ShaunAlexanderSkinsYears Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Sua was essentially using this Dr. Collins "post concussion syndrome" diagnosis as a way to not play and still get paid. No different than getting a Dr. to prescribe medical weed for "restless leg syndrome". I'm glad our FO didn't buy it. This guy clearly didn't want to play and his teammates publicly called him out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, ShaunAlexanderSkinsYears said: Sua was essentially using this Dr. Collins "post concussion syndrome" diagnosis as a way to not play and still get paid. No different than getting a Dr. to prescribe medical weed for "restless leg syndrome". I'm glad our FO didn't buy it. This guy clearly didn't want to play and his teammates publicly called him out on it. Exactly. Some are giving him a pass because of the medical report, but his behavioral issues pre-date the 2016 concussion back to his USC days. @Dont Taze Me Bro if your belief is that he's always had this mental disorder then the Redskins did him a favor by keeping him out of football last year. If you want to demonize anyone, take it out on the Broncos who have him on their roster now. If this was about TW then there wouldn't be a debate, I believe the vast majority of this board would be hoping that he gets checked out and that he take his time coming back. I bet that the FO would have handled him much differently. But, it was Sua, a player who never showed that he wanted anything more than the easiest path to fame (see: his twitter). The Skins called him on it. Sua claimed that he "wants to be a Bronco for 10 years," the same antics he demonstrated when he arrived here. Let's see how it pans out, but I had a feeling it'll end ugly there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 57 minutes ago, CTskin said: Fair enough, my bad. I believe he still received the signing bonus, at least it counted against the cap. Regardless, it doesn't change the majority of my point. He has kept it - but the Redskins have made a claim to get it back. Look -I think Sua is suffering and needs / needed help. But I also dont blame the Redskins. They are a business. They have no obligations to Sua other then what they did, but Sua has no obligations to them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, CTskin said: Exactly. Some are giving him a pass because of the medical report, but his behavioral issues pre-date the 2016 concussion back to his USC days. @Dont Taze Me Bro if your belief is that he's always had this mental disorder then the Redskins did him a favor by keeping him out of football last year. If you want to demonize anyone, take it out on the Broncos who have him on their roster now. If this was about TW then there wouldn't be a debate, I believe the vast majority of this board would be hoping that he gets checked out and that he take his time coming back. I bet that the FO would have handled him much differently. But, it was Sua, a player who never showed that he wanted anything more than the easiest path to fame (see: his twitter). The Skins called him on it. Sua claimed that he "wants to be a Bronco for 10 years," the same antics he demonstrated when he arrived here. Let's see how it pans out, but I had a feeling it'll end ugly there as well. And what are you basing your opinion on? Speculation and burgundy tinted glasses... In order to Su'a Cravens to have masterminded this complex deception, he would've needed a very reputable doctor to put his reputation (not to mention medical license) on the line, colluded with Sports Illustrated, etc. You might as well say that he drove his helmet into the player's knee on purpose (which is ridiculous). Oh, and no one from the organization has ever accused him of 'faking' the head injuries. That's the lie you keep telling yourself to justify the front office's actions. None of it changes that our FO dropped the ball in not getting the man help sooner, then not honoring their word to him. There was no point of talking him out of retirement to let that play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, megared said: And what are you basing your opinion on? Speculation and burgundy tinted glasses... In order to Su'a Cravens to have masterminded this complex deception, he would've needed a very reputable doctor to put his reputation (not to mention medical license) on the line, colluded with Sports Illustrated, etc. You might as well say that he drove his helmet into the player's knee on purpose (which is ridiculous). Oh, and no one from the organization has ever accused him of 'faking' the head injuries. That's the lie you keep telling yourself to justify the front office's actions. None of it changes that our FO dropped the ball in not getting the man help sooner, then not honoring their word to him. There was no point of talking him out of retirement to let that play out. You're missing my point. I've been over it too many times to restate it for you. I never once claimed anything about a master plan so quit it with the weak spin job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunAlexanderSkinsYears Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, megared said: And what are you basing your opinion on? Speculation and burgundy tinted glasses... In order to Su'a Cravens to have masterminded this complex deception, he would've needed a very reputable doctor to put his reputation (not to mention medical license) on the line, colluded with Sports Illustrated, etc. You might as well say that he drove his helmet into the player's knee on purpose (which is ridiculous). Oh, and no one from the organization has ever accused him of 'faking' the head injuries. That's the lie you keep telling yourself to justify the front office's actions. None of it changes that our FO dropped the ball in not getting the man help sooner, then not honoring their word to him. There was no point of talking him out of retirement to let that play out. I don't think the deception was very complex. This whole thing went down during the height of the "CTE Revelations", no doctor, especially one at the forefront of the CTE BS movement, is going to question an NFL player claiming concussion symptoms. It would only further this witch doctors agenda so of course he is going to "help" him. Su'a Cravens is mentally weak. The Broncos should hope he gets a real concussion, maybe it will knock some sense into him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, ShaunAlexanderSkinsYears said: I don't think the deception was very complex. This whole thing went down during the height of the "CTE Revelations", no doctor, especially one at the forefront of the CTE BS movement, is going to question an NFL player claiming concussion symptoms. It would only further this witch doctors agenda so of course he is going to "help" him. Su'a Cravens is mentally weak. The Broncos should hope he gets a real concussion, maybe it will knock some sense into him I deal with a lot of people diagnosed with concussions. A diagnosis is subjective, it is based on what the patient tells them and whether their verbalized symptoms match the concussion symptoms. You cant fake a fracture or ligament injury bc we have objective diagnostic tests like x rays and MRI. You either have it or you dont (not withstanding suspected tears etc). A neuro is much more likely to diagnose a concussion than not do it. The neuro has to trust and take what the patient is telling them as true. A guy walks in, says he has prior hx of concussion and has lingering migraines, anxiety and mood problems. A neuro would especially be more likely to diagnose a football with a concussion than not. With that said, I think a lot of these guys play with lingering concussion issues. I think a lot of us in the real world walk around with them as well. Part of life imo. A lot of us have migraines, anxiety and mood problems and a lot of us have played contact sports or been in a car accident. Who knows whether that is related to traumatic injury concussion or Im just a moody guy. My point - Dr. Collins dx should be taken into consideration along with the fact that he cleared 3 tests (which had the benefit of comparing his computer based cognitive tests), cleared by an independent neuro and has a history prior to 2016 concussion dx of being anxious and erratic. Honestly the dude has probably been walking around with a concussion for years now. What magically happened between 2017 and 2018 that now he can magically play and is concussion free? IM guessing they had him on Amitriptyline back in 2016. Seems like its between the dudes ears. If you dont want to take the risks, retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 hours ago, CTskin said: Exactly. Some are giving him a pass because of the medical report, but his behavioral issues pre-date the 2016 concussion back to his USC days. @Dont Taze Me Bro if your belief is that he's always had this mental disorder then the Redskins did him a favor by keeping him out of football last year. If you want to demonize anyone, take it out on the Broncos who have him on their roster now. If this was about TW then there wouldn't be a debate, I believe the vast majority of this board would be hoping that he gets checked out and that he take his time coming back. I bet that the FO would have handled him much differently. But, it was Sua, a player who never showed that he wanted anything more than the easiest path to fame (see: his twitter). The Skins called him on it. Sua claimed that he "wants to be a Bronco for 10 years," the same antics he demonstrated when he arrived here. Let's see how it pans out, but I had a feeling it'll end ugly there as well. I personally think that he may have had some mental health issues prior to the concussion, pure speculation, no way for me to really know that though. I acknowledged that he acted immature, etc. prior to being drafted by the Redskins. Could he be faking all of this? Sure. Do we/I know that for certain? Absolutely not. The only one that knows if they are faking anything is Sua Cravens. And I would like to think that an internationally renowned physician that specializes in sports related concussions would have a pretty good BS detector if he thought a patient was faking, just my opinion though. Again, this is not about keeping him out of football (not that it was a bad thing by any means, especially due to a medical condition), at least not the point I'm trying to make. I really don't know how to say it any differently than I already have multiple times. I would have been perfectly fine with the FO's decision to place him on the reserve/left squad list with no pay, cutting him, trading him, etc. Basing this on what we knew at the time. I am not fine with our FO sitting down with a player, any player, laying out a plan of action, relaying that plan to the national media and then turning around and not honoring their end of the bargain because they received additional information (new diagnosis in this case) and now would have to pay the guy not to play unless they tossed him on the list ASAP. If they had any doubts about his dedication or future behavior, etc., instead of trying to call him on a suspected bluff, they simply should have just told him he's on blast, has 5 days to comply before being placed on the reserve/left squad list without pay for the 2017 season and left it at that. They are his employer. Regardless of what Sua has said or done in the past, his actions, etc., they need to act like a professional organization and handle personnel issues the correct way. It's a business, so put on your burgundy big boy pants and handle your "disgruntled" employee like most businesses do every day, in a professional manner following policies and procedures. Not making false promises to a player and relaying that to the national media just to play some "call his bluff" game. It doesn't take that much common sense or intelligence to realize that by playing this game or trying to call someone on a suspected bluff could generate an entirely different outcome than the desired one. And in this case it did. It makes the organization continue to look like clown shoes. And if they had just done it by the book in the first place, they wouldn't have come out looking bad, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 4 hours ago, megared said: And what are you basing your opinion on? Speculation and burgundy tinted glasses... In order to Su'a Cravens to have masterminded this complex deception, he would've needed a very reputable doctor to put his reputation (not to mention medical license) on the line, colluded with Sports Illustrated, etc. You might as well say that he drove his helmet into the player's knee on purpose (which is ridiculous). Oh, and no one from the organization has ever accused him of 'faking' the head injuries. That's the lie you keep telling yourself to justify the front office's actions. None of it changes that our FO dropped the ball in not getting the man help sooner, then not honoring their word to him. There was no point of talking him out of retirement to let that play out. Mastermind complex deception??? Really? You don't think going to a 'concussion specialist' isn't a calculated move? What, our physicians didn't put there license on the line when they cleared him. Wow, one of the doctors were wrong and I'll put my money that the Redskins medical team had a better 'pulse' of the situation. Believe what you want, but this kid has been pulling this immature act his whole life and will continue to do so, concussions or otherwise. To say the FO dropped the ball sounds like something an enabler would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 If a person had a concussion that caused extended periods of diplopia that needed glasses for correction for an extended period of time, let alone "permanently" as Sua said after his bell got rung - there is NO way that he would have cleared the NFL concussion protocol during the CTE hype train that year. Let alone 20 years ago. I deal with this in my professional life regularly, that is serious stuff. I would be upset at him using it for sympathy and likes, except I don't care anymore. I just hate pseudo science with a passion. Vision Therapy has some evidence based merits, but it is rife with snake oil, more oil then merits imho. Here is a great video that EVERYONE should watch. Totally NFL related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Bonez3 said: Mastermind complex deception??? Really? You don't think going to a 'concussion specialist' isn't a calculated move? What, our physicians didn't put there license on the line when they cleared him. Wow, one of the doctors were wrong and I'll put my money that the Redskins medical team had a better 'pulse' of the situation. Believe what you want, but this kid has been pulling this immature act his whole life and will continue to do so, concussions or otherwise. To say the FO dropped the ball sounds like something an enabler would say. When a guy goes to see Dr. Andrews about their knee, is that calculated as well? The team's doctors are employed by the team. They are under pressure to clear guys to get back on the field. Finally, I'm not sure any of those guys would be considered an expert in diagnosing concussions, at least not to the degree Dr. Collins is. I get it, the guy is immature, he said some dumb **** on social media, rubbed some teammates the wrong way. But to imply that he went to see a specialist with the objective of deceiving the team is not backed by anything other than spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 22 hours ago, TMK9973 said: Not really. I said I have no idea if this was all because of good concussion, for the very reasons your stated. But I also suspect it made it worse Also the Dr that said he had lingering effects never saw him before, so all he can really say is he is showing signs of mental issues. The Dr that cleared him cleared him physically. That's it. He is physically able to play. Feel sorry for him, don't feel sorry for him. That's up to you. I've just said I don't understand the hate. You don't understand the hate for a guy who they had a lot invested in, a player we were really counting on, up and quitting on the team at pretty much the worst possible time? You may believe it's a function of mental illness but many of us do not, we think he is just a punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: You don't understand the hate for a guy who they had a lot invested in, a player we were really counting on, up and quitting on the team at pretty much the worst possible time? You may believe it's a function of mental illness but many of us do not, we think he is just a punk. Yea- i really don't. He played one year. If you think he is just a punk then be happy hes gone. Would you have him rather played and been on the field when he wasnt giving 100%? You think he ows the Redskins anything? Do you think the Redskins owed him anything? Its a business and these are employees. Sometimes employees get fired, sometimes they quit, sometimes its just not a good fit. The guy wasn't a redskins fan - news flash - 99% of the players on the Redskins today are only Redskins fans now. They didn't grow up skins fans, if they went to another team they would be a fan of that new team. Its a job. I am a fan, I didn't root for Alex smith last year, but I will be rooting for him this year. I rooted hard for Kirk Cousins last year, but wont this year. This is how it works. To actually have hatred for a guy because after 1 year of employment with a team you like, then leaving because it didnt work out (For whatever reason) is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: Yea- i really don't. He played one year. If you think he is just a punk then be happy hes gone. Would you have him rather played and been on the field when he wasnt giving 100%. To actually have hatred for a guy because after 1 year of employment with a team you like, then leaving because it didnt work out (For whatever reason) is silly. 5 you're not really reading these posts...you can't be. it's not simply because he left after one year. It's because of when he left, putting the team in a difficult spot to recover...he had to have known he'd be doing so, and apparently didn't care. Its because of how he left--text messaging teammates instead of face-to-face and then removing himself immediately. It's because of why he left, which if you believe his latest version was due to getting upset that the team got pissed off that he missed a workout without contacting anyone, and he felt that his misunderstanding of whether or not he was supposed to attend was a good excuse...like it's not his responsibility to know, period. Is any of that registering or are you still going with people are hating the guy simply because he left after one year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: you're not really reading these posts...you can't be. it's not simply because he left after one year. It's because of when he left, putting the team in a difficult spot to recover...he had to have known he'd be doing so, and apparently didn't care. Its because of how he left--text messaging teammates instead of face-to-face and then removing himself immediately. It's because of why he left, which if you believe his latest version was due to getting upset that the team got pissed off that he missed a workout without contacting anyone, and he felt that his misunderstanding of whether or not he was supposed to attend was a good excuse...like it's not his responsibility to know, period. Is any of that registering or are you still going with people are hating the guy simply because he left after one year? No - Im reading it. I read where he has having major issues and told his teamates his motivation wasnt there and he didnt feel right well before final cuts. (One while he was actually miked up). I read where 1 Dr told him he had linger effects and another Dr told him he should be taking meds for his mental issues. Both Dr's recommended by the team drs. I read where the team told him in private and publicly that they would give him 30 days to figure out if he was gonna play, but then a week or so later put him on the inactive list - despite what they told him. I read it all. Did you? Or did you just decide a while ago that he was a screw up and anything that says it wasnt 100% his fault was ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutPryorNow Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 55 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: I read where the team told him in private and publicly that they would give him 30 days to figure out if he was gonna play, but then a week or so later put him on the inactive list - despite what they told him. To your point - do you remember what happened during that time when the Redskins decided, wisely to go ahead and put him on the inactive list? He was seen partying at a USC game, but was no where to be found when the Redskins played later on in LA that same weekend. And how about when he flippantly stated that he was thinking about rejoining the team for the season, but then insinuated that maybe or maybe not. Go do your research and then keep on making 1+1 = 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, CutPryorNow said: To your point - do you remember what happened during that time when the Redskins decided, wisely to go ahead and put him on the inactive list? He was seen partying at a USC game, but was no where to be found when the Redskins played later on in LA that same weekend. And how about when he flippantly stated that he was thinking about rejoining the team for the season, but then insinuated that maybe or maybe not. Go do your research and then keep on making 1+1 = 3 So hanging out on the sidelines with his ex college team = "Seen Partying"?? Thats a new one. And according to you - Skins say "Take 30 days and decide if you want to return or not" Then during that 30 days he said "Im trying to decide if I am going to return or not" and thats a issue? BTW -Im not saying Sua Cravens is blameless. Im simply stating that I think the kid has some issues beyond just being spoiled and while neither the Redskins nor Su'a handled this as best as it could have been, I also dont think either is worse then the other. In the end -Su'a had some issues - Redskins didnt want to deal with it, they parted ways.... It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 If we thought that our employers would write us a large check, I'm pretty sure that we could learn to answer any questions leading to the diagnosis we desired. This is the tricky wicket that the NFL is entering in to. Without biological evidence, Post concussion syndrome can be claimed (and thus diagnosed) by anyone wanting to learn a few of the "right" answers. Sua's case will probably be treaded very lightly upon by the NFL, probably setting a precedent. It will be interesting to see how it is handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, TMK9973 said: So hanging out on the sidelines with his ex college team = "Seen Partying"?? Thats a new one. And according to you - Skins say "Take 30 days and decide if you want to return or not" Then during that 30 days he said "Im trying to decide if I am going to return or not" and thats a issue? BTW -Im not saying Sua Cravens is blameless. Im simply stating that I think the kid has some issues beyond just being spoiled and while neither the Redskins nor Su'a handled this as best as it could have been, I also dont think either is worse then the other. In the end -Su'a had some issues - Redskins didnt want to deal with it, they parted ways.... It happens. Again if you want to share your opinion on Cravens and the reasons for his behavior that is fine, it's what a message board is all about. But for you to totally dismiss the posts that have explained at length why we feel this way as if those post make no sense, well you should be prepared for a response. For you not to understand why fans feel upset at a guy who the team was really counting on who bailed at the worst possible time is really hard for many of us to understand. It doesn't "happen". I don't ever remember a player at this point in their career doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Confirmed he wont play in the preseason game. Didnt care enough to read past the headline and find out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, UKskins said: Confirmed he wont play in the preseason game. Didnt care enough to read past the headline and find out why. He's got homesickness of the knees. The absolutely totally real kind, not like that headcase Josh Doctson. Honestly, I wish we had cut that slacker Josh and used his roster spot for a legit headcase in Sua. In fact, the Redskins should just be the NFL's mental infirmary team. Anyone feeling bored or tired of the game and not sure whether to retire? We should sign them and give them their second, third, fourth, and fifth chances. We can't just let their feelings be hurt when teams move on. We need to give them teddy bears and lollipops, and tell them they're loved and wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 ^”that slacker josh”? Lol. Guess you didn’t bother to watch his 6 TDs last year, or his catch against the Seahawks that lead us to the game winning TD (or was it FG). Yeah. Signs of a slacker there ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: ^”that slacker josh”? Lol. Guess you didn’t bother to watch his 6 TDs last year, or his catch against the Seahawks that lead us to the game winning TD (or was it FG). Yeah. Signs of a slacker there ?? I.... I don't know how to be any more sarcastic to make my point come across better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 @NickyJ I want you to know that homesickness of the knees wasn't just the best post of the last few years, but it has become my life motto back when you first posted it. Dare I say... it deserves to be in Paloffs are now territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 20 hours ago, megared said: When a guy goes to see Dr. Andrews about their knee, is that calculated as well? The team's doctors are employed by the team. They are under pressure to clear guys to get back on the field. Finally, I'm not sure any of those guys would be considered an expert in diagnosing concussions, at least not to the degree Dr. Collins is. I get it, the guy is immature, he said some dumb **** on social media, rubbed some teammates the wrong way. But to imply that he went to see a specialist with the objective of deceiving the team is not backed by anything other than spite. Hardly as much discrepancy in diagnosis when joint/orthopedic injuries are involved, apples and oranges. Usually there's a common ground of concern but a variance to the injury. This was more black and white, concussion and no concussion. Not really 'oh look, Dr. Andrews found a torn ACL, you guys were wrong'. Not even close I have no spite to Cravens, the team hasn't been good in too long to even care. He's just a little beach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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