Anselmheifer Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 We don't need to pick a coach first and let that coach pick his QB. That's ridiculous. Did the Rams wait to draft Goff? Did Green Bay have the same coach that drafted Aaron Rogers when he started to play? Baker Mayfield will have a different coach next year. Sam Darnold will have a different coach. You grab a great QB whenever you have a chance to grab one and by whatever means. Also, to suggest that a QB like Mahomes wouldn't be good here is a ridiculous presumption. Sure, when the whole OL went down, it would have been tough sledding, and there was no Tyreek Hill on our roster. He wouldn't have put up 50 touchdowns. But, he would have been infinitely better than Alex Smith. Can anyone that says you have to build a roster before you draft a QB find a quote from any personnel man, ever, that supports that idea? It's an idea born entirely out of a few teams recently lucking into QB's, or being ahead of the rest of the league in assessing college QB talent, in the case of Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Do we have the kind of management team that you guys trust to be so forward thinking? Also, we are extremely likely to take a QB in the first this year, so those that won't be happy about that ought to dig in and prepare to be disappointed. There have already been rumblings that that is our intention and Doug Williams was personally scouting Daniel Jones. Talk about a catastrophic pick. He's the next Jason Campbell. Anyway, if Haskins is going to be great, then it would be worth it to trade up. If he isn't, obviously, it wouldn't. I think it's funny how little of the conversation in this thread is actually about Haskins as a prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: @zskins Aye, it will be fun watching y'all squirm as it gets closer to looking like we'll do this. I can see people changing their votejust because they'll need practice defending it : ) likes been said, i think if we want to get someone we'll have to trade uo eventually even if it's next year. People not wanting to do it isnt going to change that, this team refuse to nuke itself the way it need to to not have to trade up. I think it will be more fun watching you eat some crow... lol it is safe to bet the FO is not going to move up for a QB this year. They will foolishly wait for Alex, because of the money tied up in that stupid deal, and then just start Colt with Josh as the backup. It should be a fun "winning off the field" season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: . I think it's funny how little of the conversation in this thread is actually about Haskins as a prospect. Why I was to wait until the combine first, there will be more to parse through since he's only played one year. It absolutely is a risk, obevased off what I've seen and read is with taking. Don't know if anyone caught this but i was at the Ohio state stadium new years eve talking to people that work there, hes absolutely day 1 nfl ready compared to other guys they've had and even thought would do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, zskins said: I think it will be more fun watching you eat some crow... lol Oh, you know me, ill be here regardless : ) Still not as much as not being a f'n embarrassment, I'll trade up for that. Quote it is safe to bet the FO is not going to move up for a QB this year. They will foolishly wait for Alex, because of the money tied up in that stupid deal, and then just start Colt with Josh as the backup. It should be a fun "winning off the field" season. May God have mercy on our souls if JJ ever starts another regular season game for us. We deserve to just pack up and move the franchise to London if that's the case, Virginia already writing bills to block stadium money. Bought to get real if it don't get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: Anyway, if Haskins is going to be great, then it would be worth it to trade up. If he isn't, obviously, it wouldn't. I think it's funny how little of the conversation in this thread is actually about Haskins as a prospect. The Skins are picking at #15. How much do you have to give up to make the case that Haskins is worth it? But before we do this exercise let's look at which team before us needs a QB. I don't think the Giants will trade with us because they need a QB. Teams 1-5 don't need a QB. Giants pick at #6 Jags #7 Lions #8 Broncos #9 Bengals #10 Dolphins #13 So let's not pin our hopes on going up to get Haskins. it is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, zskins said: So let's not pin our hopes on going up to get Haskins. it is not going to happen. Need to find that point chart for picks, but it's not clear Giants actually will pick a QB after saying they want to get more years out of Eli. We have to make sure what the Giants want to do so they don't trade over us and I don't expect them to trade with us unless we give them something ridiculous. Honestly, some mirmers are saying we need #1, that's to early to commit to, but not against it. I will also look for some crow recipes for both us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I will also look for some crow recipes for both us. I like them spicy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Need to find that point chart for picks, but it's not clear Giants actually will pick a QB after saying they want to get more years out of Eli. We have to make sure what the Giants want to do so they don't trade over us and I don't expect them to trade with us unless we give them something ridiculous. Honestly, some mirmers are saying we need #1, that's to early to commit to, but not against it. I will also look for some crow recipes for both us. I do not agree with how they use the chart for future picks. For each yr out, they use the pt value for the next rd. So if say the #1 pick for net yr is in a trade for this yr, the pts they use would be 2nd #1 pick (33 overall). The difference? #1 pick = 3000 pts - #33 pick = 580. Not to bring up bad history - but if you look at the Robert trade the pts do not look that far off. But the reality is if put this team in a huge hole. I use this for demonstration purposes, not to start a RGIII conversation: Redskins get: 2012 1st rd #2 pick = 2600 pts Total = 2600 pts Rams get: 2012 1st rd #6 pick = 1600 2012 2nd rd #7 pick (39 overall) = 510 2013 1st rd #22 pick = 360 (pts = 2nd #22 or #54 overall) 2014 1st rd #2 pick = 320 (pts = 3rd rd #2 pick or 58th overall) Total = 2790 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 @goskins10 I hate that, too, GMs seriously use that? How many "points" you think Guice would be worth? We could do the RG3 trade again plus or 2019 third rounder and still be short about 500 points for #1 overall pick. You might as well go for that if you trade that much, figure a player to help make up that 500 points. Guys like Todd Mcshay are saying he's already the #1 QB prospect before we even get to the combine, so if Giants do decide to do QB, that where he's going. Here's a quote I saw that really makes me feel more comfortable about this guy, that I believe he won't just sit there and take it, he'll gladly make adjustments at the line to keep himself from getting killed Quote "I'm extremely confident. I'd kill the board [to write plays on]. I love protections, I love plays," he said. "If you don't like that being a quarterback, you're not going to last long. Everyone can throw a football, but if you can't ID fronts, if you can't see pressure, you're not going to last long. "You have to learn how to love to watch film, be able to learn how to love protections at the end of the day, because that's what will make you last. I could write a book on protections, honestly." I remember guys like Jason Campbell just refusing to do that, or guys like Griffin that didnt know how to. This thread is not over, its just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Using that chart i'd be ok trading #15 for a pick in the 33-37 range and getting a 1st next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Haskins is similar to that heavy-set chick at the bar at 2am when the place is starting to clear out and you get so desperate that she starts to look a little better (Don't judge me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 So done with trading draft picks. That doesn't work. Especially a team with so many holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alexa said: So done with trading draft picks. That doesn't work. Especially a team with so many holes. It works for lots of teams. And we are better than most teams that draft an elite QB, historically speaking. That's why we are picking 15th and not 3rd. I don't know why so many forum members have the belief that most elite QB's are drafted by teams that are better than us. Looking at passing yards, 6 out the top 10 QB's were top 5 picks. That means, by definition, that 6 of the top 10 QB's were chosen by teams with a worse roster than we have. Especially since we are only picking 15th because we were decimated by injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said: It works for lots of teams. A lot of things work for a lot of teams that aren’t managed by Bruce Allen. I’m somewhat shocked that folks really want to let this guy make more trades, particularly for a top of the draft quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Need to find that point chart for picks, but it's not clear Giants actually will pick a QB after saying they want to get more years out of Eli. We have to make sure what the Giants want to do so they don't trade over us and I don't expect them to trade with us unless we give them something ridiculous. Honestly, some mirmers are saying we need #1, that's to early to commit to, but not against it. I will also look for some crow recipes for both us. I do believe the Giants GM gave the dreaded "every position will be reviewed" when asked about Eli last week, nothing like the fully committed support given to OBJ in the same interview. I think it is distinctly possible they are looking to move Eli on before the draft and so they won't crush what little trade value he has by saying he is done with the team but it is hard to imagine them starting next season with Eii under center. OBJ has made some not so subtle comments suggesting he wants a new signal caller and at this point he and Saquon are more important to the team than Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 45 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: A lot of things work for a lot of teams that aren’t managed by Bruce Allen. I’m somewhat shocked that folks really want to let this guy make more trades, particularly for a top of the draft quarterback. I agree. If Murray or Haskins somehow are there at 15 and they want to take him.. it wouldn't be my preference but I get it. I however don't want Bruce trading any assets, ESPECIALLY draft picks, to move UP in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Agreed, it being important that a coach getting to pick his own QB is one of the most overrated and irrelevant cliches in sports. Not a single coach is going to turn down coming in as the new HC of Brady, Brees, Rivers, Mahomes, Luck etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Peregrine said: Agreed, it being important that a coach getting to pick his own QB is one of the most overrated and irrelevant cliches in sports. Not a single coach is going to turn down coming in as the new HC of Brady, Brees, Rivers, Mahomes, Luck etc. Those are guys any head coach would want though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 @Renegade7 Welp, there goes my theory that Bruce could be gone after next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: @Renegade7 Welp, there goes my theory that Bruce could be gone after next season Jus saw the news on the double-down. They are going to hit the event horizon this year if they do something like I'm proposing. This is only one I feel co portable making kind of sacrifice for, we don't have a year or two get the right guy. I keot saying that, it's official now. 5 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said: I do believe the Giants GM gave the dreaded "every position will be reviewed" when asked about Eli last week, nothing like the fully committed support given to OBJ in the same interview. I think it is distinctly possible they are looking to move Eli on before the draft and so they won't crush what little trade value he has by saying he is done with the team but it is hard to imagine them starting next season with Eii under center. OBJ has made some not so subtle comments suggesting he wants a new signal caller and at this point he and Saquon are more important to the team than Eli. Maybe, Eli had some games this year that showed he can still get it done. He's never been elite and never needed to. I'd have to look at how tradeable the contract is, could easily see him traded to jaguars, but not because he's done or Giants done with him. For record, I don't think giants front office cares what OBJ thinks about Eli, he goes off anybody, even himself, when things don't go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: A lot of things work for a lot of teams that aren’t managed by Bruce Allen. I’m somewhat shocked that folks really want to let this guy make more trades, particularly for a top of the draft quarterback. Nobody wants him to, but he's here, so someone gotta do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Also want to make this clear: I completely understand and respect we have holes in other areas. But we always will, every team has holes, but we have a glaring one at the one position you cannot survive with. We just went through 4 qbs in one year, not having a qb is like having a hole in your head instead of your arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBooger Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I don't think Allen or Gruden should be allowed to orchestrate the upcoming draft in a manner where the repercussions would be felt many years beyond their tenure here, this means blowing our future draft picks and leaving the next regime with scraps. If they want to fumble our 2019 draft picks, by all means, but Snyder needs to prohibit them from touching anything after that, especially if they're not going to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said: I don't think Allen or Gruden should be allowed to orchestrate the upcoming draft in a manner where the repercussions would be felt many years beyond their tenure here, this means blowing our future draft picks and leaving the next regime with scraps. If they want to fumble our 2019 draft picks, by all means, but Snyder needs to prohibit them from touching anything after that, especially if they're not going to be here. You're being overly optimistic if you think we aren't going to be stuck with Allen for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 9 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Those are guys any head coach would want though. .....Exactly. The only time you want to pick your own QB, is when you have a bad one. Draft a good one, and the new HC wont care that he didnt get to draft him or doesnt fit his system perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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