2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You have to make yourself clear on Grier though are you in or are you out?  😀

 

 

 

 

Another mock below just out.  Oliver drops to 14.  Three QBs in the top 4. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would rather have Murphy, Baker or Greedy at that spot than Burns. I have a 2nd/3rd grade on Burns. He should have gone back to school IMO.

 

Edit: And if they were to go edge there I would take Ferrell instead. I have a 1/2 grade on him. He isnt as fast as Burns. But his bend is incredible and he is plenty fast for the edge.

[skinny21]

10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I would rather have Murphy, Baker or Greedy at that spot than Burns. I have a 2nd/3rd grade on Burns. He should have gone back to school IMO.

I have to agree.  You’re taking him because of potential.  With that in mind, I could see a late 1st because of the combo of the need to develop and the 5th year option.  Going back to school, getting stronger and improving his run D was probably the smart move.  I like Winovich more, personally.  I think you could trust him to play every down from the get go.  

 

Williams vs Murphy is interesting.  Run D is a big difference, though ironically, taking the guy that is more physical in the ground game might mean you’re taking the guy who’s more at risk of injury.  I think I like Murphy more for us... unless we trade Norman.  Then I think it’s a toss up for me.  

Edit: I can’t comment on Baker - have barely watched him since I’ve assumed he was out of our range for the get go.  

[Skins Skeptic]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

No team is gonna trade for Carr considering he's basically a lock to be cut after next season. I mean his dead cap number will be 5 mil

 

I think you're right, but it's because his base salary is *gulp* $19.9m in 2019. Crazy expensive.

[SemperFi Skins]

[Skinsinparadise]

2020 Draft thread, sneak preview, I want Tua if we don't get a QB this time or an Alabama WR 😀

 

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

It's hard for me to imagine us taking a WR high in the draft and that player ever becoming a good player, I'm definitely not okay with us taking a young WR and him developing chemistry for a year under a QB who will not be starting the next. That's killing a year of development almost. I hope they go OL or somewhere on D seems to be safer options for us based on past drafting. 

[OVCChairman]

15 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

It's hard for me to imagine us taking a WR high in the draft and that player ever becoming a good player, I'm definitely not okay with us taking a young WR and him developing chemistry for a year under a QB who will not be starting the next. That's killing a year of development almost. I hope they go OL or somewhere on D seems to be safer options for us based on past drafting. 

 

 

But why let past drafts influence this one?  It's not the same pool of players entering the draft year in and year out.  A WR in this draft may be much better suited to be successful here... I don't think we can say "Josh Doctson was not a good pick in the 1st round, therefore no WR we draft will ever work out."  I'm sorry but I can't accept that argument against taking a WR  in the 1st round.  If a WR is the best player available, we need to take him.  We're severely lacking regarding speed, especially on the outside... and a dynamic WR can change an offense.  

 

I understand that we haven't exactly had a track record of drafting WRs in the 1st round, but we also haven't exactly done it with any sort of frequency.... and even Doctson was picked during the Scot era.   We've also had a pretty lousy history of drafting QBs as well if you wanna look at the numbers.   Does that mean we shouldn't take a QB in the 1st ever again? 

 

 

Sorry, not ranting directly at you as I know your point was more about the fact that our situation is not the most conducive to the development of a WR right now, knowing the potential changes at QB, OC, HC, and likely a positional coach overhaul.   I was more speaking to your final sentence.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Die Hard]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I’m pretty certain that’s what is said every year. 🙂

[RabidFan]

247Sports has a mock draft where we trade down 2 spots with Cle so they can take Ed Oliver.  Here is our write up at #17:

 

TRADE!

The Washington Redskins will land veteran quarterback Andy Dalton in a trade after the Bengals acquire Josh Rosen. Dalton has a history with Redskins head coach Jay Gruden. With the No. 17 overall selection, acquired from the Browns, the Redskins select LSU cornerback Greedy Williams. A year ago, they selected running back Derrius Guice in the second round. They land his teammate in 2019.

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/LongFormArticle/Wild-West-Style-NFL-Mock-Draft-with-Trades-129695204#1152548_8

 

craziest one I've seen so far.

 

 

[skins2victory]

Now that we have Colt and Keenum battling it out for the starting gig this year. Time to draft our future starter in the late rounds. Gardner Minshew! The opposition will learn to fear the porn stash!!!

 

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Well I mean if we are going to cherry pick bad plays, anyone can look bad. The 3rd and 2 play had no shot of working. The hot read had two eyes on the route. On the 3rd and 4, the Center was obliterated and Grier clearly did not have his feet set in a way that would provide a dump off option. I wouldnt put that completely on him there. The other plays, were poor reads or decision making his Will's part. There is definitely room for improvement. We are talking about 2nd tier QB options here, not a top 10 pick, and I dont think anyone other than Kyler is really deserving of that distinction this year.

 

Ive seen comps that had Will as a cross between Andy Dalton and Matt Moore. Both of those possibilities would be great. Moore was a fantastic backup for many years. Dalton had the misfortune of playing under Marvin, and in a division with Baltimore and Pittsburgh, but overall hes been pretty damn good. I think hes somewhere in between. Worst case scenario with Will is that he is not a starter in this league, but is a terrific backup qb that can fill and has the confidence to come in at anytime, and more often than not makes good decisions with the football. I think next year's class of QB's are much better and would absolutely sell the farm to get Tua in DC.

 

The 3rd and 2 play he could have walked for the first down or had some anticipation.. but, you cherry pick, predictably. The 3rd and 4 play, eludes you entirely. That play is as grotesque a display at the position as is plausible. Yes, the blitz up the middle, resulted in pressure up the middle. Teams do something called preparation, the first down is Gifted to Grier, yet you ignore that and reference the easy swing to a RB he could have made if he wasn’t locked up mentally. Grier knows where his RB is, the blitz is right up the middle, he put his feet where he did because he processes too slowly. The RB, you mention, the first grade read, for a simple first down, 5 yards in front of his face, you ignore. Jesus. 

 

No one is cherry picking anything, I’m telling you, as clearly as is humanly possible, why he doesn’t have any chance in heck of being an decent NFL quarterback. I have 100 more plays, these aren’t just a few, these are from one game, these are not bad throws, these are reads, processing, and arm strength .. you aren’t going to improve any of those things in the NFL. He was a 23 year old sr who couldn’t make middle school reads. 

 

Embrace whatever it is you must, I can’t explain that 2 + 2 isn’t 8,704.6 any more. People defend him without anything but a metric ton of nonsense, I show you what makes him an atrocious prospect and you find a ...running back.. he didn’t put himself in position to throw to...? Incredible. 

 

Serenity now.

 

I invested some time, it’s amazing to see what people come up with. Truly, remarkable.

 

🤝

 

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

It's hard for me to imagine us taking a WR high in the draft and that player ever becoming a good player, I'm definitely not okay with us taking a young WR and him developing chemistry for a year under a QB who will not be starting the next. That's killing a year of development almost. I hope they go OL or somewhere on D seems to be safer options for us based on past drafting. 

Well, the flip side of this is that a high draft pick at receiver gives that player a year to learn the system (of course, if the system changes, well...), to get further coaching on route running, blocking and nuances of the position. This could give them a better chance to succeed with a new qb the next year. 

 

If he’s still there, I could see Samuel our pick in the 2nd.  Brings the speed element we’ve lacked, is polished and physical - something Jay seemed to really stress... the run blocking aspect.  

[CommandB11]

This is just my opinion :

 

 

Of the qbs available in this draft, i see only Murray and Haskins with a chance to be sucessful starting qbs.

 

Lock and Jones i think could be good backups. 

 

I do not say any of the rest being in the league for any significant amount of time.

 

All that said, i would not spend a first round pick on anyone who isnt one of Murray or Haskins.

 

Again, this is all my opinion from the film i have been able to watch.

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

But why let past drafts influence this one?  It's not the same pool of players entering the draft year in and year out.  A WR in this draft may be much better suited to be successful here... I don't think we can say "Josh Doctson was not a good pick in the 1st round, therefore no WR we draft will ever work out."  I'm sorry but I can't accept that argument against taking a WR  in the 1st round.  If a WR is the best player available, we need to take him.  We're severely lacking regarding speed, especially on the outside... and a dynamic WR can change an offense.  

 

I understand that we haven't exactly had a track record of drafting WRs in the 1st round, but we also haven't exactly done it with any sort of frequency.... and even Doctson was picked during the Scot era.   We've also had a pretty lousy history of drafting QBs as well if you wanna look at the numbers.   Does that mean we shouldn't take a QB in the 1st ever again? 

 

 

Sorry, not ranting directly at you as I know your point was more about the fact that our situation is not the most conducive to the development of a WR right now, knowing the potential changes at QB, OC, HC, and likely a positional coach overhaul.   I was more speaking to your final sentence.  

 

I'm not saying there is a zero percent chance a WR wouldnt succeed here. I'm saying based on what we've done and how we've developed our WRs that it decreases the chance of a successful draft pick at that position, in my opinion. I think its fair of me to say that, I understand if you disagree, I think it makes the discussion more interesting and brings more depth to it as well. 

[Skins199021]

This QB class is awful, Drew Lock Sucks as does Stidham on Auburn.

 

I've watched SC play Missouri enough to know Lock sucks. Literally getting a worse version of Blaine Gabbert out of that school.

 

I'd take a flier of Rypien on Day these since he has a mix of intrigue and name with us.

[volsmet]

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Volsmet, I can't believe you wasted those precious moments of my life with that Wren video. I could only watch half. I don't know if I've ever seen anything so boring. He was completely invisible. If he wasn't highlighted before every play, you would have no idea that you were watching tape of a DL prospect. Didn't stand out from the other members of the DL at all. No splash plays. Nothing impressive. 

 

I really like Taylor Rapp. Washington had a really great secondary between Rapp and Murphy. Rapp seems smart and fast and versatile. I think he'll make a great pro. Seems like a NE type player. We should start drafting some of those. 

Is there a reason that Nasir Adderly didn't participate in any testing?

 

Agreed. I posted that it wasn’t worth watching for those reasons, just worthless.

 

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

NFL.com has Abram and Byron Murphy as two of its combine winners. I love both players. As I said before, I wish we could get both. 

 

Byron Murphy, CB, Washington: The Washington star didn't post an impressive 40 time (4.55), but he might've exhibited the best footwork and technique of any defensive back in the building. Murphy is smooth and fluid as a turner, and looks like an MLB center fielder in action. With Murphy impressing scouts and coaches with his football IQ in meetings, the playmaking corner could remain a Day 1 prospect despite his times.

 

Johnathan Abram, S, Mississippi State: The top safety prospect in the class made a strong statement about his No. 1 status with a solid workout in Indy. Abram posted a 4.45-second 40 and knocked out 16 reps on the bench press. He also flashed decent movement skills and impressed in interviews. Considering his A+ game tape and solid reputation as a leader, it's easy to project Abram as a Day 1 starter.

 

I don't mean this as an insult. Abram reminds me a little of pre-steroids Laron Landry, but not quite as fast. He's not going to be a center fielder, but can cover some and will be a sideline to sideline nightmare. 

 

Abram is the top S prospect now? Interesting, that wasn’t the case a week ago.

 

Murphy’s SPARQ was less than what was anticipated, but he’s a sharp kid, obviously well respected on the field, though I’ve never seen him.

13 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Chris Simm's  on PFT this morning ranked his top draft QB -

 

Murray

Lock

Haskins

Finley

Stidham

Jones

Thorson

Grier

 

Lock went from above Haskins nowhere to everywhere. Interesting. 

[volsmet]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You have to make yourself clear on Grier though are you in or are you out?  😀

 

 

 

 

Another mock below just out.  Oliver drops to 14.  Three QBs in the top 4. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions are meaningless, but so is evidence, evidently. I entertained the idea that I was missing something through game after game, but the actual football is dismissed with regularity for banalities. 

 

That’s fine, but if the conversations have no actual evidence, and evidence presented is dismissed entirely, then all we have are guys who want to believe something is true, the facts are meaningless... which means the football is meaningless. 

 

Grier is the worst QB prospect in the draft. I can explain why, but people back away from discussion and respond with feelings rather than football. I’ll always make money on this, I enjoy the discussion, but when evidence is ignored, it’s baffling. 

 

🤝

[HigSkin]

Hmmm, wonder who they are scouting...

 

 

[RWJ]

32 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Hmmm, wonder who they are scouting...

 

 

NIU - Sutton Smtih, Kansas St. OG Dalton Risner, 

[Rufus T Firefly]

35 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Opinions are meaningless,

I disagree.

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I disagree.

 

That’s deep.

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

No one has Patterson in round 1 next year, that’s adorable. At least he’s in good company on this list.

 

 

Quote

 

Ranking 2019 & 2020 combined

So If I had to rank the 20 quarterbacks mentioned, which year looks better? The numbers in parentheses are points for their ranking.

1. Justin Herbert (30)

2. Dwayne Haskins (27)

3. Drew Lock (24)

4. Kyler Murray (21)

5. Tua Tagovailoa (19)

6. Jake Fromm (17)

7. Daniel Jones (15)

8. Brett Rypien (13)

9. K.J. Costello (11)

10. Eric Dungey (9)

11. Nate Stanley (7)

12. Jacob Eason (6)

13. Ryan Finley (5)

14. Jarrett Stidham (4)

15. Steven Montez (3)

16. Jordan Ta'amu (2)

17. Jake Bentley (1)

18. Brian Lewerke (1)

19. Shea Patterson (1)

20. Will Grier (1)

Granted these are my rankings, but the takeaway should be that 2020 just isn’t as good as advertised. Some big numbers, or good team records, or even a few big throws, are leading to some overrating of the 2020 class.

 

 

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Answering-whether-2020-quarterback-class-better-than-2019-129740426/

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Opinions are meaningless, but so is evidence, evidently. I entertained the idea that I was missing something through game after game, but the actual football is dismissed with regularity for banalities. 

 

That’s fine, but if the conversations have no actual evidence, and evidence presented is dismissed entirely, then all we have are guys who want to believe something is true, the facts are meaningless... which means the football is meaningless. 

 

Grier is the worst QB prospect in the draft. I can explain why, but people back away from discussion and respond with feelings rather than football. I’ll always make money on this, I enjoy the discussion, but when evidence is ignored, it’s baffling. 

 

🤝

 

I was just having some fun with you. 😀  Like I was saying weeks back I thought I was the most passionate here as to slamming a player which in my case it was Daniel Jones but you got my beat on Will Grier.  If you read my posts, Grier isn't my guy.  But I am not anti-Grier either.  There are some real big Grier people here.  I am not among them but I am ok with him at the same time.   To me he's just as good of a flier as any of the other 2nd-4th rounders.  All of whom who are unlikely to be bonafide QBs.  If they are taking a flier as I've said before I am an easy sell among the next tier.  In that crop, I am ok with Finley, Grier, Rypien, Stiham -- heck even the guy I've been killing Daniel Jones if he's in the 2nd what the heck?  Heck I am even ok if they go later than the 2nd-3rd range and go for Ta'amu in the 5th range.

[OVCChairman]

8 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

I'm not saying there is a zero percent chance a WR wouldnt succeed here. I'm saying based on what we've done and how we've developed our WRs that it decreases the chance of a successful draft pick at that position, in my opinion. I think its fair of me to say that, I understand if you disagree, I think it makes the discussion more interesting and brings more depth to it as well. 

 

I'd actually argue the opposite.  This team has actually done a decent job lately with WRs that actually had TALENT.  The problem is we have very little of it.  Garcon and Jackson had a couple very good seasons here.  Enough that their market value outweighed their playing value.  Crowder likely to get PAAIID this offseason as well.  Looking at all the WRs that we've moved on from, they haven't gone elsewhere and had more, or even equal success as they've had wearing our helmet.   I can't think of a single WR that under achieved here.... Doctson and Crowder could counter that but thats yet to be determined.  In recent history, Ryan Grant is one of the only WRs that we've drafted, that's actually gone on to get signed elsewhere, and he's just a JAG.

 

No, we havent had a great 'developmental' record with WRs, but lets be honest, what have we had to develop? 

In 2011 we took 3 WRs.  Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul (converted to TE), Aldrick Robinson.  Since then we've drafted 

 

2014 - 5th Round - Ryan Grant

 

2015 - 4th Round - Jamison Crowder 

2015 - 6th Round - Evan Spencer

 

 

2016 - 1st Round - Josh Doctson

 

2017 - 6th Round - Robert Davis

 

2018 - 7th Round - Tre Quinn

 

 

VERY little top of the draft investment there which is generally where the top of the talent pool lies.  I admit that you can absolutely FIND good WRs up and down the draft, but there has not been some influx of early round talent that has been failed at development.   Part of that is likely because of the window we had with Garcon and Jackson, so we likely wanted to spend high end draft capital elsewhere, but we need that talent again.  Part of it also is the emphasis of using the TE in Grudens system, and when you have TEs that are suited to play outside, it minimizes the 'need' for the WR because Reed and Davis can split out.... that said, we're predictable.  Take away the middle of the field and you take away Jays offense.  If Reed goes outside, you slide a safety over and double him... let him catch the ball, just dont give him space.  

 

 

It appears Doctson was overdrafted.  I think he can be a contributing WR in the NFL, just don't think he was worth the pick we used.... other than that, who have we actually swung and missed on?