crabbypatty

The official clean house thread.. lay out your plan for the future here

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6 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I know - my comments were meant to amplify my frustration with the current state of affairs and not to call you to task for your suggestion (in normal organizations, that would be a great suggestion - but the Snyder Redskins are anything but normal).

 

I'm just so damn livid right now.

 

 

with ya all the way amigo---though these days i don't get livid much over the 'skins...more of a steady, resigned, melancholia and pessimism still with the occasional actual smile

 

 

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Just now, Jumbo said:

with ya all the way amigo---though these days i don't get livid much over the 'skins...more of a steady, resigned, melancholia and pessimism still with the occasional actual smile

 

Good perspective.

 

At the end of the day, this is all entertainment. If anything, this helps to spend less time on the team and instead focus on the things that matter in life.

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Agreed.  If were talking about turning around a culture, encouraging losing I dont think is how you do it.  we've talked about tanking in the NBA, the rosters are so much smaller and star driven. I keep saying this with the Wizards, it's not that blowing it up doesnt make sense at all, it's that if the same people and mentality that lead to the failure is still there, you are wasting your time jus getting rid of the players, the new players will give the same results. 

 

Think we've all seen enough crappy franchises with an elite QB who are trapped to pretty much nothing more then personal accolades. Rodgers and Manning only getting one ring with their franchises is embarrasing, Marino is example of us having a homerun hitter and everything else around it useless would look like (what doing nothing with the rest of our franchise could look like)

 

Yea....every NBA team is pretty much always one player away from being relevant. In the NFL, having Aaron Rodgers is not necessarily a ticket to even .500.

 

And I don't feel like I'm watching an ancient team. The most obvious example of that went 90 yards for a TD last night.

 

I clearly think that Bruce Allen has had more than enough time here. And I don't have any emotions towards Jay one way or the other. But a willy nilly move to go 1-15 doesn't do all that much for me.

 

Cleveland, Buffalo, San Francisco, the Jets, etc should all be better if multiple top ten picks was all you needed to turn it around. It seems like once you hit that bottom rung of the NFL, you stay there for a long time.

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My take is that Snyder is not going to sell the team and he doesn't need to. What he needs to do is start doing his research on good GM's and people that know how to build a winning organization. My thoughts are first fire Allen now and Gruden the day after the season ends. Promote Doug Williams to GM and have him evaluate the FO personnel. Keep the good and get rid of the bad. Have Williams evaluate and conduct a search for a HC that has the respect of the players around the league. after the season Interview candidates from winning organizations such as New England and Pittsburg for example. Evaluate the scouting department and strength and conditioning department. Keep the good and get rid of the bad. 

After you find the next HC, hopefully within a month or two of the season ending, then evaluate each player and see who you are going to keep and let the others go. Let the HC fill out his coaching staff as he sees fit and only keep OL, Special Teams, and possibly Dline coaches. everyone else kick to the curb. Then devise a game plan for the draft that targets the positions they need to field a competitive team.

 

They need to draft an OG, ILB, CB, WR. Be a player in FA only if it fits the system and it doesn't break the bank. Trade away players that will bring value and draft picks. Trade up in the draft to get impact or discipline durable players that will help build a winning tradition. 

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I have alot of love for Doug Williams for what he did for us in 87.  But I cant understand why so many people think he can be part of the solution.  He's shown complete acceptance to be Snyder and Co's lapdog.

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So, I'm a bit torn.

 

I think I'd do a whisper search first. If the Redskins are entirely unattractive to my top coaching prospects because our number one QB is out then I might live with Gruden one more year until we can start fresh. If someone I really believe in or love is interested and excited (this would likely have to be a top D Coordinator because I can't see an offensive guy falling in love with our roster) then I'd can Gruden.

 

I would dump Allen the day after our final game of the season. I would probably let Williams too because he knowingly took the position of fall guy. As for the rest, I would seriously consider promoting Kyle Smith if we believe he is a star in the making and he might be. We've had two really good drafts in a row. We're still lacking superstars, but I like what we're doing in that department. If we think he is our FO version of McVay then let's not let another golden son go like we did with Schneider, McVay, etc. If we're not sold on Smith or if Smith is willing to stay put I'd look for the best GM prospect out there and blow his mind with a contract offer. Of course that GM would have final say on his staff, but if Smith is really good then it would be a no brainer to keep him.

 

As for 2019, I see it as a transition year. If Smith fully makes it back then we might be a one and done playoff team. If he can't and we are stuck with the contract then, I find the best cheapish free agent QB I can and tank aiming for a superstar QB draft prospect in 2020. That would be really tough to swallow PRwise since the fans have started abandoning the ship in droves, but I don't think a splashy free agent acquisition band aid is going to work either anymore. So, I'd hold my nose, be really upfront with the fans, and be willing to stink it up. I certainly would not sell out for a chance at 8-8.

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23 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, I'm a bit torn.

 

I think I'd do a whisper search first. If the Redskins are entirely unattractive to my top coaching prospects because our number one QB is out then I might live with Gruden one more year until we can start fresh. If someone I really believe in or love is interested and excited (this would likely have to be a top D Coordinator because I can't see an offensive guy falling in love with our roster) then I'd can Gruden.

 

I would dump Allen the day after our final game of the season. I would probably let Williams too because he knowingly took the position of fall guy. As for the rest, I would seriously consider promoting Kyle Smith if we believe he is a star in the making and he might be. We've had two really good drafts in a row. We're still lacking superstars, but I like what we're doing in that department. If we think he is our FO version of McVay then let's not let another golden son go like we did with Schneider, McVay, etc. If we're not sold on Smith or if Smith is willing to stay put I'd look for the best GM prospect out there and blow his mind with a contract offer. Of course that GM would have final say on his staff, but if Smith is really good then it would be a no brainer to keep him.

 

As for 2019, I see it as a transition year. If Smith fully makes it back then we might be a one and done playoff team. If he can't and we are stuck with the contract then, I find the best cheapish free agent QB I can and tank aiming for a superstar QB draft prospect in 2020. That would be really tough to swallow PRwise since the fans have started abandoning the ship in droves, but I don't think a splashy free agent acquisition band aid is going to work either anymore. So, I'd hold my nose, be really upfront with the fans, and be willing to stink it up. I certainly would not sell out for a chance at 8-8.

 

As a fan, I agree with your rationale for getting rid of Doug. But if you were Snyder, isn't a fall guy what you look for in a top executive? I assume that, paradoxically, he would be seeking that out not using it as cause for getting rid of someone. 

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Honestly, I’d replace Allen and then go for a soft rebuild to start with.  Let the new GM take the next year to evaluate the staff (coaches and scouts) before making major changes.  

 

With that said, I’d absolutely want that GM making some of the tougher personnel decisions - moving on from some of the high priced guys that aren’t pulling their weight.  Go easy on FA (roll over cap), and maneuver around the draft to try to get the best olineman and ILB they can.  Draft a young qb to develop (maybe 3rd round, unless they fall for a guy).  

 

I’d want Gruden to seriously consider firing Manusky and maybe promoting someone like Olvidatti or hiring outside.  I like the promotion angle because we get another year of Tomsula and Gray working with these young guys.  

 

Of course, I’m also alright with a full on house cleaning.  

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5 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

As a fan, I agree with your rationale for getting rid of Doug. But if you were Snyder, isn't a fall guy what you look for in a top executive? I assume that, paradoxically, he would be seeking that out not using it as cause for getting rid of someone. 

Perhaps, but if we hire outside I am not sure that an elite GM prospect will have any use for Doug Williams, especially in a position technically above him. So,if we're cleaning house, I think that means Doug has to go. If we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic then Doug can lead the conga line.

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1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Perhaps, but if we hire outside I am not sure that an elite GM prospect will have any use for Doug Williams, especially in a position technically above him. So,if we're cleaning house, I think that means Doug has to go. If we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic then Doug can lead the conga line.

 

I don't trust in Snyder's intellect/managerial acumen to do otherwise.

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Doesn't matter.

 

It's a culture problem. And it all starts from the top. Snyder has failed to promote a culture of accountability in the organization. Until the right culture pervades the walls, the front office, the locker room, success will be marginal and fleeting. You can hire Bill Belichick in his prime and he'd be more stunted here than when he was in old Cleveland. Winning only cures all when those victories are cultivated in the right soil or environment like seeds, otherwise they eventually whither from neglect.

Edited by BurgundyBooger

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The Redskins are at their most critical period in history.  Whatever Dan decides to do after this season will either rejuvenate the franchise or be the final nail in the coffin that will begin the death spiral.  

 

I started out as a Buffalo Bill’s fan back in the 1960’s and the fans back then hated Ralph Wilson the owner.  Hated him.  He was considered incompetent, cheap, out of touch, not caring etc.  The man even lived in Detroit and wasn’t even considered one of the locals...just a businessman from another city that owned the team.  However...around 1986 he promoted Bill Polian from Director of Player Personnel to General Manager.  Polian then hires Marv Levy, drafts Bruce Smith and convinces Jim Kelly to leave the USFL to join the Bills.  He then goes on to draft Thurman Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, Andre Reed, etc. and the Bills enter their glory years of reaching the Super Bowl four straight years.  Because of the turnaround, Bills fandom exploded so that they now..even today years after those glory years..have one of the most loyal fans in the NFL and Ralph Wilson’s reputation did a 180 degree turnaround so that the stadium was named after him and he was loved and revered before he died.  All because Ralph Wilson made one wise choice.

 

Same thing happened with Jack Kent Cooke.  When JKC decided to leave LA and come east to take more control of the Redskins away from Edward Bennett Williams who was just a minority owner...............Cooke went out and hired a talented player scout from Miami to be his GM...Bobby Beathard....who then Hired the OC of the Chargers....Joe Gibbs to be his HC.  The Redskins then entered their glory years during the 1980’s thru early 1990’s winning 3 Super Bowls.  Cooke was loved and appreciated by the fans because of those decisions and left behind a positive legacy.

 

Snyder is universally hated by the Redskins fans and is probably the most hated man in our region due to his inept performance as the owner of the Redskins.  He took a storied franchise and not only ran it into the ground but also made fans embarrassed to be associated with the team.  If he were to die now, his legacy would be even lower than Donald Sterling of the LA Clippers.  So Dan should be thinking more about how he will be perceived in the future based on his stewardship of the team.  He can no longer look at the Redskins as his toy to do as he wants with but should be thinking more along the lines of stewardship of a valuable regional franchise that has the potential to inspire, lift up, bring life, pride and excitement to an entire region.  

 

Time is running out but if Dan can come to his senses and make the right and bold choices of finding that talented GM first and then head coach....and in addition, realizes that he can’t play with his toy anymore but needs to get out of the way for the good of an entire region....then he may eventually rebuild his image and could very well make the transition from a hated owner to a loved and respected owner and in the process leave behind a legacy that this region and his family can be proud of.  

 

One can only hope....

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1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Good perspective.

 

At the end of the day, this is all entertainment. If anything, this helps to spend less time on the team and instead focus on the things that matter in life.

 

Playoff sports when your team is in it ... is amazing. True dopamine and adrenaline rush.

 

Sport is one of the true and pure human elements. Competitiveness. Facing your fellow man on an equal field. Competition is an inherent trait. Like bucks locking horns or rams banging heads.

 

We have been deprived of the feeling of cresting Mt Everest for so long .. weve forgotten just how beautiful the pursuit of perfection can be. The true joy and community bonding that can come from a playoff run. Look at the Caps.

 

image.png.6b452fd51f111f39190361e60f4c77b1.png

 

We ****ing deserve this. Pre-planning your superbowl menu, gathering family and friends, the excitement days leading up to it, the ****ing kickoff, the nail biting tenseness ... thats being alive man. Sports is one of many elements of human life imo. Im not saying sport is an important piece of life. It isnt nearly as important as family tree, doing right for those around you etc. but it shouldnt be cast off as "theres better things to do anyway" mantra. We have 168 hours in a week, give me competitive football for 4 of those and I can spend the remaining 164 watering my lawn or pushing the cart at target.

 

We deserve a complete life.

 

A whole life.

 

We deserve to know what it feels like for the week leading up to your team in the SB.

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This hurts to write, and it is with a very heavy heart that I have to announce this decision... I've spent a lot of time tearing myself up inside deliberating over this, but it is the right thing to do

 

We must rebuild.  In doing so, we must trade our very best player, Tress Way, for as many first round draft picks that we can get.  Though losing our very best player will cause a lot pain during the rebuilding years, the youth and talent brought in His place will fuel the Redskins victories for the next decade.  Think of the Dynasty, folks.

 

tress-way.png?w=626

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1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

But a willy nilly move to go 1-15 doesn't do all that much for me.

 

Cleveland, Buffalo, San Francisco, the Jets, etc should all be better if multiple top ten picks was all you needed to turn it around. It seems like once you hit that bottom rung of the NFL, you stay there for a long time.

Of course, by the same logic, if constantly fighting towards the middle was all you needed than Washington, Cincinnati, Dallas and Miami would have elevated themselves to Super Bowl status a long time ago. All those lists prove is that you have to have a level of competence in your FO for your team to succeed. 

 

And the teams on your list seem to have brighter futures than the teams on mine. A lot brighter, depending on how you feel about those young QBs. 

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2 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

This hurts to write, and it is with a very heavy heart that I have to announce this decision... I've spent a lot of time tearing myself up inside deliberating over this, but it is the right thing to do

 

 

 

Way to soon man. The wounds from moving on from The Red Snapper are way to fresh.

 

-----------------

 

It’s also pretty wonderful that my awareness rating was 59. You make it sound like I wake up in the morning, helplessly **** and piss myself, then lose three of my teeth before I discover that I am trying to eat a rock for breakfast

 

I have received the impression that you feel that I am lacking in the agility category. I should consider a walk through my living room where I don’t crash through a wall or kick over furniture a resounding success. My agility rating on your game is 33. It makes it sound like I just topple over if I start walking too fast. Ted Washington is rated a 40 in agility. He is listed at 365 pounds. If Ted Washington tied a white lady up and made her wear a metal bikini, he’d look just like Jabba the Hut.

 

image.png.5c4529743244b5b8814111bfe607c9bd.png

 

edit - is The Red Snapper's letter to Madden the best thing that has happened to us since 1997? **** me sideways

Edited by Why am I Mr. Pink?
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28 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Doesn't matter.

 

It's a culture problem. And it all starts from the top. Snyder has failed to promote a culture of accountability in the organization. Until the right culture pervades the walls, the front office, the locker room, success will be marginal and fleeting. You can hire Bill Belichick in his prime and he'd be more stunted here than when he was in old Cleveland. Winning only cures all when those victories are cultivated in the right soil or environment like seeds, otherwise they eventually whither from neglect.

To me, the only way to do things right, and the only way to lure the best possible candidate, is to identify a person to oversee the football operation and give him complete control. That means an ironclad contract that the person we're hiring is in charge of all football decisions, and if Snyder overrules him he has to release him from his contract and pay it all off, plus a penalty. And that person is given, say 5 years and his salary is fully guaranteed, ad again, paid a penalty if fired.

 

That would, theoretically, make the job attractive to the kinds of people we would want to rebuild this team, and give them time to do so right. Otherwise, the best we can do is likely find another unemployed alcoholic, or an aging retread, and hope for the best. 

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33 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

To me, the only way to do things right, and the only way to lure the best possible candidate, is to identify a person to oversee the football operation and give him complete control. That means an ironclad contract that the person we're hiring is in charge of all football decisions, and if Snyder overrules him he has to release him from his contract and pay it all off, plus a penalty. And that person is given, say 5 years and his salary is fully guaranteed, ad again, paid a penalty if fired.

 

That would, theoretically, make the job attractive to the kinds of people we would want to rebuild this team, and give them time to do so right. Otherwise, the best we can do is likely find another unemployed alcoholic, or an aging retread, and hope for the best. 

 

This is where I get sad. I feel like Snyder has been largely hands-of since the Spurrier years. Gibbs invited him to be involved. Zorn was a non-entity. Shanahan and he.....I still don't have a great sense of what was happening there.

 

Really, since Allen got here, Snyder seems to be a non-entity. He doesn't talk to anyone. You never hear about him. His little double fist celebration last night felt like the first time I've seen him in years.

 

I still blame him for everything that has gone wrong here, because it's his team. But part of me suspects that he is almost too hands-off at this point. It feels like the entire organization from top to bottom is now a reflection of Bruce Allen's personality more than anything.  

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It starts with Dan.  We have never ever done a rebuild in his tenure.  We have done multiple renovations to a foundation that needs to be gutted.  He simply will not accept this.  We literally have 0 promise on offense (outside of juice).  We dont even have a top 3 WR on this staff.  We dont even utilize our top 5 TE properly anymore.  This defense stayed healthy and is this bad.  Need new LBs 

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23 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

This is where I get sad. I feel like Snyder has been largely hands-of since the Spurrier years. Gibbs invited him to be involved. Zorn was a non-entity. Shanahan and he.....I still don't have a great sense of what was happening there.

 

Really, since Allen got here, Snyder seems to be a non-entity. He doesn't talk to anyone. You never hear about him. His little double fist celebration last night felt like the first time I've seen him in years.

 

I still blame him for everything that has gone wrong here, because it's his team. But part of me suspects that he is almost too hands-off at this point. It feels like the entire organization from top to bottom is now a reflection of Bruce Allen's personality more than anything.  

To me, the problems with Snyder at this point are mainly to do with his reputation and his desire to stay involved, even at what I agree is a reduced amount at this point. That reputation is going to make it hard to bring the best candidates on board, because if you were sought after, would you really want to hitch your future to the hope that Snyder is going to behave? And the handling of the McLovin situation, plus the little dribbles that leak out about him being in on the Alex Smith and Reuben Foster decisions are just going to keep people from having enough faith that he's turned over a new leaf. 

 

But it seems so easy. If it were me interviewing, I would lay out the conditions I mentioned above, and how, after two decades, he should understand it has to be that way to reach the top. But I would tell  him he could be in on FA recruitment, with the firing up of Redskins1 that he loved. He could be in the draft room. He can be in on all the major personnel discussions. But the football people have to have the final say without any questions. And he can have no more RG3-like relationships, unless a player gets to a Peyton/Brady level of franchise icon-ship.

 

It seems so easy to work out, in theory. That's what makes it so frustrating.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly
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1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

To me, the problems with Snyder at this point are mainly to do with his reputation and his desire to stay involved, even at what I agree is a reduced amount at this point. That reputation is going to make it hard to bring the best candidates on board, because if you were sought after, would you really want to hitch your future to the hope that Snyder is going to behave? And the handling of the McLovin situation, plus the little dribbles that leak out about I'm being in on the Alex Smith and Reuben Foster decisions are just going to keep people from having enough faith that he's turned over a new leaf. 

 

But it seems so easy. If it were me interviewing, I would lay out the conditions I mentioned above, and how, after two decades, he should understand it has to be that way to reach the top. But I would tell  him he could be in on FA recruitment, with the firing up of Redskins1 that he loved. He could be in the draft room. He can be in on all the major personnel discussions. But the football people have to have the final say without any questions. And he can have no more RG3-like relationships, unless a player gets to a Peyton/Brady level of franchise icon-ship.

 

It seems so easy to work out, in theory. That's what makes it so frustrating.

 

To be honest, if I was in the type of position where I could make those types of demands of Snyder, I don't think I would want to make those types of demands. Who really needs a job where you need a detailed contract to "protect" you from your boss? Most people succeed best in a position where they are held accountable by someone. That type of contract would be that every interaction with Snyder would be clouded.

 

I just can't imagine any organization working when the COO is shielded completely from the CEO, and the two can't communicate in any meaningful way.

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3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I just can't imagine any organization working when the COO is shielded completely from the CEO, and the two can't communicate in any meaningful way.

That's really not what I said. I said virtually the opposite, in fact.

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1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That's really not what I said. I said virtually the opposite, in fact.

 

I know, but an agreement like you laid out would naturally create this environment.

 

Also, let's say you give the person the five year guaranteed penalty-filled contract and they suck....what happens then?

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6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I at least need to know Alex status.

 

Alex's status doesn't matter.  Worst case scenario he's unable to play in 2019.  Best case he can play in 2019 and continue to be a bottom-10 QB.  In either case, we owe him a ton of money that will impact our cap.

 

Quote

Are yall sure you are fine with intentionally losing for the next year or two?

 

2019, yeah.  Not like we have a choice.

 

2020, no.  It doesn't take that long to rebuild.  Not saying I expect 10-6, but I expect us to compete.

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1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I know, but an agreement like you laid out would naturally create this environment.

There's no reason it would. It would/should create the situation that exists in most successfully run NFL organizations, where the top football people consult and interact with the Owner, but make the football decisions.

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Also, let's say you give the person the five year guaranteed penalty-filled contract and they suck....what happens then?

Obviously it working would depend on hiring the right person. But let's not act like this is some kind of radical idea that would set the NFL on its head. Most GMs are given multi-year contracts that are guaranteed. The only difference is I'm putting in a penalty for early termination (because the person hired would need to be allowed oversee a rebuilding project) and for Owner interference (for obvious reasons). 

 

I mean, we essentially gave both Vinny and Bruce a decade each. The idea that giving 5 years to a sought-after GM candidate would be tough to deal with seems quaint and silly.

 

Also, personally, I would write the contract heavy on incentives. Fire me early and the team reaches a certain height after I'm gone, I get a big bonus because obviously I achieved what I was hired to do, etc. But that's down in the weeds stuff.

 

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