Starting QB 2019???

[skinsmania123]

58 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

No way we give up our 1st for Rosen

Honestly I think this FO is dumb enough to do it.

[rumplestilskin]

8 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Honestly I think this FO is dumb enough to do it.

If that's dumb I don't know what smart is. Getting a top ten player in last year's draft that will play for free this year. All for pick 15. That's not dumb. We would have the position filled and go into the draft with a tighter list. Rosen is no slouch.

[Skinsinparadise]

Reading the PFF article and Keim's comments sounds like they think you got to give up a nice sum for Rosen because you get him so cheap since Arizona has to eat the signing bonus.

 

I just watched one of his college games.  I am no film guru so its just my layman's take and I got to watch more than 1 game to get a handle on a QB.  My take from that one game is he is a very smooth-fluid looking QB.  He throws with good balance and resets his feet well when needed.  The footwork and arm motion looks really smooth.   Arm strength good but not great. 

 

His mobility-athleticism reminds me of Kirk -- so so.   He's tough-fearless in the pocket but he's not great IMO (or at least he wasn't in the Texas A & M game) as for handling pressure.  He takes sacks.  He makes dumb decisions with pressure in his face.  You get the vibe that bad things happen when pressure comes to him.  So I can see why his TD-INT ratio was poor with Arizona.  Can that be fixed?  Maybe.   His issue IMO isn't that he gets skittish under pressure like some QBs but instead that he makes bad decisions in those split seconds when he has to get rid of the ball fast -- from what I observed.    But its also easy to see what people like about him -- he has that smooth effortless delivery and can hit receivers in stride with a quick release.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, HigSkin said:

I've posted a lot about Rosen and again, IMO hope they don't do it.  However, if he gets dangled out there and Miami or NYG have interest that good for Skins draft position.

 

I am sticking with if its a 2nd round or later am in favor but if its a first -- especially if its a first plus I am opposed.   I am starting to dig Drew Lock as an option if they want to go young QB.  He's not my favorite QB in the draft but he might be the most realistic at our draft spot.

 

And I get most draft geeks think my take is wrong and I should like Rosen more.  Maybe they are right.  Don't know.  I've dove a lot into watching Lock.  Am just starting to do it on Rosen.

 

Here's PFF take on it -- they think the cheapness of the contract makes Rosen a hot commodity.  Rookie QBs are cheap but Rosen is even cheaper because the Cards paid the signing bonus.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watching Rosen some more.  I can see how a QB guru type like Jay might fancy working with him.  He's really smooth and consistent as for his footwork.  He actually has some nifty moves in the pocket at times too.  I read he was a tennis player so he seems to have some attributes from that position -- footwork-balance, etc.

 

His arm strength is good.  I posted a clip below where he throws a 60 yard bomb accurately.   He makes though too many dumb decisions IMO.  In that regard, he reminds me of Eli.  He can get on a roll and then just foil it with a bad sack, INT, etc.  He's a better athlete though and has a better arm than Eli.  But I don't know if the issue is vision or decision making but from my point of view so far he makes dumb decision especially under pressure.  But unlike Eli he's not skittish under pressure.  Just watching him, he comes off to me as a dude that plays relaxed with a certain confidence. That confidence can get him in trouble because at times he throws to guys who aren't really open.  

 

Seemed like the rap last off season during training camp was Alex would let it fly for example to Doctson where Kirk was reluctant to do so.  In reality during the season that didn't happen though.  And I recall some beat guys were saying that Jay was privately frustrated that Alex wouldn't take enough chances.  Based on what I am watching so far, there would be no fear that Rosen would be reluctant to take chances -- for better or worse.

 

Not that Rosen goes crazy throwing into tight windows or double coverage like Rex did.  But it looks like he at times is bold with his throws to a fault.  I read today that the Redskins might like Lock.  Lock is the same way, he's not shy about letting it fly -- for better or worse. 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

(Dr Rosen) Rosen's Combine Bio weaknesses

• Durability is a concern
• Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school
• Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch
• Too casual in pocket set-up
• Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent
• Refuses easy throws at times
• Arm talent and strength are below average
• May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws
• Poor career deep ball completion rate
• Excess air under ball allows challenges
• Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top
• Needs better anticipation
• Poor mobility
• Struggles to elude early pressure
• Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move
• Too much hero ball
• Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away
• Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student
• Favorite Movie: Fletch

 

[rumplestilskin]

19 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

(Dr Rosen) Rosen's Combine Day weaknesses

• Durability is a concern
• Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school
• Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch
• Too casual in pocket set-up
• Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent
• Refuses easy throws at times
• Arm talent and strength are below average
• May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws
• Poor career deep ball completion rate
• Excess air under ball allows challenges
• Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top
• Needs better anticipation
• Poor mobility
• Struggles to elude early pressure
• Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move
• Too much hero ball
• Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away
• Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student
• Favorite Movie: Fletch

 

So now you kinda have to post his strengths. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Who cares what Rosen’s favorite movie is 😂 

 

sorry, no offense i just think it’s silly how that’s part of his combine day weaknesses  like it goes into how good or bad of a QB he is

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

No way we give up our 1st for Rosen

 

In his scenario, we would not be giving up a first.

Essentially, we would only be giving up just 17 spots in the draft.

That's almost no price at all.

Which is why there's no way the Cards agree to it, not a question of whether we would.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Rosen for our 2nd hands down. Rosen and a 3rd for 15 is fine too. 

 

I want rosen. Our QB situation is atrocious and not much can come our way at 15. Rosen would be a godsend for this team considering where we stand now ... srsly ... and $2m APY from 2019-2021? Sign me up. 

 

Whqtever pick you dont send for Rosen use to get a WR. Then draft a LG in the 3rd and go defense rest of the way. Would change the dynamic of this team very quickly going forward.

 

With Giants and Raiders among others sniffing around Rosen I fear 15 is what it’ll take. But if we can somehow land him with our 2nd, I’d take 15 and trade it back into the late 1st to regain that pick and draft one of the speedsters at WR. Butler Brown or Brown. 

[RandyHolt]

44 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

So now you kinda have to post his strengths. 

 

If I list his strengths Bruce may see it and pony up next years 1st as well.

 

I linked to the full bio as it was a bit much to post.  Now that we have NFL tape on him, I figured a whole bunch of the strengths vanished. I kinda thought we all know his strengths anyways - good size, pocket passer... and fluff.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Who cares what Rosen’s favorite movie is 😂 

 

sorry, no offense i just think it’s silly how that’s part of his combine day weaknesses  like it goes into how good or bad of a QB he is

 

It's not. I added it in for fans of the... ok obscure movie. 

[RandyHolt]

SI's Twitter

 

" Larry Fitzgerald says Antonio Brown doesn’t “understand how good he has it” playing with QB Ben Roethlisberger"

 

Interesting timing.... Arizona wanting to move on from Rosen already, is really all we need to know, right?  Low ball, Bruce.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching Rosen some more.  I can see how a QB guru type like Jay might fancy working with him.  He's really smooth and consistent as for his footwork.  He actually has some nifty moves in the pocket at times too.  I read he was a tennis player so he seems to have some attributes from that position -- footwork-balance, etc.

 

His arm strength is good.  I posted a clip below where he throws a 60 yard bomb accurately.   He makes though too many dumb decisions IMO.  In that regard, he reminds me of Eli.  He can get on a roll and then just foil it with a bad sack, INT, etc.  He's a better athlete though and has a better arm than Eli.  But I don't know if the issue is vision or decision making but from my point of view so far he makes dumb decision especially under pressure.  But unlike Eli he's not skittish under pressure.  Just watching him, he comes off to me as a dude that plays relaxed with a certain confidence. That confidence can get him in trouble because at times he throws to guys who aren't really open.  

 

Seemed like the rap last off season during training camp was Alex would let it fly for example to Doctson where Kirk was reluctant to do so.  In reality during the season that didn't happen though.  And I recall some beat guys were saying that Jay was privately frustrated that Alex wouldn't take enough chances.  Based on what I am watching so far, there would be no fear that Rosen would be reluctant to take chances -- for better or worse.

 

Not that Rosen goes crazy throwing into tight windows or double coverage like Rex did.  But it looks like he at times is bold with his throws to a fault.  I read today that the Redskins might like Lock.  Lock is the same way, he's not shy about letting it fly -- for better or worse. 

 

 

 

I think all of us know it takes our #15 plus to get Rosen.  Oakland stands the greatest chance of getting him with 3 1st round picks this year.  I don't think Oakland uses more than one of their 1st but they have the #4 in the 1st round this year and that's better than #15 just getting out of the gate.  I think we'd have to ante up our 2019 1st, 3rd, 5th to get him.  We need the extra picks to ensure we fill needs on this team at multiple positions.  What do I know though.  

[RandyHolt]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

...What do I know though.  

 

Probably more than me, and definitely more than Bruce.

 

I think the plan is taking shape. Try to land Murray if possible, and then if we fail go after Rosen. 

 

The Colt is our starter is the worlds thinnest smoke screen.

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Probably more than me, and definitely more than Bruce.

 

I think the plan is taking shape. Try to land Murray if possible, and then if we fail go after Rosen. 

 

The Colt is our starter is the worlds thinnest smoke screen.

I think it's pretty much written in stone that Murray will be a Cardinal.  Now it's just a matter of compensation for Rosen and who offers the most for him.  Colt is a backup QB, IMO and can only last 3 to 4 games this season.

[Peregrine]

3 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

If that's dumb I don't know what smart is. Getting a top ten player in last year's draft that will play for free this year. All for pick 15. That's not dumb. We would have the position filled and go into the draft with a tighter list. Rosen is no slouch.

Except his 1 year in the NFL was very poor, while granted that was on a poor team, thats now dinged his worth and put major doubts into whether hes a dud or not.  Anytime a team trades a player 1 year after drafting him because they want to upgrade the position, that screams to every other team that "We think hes terrible and made a huge mistake!", so any team then willing to give up about the same pick he was drafted with is really stupid.

[The Consigliere]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:37 PM, Renegade7 said:

Can we all agree that an inept QB will make development and evaluation of young talent nearly impossible?  If that's what y'all want JJ is NOT the answer.

Normally I'd agree w/you, but in this case. What young talent? As much as I loved Doctson the prospect, he's entering year 4 of his rookie deal and is unlikely to be resigned. No other WR on the roster is really worth a damn either other than possible slot option Trey Quinn. We'll just have to eat that contract we gave Richardson. He wasn't worth it, but so be it. He might have some value w/competent QB work, he didn't have it last year. Sprinkle was the wrong TE to draft in '17 as I said at the time, though he's perfectly adequate and a red zone threat, but not anything special, another quality TE class is coming after last year's disappointing group came through, so that could be interesting. Regardless, our offense is basically an injury prone quality OL when healthy, Derrius Guice pre-injury talent, Chris Thompson satellite back extraordinare, and then a disappointing WR corps along with Trey Quinn. What exactly are we evaluating? We don't have any talent on the offensive end that needs evaluating (we know what we have, which is mostly poor at best).

 

Tank for the '20 class unless we can get Rosen somewhat cheaply.

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 2/28/2019 at 6:32 PM, bakedtater1 said:

Big NO on rosen!!...i thought cowboy-killa had a good point a few posts above... I feel he needs to mature a lot.. I might not have any right saying this or feeling this because I know nothing about college ball but from what I've seen of Rosen I think he's to imature.. I guess I can YouTube highlights from his first year...but still..meh..

He was the #1 QB Recruit in the loaded '14 class. He was generally regarded throughout his college career as a lock to be an NFL starter at the next level w/all the tools. Mental make up is an issue, he comes across as a less interesting Trevor Bauer, basically tone deaf, and entitled and elitist and hyperconfident in his abilities. 

 

Personally, if I can get a Josh Rosen, who typically would go #1 overall in nearly all the NFL drafts since 2011, I'd happily trade our first for him, it's a minuscule price to pay for a guy with talent and tools. QB prospects w/his evals tend to hit at about a 45/55 to 60/40 rate, and he is significantly more talented then any of the QB's in the current class (technically Murray is also exciting, but he has certain issues including height which are quite frightening). My one major  concern is nothing like that of most you: essentially we will have lost half of his rookie contract w/one season where we didn't own his rights and one where we had no chance of achieving anything worth a damn either, the whole point of rookie QB's on cheap rookie deals is to take advantage of the cheapness to contend as quickly as possible while he's still cheap, but we aren't contending for squat Rosen or not, so we'll have already seen 2 years of his cheap rookie deal fly by w/zilch to show for it. Is that what we want, or would it be better to tank for 2020, while spending the '19/'20 offseason trying to give that 2020 QB prospect the talent he needs to be successful entering year 2 and 3 of his rookie deal (2021, 2022)? To me, things are so bad here that we should really be working to tank, and set the table for a rookie QB drafted in '20. Of course we're too stupid to do that, but it's a thought.  

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

Rosen for our 2nd round pick is reasonable because his stock is LOW after a statistically-ugly season.  (Aside from his weirdo-attitude, I had him rated as my fav 'pure-passing' QB in last years class.)  Maybe toss in a 4th in 2019 or a 2nd or 3rd in 2020, but nothing more. 

 

Cardinals have already played their hand by making it known they want Murray (which brings down Rosen's stock even further). HOWEVER, the Skins have played their hand by paying a crippled 34 year old QB 20+mil over the next few years with zero options.  Our desperation has left us with two options:  Trade picks to draft a QB who was being considered for #1 overall last year, or use this year's #15 on a QB who may have been drafted in later rounds in any other draft.

 

We are the ONLY trading partners that make sense with the Cardinals in this scenario.  In that sense, we are both handcuffed and it will only come down to who negotiates better.  Jimmy G was drafted in the 2nd round, balled out IN THE NFL, and in one of the rare occurrences we've ever seen-- The Niners fleeced the Pats for a future franchise Qb and only had to give up a 2nd rounder.  (The caveat here being:   Niners had to trade the pick and also sign a mega-contract.)

 

Rosen is not a "win-the-SB right now" next season (Jimmy G is IMO) so giving up a #15 would be hilariously-perfectly-aligned with the desperate losers we have in our FO.  However, Rosen for a 2nd and possibly additional picks is a win-win for both organizations.  They have as many holes on their roster as we do + new coaches love having draft picks.

 

One last note on Rosen and why I would be totally stoked if the right trade took place.... I watched this 7min YouTube highlight video of him in AZ last year and kept noticing the same thing:  Mostly ALL of his insanely great TD passes/large-chunk plays were happening when games were super close in the 4th quarter in the later half of the season.  After Week 10, Cards kept it close (upset Packers/Seahawks) and with exception to Falcons game, played solid football.  

 

Final Thought:  There's a good chance Rosen would get drafted #1 over Murray/Haskins in the 2019 draft, so while I don't necessarily endorse handing over our #15 pick- there is no one on this planet who could convince me it's a worse option than Daniel Jones or Drew Lock.

[bakedtater1]

9 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

If that's dumb I don't know what smart is. Getting a top ten player in last year's draft that will play for free this year. All for pick 15. That's not dumb. We would have the position filled and go into the draft with a tighter list. Rosen is no slouch.

No way...I'd much rather go with a turd from college to polish with the 15th pick.

[bakedtater1]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

He was the #1 QB Recruit in the loaded '14 class. He was generally regarded throughout his college career as a lock to be an NFL starter at the next level w/all the tools. Mental make up is an issue, he comes across as a less interesting Trevor Bauer, basically tone deaf, and entitled and elitist and hyperconfident in his abilities. 

 

Personally, if I can get a Josh Rosen, who typically would go #1 overall in nearly all the NFL drafts since 2011, I'd happily trade our first for him, it's a minuscule price to pay for a guy with talent and tools. QB prospects w/his evals tend to hit at about a 45/55 to 60/40 rate, and he is significantly more talented then any of the QB's in the current class (technically Murray is also exciting, but he has certain issues including height which are quite frightening). My one major  concern is nothing like that of most you: essentially we will have lost half of his rookie contract w/one season where we didn't own his rights and one where we had no chance of achieving anything worth a damn either, the whole point of rookie QB's on cheap rookie deals is to take advantage of the cheapness to contend as quickly as possible while he's still cheap, but we aren't contending for squat Rosen or not, so we'll have already seen 2 years of his cheap rookie deal fly by w/zilch to show for it. Is that what we want, or would it be better to tank for 2020, while spending the '19/'20 offseason trying to give that 2020 QB prospect the talent he needs to be successful entering year 2 and 3 of his rookie deal (2021, 2022)? To me, things are so bad here that we should really be working to tank, and set the table for a rookie QB drafted in '20. Of course we're too stupid to do that, but it's a thought.  

Ya lost me at tanking the season..

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Normally I'd agree w/you, but in this case. What young talent? As much as I loved Doctson the prospect, he's entering year 4 of his rookie deal and is unlikely to be resigned. No other WR on the roster is really worth a damn either other than possible slot option Trey Quinn. We'll just have to eat that contract we gave Richardson. He wasn't worth it, but so be it. He might have some value w/competent QB work, he didn't have it last year. Sprinkle was the wrong TE to draft in '17 as I said at the time, though he's perfectly adequate and a red zone threat, but not anything special, another quality TE class is coming after last year's disappointing group came through, so that could be interesting. Regardless, our offense is basically an injury prone quality OL when healthy, Derrius Guice pre-injury talent, Chris Thompson satellite back extraordinare, and then a disappointing WR corps along with Trey Quinn. What exactly are we evaluating? We don't have any talent on the offensive end that needs evaluating (we know what we have, which is mostly poor at best).

 

Tank for the '20 class unless we can get Rosen somewhat cheaply.

 

I was at the Philly game and watched them get shutout in person.  I cant support a tank and risk seeing multiple games like that.  This "young talent" is same question I have, we keep hoping for best case scenario and get worst case scenario instead. 

 

Either way, we cant 4th preseason our way through the regular season and expect anything good to come of it, the picks wont be worth the further erosion of the fan base. Make or break offseason, I'm not in last chance mode but I know plenty that are.

[Renegade7]

7 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Who cares what Rosen’s favorite movie is 😂 

 

sorry, no offense i just think it’s silly how that’s part of his combine day weaknesses  like it goes into how good or bad of a QB he is

 

I'd want to know if it was Gigli or Pluto Nash, they'd be immediately suspect : )

[bakedtater1]

I went grocery shopping yesterday and I was wearing my Alex Smith jersey i love so much..and the new bad ass hoodie ma got me for Christmas and my awesome white httr hat my dad gave me, and some guy says "not much of a Redskins fan huh?"..we chuckled...he than tells me he's from that area originally..told me about posters of Chris hamburg that were in Happy meals at McDonald's..than he said he moved out here in the 70's and become a Seahawks fan when they started there franchise...says he still trys to watch a skins game if it's on tv...**** getting so bad even the fans of the glory years are.to affraid to admit to being a fan.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I was at the Philly game and watched them get shutout in person.  I cant support a tank and risk seeing multiple games like that.  This "young talent" is same question I have, we keep hoping for best case scenario and get worst case scenario instead. 

 

Either way, we cant 4th preseason our way through the regular season and expect anything good to come of it, the picks wont be worth the further erosion of the fan base. Make or break offseason, I'm not in last chance mode but I know plenty that are.

 

I see things the same way.  It's a weird situation for me to be as a fan.  I can care less about a splash.  I can also care less if they have a bad season if the upside to that is Bruce is gone and we have a shot at Tua and the 2020 draft class.   But I don't enjoy watching the erosion of fans.  And IMO the erosion is mostly about the combination of Bruce-Dan at the top + no hope that they can figure things out beyond just mediocrity + as Sheehan likes to say Cerrato stunk too but at least there was some fun with the franchise.  Boredom + mediocrity + with an unlikeable FO = bad news for this team. 

 

So they have to at least win to keep people in the fold and be a little interesting as to being spoken about nationally.   Right now this team is mega yawn nationally.  Heck I recall Good-morning football made a joke about it once last season about how much attention certain teams get versus others so then one guy goes hey do you want us to talk Redskins and Titans -- implying that their ratings would go down the tubes if they did.