Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[dballer]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

non starter special teamers need to be able to play special teams.  He doesn't

 

this is very true...our WR group is just pitiful if Richardson and Quinn stay banged up. Reed with another possible concussion. I mean I am huge on Harmon, by all accounts Mclaurin has looked good, Sims and Davis have both flashed...Its a tough situation. I just don't see Docston not making the 53. 

[Jericho]

24 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

I get what you're saying...and agree I don't think we should just cut him. We aren't exactly overloaded at the position. I have no problem having Doctson as a back up. But I do think it's time to stop looking at him as a #1 WR, or a starter in general. I would rather see what the younger guys can do this year. But, if the 3-4 WRs that I feel like could be better than him are all hurt, well yeh you could do worse than Doctson, like uh Brian Quick. I think you need at least one guy on your team that has played significant snaps in his career.  

 

I think the problem is that a lot of people look at Docston and say he's neither a # 1 receiver or worth a first round pick. And unless he takes a huge leap forward in Year 4, all of those people are right. But some of these people act like the only options for Doctson are to be the # 1 WR or be cut. And there's a huge middle ground in between. This team usually keeps 6 receivers, and he can easily be one of those six. And while many don't want Doctson to be the #1, unless someone else actually is better than him, then he's your de facto #1. I'd love for someone else to step up and outplay Doctson. It just hasn't happened yet. And until it does, Doctson might be an unsexy option at WR. But he's still the best you got.

 

A great comparison for Doctson might be Phillip Dorsett. Also a first round pick, Dorsett underwhelmed with the Colts. His numbers his first two years in Indy aren't that different from Doctson, and that's playing with Andrew Luck. And he got traded to New England. For Jacoby Brissett. Who himself was a former third round pick coming off a decent rookie year. So not exactly a bag of balls type trade. And Dorsett still hasn't done that much with New England, but he's consistently been on their roster being a depth guy. That's probably what Doctson is. Another Dorsett. But those players have uses. Which I think we both agree on.

 

I don't fully endorse the "try anyone" mentality that some here have. Eventually, if the season is lost, maybe you got that route. But if you play inferior WRs, it hurts everyone's development, including the QBs. Potential isn't actual production. And outside of Richardson, no one on this team has produced anything in the NFL. It would be one thing if this team had other options. But it doesn't. And Richardson has been injured most of his career. So I'd really rather not see Haskins throwing to no one. Again, maybe someone steps up and proves themselves. Maybe two people do it. Maybe three. But right now, the number is still zero. and it seems everyone is just hoping and praying a 6th round rookie or a 7th round second year guy takes huge leaps forward. There needs to be another option than to just hope and pray.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

I think we would all like Doctson more if he got more targets.

 

The part that I don't like is that his 50 50 balls, seem more like 40 60.   Ok maybe 30 70. He could stand to take a page from Harmon's book and push off, fight defenders. He tries to make his circus catches but the defender is ALL OVER HIM.  Hand fighting subtle push offs by WRs have been going uncalled since Michael Irvin glorified it.   It's just not a part of who he is. I love seeing Harmon battling defenders as he runs his routes.  I think things like that can be subtle difference makers on what are likely the biggest plays an offense achieves on any given Sunday.  Especially on 3rd and long, and a punt is inevitable. Swat that punk ass annoying fly DB away.

 

When a WR does it all game long, the officials accept it as normal.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RandyHolt

[RandyHolt]

Look at the passion

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by RandyHolt

[justice98]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

I think the problem is that a lot of people look at Docston and say he's neither a # 1 receiver or worth a first round pick. And unless he takes a huge leap forward in Year 4, all of those people are right. But some of these people act like the only options for Doctson are to be the # 1 WR or be cut. And there's a huge middle ground in between. This team usually keeps 6 receivers, and he can easily be one of those six. And while many don't want Doctson to be the #1, unless someone else actually is better than him, then he's your de facto #1. I'd love for someone else to step up and outplay Doctson. It just hasn't happened yet. And until it does, Doctson might be an unsexy option at WR. But he's still the best you got.

 

A great comparison for Doctson might be Phillip Dorsett. Also a first round pick, Dorsett underwhelmed with the Colts. His numbers his first two years in Indy aren't that different from Doctson, and that's playing with Andrew Luck. And he got traded to New England. For Jacoby Brissett. Who himself was a former third round pick coming off a decent rookie year. So not exactly a bag of balls type trade. And Dorsett still hasn't done that much with New England, but he's consistently been on their roster being a depth guy. That's probably what Doctson is. Another Dorsett. But those players have uses. Which I think we both agree on.

 

I don't fully endorse the "try anyone" mentality that some here have. Eventually, if the season is lost, maybe you got that route. But if you play inferior WRs, it hurts everyone's development, including the QBs. Potential isn't actual production. And outside of Richardson, no one on this team has produced anything in the NFL. It would be one thing if this team had other options. But it doesn't. And Richardson has been injured most of his career. So I'd really rather not see Haskins throwing to no one. Again, maybe someone steps up and proves themselves. Maybe two people do it. Maybe three. But right now, the number is still zero. and it seems everyone is just hoping and praying a 6th round rookie or a 7th round second year guy takes huge leaps forward. There needs to be another option than to just hope and pray.

 

 

 

I think people basically feel like we've seen Doctson's ceiling, which seems readily attainable by any competent WR.  And the things that he's supposed to excel at, guys like Sims, Harmon, and Davis seem to have similar skill sets. 

 

Merely being as good as him doesnt seem that far off, and being better than him is certainly on the table, given they get the snaps.  I mean, One of those guys cant catch 40 balls for 500 yards?  It's not like you're going with potential over a wily, seasoned vet that a rookie QB could always count on to be where they're supposed to be and catch what's thrown to them.

 

So the reason I would be willing to go with potential is the "production" from the others is so minimal, as to be negligible.  The bar Doctson set for these guys to clear is so low. 

 

And I'm only picking on Doctson because of the money we sunk into Richardson.  But neither one of 'em is really starting material.

Edited August 23, 2019 by justice98

[RandyHolt]

Stolen from Twitter:

 

Redskins' projected Week 1 pass-catchers have to be worst in NFL: * Paul Richardson (Yet to play in preseason, leg) * Trey Quinn (2018 7th-rounder) * Terry McLaurin (2019 3rd-rounder) * Jordan Reed (Q, concussion) * Vernon Davis (35 years old) * QB likely Case Keenum

[justice98]

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Stolen from Twitter:

 

Redskins' projected Week 1 pass-catchers have to be worst in NFL: * Paul Richardson (Yet to play in preseason, leg) * Trey Quinn (2018 7th-rounder) * Terry McLaurin (2019 3rd-rounder) * Jordan Reed (Q, concussion) * Vernon Davis (35 years old) * QB likely Case Keenum

 

I hate that that person's characterization of them isnt based on ability, like at all.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

 

I hate that that person's characterization of them isnt based on ability, like at all.

I mean it kinda is.

 

Richardson is an okay deep threat but he's like a #3 WR on a good team. Quinn is talented but unproven. McLaurin has done nothing to date in the NFL.

 

We definitely have the worst set of pass catchers in the league.

[RandyHolt]

It is interesting that he didn't include Doctson. Which I hadn't even noticed, until now. Says a lot. sadly.

 

Meanwhile a different fantasy guy I follow said Doctson is about the only player on our roster to target as his super cheap price offers potential value, which obviously would inch upward if Reed misses time.

 

He didn't even touch on both Quinn and McLaurin have had injuries as well, albeit minor ones. Hopefully.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RandyHolt

[Renegade7]

I dont care what your ability is if you arent playing.  When you arent playing your ability is zero. Period.

[justice98]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean it kinda is.

 

Richardson is an okay deep threat but he's like a #3 WR on a good team. Quinn is talented but unproven. McLaurin has done nothing to date in the NFL.

 

We definitely have the worst set of pass catchers in the league.

 

They didnt make any of those arguments though.

 

And unproven is a blank slate really.  It isnt synonymous with "bad".  It could go either way.  It's an "incomplete". 

 

I would stack our WRs and TEs, top to bottom, up with: Baltimore, Tennesee, Denver, Carolina, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Miami, and Seattle. 

 

And some teams have 1 top guy of consequence and a bunch of unprovens or comparable guys, like New Orleans, Arizona, Green Bay, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati (with Green on the shelf), and New England.

Edited August 23, 2019 by justice98

[justice98]

38 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I dont care what your ability is if you arent playing.  When you arent playing your ability is zero. Period.

 

It's like saying we have one of the worst QB situations in the league because the backup Haskins is an unproven rookie.

 

You project what guys can do based on what you've observed. If we think Haskins might be decent, we give him benefit of the doubt of optimism.  Why not do the same for the WRs?

[carex]

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean it kinda is.

 

Richardson is an okay deep threat but he's like a #3 WR on a good team. Quinn is talented but unproven. McLaurin has done nothing to date in the NFL.

 

We definitely have the worst set of pass catchers in the league.

 

if you're just measuring on "nothing to date" then you're not measuring on ability

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

It's like saying we have one of the worst QB situations in the league because the backup Haskins is an unproven rookie.

 

You project what guys can do based on what you've observed. If we think Haskins might be decent, we give him benefit of the doubt of optimism.  Why not do the same for the WRs?

 

No, Haskins is available to play, players that are injured arent, that's not the same thing, we arent talking about the same thing.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

if you're just measuring on "nothing to date" then you're not measuring on ability

 

I mean a sum of zero is immeasurable. How many times has a rookie excited people only to do nothing? Until it's shown on the field, their ability isn't worth anything. 

 

We have one of the worst pass catching groups in the NFL right now. McLaurin/Harmon breaking out would help. Richardson being healthy* would help. Doctson(if he makes the squad) having a career year would help. But preseason evaluations are based on a "what have you done" basis. 

 

We are extremely injury prone (not just at WR, but on the whole roster, but I'm sure most of you are tired of me pointing that out over and over again :ols:), and our rookies have done nothing at the NFL level yet.

 

Taylor Jacobs was an absolute animal in camp/preseason. Other guys have done zero in camp/preseason and been monsters in the regular season/playoffs. But you can't go by that stuff. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

52 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I hate that that person's characterization of them isnt based on ability, like at all.

 

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean it kinda is.

 

Richardson is an okay deep threat but he's like a #3 WR on a good team. Quinn is talented but unproven. McLaurin has done nothing to date in the NFL.

 

We definitely have the worst set of pass catchers in the league.

 

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I dont care what your ability is if you arent playing.  When you arent playing your ability is zero. Period.

 

5 minutes ago, carex said:

 

if you're just measuring on "nothing to date" then you're not measuring on ability

 

 

Preseason rankings don't matter.

When the season starts and we find out exactly what these guys have to offer right now this very season, noone will be talking about how they were projected in the preseason.

[justice98]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

No, Haskins is available to play, players that are injured arent, that's not the same thing, we arent talking about the same thing.

 

But would you agree that availability in the preseason and availability in the regular season arent the same thing either?  When Richardson, Quinn, and Cam Sims are sitting in the regular season due to injury, then their availability will mean something.  Right now  it doesnt mean anything.

[jbird2]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Stolen from Twitter:

 

Redskins' projected Week 1 pass-catchers have to be worst in NFL: * Paul Richardson (Yet to play in preseason, leg) * Trey Quinn (2018 7th-rounder) * Terry McLaurin (2019 3rd-rounder) * Jordan Reed (Q, concussion) * Vernon Davis (35 years old) * QB likely Case Keenum

 That line-up scares me.

A line-up of Sims, and Harmon on the outside with McLaurin in the slot, and Davis/Sprinkle/Donaldson @ TE is going to be fun to watch. 

 

Even Keenum might be able to make some magic, with Guice and AP forcing teams to respect the running game. 

 

Now once Haskins gets in, you are looking at the makings of a perennial top 5 offense. 

 

This year is going to be spectacular, and somebody better spruce up the bandwagon, cause you gonna see fans coming out of the woodwork!

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, jbird said:

 That line-up scares me.

A line-up of Sims, and Harmon on the outside with McLaurin in the slot, and Davis/Sprinkle/Donaldson @ TE is going to be fun to watch. 

 

Even Keenum might be able to make some magic, with Guice and AP forcing teams to respect the running game. 

 

Now once Haskins gets in, you are looking at the makings of a perennial top 5 offense. 

 

This year is going to be spectacular, and somebody better spruce up the bandwagon, cause you gonna see fans coming out of the woodwork!

 

 

There is a ton of potential in our ball carriers and pass catchers. That's 100% truth.

 

But I notice there was a part of the offense that is conspicuously absent from your post

[justice98]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We have one of the worst pass catching groups in the NFL right now.

 

I think Reed and Vernon Davis single handedly make that not the case.  However lame people think our WR corps is, our TEs have to be among the best at pass catching, which kinda moves the whole pass catching apparatus to the middle, say the 15-20 area.  You could even include CT  catching balls out of the backfield if you wanted.

 

Before last night, were there two better pass catching TEs on one team than those two?  If Reed is concussed into oblivion, obviously that changes things.

Edited August 23, 2019 by justice98

[KDawg]

Just now, justice98 said:

 

 

Before last night, were there two better pass catching TEs on one team than those two?  If Reed is concussed into oblivion, obviously that changes things.

 

To be fair, I did say right now

 

But I think you always need to take Reed's injury history into account in these conversations as well.

Edited August 23, 2019 by KDawg

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

But would you agree that availability in the preseason and availability in the regular season arent the same thing either?  When Richardson, Quinn, and Cam Sims are sitting in the regular season due to injury, then their availability will mean something.  Right now  it doesnt mean anything.

We had this problem last year regular season with them, it really does look like we are running into it again with at least Richardson and Quinn.  Theres enough young guys I'd rather focusing in developing then holding out hope for guys that cant stay healthy but arent that great to begin with.  It's not like were waiting for Julio Jones to come back in the field

Edited August 23, 2019 by Renegade7

[RandyHolt]

Say Reed is out to start.

Who are our TEs? I thought Sprinkle was on the bubble but probably not as much now. Plus, he looked like Vernon Davis for a moment last night, nice RAC with DBs in hot pursuit. 

 

Flanagan, Holtz, and Parham are candidates.  Carrying an extra TE may cost a WR a spot.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RandyHolt

[Malapropismic Depository]

Davis has had 3 big preseason games.

Including both as a receiver and ST.

Each of the first 2 games he had a long TD catch.

This game, he was part of TWO fumble recoveries on muffed punts.

Jay loves those ST players, so that's gotta help Davis.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Look at the passion

 

 

That spike is about as impressive as his career has been

Honestly If they cut him tomorrow i would not be upset

 

 

No one has really stepped up at WR so far, its kind of scary. When Robert Davis has out shined your entire squad thats a very bad thing. Has any team ever gone to a 3 tighend spread on passing downs because honestly , Reed , Davis & Sprinkle are the best hands on the field.

 

 

  At what point can we also say Paul Richardson was reach to be our #1 or even #2 receiver ? What are we paying him ?

Edited August 23, 2019 by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT