2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Anselmheifer]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't watched them all to dissect that.  But I'd say its not hard to see that the typical draft geek type-site, etc have tier 1 as:  Allen, Bosa, Ferrell, Sweat, Burns, Polite and then a drop off to tier 2.   Polite now in tier 2 post combine. Some think Burns has top 5 type talent.  I haven't dived into watching enough to land on an opinion.  I'll just say among the mock draft types they'd see Burns as a good pick.  I agree that they prefer more well rounded OLBs and I have said so on this thread a bunch of times.  But if Ferrell is gone it wouldn't shock me if its Burns.

 

Burns has bulked up to 250 plus.  Cooley among others like to say the problem with the pass rush is there is no speed rusher in that mix.  Polian once explained in his mind why the Redskins even though have a good D line are still vulnerable on 3rd down including 3rd and long -- his take is on obvious passing downs, that's when the speed rusher is the most needed and more dangerous because you can line them up wide and just have them run past the tackle without worrying about holding that gap to stop the run.  

Regarding Murphy vs. McLaurin, every CB is going to get beat. Rumor was that Murphy was one of the guys to really hold up in terms of the advanced analytics stuff. He's also very physical and had the best field workout of any of the CB's at the combine this year. I'm not sure that is saying very much, because the CB's don't look awesome. 

 

I totally agree with you and Polian and Cooley on the need for a real speed rusher. This team, with Smith, was coached like it's 1940's. Sure, it is nice to stop the run and run the football. But, it's a passing league. You HAVE to be able to score in chunks, win with your passing game, rush the passer and play well in the secondary. We should be focused on improving our explosiveness on offense and defense. If teams actually had to score against us, we could pin our ears back rush the passe not be afraid of drafting a true speed rusher. 

 

And, Burns' 10 yard split was sick. He also plays way faster than sweat. It's funny how a good workout can elevate someone's stock. Sweat doesn't play like he runs a 4.4. He's so stiff. I think someone is going to be getting Jadaveon Clowney, which is fine, Jadaveon is a fine player. Just not a bend the edge and destroy the QB type player. 

Re: that mock, I think Butler is currently a better player than Metcalf. It would be a huge break to have someone like Metcalf drop to our pick. 

[rumplestilskin]

Clowney is Elite. He destroys. He lines up everywhere, is relevant on every down and he gets home fast. If Sweat is headed in that mold sign him up. He is so much more than a fine player.

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Regarding Murphy vs. McLaurin, every CB is going to get beat. Rumor was that Murphy was one of the guys to really hold up in terms of the advanced analytics stuff. He's also very physical and had the best field workout of any of the CB's at the combine this year. I'm not sure that is saying very much, because the CB's don't look awesome. 

 

 

From my eyes it didn't look like McLaurin and him were up against each other much.  But I could be wrong it was really hard to see.  That's the tough thing for me at least to see on the games posted on You Tube and his case I found Ohio State and Utah so far.  Wish they had coaches tape for college the way they do for the NFL.   Parris Campbell sliced their defense pretty good in that game with a lot of underneath throws.  I saw another game like that weeks back forgetting which one where Campbell did the same to an opponent.  Campbell is sort of the uncool guy to like with most of the draft geek types because he isn't a polished route runner and for a guy with speed he's oddly not a go route-deep threat type.  But geez i think some smart team can utilize him -- slants, shallow crosses, screens, sweeps, handoffs, etc.  

 

I'll see if I can find something that gives me a closer look at Murphy.  I haven't really pushed hard on prospects I don't think they are going to take.  And i could be wrong on this but am thinking QB or pass rusher at 15. Or maybe LG.   Maybe corner later in the draft.   Last year their intentions were pretty well telegraphed.  Will see if it happens that way again. 

 

Keim has been really hitting hard of late they are scoping these receivers hard and badly want a play maker at that position.

 

This is clearly good below.  And I'll say on defense corner IMO is the next most important position aside from the D line.  

 

.  

 

Back to Campbell was watching just now Devin Bush versus Ohio State, talk about YAC from Campbell

 

 

[skinny21]

Roughly speaking, it seems to me we...

Need a starter at:  LG, and strong safety

Competition for:  edge, ILB, FS, X receiver and slot receiver

Could really use depth/potential future starters at:  TE, corner (especially in the slot), Z receiver, qb and running back.  

 

I’m not writing off tackle, C and dline either, and we could really use oline depth in general.  

 

I haven’t really watched oline prospects, so I wonder... can we (realistically) find a starter with our 2nd or later?

 

[Warhead36]

DK Metcalf is going to be a colossal bust. We better stay away from him.

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

From my eyes it didn't look like McLaurin and him were up against each other much.  But I could be wrong it was really hard to see.  That's the tough thing for me at least to see on the games posted on You Tube and his case I found Ohio State and Utah so far.  Wish they had coaches tape for college the way they do for the NFL.   Parris Campbell sliced their defense pretty good in that game with a lot of underneath throws.  I saw another game like that weeks back forgetting which one where Campbell did the same to an opponent.  Campbell is sort of the uncool guy to like with most of the draft geek types because he isn't a polished route runner and for a guy with speed he's oddly not a go route-deep threat type.  But geez i think some smart team can utilize him -- slants, shallow crosses, screens, sweeps, handoffs, etc.  

 

I'll see if I can find something that gives me a closer look at Murphy.  I haven't really pushed hard on prospects I don't think they are going to take.  And i could be wrong on this but am thinking QB or pass rusher at 15. Or maybe LG.   Maybe corner later in the draft.   Last year their intentions were pretty well telegraphed.  Will see if it happens that way again. 

 

Keim has been really hitting hard of late they are scoping these receivers hard and badly want a play maker at that position.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree about telegraphing interest. They clearly want a WR and QB. I don't think any QB's are going to be available at 15 that should be drafted that high. They are either moving up for one, trading for Rosen, or grabbing one later. I'm assuming therefore that it won't be a QB at 15. 

You mentioned Paris Campbell, and he is intriguing. He is IMHO, a healthy man's Chris Thompson in the passing game, but with elite top end speed. You aren't going to be able to use him out of the backfield with regularity however. He only had 9 rushing attempts this year. I think yo are probably going to get what you got from Campbell in college. A bunch of short catches, some of which he turns into long gainers. His YPC this year was a pedestrian 11.8. I don't know if he's worth a first rounder. I think he falls some. Especially with so many great WR's available. 

 

 I still think there is a chance that DK Metcalf falls to 15. I love Butler, Deebo, and Andy Isabella. Butler is going to be a QB's best friend. He's mike Evans. Deebo is instant separation. Isabella is going to give tremendous production out of the slot, but also has the speed to take any ball to the house. People are really sleeping on Isabella. He's an elite track athlete, but his speed transfers to the field and he has 3 years of tremendous production. He's every inch as fast as Parris Campbell, but  averaged a far superior 16.6 YPC this year. I was just about to rave about his performance against Georgia. Then I watched it. Almost all of his yards were in garbage time, with Georgia way up on UMass. Not sure what to make of that tape. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andy-isabella-1.html

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/andy-isabella?id=32194953-4156-2722-bf26-62181351a224

 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, rumplestilskin said:

Clowney is Elite. He destroys. He lines up everywhere, is relevant on every down and he gets home fast. If Sweat is headed in that mold sign him up. He is so much more than a fine player.

I love Clowney. I should have said Clowney-light. Some of the same limitations, but not the same upside. No one ever thought Sweat was going to win the Heisman based off his college production. I meant more that Clowney has some of the same negatives. Clowney however is a force against the run, and more than acceptable against the pass. I was hoping we might me able to steal him as a FA, but he was franchised. 

I'd be happy with Sweat at 15. I just don't think he's a top 5 prospect in this draft, or even a top 5 defensive prospect. 

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

DK Metcalf is going to be a colossal bust. We better stay away from him.

Maybe if you expect him to catch 100 balls and lead the league in receiving. He should be able to catch 50 balls a year in his sleep however and is going to be a bear to defend. He will also make calling plays easier because he is going to demand attention over the top and underneath. It will open up the field for other players. 

[Skinsinparadise]

just listened to Craig Hoffman he said he doesn't think they are convinced Lock or Jones could help their win now quest for this season so he doesn't think either is in play for them.  He said they want a blue chipper at #15 who can help them win now.  Will see if that's true.

[Skinsinparadise]

More Hoffman, they want a player at 15 who can hit the ground running.  Again, its a win now year they don't want a guy who takes a year or two to develop.  So I am gathering that rules out receiver at 15.  That's fine with me.  He thinks a pass rusher or a game wrecking MLB like Devin White.  

 

Hoffman was about definitive as it gets about Lock and Jones are out of their plans in the 15 range from what he was told.  And its not because they don't like them but because they don't think they will hit the ground running and think they can find another player in the draft who can hit the ground running and make an instant impact.    Either that or maybe they love those QBs and wanted to plant that info with Hoffman? 😀  The only thing is Hoffman was among the crowd last year who kept saying D line and RB.  And Fitzpatrick, Payne Guice, D. James are among the guys they really love.  So I take Hoffman at least a little seriously. 

 

I recall him, Keim, and to a lesser extent Finlay were pretty close to getting right their intentions before the last draft.    Having said that even if he's correct, those intentions could change.  And playing with that logic, I'd presume FA might influence this some.  If they are in win now mode then I'd presume whatever holes are left post FA will be relevant to their approach in the draft.

 

Hoffman did say they still have an interest for trading for Rosen if he gets on the market.  Finlay keeps hinting that they'd consider trading up for Murray if he is up for grabs.  If so, I am gathering they think they can win now with Murray. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I really want to dig Stidham.  He's my favorite personality among the QBs from what I've seen watching his interviews and also heard about him.  And I am a big arm strength-arm talent guy.  And the dude is accurate, too.   But I just cringed watching him deal with the live bullets coming at him in the pocket -- and combining that with his reputation for not being a gamer and not being clutch -- that makes me pause.    I've said before if you just put the dude in settings where he has no pass rush at him or where he doesn't need to read coverage -- he should look electric.  His arm is borderline special and his accuracy is good all over the field.  So he should be masterful in pro days, senior bowl practices and other settings where he is just throwing the ball and showcasing his arm talent because he has plenty arm talent.  And i bet he's really impressive in his interviews, too.  

 

I wouldn't hate it at all if they took him in the third.  but judging at least on hype -- he seems to be the most hyped 2nd tier Qb right now so I wonder if you'd need to take him in the 2nd.  And not sure I'd love that. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhd24]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

More Hoffman, they want a player at 15 who can hit the ground running.  Again, its a win now year they don't want a guy who takes a year or two to develop.  So I am gathering that rules out receiver at 15.  That's fine with me.  He thinks a pass rusher or a game wrecking MLB like Devin White.  

 

Hoffman was about definitive as it gets about Lock and Jones are out of their plans in the 15 range from what he was told.  And its not because they don't like them but because they don't think they will hit the ground running and think they can find another player in the draft who can hit the ground running and make an instant impact.    Either that or maybe they love those QBs and wanted to plant that info with Hoffman? 😀  The only thing is Hoffman was among the crowd last year who kept saying D line and RB.  And Fitzpatrick, Payne Guice, D. James are among the guys they really love.  So I take Hoffman at least a little seriously. 

 

I recall him, Keim, and to a lesser extent Finlay were pretty close to getting right their intentions before the last draft.    Having said that even if he's correct, those intentions could change.  And playing with that logic, I'd presume FA might influence this some.  If they are in win now mode then I'd presume whatever holes are left post FA will be relevant to their approach in the draft.

 

Hoffman did say they still have an interest for trading for Rosen if he gets on the market.  Finlay keeps hinting that they'd consider trading up for Murray if he is up for grabs.  If so, I am gathering they think they can win now with Murray. 

 

If they want an "impact player", then I'm not sure there is one at 15.  Lets say the following are stone cold locks to not be there at 15:

 

1)  Bosa

2) Q. Williams

3)  Allen

4)  Murray

5)  Haskins

6)  Sweat 

7)  J. Taylor (Bills, Denver, Bucs, Jags, Cinci, Miami, ATL could all take him.  Universally the best Tackle)

 

Realistically, the impact guys at 15 are potentially available are Hockenson (not likely to be there), D. White (ditto), Greedy, Ferrell (maybe), Oliver (do we take 3 DL in the 1st three years in a row), and Burns (maybe).

 

Devin Bush might be in play frankly if we are stuck at 15 with no trade partner.  I'd trade down if I could.

[dyst]

“Win now”, jesus this management is stupid

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

 

If they want an "impact player", then I'm not sure there is one at 15.  Lets say the following are stone cold locks to not be there at 15:

 

1)  Bosa

2) Q. Williams

3)  Allen

4)  Murray

5)  Haskins

6)  Sweat 

7)  J. Taylor (Bills, Denver, Bucs, Jags, Cinci, Miami, ATL could all take him.  Universally the best Tackle)

 

Realistically, the impact guys at 15 are potentially available are Hockenson (not likely to be there), D. White (ditto), Greedy, Ferrell (maybe), Oliver (do we take 3 DL in the 1st three years in a row), and Burns (maybe).

 

Devin Bush might be in play frankly if we are stuck at 15 with no trade partner.  I'd trade down if I could.

 

I like the way you are thinking.  I am trying to do the same which is think what player or positions are easier to hit the ground running with quickly?  Guards usually play well quickly.   You'd think its tempting for them to take one of the guard prospects who can be transitioned to tackle like J. Williams, D. Ford, J. Taylor. 

 

Trying to think of which among these prospects can hit the ground running right away.  I can see Hockenson (my favorite -- and I think there is a chance he's there at 15) hit the ground running.   Burns -- speed rush, I presume doesn't take long to get cooking.  But I just started thinking about this so I'll give it more time.  I am assuming FA might influence this some. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

 

 

Pro Bowl rates among first-round picks, 25-year sample
Pro-Football-Reference.com
Position	Drafted	Pro Bowlers	Pro Bowl rate
S	35	18	51.4%
TE	28	13	46.4%
LB	87	37	42.5%
QB	57	24	42.1%
RB	96	40	41.7%
C	12	5	41.7%
G	32	13	40.6%
CB	91	35	38.5%
OT	84	31	36.9%
DL	170	52	30.6%
WR	99	30	30.3%

As you can see, tight ends and quarterbacks fare much better here, joining safeties and linebackers at the top of the list. This is probably a more reasonable way to break down draft picks at those positions. 

 

Bust rates among first-round picks, 25-year sample
Position	Drafted	Busts	Bust rate
RB	96	45	46.9%
QB	57	23	40.4%
DL	170	60	35.3%
WR	99	30	30.3%
CB	91	24	26.4%
G	32	7	21.9%
LB	87	19	21.8%
TE	28	6	21.4%
OT	84	16	19.0%
S	35	5	14.3%
C	12	1	8.3%

5 minutes ago, dyst said:

“Win now”, jesus this management is stupid

 

Agree with your point.    And maybe Hoffman is wrong.  But all the other guys covering the team have harped about the win now mindset for 2019.  So it is what it is.  What Hoffman said is intuitive and fits a win now mindset -- I didn't think of the first round pick quite like that before but it makes sense that they don't want a prospect who takes some time since that would defeat what they are trying to accomplish.    They can't wait on a player to become the guy in 2020, they want a big season out of them in 2019.  the one good thing I extrapolated from that is its just their mindset for their first round pick.  Sounds like after that its simple BPA.  But Hoffman gave the vibe that at 15 its BPA but in the context of BPA who fits a glaring need and can hit the ground running now. 

[RWJ]

55 minutes ago, dyst said:

“Win now”, jesus this management is stupid

They'd better find a way because if they have a dreadful season I think Allen and Gruden are both gone.

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with your point.    And maybe Hoffman is wrong.  But all the other guys covering the team have harped about the win now mindset for 2019.  So it is what it is.  What Hoffman said is intuitive and fits a win now mindset -- I didn't think of the first round pick quite like that before but it makes sense that they don't want a prospect who takes some time since that would defeat what they are trying to accomplish.    They can't wait on a player to become the guy in 2020, they want a big season out of them in 2019.  the one good thing I extrapolated from that is its just their mindset for their first round pick.  Sounds like after that its simple BPA.  But Hoffman gave the vibe that at 15 its BPA but in the context of BPA who fits a glaring need and can hit the ground running now. 

If the QB that they covet is not there and they can't or don't want to trade the #15 for Rosen then they should think about trading down and get another 2nd rounder.  We have several holes to fill and having 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds would help.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, RWJ said:

They'd better find a way because if they have a dreadful season I think Allen and Gruden are both gone.

If the QB that they covet is not there and they can't or don't want to trade the #15 for Rosen then they should think about trading down and get another 2nd rounder.  We have several holes to fill and having 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds would help.

 

Again who knows if Hoffman is right but I threw out what he said for those who might be interested in case he happens to be right. 

 

What he said doesn't give the vibe that they'd trade down in the first unless they think trading down some would still give them that impact guy they are seeking.

 

Doesn't sound like they'd trade the #15 for Rosen.  but they'd be willing to trade something else for him.  I tweeted to Hoffman and he responded on Murray.  He said they might be interested in trading up for Murray but thinks Arizona takes him. 

 

My biggest takeaway from Hoffman is if the draft is about filling a big need with a guy who can hit the ground running than wouldn't what they do in FA loom large to their approach in the draft?

 

For me to fully buy into what Hoffman said, I'd need to hear it from someone else too -- Finlay, Keim, etc so I'll see if they overlap because the idea of them likely being out on Lock/Jones is a change from what was said before.  What they all overlapped on last time in the draft mostly turned out correct.  Oddly they seemed more right about the draft than they were in FA.  You'd think its easier to figure out FA intentions than the draft.  But it wasn't that way at least last year.

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Again who knows if Hoffman is right but I threw out what he said for those who might be interested in case he happens to be right. 

 

What he said doesn't give the vibe that they'd trade down in the first unless they think trading down some would still give them that impact guy they are seeking.

 

Doesn't sound like they'd trade the #15 for Rosen.  but they'd be willing to trade something else for him.  I tweeted to Hoffman and he responded on Murray.  He said they might be interested in trading up for Murray but thinks Arizona takes him. 

 

My biggest takeaway from Hoffman is if the draft is about filling a big need with a guy who can hit the ground running than wouldn't what they do in FA loom large to their approach in the draft?

 

For me to fully buy into what Hoffman said, I'd need to hear it from someone else too -- Finlay, Keim, etc so I'll see if they overlap because the idea of them likely being out on Lock/Jones is a change from what was said before.  What they all overlapped on last time in the draft mostly turned out correct.  Oddly they seemed more right about the draft than they were in FA.  You'd think its easier to figure out FA intentions than the draft.  But it wasn't that way at least last year.

One would think that after FA is gone on for a month we'd know who the targets are in the draft but not always true.  Who do you think they go for in the 1st, SIP?

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

“Win now”, jesus this management is stupid

 

I think they just have a different definition of what "win now" means. To us fans "win now" means either get to the SB or deep into the playoffs. For this FO "win now" means win enough games so they can keep their jobs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, RWJ said:

One would think that after FA is gone on for a month we'd know who the targets are in the draft but not always true.  Who do you think they go for in the 1st, SIP?

 

Here's who I think are likely going before 15 in no special order:

 

Q. Williams

R. Gary

J. Bosa

J. Allen

M. Sweat

E. Oliver

Haskins

Murray 

Lock

Two O lineman among (J. Taylor, C. Ford, J. Williams)

One CB among G. Williams, B. Murphy

Wildcards -- Hockenson, Metcalf, D. White, D. Jones, C. Ferrell, B Burns

Heck some are saying Noah Fant might go high but I'll keep him out of this.

 

So that's 20 players.   So I don't think they are wrong that an impact player lands at 15.  But that's the problem with picking at 15, you never know because it depends on what happens in front of you.   Last draft, few thought Derwin James would drop to our pick but he did.  Edmonds also went in many mocks before our pick.  The season before it was Jonathan Allen.  So yeah I'd say 100% that there is a player who many here are saying won't drop to 15 who absolutely will.  But its impossible to guess who that player is.

 

If I am guessing now, I'd say one of these guys -- not all of them but one among: Clelin Ferrell, Devin White, E. Oliver lands at 15.   My gut is Hockenson has a good chance to be there, too. 

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think they just have a different definition of what "win now" means. To us fans "win now" means either get to the SB or deep into the playoffs. For this FO "win now" means win enough games so they can keep their jobs. 

 

Bruce answered that question on Doc's show -- to them its all about making the playoffs  Close to him means playoffs. 

 

So I gather if they sneak in as a wild card at 9-7 -- that seems to be the be all and end all to them.

 

Actually the more I think about it what Hoffman said is big time intuitive.    If its a win or people lose their jobs type of season then why should they care about a prospect that might take longer to hit their stride or doesn't fill a major need.  The instant coffee pick would fill a major need and make a major impact ASAP.  As for ruling out prospects, the one that hits me right away is Metcalf.  You'd figure they'd be out on him.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Here's who I think are likely going before 15 in no special order:

 

Q. Williams

R. Gary

J. Bosa

J. Allen

M. Sweat

E. Oliver

Haskins

Murray 

Lock

Two O lineman among (J. Taylor, C. Ford, J. Williams)

One CB among G. Williams, B. Murphy

Wildcards -- Hockenson, Metcalf, D. White, D. Jones, C. Ferrell, B Burns

Heck some are saying Noah Fant might go high but I'll keep him out.

 

So that's 20 players.   So I don't think they are wrong that an impact player lands at 15.  But that's the problem with picking at 15, you never know because it depends on what happens in front of you.   Last draft, few thought Derwin James would drop to our pick but he did.  Edmonds also went in many mocks before our pick.  The season before it was Jonathan Allen.  So yeah I'd say 100% that there is a player who many here are saying won't drop to 15 who absolutely will.  But its impossible to guess who that player is.

 

If I am guessing now, I'd say one of these guys: Clelin Ferrell, Devin White, E. Oliver lands at 15.   My gut is Hockenson is there, too. 

 

 

'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see White and Hockenson.  Off to another player I really like from NIU, Sutton Smith EDGE.  Have you watched tape on him?  I think he goes somewhere in the 4th/5th round.  I love the guy.  He has a quick burst.  He caught my eye at the Combine.  

[skinny21]

I think it makes perfect sense (from their standpoint) that they’d take a guy that can make an immediate impact.  I could also see maybe certain guys - Doug, etc. - liked the qbs - but the FO has since talked about Lock, Jones, etc. not helping them this year and needing someone who will.  Also makes sense that they believe Murray would fit this aim/mentality - RGIII, Lamar Jackson, Watson all had instant success.  

 

With this “new” info in mind, I’d look at the guards available at 15 (Ford, Taylor, Williams), the more rounded edge guys (probably just Ferrell), and White.  Corner’s possible, but I’m not sure that’s as much of a need in their eyes.  

I think their preference might be to trade back though.  They could target someone for LG later in the 1st (Lindstrom, Risner), Abram at SS, Bush, perhaps Winovich, or a corner, and add a pick or two.  

 

This is also makes me think they’ll be targeting a polished receiver that can also block in the 2nd/3rd.  

 

 

Edit - @RWJ I like Smith.  Like you said, he’s got really nice burst.  My main concern is his size, but he looks like he can fill out a bit more.  I wonder if he fits better as a Sam.  

 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I think it makes perfect sense (from their standpoint) that they’d take a guy that can make an immediate impact.  I could also see maybe certain guys - Doug, etc. - liked the qbs - but the FO has since talked about Lock, Jones, etc. not helping them this year and needing someone who will.  Also makes sense that they believe Murray would fit this aim/mentality - RGIII, Lamar Jackson, Watson all had instant success.  

 

With this “new” info in mind, I’d look at the guards available at 15 (Ford, Taylor, Williams), the more rounded edge guys (probably just Ferrell), and White.  Corner’s possible, but I’m not sure that’s as much of a need in their eyes.  

I think their preference might be to trade back though.  They could target someone for LG later in the 1st (Lindstrom, Risner), Abram at SS, Bush, perhaps Winovich, or a corner, and add a pick or two.  

 

This is also makes me think they’ll be targeting a polished receiver that can also block in the 2nd/3rd.  

 

 

If not for a QB, then I think they should do this too, S21.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I think it makes perfect sense (from their standpoint) that they’d take a guy that can make an immediate impact.  I could also see maybe certain guys - Doug, etc. - liked the qbs - but the FO has since talked about Lock, Jones, etc. not helping them this year and needing someone who will.  Also makes sense that they believe Murray would fit this aim/mentality - RGIII, Lamar Jackson, Watson all had instant success.  

 

With this “new” info in mind, I’d look at the guards available at 15 (Ford, Taylor, Williams), the more rounded edge guys (probably just Ferrell), and White.  Corner’s possible, but I’m not sure that’s as much of a need in their eyes.  

I think their preference might be to trade back though.  They could target someone for LG later in the 1st (Lindstrom, Risner), Abram at SS, Bush, perhaps Winovich, or a corner, and add a pick or two.  

 

This is also makes me think they’ll be targeting a polished receiver that can also block in the 2nd/3rd.  

 

 

Edit - @RWJ I like Smith.  Like you said, he’s got really nice burst.  My main concern is his size, but he looks like he can fill out a bit more.  I wonder if he fits better as a Sam.  

 

That's a big question but his playing IQ and quickness and blue collar type of play I think makes him a very good player in the NFL.  I am excited to watch him and I have him on my NFL draft wish list.  

[SkinsRx]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Doesn't sound like they'd trade the #15 for Rosen.  but they'd be willing to trade something else for him.  I tweeted to Hoffman and he responded on Murray.  He said they might be interested in trading up for Murray but thinks Arizona takes him.

 

I read somewhere that Kingsbury was Keenum's position coach in college, so I think Keenum plus a 3rd or 4th for Rosen makes a lot of sense for both teams.  I don't think Rosen would be too happy sitting behind Murray next season being a 1st round pick himself.  By replacing Rosen with Keenum, you get a veteran to help Murray transition to the pros and avoid a possible distraction of having 2 young competitive QBs on the same team.  Kinda like when RG3 and Kirk were drafted in the same year.  And if this was the true intent for trading for Keenum, I gotta give credit because that's probably one of the smarter decisions I've seen this FO make.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I think it makes perfect sense (from their standpoint) that they’d take a guy that can make an immediate impact.  I could also see maybe certain guys - Doug, etc. - liked the qbs - but the FO has since talked about Lock, Jones, etc. not helping them this year and needing someone who will.  Also makes sense that they believe Murray would fit this aim/mentality - RGIII, Lamar Jackson, Watson all had instant success.  

 

With this “new” info in mind, I’d look at the guards available at 15 (Ford, Taylor, Williams), the more rounded edge guys (probably just Ferrell), and White.  Corner’s possible, but I’m not sure that’s as much of a need in their eyes.  

I think their preference might be to trade back though.  They could target someone for LG later in the 1st (Lindstrom, Risner), Abram at SS, Bush, perhaps Winovich, or a corner, and add a pick or two.  

 

This is also makes me think they’ll be targeting a polished receiver that can also block in the 2nd/3rd.  

 

 

 

Combining all narratives so far as what I'v encoded

 

The hot narrative for the first rounder is pass rusher.  Some say QB but like I said Hoffman doesn't think so unless its Murray

Keim is swearing they want a WR bad either the draft or FA.  I gather if its the draft it won't be in the first

Young QB is happening but could go down in any round

They love Kyler Murray

Of the next tier they like Stidham

They love Marquise Brown but Hoffman isn't as sure now that he's coming off the injury

Finlay says he knows they like Noah Fant and Chris Windstorm.

They want playmakers with speed

They want safeties and we know they likely kicked the tires on Weddle.  Finlay thinks they like Honey Badger and might like L. Collins

Keim is saying they like Cole Beasley

Hearing mixed things about whether they are letting Norman go.  Most saying no but recently some saying yes

If Rosen is on the trading block they are interested but not for a first

The weird thing is there is never any mention of Haskins relating to the Redskins so far.  Is that on purpose or are they trying to throw people off that scent?

 

 

It's tough for me to piece together a pattern.   My best shot at it is:

 

They indeed want speed.  Fant is the fastest high end TE and Marquise is likely the fastest WR

Heck even Murray brings his own set of speed

Safety might be dealt with in FA?

WR both FA and the draft?

They will take a QB later in the draft if its Stidham they might have to use their 2nd?  So a 2nd for Stidham or Rosen if he becomes available?

Pass rusher probably happens in the draft because they are expensive in FA. 

 

 

 

 

 

[skinny21]

12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If not for a QB, then I think they should do this too, S21.

I wonder about how difficult it will be to trade back - I’ve been saying for a while now that I love some of the depth/talent likely available in the 2nd-5th, and I’m not sure if other teams will part with picks in that range.  

 

As to qb - I don’t think they’ll use a 1st or 2nd on a qb... too many impact guys at other positions (Murray being the exception).  I think part of their attraction the Keemun is he gives them a chance at being competitive, but also gives them a chance to package him with a 3rd for Rosen.  The one thought that’s given me pause on this front is being able to sell to Dan (most importantly) and the fans that they have a qb for the future.  Rosen’s an easier sell than Stidham/Finley/etc because of his draft slot, but then you have the “baggage” of a poor year last year.  

 

@Skinsinparadise That’s a great breakdown and about where I’m at. I said earlier they may want a more polished pass rusher, but there’s also the added excitement/speed a guy like Burns brings, so I’m amending my thoughts there.  

 

It’s interesting that Gruden seemed to stress blocking when talking about receivers, but they like Brown and want to add speed.  I’m glad to hear it, because we’ve all harped on the speed angle.  I wonder if Samuel is a better fit due to versatility, physicality, and separation skills (while still having plus speed).