better with two more 1sts and one more 2nd round pick, all made 4-5 years ago? Not without a QB. We would still be a middling team at best. And we will always be a middling team until we find a QB. 

 

Of course we regret the RGIII trade. He got injured and wound up being a bust. Everyone regrets trading up when the player they select busts. Imagine what would have happened to the falcons if Julio Jones was a bust? They traded two 1sts, a 2nd, and two 4ths for the right to select him. Do you think they regret that? The bears just gave up a fortune to sign Khalil Mack to QB money. Do they regret it? They don't regret those decisions for two reasons. The first is that the player they traded for performed well, and the second is that both teams have a QB. 

The RGIII trade assets are a sunk cost. The money we are paying Alex Smith is a sunk cost. Neither should affect our thinking about what we should do this year. I remain unconvinced that Tua/Fromm/Herbert are better than Haskins. Tua got benched in the national title game and sucked against Georgia. Jalen Hurts bailed them out. We've yet to see a stinker like that from Haskins. Herbert wasn't nearly the player that Haskins was this year. Check their stats. Herbert is more mobile than Haskins, but they both have great arms and Haskins is more mobile. Fromm also hasn't been as good as Haskins. 

Maybe I'm off in my evaluation of Haskins, but if he is a franchise player, he's worth a trade up. 

[SkinsRx]

Drafting Haskins or any other QB in the 1st round this year is a terrible idea.  We should be looking to trade DOWN.  Not necessarily trade out of the 1st round, but we need to pick up some extra picks and go heavy on offense early in the draft.  Get a stud at LG, playmakers at WR and TE, and maybe a 2nd tier QB in the mid rounds.  In order for a young QB to be successful, you MUST have a strong supporting cast in place.  Look at the teams Wilson, Rothlesberger, Wentz, Mahomes were drafted into.  If the Skins drafted Patrick Mahomes last year, how good of a year do you think he would have had?  5,000 yds and 50 TDs with our team?  There's no way.

 

I think we should look for a backup QB in this years draft, not a franchise QB.  If you take a shot in the 4th round and he ends up being Kirk Cousins 2.0, awesome.  If not, we will hopefully have drafted some solid starters at other positions this year and head into next years offseason in a much better situation (assuming Allen and Gruden are let go) to draft a franchise QB.

 

If you take a chance and try to get your franchise QB this year, you run the risk of screwing up his development because of the high possibility that we switch head coaches next year.  AND, even if you pick a QB in the 1st round in this draft, what's the best record we can hope for next year?  7-9?  8-8?  Who else is tired of being mediocre?  It feels like every year we settle for an average, just-missed-the-playoffs record and it's getting old.  We need to tank at least one season and have a top 3 pick and select the best QB available at that spot instead of ending up with the #15th pick and trying to trade 4 future first rounders to get the #1 pick.  With next years highly touted QB class on deck, there's no better time to tank than next season.  So I say let's ignore all the big name QBs coming out this year and instead focus on building up the rest of our team to set us up for the future.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If you want to save the franchise with the way this FO operates, it needs a franchise QB and needs one now.  

 

 

Nope. The next Coach needs to select his franchise QB. That won't happen until the year 2020. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Nope. The next Coach needs to select his franchise QB. That won't happen until the year 2020. 

 

That's was supposed to happen this offseason, same as Bruce being gone.  I will not believe until i see it, I'm treating as they are here until they are gone even if some of y'all dont want to.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Do they regret it? They don't regret those decisions for two reasons. The first is that the player they traded for performed well, and the second is that both teams have a QB. 

 

Exactly.  Nothing we do, right or wrong, matters without a QB.  This is the priority give how this front office operates, they could easily screw up trying to trade down as well...and still not have a QB. 

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's was supposed to happen this offseason, same as Bruce being gone.  I will not believe until i see it, I'm treating as they are here until they are gone even if some of y'all dont want to.

 

Incorrect. Some of us knew this was NOT going to happen this year. Gruden was extended for a reason until 2020 or is it 2021. Regardless. It won't make any sense what so ever to go for a QB when you paid all that for Alex. I will bet you the FO will hold on and wait for Alex to come back because the team was 6-3 went he went down. There are other needs that are more important at the moment.

 

By the way, it doesn't even matter if the QB will be bust or not. You won't find him on the Skins roster to find out. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, zskins said:

 

Incorrect. Some of us knew this was NOT going to happen this year. Gruden was extended for a reason until 2020 or is it 2021. Regardless. It won't make any sense what so ever to go for a QB when you paid all that for Alex. I will bet you the FO will hold on and wait for Alex to come back because the team was 6-3 went he went down. There are other needs that are more important at the moment.

 

Alex is not coming back, his career is over, and Jay is staying because no one else wants the job with Bruce still here. Jay is the new Marvin Lewis, he needs an a QB or that Philly home game will become normal. Worth it?

[zCommander]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Alex is not coming back, his career is over, and Jay is staying because no one else wants the job with Bruce still here. Jay is the new Marvin Lewis, he needs an a QB or that Philly home game will become normal. Worth it?

 

Did I miss it that Alex is not coming back? Is it confirmed?

[Forehead]

16 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Nope. The next Coach needs to select his franchise QB. That won't happen until the year 2020. 

 

You mean 2021 when Trevor Lawrence is eligible.

 

I think I might willingly endure 0-32 for the next two seasons if it meant drafting him.  Hopefully we'd still have some pieces from the smoking ruin to build around him.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, zskins said:

 

Did I miss it that Alex is not coming back? Is it confirmed?

Official? No.  We shouldn't ask him to do that, nor expect him to be any better if he ever does.  Dude he was bad before he got hurt and that was career-threatening injury that got and infection.  I don't want him to come back, as a person, not just a player.  I would ask him if he wants to retire and if says no cut him, get it over with for both our sake. Should Haskins team, it has to work, all in.

3 minutes ago, Forehead said:

 

You mean 2021 when Trevor Lawrence is eligible.

 

I think I might willingly endure 0-32 for the next two seasons if it meant drafting him.  Hopefully we'd still have some pieces from the smoking ruin to build around him.

 

We wouldn't, so if thats your stance, we're at an impasse, which is perfectly fine, its all good.

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Official? No.  We shouldn't ask him to do that, nor expect him to be any better if he ever does.  Dude he was bad before he got hurt and that was career-threatening injury that got and infection.  I don't want him to come back, as a person, not just a player.  I would ask him if he wants to retire and if says no cut him, get it over with for both our sake. Should Haskins team, it has to work, all in.

 

We also can't kick him while he is down either. If the doctors think he can't play at all and he needs to hang it up before the draft then let's talk about a QB. Even then you might have to wait until the 2nd or the 3rd round. Who would be available in the later rounds that Jay can work with? I don't watch or keep up with college football so maybe you can help here.

 

 

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We also can't kick him while he is down either. If the doctors think he can't play at all and he needs to hang it up before the draft then let's talk about a QB. Even then you might have to wait until the 2nd or the 3rd round. Who would be available in the later rounds that Jay can work with? I don't watch or keep up with college football so maybe you can help here.

 

: ) to be frank, the college draft thread is better one for that because your guess is as good as mine, lol.  I thought about making a "which Qb to draft", but i already a made a what to do about thread, i said id wait and now I've made a decision.

 

I really wish a lot of people that voted waited until the combine or said something other then no.  The results seem too reactionary, its why i wanted to wait until later to start this one but couldn't take it anymore, i really do care about the future of this team, i really do. The results would be different in a month or two and everyone here knows it.

 

I also dont want to disrespect Alex, that's not my intent.  I think for his own future he should jus hang em up, and I don't think his style of play fits Jays offense, he's just to conservative. I also dont want the QB controversy.

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

: ) to be frank, the college draft thread is better one for that because your guess is as good as mine, lol.  I thought about making a "which Qb to draft", but i already a made a what to do about thread, i said id wait and now I've made a decision.

 

I really wish a lot of people that voted waited until the combine or said something other then no.  The results seem too reactionary, its why i wanted to wait until later to start this one but couldn't take it anymore, i really do care about the future if this team, i really do. The results would be different in a month or two and everyone here knows it.

 

I also dont want to disrespect Alex, that's not my intent.  I think for his own future he should jus hang em up, and I don't think his style of play fits Jays offense, he's just to conservative. I also dont want the QB controversy.

 

I am not a reactionary kind of a guy, unless I am in the game day thread... lol. I just think it makes no sense to draft a QB this year and moving up for one is just plain stupid. Maybe the 70% of the people feel the same as well.

 

I am pretty sure you would have gotten the same response even if you had started this thread during the combine because of the bad taste on our mouths from the RG3 trade up thing.  

 

Agree on the Alex being not "**** it! I am going deep!!!" kind of a QB. 

[Renegade7]

@zskins  Aye, it will be fun watching y'all squirm as it gets closer to looking like we'll do this.  I can see people changing their votejust because they'll need practice defending it : )

 

likes been said, i think if we want to get someone we'll have to trade uo eventually even if it's next year.  People not wanting to do it isnt going to change that, this team refuse to nuke itself the way it need to to not have to trade up.