The official clean house thread.. lay out your plan for the future here

[Tsailand]

10 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

Holes include

 

QB

WR

Oline

LB

Edge Rusher

CB

Safety

 

so everything except D line and punter.

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

so everything except D line and punter.

He didn’t mention kicker.

 

Also didn’t mention TE but should have....

[Tsailand]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He didn’t mention kicker.

 

Kickers aren't a big deal IMO.  If you have a great one, great.  If you have a terrible one, fire him and get a average one.

[skins island connection]

6 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

Kickers aren't a big deal IMO.  If you have a great one, great.  If you have a terrible one, fire him and get a average one.

 

 We've gotten rid of a few kickers because they missed a crucial FG at some point.

They signed with another team and had a great career. And kickers aren't usually the meat heads holding out demanding to be paid the top dollars, they know they could have a bad season and end up never being picked, so they're fine making what their contracts say.

 

But they ARE crucial to any team's success.

[skins island connection]

If they clean house, I would like to see them getting a DC who runs a good 4-3; the 3-4 hybrid thing has been a failure for the most part.

Even a DC who has ideas of something other than a 3-4 or a 4-3; that would be even better, because the 3-4 is run by most teams in the league, so it boils down to who has the best squad; introduce a new variation of a defensive style, something other teams have no familiarity with, and they have no idea how to attack it, so success could be achieved sooner. Maybe. 

The 4-6 comes to mind; Buddy Ryan was a genius [ except against Gibbs ] with this, and he found the right players to do it as well. Whoever they decide on, has to understand the concept of getting players who are more mobile; the days of grunge scrums, slopping in dirt and mud with monsters who have no necks are over, offense is the name of the game, so finding a DC who can use the offense to his advantage with the right players; no more slow, lumbering LBers only good in one aspect of the game.

[skinfan2k]

i'm kinda of tired of building the lines argument.  We have put alot of resources into both lines.  We need playmakers.  

[OVCChairman]

3 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

i'm kinda of tired of building the lines argument.  We have put alot of resources into both lines.  We need playmakers.  

 

 

I think we need a Guard, and tackle depth, but i agree with you.... I'd like to see us go after some game changers.  

[wunderhill]

President= Lafemina

Gm= Kyle Smith

HC= Peyton Manning

OC= Colt McCoy

DC=Kirk Olivadotti

QB= Will Grier

[TheYappingDog]

Okay folks - newbie here, this is my first post so please be gentle with me

 

What i want to see

 

Shop Kerrigan, Trent and Reed around the league, hopefully to teams who think they are "one player away" (sorry guys, it aint us!) - Our rebuild is going to take a couple of years so my plan is that if someone offers say a 3rd for Kerrigan, we say we'll defer payment and take a 2nd instead the following draft -  this is the rebuild and we're gonna need all the picks and cap space we can get our hands on

 

Let's get it in our heads that 2019 is a write off on the field - it's the only way

 

1st round 2019 we pick the best wide receiver available (unless there is a VERY compelling reason not to i.e. they aren't good enough) I've not studied the college game so I don't know if this is an up year for wideouts (if it isn't scrap my idea and go BPA). My reasoning is that if, as i read here and elsewhere WR is the position that takes the longest to acclimatise to the pros let's him get up to speed 2019 (in my head, i've written off 2019 and a bit of pain is necessary to avoid this perpetual pukefest)

 

Gruden has to go - maybe he is a nice guy, he seems it but i have no faith in him to turn this franchise around, develop a young qb or to make in game adjustments - those are three fatal flaws in a HC. Sorry Bub, it's been nice knowing you

 

New head coach - i don't know, I think Greg Williams at Cleveland is turning that ship around, but he's not an offensive mind, but that's fine. Get the very best OC out there, I'd like Mike McCarthy (look at the job he did with Aaron Rodgers). I'm also kind of hoping Todd Bowles gets the bullet at the Jets and we bring him in as DC (from articles i've read, he really understands D)

 

Whoever is OC gets to pick their QB in round 1 in the 2020 draft and develop their offence around them - this is one of the reasons i don't want Gruden to hang around as I think he'd "ruin" an young qb and eventually he goes and then a new scheme and blah blah (I remember the Jason Campbell years)

 

Something I've always fantasised about is picking qb in round one and picking his go to college receiver in a later round (or even  in round one or two if he is a good one). This gives the new qb a security blanket as soon as he comes into the pros and he already has rapport with his receiver

 

go 4-3 - i've always hated the 3-4 (yes I know it's hybrid...passing league....modern era....blah blah). IMHO to make a 3-4 work you need two essential pieces, a dominant NT AND an elite OLB, because of the nature of those positions, they are probably the most elite athletes on the defense and as most teams in the NFL run the 3-4 not only are they rare as hen's teeth but they also cost a premium

 

Run the 4-3 with Matty I, Da'ron and Jon A (perhaps Allen as left End a'la Charles Mann ) and draft a twitchy mid-round tweener for right-end. I realise we have a weakness at inside linebacker so the 4-3 means we only need to upgrade one of the inside linebackers (i keep toying with the idea of Ryan anderson moving to MLB as he definately has the size

 

Develop Settle and use him in rotation at the DT spots to keep the interior DL fresh

 

A proper training/strenght/rehab facility as we've got to do something about the injuries - our IR resembles a MASH unit

 

all pre-season with knee-braces for the O and D linemen - they come off when the games count

 

oh - and no flash long-term expensive free agents until we get to the playoffs two years in a row -  that's when we enter "over the top" mode

 

let me know what you think

 

 

That's it guys - have to go now as it's time for my medication and nurse doesn't know i have access to a computer

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said:

That's it guys - have to go now as it's time for my medication and nurse doesn't know i have access to a computer

I’ve seen a lot of stuff on ExtremeSkins through the years, this might be one of the more interesting sign offs I can remember....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve seen a lot of stuff on ExtremeSkins through the years, this might be one of the more interesting sign offs I can remember....

 

I'm guessing this is truthful of many posters.

[desertbeagle85]

18 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

so everything except D line and punter.

 

Lol you forgot long snapper. 😉

According to Todd McShay is top 22 players in draft consist of 19 defensive players. So yeah the skins are boned. 

[Tsailand]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve seen a lot of stuff on ExtremeSkins through the years, this might be one of the more interesting sign offs I can remember....

 

The rest of his post was on point.  Hope Nurse Ratchet doesn't take away his computer.

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve seen a lot of stuff on ExtremeSkins through the years, this might be one of the more interesting sign offs I can 

This is probably what too much Redskins football does to you eventually. 

 

Alright, I'm signing off now, back to slinging my feces at prison guards as they walk by. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

21 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

This is probably what too much Redskins football does to you eventually. 

 

Alright, I'm signing off now, back to slinging my feces at prison guards as they walk by. 

Well, as long as it's your feces you're slinging.

[clskinsfan]

I had been avoiding the nuclear option the past couple of seasons because I believed that Gruden was a decent coach. I WAS WRONG. It is time to blow the whole thing up. So here are my thoughts on that:

 

 I was playing with some of the cap numbers and the Skins can realistically get out of Smith's contract hell by cutting Brown, Norman and Reed. That is a start. I would add Thompson and Davis to the trash heap in the off season as well. You could obviously try to trade them and get something out of them. But who wants our trash? That would put us around 18-20 Mill under the cap by my calculations. Even with having to eat Smiths contract. That should be enough to go after a decent QB in the off season. Whoever that is debatable. But both Tyrod Taylor and Teddy Bridgewater should be available this year. And you could use your first or second rounder to take a QB to groom in the mean time. Here is my plan:

 

FIRE GRUDEN AND ALLEN RIGHT NOW.

 

Hire a REAL GM and let him find his head coach.

 

Off season cuts or trades.

Alex Smith.  Post June 1 cut.  Cap hit -19.5 million

Josh Norman.  Cap savings: +8.5 Million

Jordan Reed.  Cap savings: +6.1 Million

Zach Brown.  Cap savings +5.75 Million

Vernon Davis. Cap savings +5.0 Million

Stacy Mcgee. Cap savings +2.4 Million

Chris Thompson. Cap savings +3.0 Million

 

Net cap gain:  +11.25 Million.

 

With the cap increase and our current salaries that would leave us roughly 18-20 Million under the cap.

 

Sign:

Offense:

Ty Nsekhe. He has become invaluable as our swing lineman. Pay the man for 2 or 3 more years.

A QB. Either Bridgewater or Taylor on a 2 or 3 year deal. Maybe Josh Johnson or Butt Fumble could hold you over until a rookie is ready to play?

A LG. We need a LG to make the line complete. There will be some decent ones available this off season. Saffold and Iupati should both be available. either would be great next to Trent.

 

Defense:

A slot CB. We are going to be young on the outside at corner next year. Need a vet in the room.

A ILB.  I dont think there is going to be anything good on the market. But you will need another body in the room. 

 

Draft:

Round 1:  QB, WR or CB best player available at those 3 positions.

Round 2: QB. WR or CB Best available left after whichever you chose in first.

Round 3: CB, TE, OG or WR. A QB must be drafted in the first 2 rounds this year.

Rounds 4-7 best player available. We are going to need a pass catching TE, G and at some point though.

 

That gives you a depth chart like this:

Offense:

QB: Teddy Bridgewater or Taylor, Rookie QB, Maybe a 3rd like McCoy/Johnson/Butt Fumble

RB: Guice, Bibbs, Perine, Marshall and a Rookie/Cheap FA

WR: Rookie WR, Doctson, Harris,  Richardson, Chesson, Quinn, Davis, Sims

TE: Sprinkle, Cheap FA- Maybe Reed or Davis would be willing to take a team friendly deal? and Rookie TE

OT: Williams, Moses, Nsekhe, Christian

OG: Scherff, FA Guard, Bergstrom, Bowanka, Rookie swing player

Center: Roullier, FA/Rookie

 

Defense:

DL: Allen, Payne, IO, Settle, Brantley, Rookie/cheap FA

ILB: Mason Foster, Rueben Foster,  Hamilton, Harvey Clemons

OLB: Kerrigan, McPhee, Anderson, Mckinzey and a Rookie Edge

CB: Rookie, Moreau, Dunbar, Johnson, Stroman, Alexander, Cheap FA

S: Swearinger, Nicholson, Everett, Apke, Rookie/Cheap FA

 

Teams:

Way, Hopkins, Sundberg.

 

Now. This isnt a Super Bowl winning roster by a long shot. But it should make you competitive while your new coach and GM get their feet under them. It gives you a pretty versatile roster as well. Nice balance of youth and age. Obviously that roster is over 53 players. But you would have the Practice Squad to stash a couple of rookies on.  Continue building through the draft and you could be a real contender in a couple of seasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sticksboi05]

Pretty simple. Fire Bruce Allen immediately and then find a proper team president to pick a proper GM who actually understands football. 

 

Let that GM do his job and stay the F out of his way.

[crabbypatty]

This is definitely the time to switch back to a 4-3 when the new staff comes in.

P Smith is likely gone, Foster and maybe Z Brown should be gone as well.

 

switching to a 4-3 wouldn't be a bad deal IMO.

It would put Payne and Allen at the 3 where they belong, Settle would be the rotational 3 guy. Kerrigan could play end, and they'd have to find a FA or draft another one.

R Anderson is miscast as a 3-4 OLB, he needs to be a 4-3 OLB/situational pass rusher, where I think he would shine. (even though he had success at bama in their 3-4 look, it's not so good here)

Jettison Foster and maybe Brown, and draft a MLB in the 2nd, maybe even the 1st if the right guy is there.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I had been avoiding the nuclear option the past couple of seasons because I believed that Gruden was a decent coach. I WAS WRONG. It is time to blow the whole thing up. So here are my thoughts on that:

 

 I was playing with some of the cap numbers and the Skins can realistically get out of Smith's contract hell by cutting Brown, Norman and Reed. That is a start. I would add Thompson and Davis to the trash heap in the off season as well. You could obviously try to trade them and get something out of them. But who wants our trash? That would put us around 18-20 Mill under the cap by my calculations. Even with having to eat Smiths contract. That should be enough to go after a decent QB in the off season. Whoever that is debatable. But both Tyrod Taylor and Teddy Bridgewater should be available this year. And you could use your first or second rounder to take a QB to groom in the mean time. Here is my plan:

 

FIRE GRUDEN AND ALLEN RIGHT NOW.

 

Hire a REAL GM and let him find his head coach.

5

 

Allen certainly I would prefer to keep Gruden.

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Off season cuts or trades.

Alex Smith.  Post June 1 cut.  Cap hit -19.5 million

Josh Norman.  Cap savings: +8.5 Million

Jordan Reed.  Cap savings: +6.1 Million

Zach Brown.  Cap savings +5.75 Million

Vernon Davis. Cap savings +5.0 Million

Stacy Mcgee. Cap savings +2.4 Million

Chris Thompson. Cap savings +3.0 Million

2

 

You have written off Smith I am not ready to go there yet.  Norman, Reed, Brown, and Mcgee can go, I agree with you.  I like Vernon Davis and Thompson.

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Sign:

Offense:

Ty Nsekhe. He has become invaluable as our swing lineman. Pay the man for 2 or 3 more years.

 

Agreed

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

A QB. Either Bridgewater or Taylor on a 2 or 3 year deal. Maybe Josh Johnson or Butt Fumble could hold you over until a rookie is ready to play?

1

 

I don't want to draft a QB in 2019 but would not be adverse to upgrades FA but I would prefer to pick a kid off the practice squad. 

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

A LG. We need a LG to make the line complete. There will be some decent ones available this off season. Saffold and Iupati should both be available. either would be great next to Trent.

3

 

I think the OL is where the investments should be made.  Both tackles have to been gimpy I would draft an OT, an OG and a OG/C with the first three picks.  After that would look to picking up some receivers.

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Defense:

A slot CB. We are going to be young on the outside at corner next year. Need a vet in the room.

A ILB.  I dont think there is going to be anything good on the market. But you will need another body in the room. 

2

 

Makes sense

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Draft:

Round 1:  QB, WR or CB best player available at those 3 positions.

Round 2: QB. WR or CB Best available left after whichever you chose in first.

Round 3: CB, TE, OG or WR. A QB must be drafted in the first 2 rounds this year.

 

 

No, the decrepit OL is the critical need that needs to be addressed first and then some speed outside.  In 2020 we can draft a QB in Smith is unable to return to form the 2019 draft should improve the offense for a rookie QB or Smith. 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I

 

Off season cuts or trades.

Alex Smith.  Post June 1 cut.  Cap hit -19.5 million

 

 

I dont pretend to understand the different scenarios available for the Skins to get out of Alex Smith's contract but I havent read any that simply have Alex as dead cap of 19.5M for 2019 and no dead cap afterwards.

 

April 5, 2019 - date his injury guarantee vests = 2020 salary of 16M becomes guaranteed.

 

Cut before 4/5/19 = dead cap in 2019 of 36.6 but probably a whomping 52.6M dead cap hit for 2019.

 

Cut after 4/5/19 = ??? cant figure it out. Sounds like a lot of money spread out over a lot of years.

 

This Alex Smith contract is just absolutely ridiculous. Im trying not to be a "victim of the moment" and overly sensationalize current news and downplay history but this seems like a bigger step back than the RG3 trade.

 

------------------------------------

 

Regardless of whether I’m incorrect on the acceleration of the guarantee, [neither] $36.6 million [n]or $52.6 million is ... feasible for Washington. The team has just $19 million in projected cap room for next year. Take off $17 million for Smith and they have nothing to spend. Add in the extra $16 million on top of that and they are in the worst position of any team in the NFL.

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/12/8/18131998/trying-to-understand-the-alex-smith-contract-and-impact-on-salary-cap

 

------------------------------------------

 

We are in cap hell because we traded and signed a 34 year old Qb to a bunch of guaranteed money with a contract that ran until he would be 38 or so?

 

----------------------

 

Ya wanna feel really really ****ty this Monday?

 

Check out Kendal Fuller's PFF grade .... at 23.8 years old making 647K this year and 750k next year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/kendall-fuller/10718

[Warhead36]

We need to do what the Caps did before 04 or the Nats did before 09. Nuke nuke NUKE and start over completely from scratch.

 

This franchise in the Snyder era has never truly committed to a full scale rebuild, except for the Marty year. Its always bandaids on top of bandaids. We need major reconstructive surgery.

[NoCalMike]

The Raiders just fired Reggie McKenzie.  How can we convince  Mark Davis that a  Jon Gruden/Bruce Allen duo will bring them glory?  If we are going the bribe route, mark me down for $20.

[Conn]

Posted this in response to a specific post but then realized it was in the Alex Smith thread. Poor dude. I'll post it here for better discussion that doesn't derail--

 

The Bears D is the star of the show right now but they also have a talented rookie QB on a cheap contract, signed him a WR1 in FA, signed another deep threat WR in FA, signed a receiving TE in FA, and drafted a possession WR2/slot type in the 2nd round. To go along with years of building an OL so that two 5th round picks at RB with complementary skill-sets can either make explosive plays or salt away the clock as needed. The Bears D is elite but it's not carrying some poorly built offense or something. 

 

The key to winning in today's NFL is an offensive-minded HC (aka an elite playcaller who can't be hired away) paired with a franchise QB (preferably on a rookie contract),  some playmakers, and a defense that can be variable in terms of how good it is, a sliding scale established by how good or bad the offense is. You pass to take the lead and run the ball to keep it and grind away the clock andopposing defenses. 

 

Even the Rams follow this. They have Gurley and they still pass to take the lead and run to keep it. Their pass-heaviness can bite them at times but it also leads to Gurley facing the most 6-7 man boxes in the NFL. 

 

All this to say--just because our promising young players are mostly on D, and Gruden failed because he was misidentified as some young genius--please don't trash the correct idea of wanting a young innovative offensive-minded wunderkind as HC. It is correct, and the main way forward in today's NFL imo. The league has changed big time in favor of offenses--not only the base rules of the game but also the penalties they are calling now. A defense has to be incredibly good and consistent to be the difference maker you want, now. Keeping continuity with an elite playcalling HC and franchise QB, rotating parts around them, might actually be easier with the proper process than assembling and keeping together an elite defense for multiple years, and then watching it fall apart due to the cap.

 

This league is geared towards passing offenses and keeping those offensive drives alive via penalties now. Take advantage of that. Anyone who, long term, hangs their hat on a defensive-minded HC and the scouting/signing ability of your FO to keep 11 great players together on a disadvantaged side of the ball is living in the past imo. 

[volsmet]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:03 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Great thread idea! Here's mine: 

 

1) Fire Allen and turn things over to Lafemina and Schaffer to staff and build. That means that EVERYONE under those two is up for evaluation, but they can retain people too. There's no point in starting over if you're going to saddle these guys with people. They should have a blank sheet of paper and build the front office. 

 

2) Obviously this means that Gruden is likely gone. I don't put as much blame on him as many do, but I think his time has run its course. 

 

3) I would like to see Kyle Smith given the GM role, but if the guys in #1 are making decisions, I don't really care who is named. 

 

4) Lastly, I hope that the personnel guys decide to get value for many of our named players. Trent Williams is a warrior and has been great. But he won't be in his prime by the time we are good again. Trade him. Same with guys like Kerrigan or Reed. The only players I'd have as "untouchable" are guys like Guice, the young DL, some of the young DBs, etc. 

 

So, I guess my plan is start over at the top and allow EVERYTHING to be on the table...please throw loyalties and nostalgia out the window and allow smart and reasonable guys to shape the future. 

 

 

 

On 12/4/2018 at 10:08 AM, bird_1972 said:

 

Couldn't agree with this point more. 

 

Absent a change in ownership, not only replacing the FO (obvious), we need to do this. Just blow up the team. 

 

Trade these talented guys and let's stop holding onto them thinking we are just a couple of pieces away from being a contender. That's what got us convinced to give up the farm for Alex Smith. 

 

Get as many draft picks as we can, suck for a year, and then in 2020 draft we will have a high end pick to grab a franchise QB. 

 

Hopefully, we have a competent FO that can make those calls by then. 

 

That said, with Snyder, none of the above is likely to happen.

 

We are a year late, but it’s good to see far more on board with trading Trent. It’s unfortunate to have sacrificed the value we did by not making this move last spring, but it needs to be done, Trent is an asset that needs to be invested in building a contender, not wasted like a Joe Thomas was.

 

[volsmet]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:17 AM, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Kyle Smith = GM

Doug Williams = President

 

Find HC, let HC fill coaching staff.

 

Word is Kyle Smith knows his stuff. By word, I mean Cooley. I think Kyle Smith may be poached if we dont promote him to a protected position. I like Doug but will Snyder like Doug in that spot? Thats usually reserved for a Snyder minion henchman. Someone Snyder can trust to report directly to him above everyone else, someone who he can golf with and basically be Snyder's eyes and ears. Im on the outside looking in but I dont think Snyder will trust Doug to be as loyal and covert as Snyder demands.

 

Do something with these 2019 cap hits:

 

14.5    Norman

13.9     Kerrigan

12.5    Scherff (5th yr option, pretty sure its fully guaranteed)

8.7      Zach Brown

6.3      Vernon Davis

4.8     McGee

 

Scherff is the only real debate imo. If he wont sign a reasonable LTD, then I guess we keep him for 2019 then let him walk. No way we can pay him like a top 10 G. Unless he takes a discount, guards just arent worth over 10M imo. Drafting a guard with a top 10 pick has proven to be wasteful imo. You dont get that rookie contract benefit bc they basically make top G money right away.

 

Jordan reed is set to count 9.7 against 2019 cap with a 3.6 dead money hit if released. Id just keep him or trade him for a 3rd.

 

edit - Ozzie Newsome is leaving the Ravens ...perhaps he can work in tandem with Kyle Smith?I know we need to protect Kyle Smith from poaching.

 

 

I believe the value of guards is higher than its been, if you can keep pressure out of the middle & run in the redzone, you are set up nicely in a league that has QBs able to get rid of the ball so quickly now. A QB can’t do anything with pressure up the middle, that’s what leads to most turnovers & negative plays — it’s also more difficult to help a guard that gets beat than a tackle, it’s easier to help vs Mack than Donald. I don’t think Scherff is a good enough guard to sign long term for elite money, but guard is a position I would invest in. The Colts finally started taking the middle of the line seriously, with elite draft picks, and it’s made all the difference for Luck. Guard is the most underrated position, imo.