Who should be the next head coach for the Skins

[Csup]

8 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

In his first five years as a HC Bill Bellichick was 36-44 with the Browns. 1 PO, 1W-1L.

That is not very good...

 

And he's 41-54 until he got Tom Brady...

That is still not very good.

 

Since then, he's on talk as the GOAT...

 

And you can talk about the Browns being a mess. We were a mess when Jay arrived.

Let me know when the next Tom Brady walks through the doors of Redskins Park.

[goskins10]

Any head coaching change that is not accompanied with Bruce Allen being removed from football operations is s failure waiting to happen.  

 

12 minutes ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

For real, why are many acting like this seasons over? This same wounded, battered offense could have easily put 30 points on the board against a very good Dallas Defense, if blatant calls would have been made. That's pretty freaking good with an offense that's lost key players at every position. One huge addition coming back soon with Chris Thompson. This team is by far finished this season, we're just about to get started!

 

I get what you are saying and in fairness you make some good points. But I think it’s also fair to be looking forward to the possible outcomes.  And one very real possibility based on recent history is that the team dies not finish well and we are again looking at a mediocre to below average team. 

 

 Having said that, I hope you are right.  Would love for the team to make a run and take this division.   

[Wildbunny]

2 minutes ago, Csup said:

Let me know when the next Tom Brady walks through the doors of Redskins Park. 

Hmmm

 

I was compairing Jay first 5 years as a HC in the NFL to Bill Bellichick. Which are roughly the same stats... Because you judged Jay as not good enough. Bellichick was not good enough.

 

Many around here are complaining about letting McVay go, who we couldn't retain in any way...

I'm pretty sure that if we fire Jay this year and he succeeds elsewhere, people will complain about letting him go, furthermore if we sucks even more after Jay leave.

 

Now, everyone can have fun and go search for topics from 2015/2016 when McVay was the OC around here. He was far from popular. His RZ play calling was a hot topic on any given sunday. Many asked for his ass to get cut. He was vilainized for abandonning the run early, and so on...

 

Guy now he's just seen as God made HC...

[OVCChairman]

21 minutes ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

For real, why are many acting like this seasons over? This same wounded, battered offense could have easily put 30 points on the board against a very good Dallas Defense, if blatant calls would have been made. That's pretty freaking good with an offense that's lost key players at every position. One huge addition coming back soon with Chris Thompson. This team is by far finished this season, we're just about to get started!

 

 

Thank you... I seriously appreciate where you are coming from, as I have found myself on this side off the conversation quite a bit over the last 3 months.  The only difference is that I generally was the one talking about it regarding Alex Smith and his ability.  

 

I simply have no faith that Gruden can get it done.  Part of me wonders if Gruden would have been able to get it done with a full cast of characters, let alone the injury situation (we seem to find ourselves in each of his seasons).  

 

I hope you're right, and I'm rooting for it to happen.  Every Sunday I will be cheering on my beloved team.  Each defeat will hurt.  Don't get me wrong, we're not done... but the confidence that somehow we will figure it out is seriously lacking.  I've actually been ready to move on from Gruden since the start of the season because I don't believe in him.... That said, I'll gladly eat crow if he can prove me wrong, and I'll publicly say I was wrong.... I just fear that I'm not.  

[ncr2h]

Belichick produced an 11 win season for the Browns during his 4th season as their coach. He also won a playoff game against the Bill Parcells coached Patriots. Sure, if you take the total performance in the first 4 years of Belichick's and Gruden's careers they are roughly in line (31 wins for Belichick in his first 4 seasons, vs. 28 for Gruden), the devil is in the details. During Belichick's first 4 seasons, he at least hinted at the possibility of achieving greatness (via his 11 win season, and playoff win). Gruden hasn't shown the ability to make this team great.

[Csup]

14 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Hmmm

 

I was compairing Jay first 5 years as a HC in the NFL to Bill Bellichick. Which are roughly the same stats... Because you judged Jay as not good enough. Bellichick was not good enough.

 

Many around here are complaining about letting McVay go, who we couldn't retain in any way...

I'm pretty sure that if we fire Jay this year and he succeeds elsewhere, people will complain about letting him go, furthermore if we sucks even more after Jay leave.

 

Now, everyone can have fun and go search for topics from 2015/2016 when McVay was the OC around here. He was far from popular. His RZ play calling was a hot topic on any given sunday. Many asked for his ass to get cut. He was vilainized for abandonning the run early, and so on...

 

Guy now he's just seen as God made HC...

My point was this.  I think Brady has more to do with Bellichicks record than Belichick has to do with Tom Brady’s success.  

 

Remember, Belichick also failed as coach in Cleveland without a Tom Brady.

 

I’m essence, you said it.  It was when Belichick got Tom Brady that he started winning.  

 

If the Skins signed the greatest QB of all time, I’d be willing to let Gruden stay on.  Don’t think that will happen.

[Taylor 36]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Any head coaching change that is not accompanied with Bruce Allen being removed from football operations is s failure waiting to happen.  

Amen!

[JoggingGod]

18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If nothing else get rid of ****ing Callahan. Run game blows. O line cant stay on the field. That bull**** center slide earlier in the season helped cost us wins. That guy is criminally overrated. 

Dude the Redskins have always had ****ty RBs and injured lines. What can the guy do?

[Csup]

8 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

Belichick produced an 11 win season for the Browns during his 4th season as their coach. He also won a playoff game against the Bill Parcells coached Patriots. Sure, if you take the total performance in the first 4 years of Belichick's and Gruden's careers they are roughly in line (31 wins for Belichick in his first 4 seasons, vs. 28 for Gruden), the devil is in the details. During Belichick's first 4 seasons, he at least hinted at the possibility of achieving greatness (via his 11 win season, and playoff win). Gruden hasn't shown the ability to make this team great.

True.  He reverted to losing his last season but you can say there were major distractions (Cleveland getting ready to move to Baltimore). 

 

I just dont think he was the best comp

to Gruden... 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

Dude the Redskins have always had ****ty RBs and injured lines. What can the guy do?

Not much obviously. We've got no depth. Our starters aren't conditioned to play 8 games. Blame the backs all you want, but it's still on the guy doing the RB game plan. I'd scrap all of our offensive coordinators. They haven't done squat.

[RedskinsLegacy]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Thank you... I seriously appreciate where you are coming from, as I have found myself on this side off the conversation quite a bit over the last 3 months.  The only difference is that I generally was the one talking about it regarding Alex Smith and his ability.  

 

I simply have no faith that Gruden can get it done.  Part of me wonders if Gruden would have been able to get it done with a full cast of characters, let alone the injury situation (we seem to find ourselves in each of his seasons).  

 

I hope you're right, and I'm rooting for it to happen.  Every Sunday I will be cheering on my beloved team.  Each defeat will hurt.  Don't get me wrong, we're not done... but the confidence that somehow we will figure it out is seriously lacking.  I've actually been ready to move on from Gruden since the start of the season because I don't believe in him.... That said, I'll gladly eat crow if he can prove me wrong, and I'll publicly say I was wrong.... I just fear that I'm not.  

I do understand and believe me, I will never compare Gruden with Gibbs or anyone in that class. There are many flaws in his coaching, but some good in it also. We were getting torched in Dallas, but Grudens team kept punching and fighting their way back in. That's all heart and guts. If only 1 blatant call against Reed, it would have had us 1st and goal. This game could have tied and even won if other calls would have been made. Yes we made huge mistakes, especially on defense, and still fought our way back into this huge game, but after hearing some of these players, I would bet we don't make them in Philly. These are very fixable flaws, and it's the coaches responsibility to do so..  The rest of this season will show us the character of Jay Gruden. This team can win, and if Jay can't have them ready for these next 5 games, then he sure the hell doesn't belong in Washington. 

[OVCChairman]

Just now, RedskinsLegacy said:

I do understand and believe me, I will never compare Gruden with Gibbs or anyone in that class. There are many flaws in his coaching, but some good in it also. We were getting torched in Dallas, but Grudens team kept punching and fighting their way back in. That's all heart and guts. If only 1 blatant call against Reed, it would have had us 1st and goal. This game could have tied and even won if other calls would have been made. Yes we made huge mistakes, especially on defense, and still fought our way back into this huge game, but after hearing some of these players, I would bet we don't make them in Philly. These are very fixable flaws, and it's the coaches responsibility to do so..  The rest of this season will show us the character of Jay Gruden. This team can win, and if Jay can't have them ready for these next 5 games, then he sure the hell doesn't belong in Washington. 

 

 

I swear I hate having this back and forth because I want to believe, but the vast majority of the time when the team has had the golden opportunity to take over a season against an inferior opponent, they don't.  Gruden is great when it's sunny and 72, but the moment the lights come on and prosperity is within arms reach, we fall on our face.  That culture has been that way across multiple turnovers in roster.  3 different QBs have been criticized for the same problems BY GRUDEN himself.  2 different coordinators have looked completely hopeless against adjusting teams, primarily in the 2nd half.  COUNTLESS players have appeared to forget how to make a tackle at the worst time.  Play calling gaffs, clock management blunders, things that shouldn't be a frustration.  When the game is on the line this entire season, it's been our defense that has ended it... not the offense.  

 

I seriously hope you're right.  

[drowland]

37 minutes ago, Csup said:

My point was this.  I think Brady has more to do with Bellichicks record than Belichick has to do with Tom Brady’s success.  

 

Remember, Belichick also failed as coach in Cleveland without a Tom Brady.

 

I’m essence, you said it.  It was when Belichick got Tom Brady that he started winning.  

 

If the Skins signed the greatest QB of all time, I’d be willing to let Gruden stay on.  Don’t think that will happen.

 

The Browns improved every year under Belichick and then in that final year Modell announced mid season he was moving the team to Baltimore.  The Browns were tied with the Steelers for the division lead at the time.  Modell ran for the hills and left Belichick and his asst coaches to fend for themselves against an angry mob.  Gruden hasn’t had to deal with that.  

[RedskinsLegacy]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I swear I hate having this back and forth because I want to believe, but the vast majority of the time when the team has had the golden opportunity to take over a season against an inferior opponent, they don't.  Gruden is great when it's sunny and 72, but the moment the lights come on and prosperity is within arms reach, we fall on our face.  That culture has been that way across multiple turnovers in roster.  3 different QBs have been criticized for the same problems BY GRUDEN himself.  2 different coordinators have looked completely hopeless against adjusting teams, primarily in the 2nd half.  COUNTLESS players have appeared to forget how to make a tackle at the worst time.  Play calling gaffs, clock management blunders, things that shouldn't be a frustration.  When the game is on the line this entire season, it's been our defense that has ended it... not the offense.  

 

I seriously hope you're right.  

You're absolutely right OVCC, and it's great that our defense can finally win games for us, That just hasn't been the case for many years. The good news is our offense hasn't had time to practice together, much less than gel and get in sync, but are still putting points on the board. Watch when Thompson alone returns, our defense will get even better, as our time of possession will. With practice, staying healthy the rest of the season, and even getting Crowder back, we can be a step better. That 1 step is good enough to have beaten down both Texas teams we just lost to, and take care of the last 5 in our way to this division. None of them scare me, my only concern is finishing the season healthy.

[mike42]

It's unfair to fire Gruden when much of the problem has been the front office. Front office is a big reason why our offense is a mess. Despite the injuries, we have no depth. Jay has done well considering these problems. Unless Jay makes the final decisions in the front office, then he should resign or be fired at the end of season.

[veteranskinsfan]

Allen has to go.  Go for a young offensive guy who has potential just like when Beathard found a young Joe Gibbs years ago and Jack Kent Cooke trusted Bobby Beathard's judgement.

[OVCChairman]

42 minutes ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

You're absolutely right OVCC, and it's great that our defense can finally win games for us, That just hasn't been the case for many years. The good news is our offense hasn't had time to practice together, much less than gel and get in sync, but are still putting points on the board. Watch when Thompson alone returns, our defense will get even better, as our time of possession will. With practice, staying healthy the rest of the season, and even getting Crowder back, we can be a step better. That 1 step is good enough to have beaten down both Texas teams we just lost to, and take care of the last 5 in our way to this division. None of them scare me, my only concern is finishing the season healthy.

 

 

I hope youre right buddy. 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, ncr2h said:

Belichick produced an 11 win season for the Browns during his 4th season as their coach. He also won a playoff game against the Bill Parcells coached Patriots. Sure, if you take the total performance in the first 4 years of Belichick's and Gruden's careers they are roughly in line (31 wins for Belichick in his first 4 seasons, vs. 28 for Gruden), the devil is in the details. During Belichick's first 4 seasons, he at least hinted at the possibility of achieving greatness (via his 11 win season, and playoff win). Gruden hasn't shown the ability to make this team great.

 

List of HC with 1 PO win is long. Not sure all of them are proving greatness through it. Bill Cowher even won a SB so...

Now, I'm not sure ES would have found greatness in:

6-10

7-9

7-9

11-5

5-11

That place would have been nuts around here.

 

Jay has commanded great games throughout his tenure here against the Packers, Saints, Seahawks on top of my head. That could be seen as sign of greatness. And his lone playoff game he had to start a DB that got signed 2 days before, facing A Rodgers...

 

1 hour ago, Csup said:

My point was this.  I think Brady has more to do with Bellichicks record than Belichick has to do with Tom Brady’s success.  

 

Remember, Belichick also failed as coach in Cleveland without a Tom Brady.

 

I’m essence, you said it.  It was when Belichick got Tom Brady that he started winning.  

 

If the Skins signed the greatest QB of all time, I’d be willing to let Gruden stay on.  Don’t think that will happen.

Obviously I remember since I brought the comp.

 

My point anyway, is that Cleveland doesn't tell the whole story about Bellichick. And Jay Gruden's here probably do not.

 

Most of the time we believe that good HC tends to elevate their roster and believe Jay is underachieving in this department. But if you take into account the toxic environment he's in, then, well, you could argue he definately is. He got stripped of his WRs, his QB, had to deal with a bad D and no RB... And the guy still manages to keeps us afloat. Which all in itself is already a great accomplishment.

 

We've tried almost anything at HC even Joe Gibbs and Shanahan, and we failed badly on almost everyone of them.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, drowland said:

 

The Browns improved every year under Belichick and then in that final year Modell announced mid season he was moving the team to Baltimore.  The Browns were tied with the Steelers for the division lead at the time.  Modell ran for the hills and left Belichick and his asst coaches to fend for themselves against an angry mob.  Gruden hasn’t had to deal with that.  

But the INJURIES!!!!! It’s just as bad. 

 

Bruce and Dan FORCE Jay to have a non-creative game plan that includes running the ball with the same 3 plays on 85% of first does for 1.8 yards.  ITS THE FO!

 

Bruce and Dan force Jay to mismanage the clock consistently then defend his dumbassness and look like a bigger idiot.

 

Bruce and Dan are the reason we run a blitz package in front of soft coverage.

 

 

There are so many things that are in Gruden’s control that he screws up every week it’s amazing he still has a job.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But the INJURIES!!!!! It’s just as bad. 

 

Bruce and Dan FORCE Jay to have a non-creative game plan that includes running the ball with the same 3 plays on 85% of first does for 1.8 yards.  ITS THE FO!

 

Bruce and Dan force Jay to mismanage the clock consistently then defend his dumbassness and look like a bigger idiot.

 

Bruce and Dan are the reason we run a blitz package in front of soft coverage.

 

 

There are so many things that are in Gruden’s control that he screws up every week it’s amazing he still has a job.

 

 

This is where I'm at.... the things he does that rookies do, primarily during the game, I just cant get over them for a 5th year coach.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

Harbaugh is coming apart like a cheap suit today.

 

Im not interested.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Harbaugh is coming apart like a cheap suit today.

 

Im not interested.

For some reason Ohio State treats Michigan like it’s kid brother pretty consistently.

 

The real problem I have with either Harbaugh is that they are both ****s.  And (nickname of a male rooster). 

 

And its just hard to root for a ****.  Even if he’s your ****. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

For some reason Ohio State treats Michigan like it’s kid brother pretty consistently.

 

The real problem I have with either Harbaugh is that they are both ****s.  And (nickname of a male rooster). 

 

And its just hard to root for a ****.  Even if he’s your ****. 

 

Agreed.  Douchebag of the highest order.

[Dancing Bear]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Harbaugh is coming apart like a cheap suit today.

 

Im not interested.

Yeah, there's passion and too much passion. Harbaugh tends to look like a kid whom doesn't get his own way.

[Csup]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

List of HC with 1 PO win is long. Not sure all of them are proving greatness through it. Bill Cowher even won a SB so...

Now, I'm not sure ES would have found greatness in:

6-10

7-9

7-9

11-5

5-11

That place would have been nuts around here.

 

Jay has commanded great games throughout his tenure here against the Packers, Saints, Seahawks on top of my head. That could be seen as sign of greatness. And his lone playoff game he had to start a DB that got signed 2 days before, facing A Rodgers...

 

Obviously I remember since I brought the comp.

 

My point anyway, is that Cleveland doesn't tell the whole story about Bellichick. And Jay Gruden's here probably do not.

 

Most of the time we believe that good HC tends to elevate their roster and believe Jay is underachieving in this department. But if you take into account the toxic environment he's in, then, well, you could argue he definately is. He got stripped of his WRs, his QB, had to deal with a bad D and no RB... And the guy still manages to keeps us afloat. Which all in itself is already a great accomplishment.

 

We've tried almost anything at HC even Joe Gibbs and Shanahan, and we failed badly on almost everyone of them.

We could argue the point back and forth.  So I will say we will have to agree to disagree (except on the dysfunctional FO which won’t change).  But Jay reminds me more of another coach that improved throughout most of his tenure and even won a playoff game- Norval Turner.